316 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...
And doing nothing can provide another thousand years of the status quo that mages clearly don't want if they are willing to rise up and break free from the Chantry and the templars.

And acting on emotional impulses will make the situation worse. 

Freedom is a noble idea. Sadly the real world needs more than noble ideas for people to cause changes. 

[LobselVith8]

Ryzaki wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
And doing nothing can provide another thousand years of the status quo that mages clearly don't want if they are willing to rise up and break free from the Chantry and the templars.

And acting on emotional impulses will make the situation worse. 

Freedom is a noble idea. Sadly the real world needs more than noble ideas for people to cause changes. 

People want freedom. It's a universal standard that's echoed throughout our history time and again, and even by the standards of history in Thedas with Andraste and Shartan leading their revolutionaries against the Imperium. Mages emancipating themselves from the Chantry and the templars is no different.

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...
People want freedom. It's a universal standard that's echoed throughout our history time and again, and even by the standards of history in Thedas with Andraste and Shartan leading their revolutionaries against the Imperium. Mages emancipating themselves from the Chantry and the templars is no different.

You say this as if it should come as a surprise to me.  Wanting freedom and being able to obtain true freedom are two very different things. 

Regardless I have no desire to engage in another templar/mage debate. My viewpoint is just as valid as yours is all I'll say. 

[LobselVith8]

Ryzaki wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
People want freedom. It's a universal standard that's echoed throughout our history time and again, and even by the standards of history in Thedas with Andraste and Shartan leading their revolutionaries against the Imperium. Mages emancipating themselves from the Chantry and the templars is no different.

You say this as if it should come as a surprise to me.  Wanting freedom and being able to obtain true freedom are two very different things. 

Regardless I have no desire to engage in another templar/mage debate. My viewpoint is just as valid as yours is all I'll say. 

The Circles of Magi obtained freedom, as Varric addressed that the Chantry lost control of the Circles. Whether the mages can maintain it or not remains to be seen.

Also, I don't see it as a mage v. templar debate. I don't see why mages wouldn't want freedom when it's human for people to strive for independence when they live in a dictatorship (which is what dev Michael Hamilton called the Chantry controlled Circles).

[darkgriever26]

I just finished reading all the post here [it was very tiring to think I haven't slept yet and I'm at least half a day awake]

anyway I was so excited to know that you can get Anders to side with the templars so I had to try it in a Rivalmance mage playthrough. Then just when I'm about to finish the game it doesn't work! Made me so frustrated that I had to use the debug console just to see it.

But now that I'm updated in this current issue, I'll fnish this debugged game and not save it yet so that when the patch arrives I'll be able to play it.

It was hard for me to be rivals with any of my companions [guess it's not my nature to be mean LOL] so Anders is the first companion that I made a rival. And I must say, I was intrigued that he can side with the templars in his current state. Well I guess it makes sense if Anders is alive to face all his crimes either way he dies in the end [or not if he escapes once again haha! It's up to you how you perceive it]

So now back to playing...I'll wait for more patches before I go back to playing again [it made me so frustrated when Anders still refused to side with the templars...I'm already a bit grumpy because of the lack of sleep then all of a sudden it is bugged. DAMN!]

Modifié par darkgriever26, 03 mai 2011 - 05:26 .

[OldMan91]

It's a universal standard that's echoed throughout our history time and again, and even by the standards of history in Thedas with Andraste and Shartan leading their revolutionaries against the Imperium.

I don't see why mages wouldn't want freedom when it's human for people to strive for independence when they live in a dictatorship

While I agree that freedom is great, remember that it's not a universal standard in our history. There have been plenty of collectivist societies which have preferred social harmony rather than liberty. An in-game example? The Qunari.

[Izaelles]

In patch 1.03, it is written that ''In "The Last Straw," Anders now responds much differently if he is a rival.''

I've tried it with my rivalmance game, siding with templar and did'nt see much of a difference.

Did anyone else have tried it and seen different responds from Anders?

[ipgd]

Izaelles wrote...

In patch 1.03, it is written that ''In "The Last Straw," Anders now responds much differently if he is a rival.''

I've tried it with my rivalmance game, siding with templar and did'nt see much of a difference.

Did anyone else have tried it and seen different responds from Anders?

