136 réponses à ce sujet

[Welsh Inferno]

WHAT IS IT?! D:

[Alienmorph]

I am not Shepard? Damn... you just changed my life! Thank you, Captain Obvious!

[Razorburn]

TommyServo wrote...

Razorburn wrote...

Playing games is escapism? Really? Talking to a photograph after a close family member dies, or thinking about being on another planet whilst your city is being attacked by enemy troops is escapism. Video games are played by the large majority of people for fun. Roleplaying games, like strategy games or an fps, add their own kind of flavor. RP's are more character oriented in my opinion and play more like a book, which is why I like them. Nothing to do with "inserting into another role."

Look up the definition of escapism.

Ha! It's funny when someone says "look up the definition of _" in a discussion, I always thought it was more of a tactic (playing to the crowd) than anything actually solid. I knew the definition of escapism, but I'll entertain your suggestion, and in case you're too lazy to do the same I'll sum it up for you: avoidance of unacceptable or unpleasant reality through a diversion or fantasy. With the definition no longer a mystery, are you still supporting your original assumption that people play video games as a form of escapism? Granted, if the reason you're playing is because you hate your job, that's escapism. (Yes, for actions the why is as/more important than the what.) You can't just throw a blanket over everyone because of a minority of people. That's lazy and irresponsible.

TommyServo wrote...

A source for whatever you're bringing up would be welcome, but either way, I'm assuming you're referring to one of the two Ray Muzyka - note that he's a CEO, not a developer -  quotes which basically say the same thing - one of which Coolair provided on the first page of this thread. Alright cool - we're all aware of that quote. He gave it as a dodge when he was asked a question he didn't want to answer about same sex relationships in Mass Effect. The state of the released game contradicts what he's saying. The quote from Casey Hudson - who, unlike Muzyka, is a developer - contradicts what he's saying.

You're right, people will still complain about a "flawless" product. Mass Effect isn't a flawless product, and the forums are the best place to address ways in which it can be improved. It is, as you say, their game. They can choose to implement certain things or not. They have proven in the past that they listen to their fans when developing new content, so it's only natural that people speak up on the forums to rally for what they want. The OP is saying that this is pointless and that we should accept the game as it is. S/he's entitled their opinion, but it's stupid to tell everyone else that they should settle, when there are many many ways in which it can be improved.

Incorrect assumption, Tommy. Actually I was referring to Mac Walters in the "Making of Mass Effect 2," for those of us who bought the collector's edition (or you can probably youtube it I'm sure someone put it up there). He said the ability to have such an impact on the game, by pointing Shepard in a certain direction and watching as things unfold (sometimes not as you'd expect) as a player is what helps distinguish ME from other games, and he's right in my opinion. No game has the interrupt system like ME2, and I hope it catches on in other games. Further proof is with the dialogue; notice the choices you have aren't what Shepard actually says. You choose a direction, and Shep goes that way, in his own way.

What the OP is trying to say is that Shepard is a character in the story, similar to the other characters in many ways, but different in that you can actually choose what path to take when he reaches different cross-roads. Like an interactive movie where you can choose at certain moments what that character should do; either way you're still watching the character.

[FKA_Servo]

Razorburn wrote...


Ha! It's funny when someone says "look up the definition of _" in a discussion, I always thought it was more of a tactic (playing to the crowd) than anything actually solid. I knew the definition of escapism, but I'll entertain your suggestion, and in case you're too lazy to do the same I'll sum it up for you: avoidance of unacceptable or unpleasant reality through a diversion or fantasy. With the definition no longer a mystery, are you still supporting your original assumption that people play video games as a form of escapism? Granted, if the reason you're playing is because you hate your job, that's escapism. (Yes, for actions the why is as/more important than the what.) You can't just throw a blanket over everyone because of a minority of people. That's lazy and irresponsible.

...

