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[Camenae]

I did not romance Anders for this rivalry playthrough, and the last play through when I did romance him, I did the friendship path. Am I screwed because of this or is this bugged? Gah I'm really curious about this ending. I will restart this game from the act 2 romance triggers if that's what it takes!

[Shandyr]

marquiseondore wrote...

I created save points for all my conversations with Anders, so I'll test it out.

Haha that made me laugh. I thought I was the only crazy one who does that, so I can listen to Anders again... and again... and again...

[Amondra]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

It is in the final game. If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry stage and get him to admit he's been wrong the whole time.

*starts Rival-mance over again*

I will get this!!! I will!

[Eydris Ivo]

I hope we can narrow it down. I am so unbelievably curious knowing this is possible. 0_o

Modifié par Rheia1234, 25 mars 2011 - 07:52 .

[Inzhuna]

I hate bugs >_< I really really hope I will just find out I picked wrong options... but that hope is faint. i'm 95% sure it's bugged.

[Amondra]

 I go sleep and next thing I know this fourm gets like four new pages o.O

I am glad it is in the game and makes sense for the rival path as well (not going to lie, the fangirl wants it on friendship, but I understand why not)

I don't think it cheapens him.  I truly believe Justice/Veangence had more to do with the bomb then Anders really. considering how he was always trying to help people, even in Awakening he started out as a spirit healer(I know was more for we need a healer thing) but I also saw it as his natural incline to help others.  So point when the Chantry went sky high I was like "WTF Anders!"  then I nerd raged and was like "JUSTICE!!!!" and strangled the spirit out of him in my mind.

But yeah, you can see the regret in his eyes.  I think it is fitting for him somehow, like he is holding on to what little humanity Justice hasn't taken.  That he is still fighting for himself.

Also he even said that Vengeance is fighting to get over over his choice more or less, so at the point Anders is winning the fight.  Also I finished the game with the Debug and Varric says I become vicount and then disappear and Anders stayed with me. *was content*

[Hellosanta]

I loaded Act II save file just before starting Anders's tranquil solution and went from there. You have to choose aggressive/sarcastic options that indicates Hawke is against Anders's ideas. Aggresive options work better, I think. At some point he starts to tell you that maybe he should give the fight against templar up and call justice as a vengeance more.

[Shandyr]

Amondra wrote...

 I go sleep and next thing I know this fourm gets like four new pages o.O

I am glad it is in the game and makes sense for the rival path as well (not going to lie, the fangirl wants it on friendship, but I understand why not)

I don't think it cheapens him.  I truly believe Justice/Veangence had more to do with the bomb then Anders really. considering how he was always trying to help people, even in Awakening he started out as a spirit healer(I know was more for we need a healer thing) but I also saw it as his natural incline to help others.  So point when the Chantry went sky high I was like "WTF Anders!"  then I nerd raged and was like "JUSTICE!!!!" and strangled the spirit out of him in my mind.

But yeah, you can see the regret in his eyes.  I think it is fitting for him somehow, like he is holding on to what little humanity Justice hasn't taken.  That he is still fighting for himself.

Also he even said that Vengeance is fighting to get over over his choice more or less, so at the point Anders is winning the fight.  Also I finished the game with the Debug and Varric says I become vicount and then disappear and Anders stayed with me. *was content*

And to you remember meeting Justice your first time? Trying to defend those innocents in the Fade that were tortured by that evil hag? Justice alone wouldnt have done such a thing like blowing up the church.

I think they spoiled each other. Anders spoiled Justice and vice versa.

[Addai]

Link3521 wrote...

Siding with the templars isn't the "evil" choice, first of all, neither is it the "good" choice, I think both choices have merits. My Hawke that sided with the Templars thought the circle was already lost, he'd been nice to most mages throughout the game and they were still turning to blood magic like there was no tomorrow, they even kidnapped the sibling even though you helped them! (that made me mad) As it turned out, most of the circle really was lost already, the corruption ran too deep with the first enchanter hiding blood mages, and worse (Quentin), among his ranks.

Demons are entering templar ranks as well, and Meredith is completely crackerjacks, so how are they any better?

The thing with Anders, it only makes sense in my mind if: a) I accept that the old Anders is dead- that he was already gone when we meet him in DA2 and he's not coming back, or he's just so completely broken at that moment that he doesn't trust his own judgment and is willing to be led by Hawke into doing something he would never do otherwise.  Hawke is the new Justice, at least at that moment.  Where Justice is when that is happening... no idea.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 mars 2011 - 08:09 .

[Ryzaki]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

It is in the final game. If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry stage and get him to admit he's been wrong the whole time.

