136 réponses à ce sujet

[Quole]

I AM WHOEVER I DAMN WELL SAY I AM,.

[Chala]

Of course I'm not shepard! In fact I am blasto!

[Ramirez Wolfen]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Get out. Whenever I play ME, Shepard reacts to each situation as I would, so yes, in a sense, that Shepard is molded around my personality and thought processing in the situations of ME.

For other playthroughs no, since I like to RP different kinds of people.

But basically, this is just an indirect attack at the gays who are upset at the lack of gay/bisexual LI's in ME, and while I'm a straight male and thus don't give a darn either way with that situation, I can still see this thread is in poor taste and will do nothing but cause trollin' and flamewarin'.

OP is asking for it.

/popcorn

Don't forget a drink too lol

[Praetor Knight]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Don't forget a drink too lol

At least some 3-D glasses



Edit: found this one too: http://chzgifs.files...7/silverfox.gif

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 29 mars 2011 - 01:35 .

[Pwener2313]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Of course I'm not shepard! In fact I am blasto!

And Im Saren's ghost!

[Labrev]

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

[LoveAsThouWilt]

I am not Shepard? The Council has dismissed this claim. (this is a troll thread at this rate, so I might as well continue it)

[lovgreno]

habitat 67 wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

My Shepards (Wardens, Exiles, Hawkes, etc..) are what I make them to be.

Are they all supermodels like the one in your avatar? I hope so.

Sadly, no. For some strange reason I am not allowed to make dwarven heroes in ME and DA2. Boring humans. And where are the games with a turian hunk or babe in the leading role? I suppose the sheer amount of awesome that is dwarves would break our minds if we get more of them than we already have. And imagine playing as GAY dwarves! That would force every one to become gay as well even if they don't have to choose any gay option at all.

[FKA_Servo]

Razorburn wrote...

Actually, I used extreme examples because escapism is an extreme happenstance. Unacceptable and unpleasant isn't implied with escapism, it's express. That's why I even commented on your use of it. People getting a beer with co-workers at the end of a long work day or playing some video games to relax and have some fun is not escapism. It's R&R.

...

Although not within the original scope of this thread, you're still on topic here, so I'll follow the discussion. Movies are purely for entertainment, and I think the weakest support for the argument of a means for "adopting a new persona." The original movies were comedies, or about vampires, aliens or flying airplanes; anything that people would want to see. Mostly for spectacle. Thus the large explosions and comedic relief in most movies, as people are still thrilled by jaw-dropping explosions, fireworks, and of course, drama.

Fiction books, and especially science fiction, like Jules Verne's from the Earth to the Moon, is mostly about what could be. What if. A means to explore the imagination. Sure a lot of people identify with it, but I see that as more of a side effect than the actual purpose of it. I once heard a man say, "scientific discovery begins in wonder," one of my favorite deviations of Socrates' quote. Would you argue that having a good imagination, and using it, is escapist behavior? Or, the adoption of new personas?

I don't know about this. I think the definition of the word has far more leeway and is far less sinister than you're allowing. That said, I should have separated my thoughts better. I don't think that immersing yourself in a fiction - getting lost in a movie, book, or video game - is the same thing as adopting a new persona. But some storytelling mediums do lend themselves to that better than others - specifically, I'm thinking of roleplaying games. It could be a pen and paper RPG, or it could be a video game like ME. Some people are content to watch the story unfold like a movie or a book. Some people would prefer to imagine themselves in that characters shoes, maybe even with their personality, convictions, and predilections intact. Using your imagination to pluck yourself out of the real world and adopt the identity of an intergalactic hero is something I would consider escapist behavior, as I understand it - I have a much less dire understanding of the word than you seem to. I could be incorrect, and I've definitely heard it used in the context you describe. But I've heard it used to describe much less dreadful circumstances as well.

I assure you I'm not "leaping" to anyone's defense. I believe in what he's trying to say about the gamer's part in Shepard's story, though I'm sure I disagree with him at points. Please don't assume we're standing united here, we aren't in the same political party, and I expect my words to stand on their own the way I don't tack on the opinion of others with yours. I never said you're playing the game incorrectly, actually my sentiments reflect what you said about the story. Hopefully, though, BioWare sets the rules of the game instead of the score, and allows us to play in the direction of our own choosing. I have never played a more interactive game where decisions I make have as major an impact, as in ME. In most other games you're allowed to choose what path to take, if even, but the end result is the same.


Are you saying something along the lines of: "if they wen't that far, why not take it a little more?" Instead of being happy with the customization they are giving you, you'd rather have less or more, but not what they offer?

