DeaHamlet wrote...
Ahmmm not exactly. You can make Fenris fight for mages as a friend as well.
And when you convince Merrill to give up blood magic, you're not convincing her to start killing innocent mages.
It's so not the same thing, not by a long shot.
SurelyForth wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
Not all of the mages were innocent, but the citizens of Kirkwall certainly were. They were the innocents I was talking about... and you can tell, because there are a lot of extra corpses on the way to the Gallows that aren't templars or mages. Siding with the templars wouldn't be about furthering their goal (though there is the option of saving some mages even though the rite has been invoked, as Cullen mentions), but about ending the conflict with the fewest lost lives possible.
Side with the templars: innocent people dead
Don't side with the templars, and let the conflict keep going on longer: many more innocent people dead
It's a numbers game.
So send the templars through Kirkwall to defend them from the abominations that are popping up in the street. The Gallows is a prison, as long as the mages are kept inside of the Gallows they are not a threat to the citizens of Kirkwall.
Orsino was willing to lay down his objections and compromise with Meredith. He begs her to not kill the Circle mages and tells her that he will help her with her search himself. Despite what he does later, he was trying to end the conflict as peacefully as possible and was shot down by Meredith.
SurelyForth wrote...
So send the templars through Kirkwall to defend them from the abominations that are popping up in the street. The Gallows is a prison, as long as the mages are kept inside of the Gallows they are not a threat to the citizens of Kirkwall.
Orsino was willing to lay down his objections and compromise with Meredith. He begs her to not kill the Circle mages and tells her that he will help her with her search himself. Despite what he does later, he was trying to end the conflict as peacefully as possible and was shot down by Meredith.
hoorayforicecream wrote...
DeaHamlet wrote...
Ahmmm not exactly. You can make Fenris fight for mages as a friend as well.
And when you convince Merrill to give up blood magic, you're not convincing her to start killing innocent mages.
It's so not the same thing, not by a long shot.
All of the mages that Hawke's group kills are either attacking Hawke or turned into abominations, then attacking Hawke. They aren't exactly innocent.
hoorayforicecream wrote...
SurelyForth wrote...
So send the templars through Kirkwall to defend them from the abominations that are popping up in the street. The Gallows is a prison, as long as the mages are kept inside of the Gallows they are not a threat to the citizens of Kirkwall.
Orsino was willing to lay down his objections and compromise with Meredith. He begs her to not kill the Circle mages and tells her that he will help her with her search himself. Despite what he does later, he was trying to end the conflict as peacefully as possible and was shot down by Meredith.
And if Hawke had some sort of control over Meredith, this is probably what would have happened. But we're not discussing "What if Hawke was the Knight-Commander". Meredith had already gone off the deep end. She was already starting on her rampage. The only thing Hawke could do at that point was try to keep casualties to a minimum, which is exactly what Hawke says they are doing. That's Hawke's goal when siding with the templars, not killing innocent mages. Keeping casualties to a minimum is something a repentant Anders would agree to.
hoorayforicecream wrote...
SurelyForth wrote...
So send the templars through Kirkwall to defend them from the abominations that are popping up in the street. The Gallows is a prison, as long as the mages are kept inside of the Gallows they are not a threat to the citizens of Kirkwall.
Orsino was willing to lay down his objections and compromise with Meredith. He begs her to not kill the Circle mages and tells her that he will help her with her search himself. Despite what he does later, he was trying to end the conflict as peacefully as possible and was shot down by Meredith.
And if Hawke had some sort of control over Meredith, this is probably what would have happened. But we're not discussing "What if Hawke was the Knight-Commander". Meredith had already gone off the deep end. She was already starting on her rampage. The only thing Hawke could do at that point was try to keep casualties to a minimum, which is exactly what Hawke says they are doing. That's Hawke's goal when siding with the templars, not killing innocent mages. Keeping casualties to a minimum is something a repentant Anders would agree to.
Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 25 mars 2011 - 05:45 .
Anarya wrote...
hoorayforicecream wrote...
SurelyForth wrote...
So send the templars through Kirkwall to defend them from the abominations that are popping up in the street. The Gallows is a prison, as long as the mages are kept inside of the Gallows they are not a threat to the citizens of Kirkwall.
Orsino was willing to lay down his objections and compromise with Meredith. He begs her to not kill the Circle mages and tells her that he will help her with her search himself. Despite what he does later, he was trying to end the conflict as peacefully as possible and was shot down by Meredith.
And if Hawke had some sort of control over Meredith, this is probably what would have happened. But we're not discussing "What if Hawke was the Knight-Commander". Meredith had already gone off the deep end. She was already starting on her rampage. The only thing Hawke could do at that point was try to keep casualties to a minimum, which is exactly what Hawke says they are doing. That's Hawke's goal when siding with the templars, not killing innocent mages. Keeping casualties to a minimum is something a repentant Anders would agree to.
I agree that what Hawke SAYS makes sense. S/he claims to be restoring order and minimizing casualties. But what you have to DO is help the templars with the Right of Annulment against essentially uninvolved parties, and you have the help of the one at fault to do it. It's complete madness.
hoorayforicecream wrote...
SurelyForth wrote...
So send the templars through Kirkwall to defend them from the abominations that are popping up in the street. The Gallows is a prison, as long as the mages are kept inside of the Gallows they are not a threat to the citizens of Kirkwall.
Orsino was willing to lay down his objections and compromise with Meredith. He begs her to not kill the Circle mages and tells her that he will help her with her search himself. Despite what he does later, he was trying to end the conflict as peacefully as possible and was shot down by Meredith.
And if Hawke had some sort of control over Meredith, this is probably what would have happened. But we're not discussing "What if Hawke was the Knight-Commander". Meredith had already gone off the deep end. She was already starting on her rampage. The only thing Hawke could do at that point was try to keep casualties to a minimum, which is exactly what Hawke says they are doing. That's Hawke's goal when siding with the templars, not killing innocent mages. Keeping casualties to a minimum is something a repentant Anders would agree to.
Anarya wrote...
It's really not the same thing as rivalry with Fenris or Merrill. Neither of them have convictions that are consuming them mind body and soul, like Anders. It makes no sense for Anders to side with the templars. Fenris and Merrill value Hawke above whatever they feel about mages vs. templars, if you max out their bar on either end. Anders is incapable of valuing anything over his cause.
Modifié par Pseudocognition, 25 mars 2011 - 06:29 .
marquiseondore wrote...
Gee, well another thing the guide book left out from the Romance/Character section. <_< Thinking that Anders leaves if you side with the Templars has influenced my last 4 playthroughs.
I think you would just have to see it as a reverse mania owing to Justice/ Vengeance's influence. The Anders we knew wouldn't blow up a Chantry with innocent people in it, nor would he annul a Circle. Dude is a mess of ricocheting complexes.SurelyForth wrote...
Hawke's motivess are one thing, and I can concede that point that siding with the mages can be about minimizing casualties (although I think that a Hawke who recognizes how insane Meredith is should never aid her). However, the bolded point is where I disagree. He might be repentent, but he's earning his atonement through the slaying of innocent mages and I cannot draw a line from any version of Anders that I have seen to that without resorting to scribbly, angry lines at the point where Hawke convinces him to stay and fight.
Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...
It is in the final game. If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry stage and get him to admit he's been wrong the whole time.
Hellosanta wrote...
I did get him to come with me to side with templars ..... but I failed in romance, oh shoot.
Camenae wrote...
Yes Hellosanta or anyone else who knows, please share. and Hellosanta you said you did it even without romancing Anders if I read your post correctly? Because at this point it's the only thing I can think of that I didn't do
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