WAT

*starts a new playthrough*

I could've sworn he was at full rivalry. 

It's that goddamn amulet I swear it is.  Forcing 15 friendship FTL


But I spent the whole game being douche Hawke to him. 

:/

I either did something wrong or it's bugged. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2011 - 08:12 .

[SurelyForth]

Amondra wrote...

 I go sleep and next thing I know this fourm gets like four new pages o.O

I am glad it is in the game and makes sense for the rival path as well (not going to lie, the fangirl wants it on friendship, but I understand why not)

I don't think it cheapens him.  I truly believe Justice/Veangence had more to do with the bomb then Anders really. considering how he was always trying to help people, even in Awakening he started out as a spirit healer(I know was more for we need a healer thing) but I also saw it as his natural incline to help others.  So point when the Chantry went sky high I was like "WTF Anders!"  then I nerd raged and was like "JUSTICE!!!!" and strangled the spirit out of him in my mind.

But yeah, you can see the regret in his eyes.  I think it is fitting for him somehow, like he is holding on to what little humanity Justice hasn't taken.  That he is still fighting for himself.

Also he even said that Vengeance is fighting to get over over his choice more or less, so at the point Anders is winning the fight.  Also I finished the game with the Debug and Varric says I become vicount and then disappear and Anders stayed with me. *was content*

Except by helping Annul the Circle, he's killing himself. In a way. Justice was not the reason he hates the Chantry. What they do to mages, what they did to him by taking him from his family, then imprisoning and mistreating him, is why he hates the Chantry. If he fights the mages, he is validating the system and the school of thought that took his life from him. I don't see how a Hawke who would expect him to do that is any better than Vengeance at that point and the Anders that agrees is just as warped by Hawke as Justice was by Anders' own anger.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 25 mars 2011 - 08:14 .

[Eydris Ivo]

Ryzaki wrote...

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

It is in the final game. If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry stage and get him to admit he's been wrong the whole time.

WAT

*starts a new playthrough*

I could've sworn he was at full rivalry. 

It's that goddamn amulet I swear it is.  Forcing 15 friendship FTL


But I spent the whole game being douche Hawke to him. 

:/

I either did something wrong or it's bugged. 

We have to figure it out...FOR SCIENCE! .....so curious......

[Amondra]

SurelyForth wrote...

Amondra wrote...

 I go sleep and next thing I know this fourm gets like four new pages o.O

I am glad it is in the game and makes sense for the rival path as well (not going to lie, the fangirl wants it on friendship, but I understand why not)

I don't think it cheapens him.  I truly believe Justice/Veangence had more to do with the bomb then Anders really. considering how he was always trying to help people, even in Awakening he started out as a spirit healer(I know was more for we need a healer thing) but I also saw it as his natural incline to help others.  So point when the Chantry went sky high I was like "WTF Anders!"  then I nerd raged and was like "JUSTICE!!!!" and strangled the spirit out of him in my mind.

But yeah, you can see the regret in his eyes.  I think it is fitting for him somehow, like he is holding on to what little humanity Justice hasn't taken.  That he is still fighting for himself.

Also he even said that Vengeance is fighting to get over over his choice more or less, so at the point Anders is winning the fight.  Also I finished the game with the Debug and Varric says I become vicount and then disappear and Anders stayed with me. *was content*

Except by helping Annul the Circle, he's killing himself. In a way. Justice was not the reason he hates the Chantry. What they do to mages, what they did to him by taking him from his family, then imprisoning and mistreating him, is why he hates the Chantry. If he fights the mages, he is validating the system and the school of thought that took his life from him. I don't see how a Hawke who would expect him to do that is any better than Vengeance at that point and the Anders that agrees is just as warped by Hawke as Justice was by Anders' own anger.

True, and I felt horried when he said that  I agree with your point, but sometimes I feel he would have never gone to such an exterme if he was winning the "fight" with Vengeance.  However everytime I romance him it is friendship and I help the mages runaway and live happily on the run. I am a sucker for those things bah.

Also I don't blame him for hating the chantry, I guess if you gay-mance him you get more dialog about him, and he hints how he was brutally taken from his parents.  After that I was like "**** this Chantry ****!"

Still for rival romance I can see it because atleast my Hawke was all about making him feel like **** and small, so making him help his "enemy" made sense for her, but no not for my friendship Hawke.

[Ryzaki]

...I just want to know if I can get a similar speech on the rivalry path if I side with the mages. That's all I really care about. :/ 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2011 - 08:23 .

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

...I just want to know if I can get a similar speech on the rivalry path if I side with the mages. That's all I really care about. :/ 

I rivaled him and got the same speech as friendly, though it could have bugged

[Inzhuna]

@Ryzaki I just tried it and it's same speech as on Friendship path. Unless it's bugged, too.