Incorrect assumption, Tommy. Actually I was referring to Mac Walters in the "Making of Mass Effect 2," for those of us who bought the collector's edition (or you can probably youtube it I'm sure someone put it up there). He said the ability to have such an impact on the game, by pointing Shepard in a certain direction and watching as things unfold (sometimes not as you'd expect) as a player is what helps distinguish ME from other games, and he's right in my opinion. No game has the interrupt system like ME2, and I hope it catches on in other games. Further proof is with the dialogue; notice the choices you have aren't what Shepard actually says. You choose a direction, and Shep goes that way, in his own way.

What the OP is trying to say is that Shepard is a character in the story, similar to the other characters in many ways, but different in that you can actually choose what path to take when he reaches different cross-roads. Like an interactive movie where you can choose at certain moments what that character should do; either way you're still watching the character.

That came out wrong. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I do stand by my usage of the word escapism, and I do know what it means. I think your examples are extreme. I don't think that escape from unacceptable or unpleasant realities are inherently implied - although obviously that can be an aspect - rather than just the humdrum of daily routine. So yeah,  I do think that many people who play videogames do so as a form of escapism. I think many people who read and write fiction or watch movies do so for the same reason. It's fun to immerse yourself in an engaging and fantastic narrative, and it can be a lot of fun to adopt an entirely new persona. Clearly not everyone plays this way, but I definitely don't think that it's a "minority" of people who do, especially if we're talking fans of roleplaying games as a genre.

With regards to the quote you mentioned, I have the CE, but I was unaware of that statement - I've never watched the DVD, and I can't find the clip on youtube, so I'll take your word for it. From your summary, the substance seems more or less the same as the often cited Muzyka blurbs.

I am curious about why you feel the need to jump to the OP's defense, when it basically amounts to an unwarranted attack on the way some people choose to play. We're not playing the game "wrong" - we're playing well within the narrative framework established by Bioware, in a way that is only to be expected of someone heavily invested in the story. Obviously, it is Bioware's character - they will take Shepard in the direction they want. And yes, there is a broad, overarching narrative that does not change. But that doesn't change the fact that they did include tons of potential personality traits and characterization options, revealed through character creation and dialogue choices during the game. It makes for a very customizable, potentially relatable PC, whose personal journey can vary quite a lot. Is it a problem to ask for more options to make the main character more even more customizable and resolve inconsistencies?

Edit: For weird formatting.

Modifié par TommyServo, 28 mars 2011 - 07:41 .

[MaynPayn]

does anyone remember what "RPG" stood for?

[Hennex]

If I am not Shepard, then that must make you Captain Obvious!

[Greybox_Inception]

Welsh Inferno wrote...



WHAT IS IT?! D:

i don't eat apples

[Bloggers99]

MaynPayn wrote...

does anyone remember what "RPG" stood for?

Rocket-propelled grenade?
Rally of the Guinean People?
Reboungs Per Game?

[Pwener2313]

Im not Shepard, it's just a game. This thread is dumb.

[CroGamer002]

MaynPayn wrote...

does anyone remember what "RPG" stood for?

Blowing sh*t up?

[Pwener2313]

lol

[ADelusiveMan]

Mesina's post for the win. Everything else is now irrelevant.

[MaynPayn]

Mesina2 wrote...

MaynPayn wrote...

does anyone remember what "RPG" stood for?

Blowing sh*t up?

yeah i think thats the one i was thinking of. thank you:) sry for going off- topic just had to know.
too bad theres no RPGs in ME

[Pwener2313]

We do have blue rockets!

[MaynPayn]

we haz? taught the closes thing we had were missile or grenade launchers.

[Pwener2313]

Nope.... and for the record, Im not Shepard..... Im *THE* Shepard.

[Ryzaki]

Mesina2 wrote...

I have fallen in love with this at first sight. Thank you for posting it.  

Varric. <3

[Chuvvy]

Wait, your saying I'm not an interstellar space playboy with magical throwing abilities and galactic saving prowess? Well this changes everything.

[MisterDyslexo]

Mesina2 wrote...