You need a save from before the Justice quest.

[Izaelles]

Thanks I will try that right now!

[BurstAngel75]

Freedom is the Ideal as long as your responisble for it.
The problem is that no one believes that the mages as a whole are responisble enough to handle freedom. The example we get for free mages is the Tevinter Empire.

[Silfren]

BurstAngel75 wrote...

Freedom is the Ideal as long as your responisble for it.
The problem is that no one believes that the mages as a whole are responisble enough to handle freedom. The example we get for free mages is the Tevinter Empire.

We haven't seen any of these examples firsthand, including Tevinter.  But there are in-game examples of societies with free mages beyond Tevinter.  The Dalish, and the Rivaini peoples, and possibly the Chasind, though I'm not sure on that last one.  The people of Rivain, especially, given that the seers among them even willingly give themselves over to possession.

None of the in-game lore suggests that the Dalish or the Rivaini are overrun with abominations or evil blood mages, either.  If it were true, I think we'd have at least gotten a mention.  But there's nothing whatsoever, and since abominations are supposed to be such a dire threat, I think it safely stands to reason that those societies are not overly threatened by having free mages in their midst.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

When they came for the elves I said nothing, because I was not an elf.

The question at the end isn't even about liberty and danger or anything like that. It's the question of whether you're more inclined to trust the status quo or take a chance on something you can't predict. In my mind, the status quo has shown no desire to change, but a situation in flux can more easily be... managed. Actually, that's what makes me laugh all the more... no matter which you prefer, flux is what you get. Angry or not, what is done is done. And that makes me smile like a madman.

So if you're feeling low,
stuck in some bardo,
I, even I know the solution:
Love, music, wine, and revolution.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 13 juin 2011 - 06:48 .

[Kahlandra]

I have been reading this thread with great interest, when I first read that you could get Anders to side with the templars I thought it would be incredibly OOC but actually having thought about it I don’t think it is.

In my first play-through I was pro-mage and sympathetic to his cause so that encouraged him in his crusade against the templars and helped him convince himself that he was doing the right thing. However he does have plenty of self-doubt and when he killed/almost killed the mage girl he even admitted that he thought he had become an example of why the templars are necessary. That coupled with the fact it was only Justice who convinced him that all mages should be free in the first place and then their joining led him to go on a killing spree shows that there was plenty of inner turmoil going on.

So although it would be OOC for my friended/romanced Anders to go back on his principles and join the templars it seems plausible that an Anders who had been pushed the other way by Hawke could have been convinced. If the bomb just confirms everything Hawke has said and what he himself had feared he would feel much worse about it without the courage of his convictions. Maybe he would be so lost that he would just follow Hawke’s suggestion that doing this would help make up for what he’d done, after all Hawke is the only thing he has left.

Anyway to conclude my essay . . . congratulations to the writers for creating such a thought provoking (and awesome) character.

[Areksu]

Deleted post to avoid spoilers.

Modifié par Areksu, 17 juin 2011 - 10:14 .

[Ghidorah14]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

It is in the final game. If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry stage and get him to admit he's been wrong the whole time.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but no, this isnt right.

I have tried doing exactly that on the console version, and Anders wouldnt budge.

is it a PC only thing then?

[Silentblaze]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

It is in the final game. If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry stage and get him to admit he's been wrong the whole time.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but no, this isnt right.

I have tried doing exactly that on the console version, and Anders wouldnt budge.

is it a PC only thing then?

It's in there. You just gotta get Anders to hear you out that merging with Justice was incorrect on the 1st Questioning Beliefs.  The 2nd one you get him to admit there is still time to undo what he does.

Modifié par Silentblaze, 16 octobre 2011 - 03:09 .

[Ghidorah14]

Silentblaze wrote...

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

It is in the final game. If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry stage and get him to admit he's been wrong the whole time.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but no, this isnt right.

I have tried doing exactly that on the console version, and Anders wouldnt budge.

is it a PC only thing then?

It's in there. You just gotta get Anders to hear you out that merging with Justice was incorrect on the 1st Questioning Beliefs.  The 2nd one you get him to admit there is still time to undo what he does.

Really?

I dont believe I tried those exact choices of dialogue. I'll give it a go then.