@hellosanta: That's what I did (I play aggressive Hawke) and it still didn't happen. Did you agree to distract the Grand Cleric? Gah, I wish Jennifer would tell us more >_<

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...

...I just want to know if I can get a similar speech on the rivalry path if I side with the mages. That's all I really care about. :/ 

From the way Rivalry/Friendship goes, maybe it's a situation that is not accounted for? Or the game assumes that, by siding with the mages and sparing him, you are supporting his cause. Finally. Kind of an Anders 1, Hawke 0 scenario.

[Ryzaki]

Amondra wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...I just want to know if I can get a similar speech on the rivalry path if I side with the mages. That's all I really care about. :/ 

I rivaled him and got the same speech as friendly, though it could have bugged

D:

Laaam. 

I got the friendly speech too which looks like he did a 180 from our last conversation. 

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...I just want to know if I can get a similar speech on the rivalry path if I side with the mages. That's all I really care about. :/ 

I rivaled him and got the same speech as friendly, though it could have bugged

D:

Laaam. 

I got the friendly speech too which looks like he did a 180 from our last conversation. 

I think it is the shock you sided with the mages and didn't kill him lol

[Camenae]

Hellosanta wrote...

I loaded Act II save file just before starting Anders's tranquil solution and went from there. You have to choose aggressive/sarcastic options that indicates Hawke is against Anders's ideas. Aggresive options work better, I think. At some point he starts to tell you that maybe he should give the fight against templar up and call justice as a vengeance more.

Hm, ok, I will have to go back earlier then.  I loaded the save before his Act 3 Questioning Beliefs quest, and I did get him to say "You were right all along.  Maybe it's not too late for me to change things"  but in the end he still refused to come with me. 

Argh I don't want to debate whether this fits character for Anders or not, I'm just so curious to see how exactly this can happen!  Please people let's figure this out.  We can debate the rightness or wrongness of it afterwards.

[Inzhuna]

I agree, Camenae, I'd just like to know it's not bugged and I can get this ending. I'll think about what this means for Anders and Hawke as characters later.

[Eydris Ivo]

Camenae wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

I loaded Act II save file just before starting Anders's tranquil solution and went from there. You have to choose aggressive/sarcastic options that indicates Hawke is against Anders's ideas. Aggresive options work better, I think. At some point he starts to tell you that maybe he should give the fight against templar up and call justice as a vengeance more.

Hm, ok, I will have to go back earlier then.  I loaded the save before his Act 3 Questioning Beliefs quest, and I did get him to say "You were right all along.  Maybe it's not too late for me to change things"  but in the end he still refused to come with me. 

Argh I don't want to debate whether this fits character for Anders or not, I'm just so curious to see how exactly this can happen!  Please people let's figure this out.  We can debate the rightness or wrongness of it afterwards.

Exactly. I want to see it as a curiosity sated thing.

[marquiseondore]

Rheia1234 wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

I loaded Act II save file just before starting Anders's tranquil solution and went from there. You have to choose aggressive/sarcastic options that indicates Hawke is against Anders's ideas. Aggresive options work better, I think. At some point he starts to tell you that maybe he should give the fight against templar up and call justice as a vengeance more.

Hm, ok, I will have to go back earlier then.  I loaded the save before his Act 3 Questioning Beliefs quest, and I did get him to say "You were right all along.  Maybe it's not too late for me to change things"  but in the end he still refused to come with me. 

Argh I don't want to debate whether this fits character for Anders or not, I'm just so curious to see how exactly this can happen!  Please people let's figure this out.  We can debate the rightness or wrongness of it afterwards.

Exactly. I want to see it as a curiosity sated thing.

I second this.

[Ryzaki]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...I just want to know if I can get a similar speech on the rivalry path if I side with the mages. That's all I really care about. :/ 

From the way Rivalry/Friendship goes, maybe it's a situation that is not accounted for? Or the game assumes that, by siding with the mages and sparing him, you are supporting his cause. Finally. Kind of an Anders 1, Hawke 0 scenario.

Bah that's not supporting a cause. I just didn't want to slaughter innocent people. 

This sucks.  

[Zjarcal]

So is anyone else going to ignore this new info and just pretend it doesn't exist? It won't be hard for me since I don't think I'd ever do a game with all those conditions in the first place. 

But yeah... as someone said earlier, I just can't see ANY version of Anders ever supporting a Rite of Annulment. So I'll just pretend it's an option that doesn't really exist, like the third option in the Connor debacle in Origins. 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 mars 2011 - 09:28 .