**** Jesus, **** Sovereign, you must be god.

[Unkei]

[Pwener2313]

He's not humoing it, it was a psychology experiment.... oh nevermind, nobody is going to listen anyway.

[Razorburn]

TommyServo wrote...

That came out wrong. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I do stand by my usage of the word escapism, and I do know what it means. I think your examples are extreme. I don't think that escape from unacceptable or unpleasant realities are inherently implied - although obviously that can be an aspect - rather than just the humdrum of daily routine. So yeah,  I do think that many people who play videogames do so as a form of escapism.

Actually, I used extreme examples because escapism is an extreme happenstance. Unacceptable and unpleasant isn't implied with escapism, it's express. That's why I even commented on your use of it. People getting a beer with co-workers at the end of a long work day or playing some video games to relax and have some fun is not escapism. It's R&R.

TommyServo wrote...
I think many people who read and write fiction or watch movies do so for the same reason. It's fun to immerse yourself in an engaging and fantastic narrative, and it can be a lot of fun to adopt an entirely new persona. Clearly not everyone plays this way, but I definitely don't think that it's a "minority" of people who do, especially if we're talking fans of roleplaying games as a genre.

Although not within the original scope of this thread, you're still on topic here, so I'll follow the discussion. Movies are purely for entertainment, and I think the weakest support for the argument of a means for "adopting a new persona." The original movies were comedies, or about vampires, aliens or flying airplanes; anything that people would want to see. Mostly for spectacle. Thus the large explosions and comedic relief in most movies, as people are still thrilled by jaw-dropping explosions, fireworks, and of course, drama.

Fiction books, and especially science fiction, like Jules Verne's from the Earth to the Moon, is mostly about what could be. What if. A means to explore the imagination. Sure a lot of people identify with it, but I see that as more of a side effect than the actual purpose of it. I once heard a man say, "scientific discovery begins in wonder," one of my favorite deviations of Socrates' quote. Would you argue that having a good imagination, and using it, is escapist behavior? Or, the adoption of new personas?

TommyServo wrote...

I am curious about why you feel the need to jump to the OP's defense, when it basically amounts to an unwarranted attack on the way some people choose to play. We're not playing the game "wrong" - we're playing well within the narrative framework established by Bioware, in a way that is only to be expected of someone heavily invested in the story. Obviously, it is Bioware's character - they will take Shepard in the direction they want. And yes, there is a broad, overarching narrative that does not change.

I assure you I'm not "leaping" to anyone's defense. I believe in what he's trying to say about the gamer's part in Shepard's story, though I'm sure I disagree with him at points. Please don't assume we're standing united here, we aren't in the same political party, and I expect my words to stand on their own the way I don't tack on the opinion of others with yours. I never said you're playing the game incorrectly, actually my sentiments reflect what you said about the story. Hopefully, though, BioWare sets the rules of the game instead of the score, and allows us to play in the direction of our own choosing. I have never played a more interactive game where decisions I make have as major an impact, as in ME. In most other games you're allowed to choose what path to take, if even, but the end result is the same.

TommyServo wrote...

But that doesn't change the fact that they did include tons of potential personality traits and characterization options, revealed through character creation and dialogue choices during the game. It makes for a very customizable, potentially relatable PC, whose personal journey can vary quite a lot. Is it a problem to ask for more options to make the main character more even more customizable and resolve inconsistencies?

Are you saying something along the lines of: "if they wen't that far, why not take it a little more?" Instead of being happy with the customization they are giving you, you'd rather have less or more, but not what they offer?

[MaynPayn]

Pwener2313 wrote...

He's not humoing it, it was a psychology experiment.... oh nevermind, nobody is going to listen anyway.

sure, im listening, so say what you had to say, plixx:)

[Drake_Hound]

Tell that to the kids who think they are all master chief ....
Or want to see master chief face .

[Pwener2313]

MaynPayn wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

He's not humoing it, it was a psychology experiment.... oh nevermind, nobody is going to listen anyway.

sure, im listening, so say what you had to say, plixx:)

I am the master of sarcasm, I know who uses it and when.