I am happy with the amount of customization they are allowing me. But - and this directly relates to my position on adopting a new persona - I think they could always make it better or more detailed. The more choices that are  provided about the PC's personality, the more positions they can take, the more opinions they can espouse over the course of conversation - they all make the character easier to slip into. Muzyka and Walters (caveat - still haven't watched that DVD, but I will in the next couple of days) may go on about Shepard being a "pre-defined" character, but the fact is, they provided a lot of little details that can alter the character in profound ways. Shepard can assert a belief in a higher power, for example, or s/he can identify as an atheist or an agnostic. S/he can look down on the other citadel races and treat the advancement of humanity and Cerberus as a top priority, or s/he can work with them for a unified galaxy. At one point in the development of both games, Shepard (both male and female) could positively identify as gay, or through his or her actions, identify as bisexual. Hell, Shepard can be a man or a woman. Those are small things in the big picture, and I don't think they could ever heavily influence the narrative, but they come together to make the character more relatable and the roleplaying experience much richer for many people. I don't think anyone can rationally argue against them. So yeah - I'd rather have more than what they offer. There are lots of people who agree with me.

Anywho, from looking at the last two pages, I think we're probably the only ones having a conversation, so I vote we let the trolls have it. Thank you for a lively discussion though, Razorburn.

Modifié par TommyServo, 29 mars 2011 - 04:01 .

[LoveAsThouWilt]

On a series note the whole point of giving opinions of things we like it to tell them what is good and what MORE we want, because, they are looking to improve upon what they make and everyone expects sequels and dlc to expand a games universe in a good way. What should we do, sit down play and be happy and not giving a damn what they may do with a sequel? I don't think so.

[Unkei]

I'm Commander Shepard and this is not my favourite thread on Citadel BWSN.

[MB617]

I'm Commander Shepard. Your aruement is invalid.

[Kakistos_]

coolair74 wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

The guy is actually making a pretty legitimate point (one of which the Bioware developers, I think, agreed with, saying how ME is more like a third person narrative) and you are all being ****s. You might not agree with him but show some more respect.

It's not, though. Shepard's backstory has more variables than the Grey Warden's (which is who Muzyka was using for comparison in the non-answer you're citing). S/he can run the gamut of selfless paragon to scumbag sociopath. Different characters - important characters - can live or die depending on your own personal canon.

Mass Effect does have a broad, set narrative, this is true - but it is not a "third person" narrative. If it were, then none of the choices we currently have would be available, and we'd all be playing as John Shepard from the cover.

'Sometimes, in some of our games, we are going to have a defined character with a more defined view. Almost like a third-person narrative -- where Mass Effect is more in that vein, Dragon Age isn’t in that vein; you could see the differences between the two. It’s just part of the design and the choices made for each game. It doesn’t mean that we’ve in anyway changed our philosophy toward enabling choice. We love giving players choice, and we are going to continue to enable that for future games. That’s a commitment for some of our franchises. For some other franchises we’ve had more defined characters and sort of approaches to things, and they’ve had a more defined personality and a more defined approach to the way they’ve proceed through the game and the world."

- BioWare head honcho Ray Muzyka

You just got served, The OP's post is full of WIN.

Look. Facts.

[SkittlesKat96]

I sort of slightly disagree but mostly agree with the OP and it's funny how most people on the first page couldn't think of an argument so they just posted funny pictures and said weird things....

Anyways I still feel like I'm role playing as Commander Shepard and a part of me is him and stuff like that,

[SkittlesKat96]

I sort of slightly disagree but mostly agree with the OP and it's funny how most people on the first page couldn't think of an argument so they just posted funny pictures and said weird things....

Anyways I still feel like I'm role playing as Commander Shepard and a part of me is him and stuff like that,

[Amyntas]

We're all Conrad Verner, obviously. And I'm proud if it. Shepard has shown us what it means to be truly extreme!!1

Modifié par Amyntas, 29 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Unkei]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

I sort of slightly disagree but mostly agree with the OP and it's funny how most people on the first page couldn't think of an argument so they just posted funny pictures and said weird things....

Anyways I still feel like I'm role playing as Commander Shepard and a part of me is him and stuff like that,

So you are saying that Shepard is a pretty cool guy eh kills Collectors and doesn’t afraid of anything?

[TUHD]

Don't feed the trolls...

[Spectro87]

Invicible Hero isn't a troll, he has completely valid points in both of his threads that need to be addressed among the community.. It's NOT a dating simulator and you AREN'T Shepard. You don't get to make whatever choices you see fit. You aren't supposed to be able to choose to sleep with any NPC in the entire game. You follow a storyline and you deviate from it, branching the story out. The only people that are being "fed" are BioWare. They are being fed awful feedback for people who think Mass Effect should be The Sims in space. People think they should be able to make whatever decisions they want, no matter what. That is ridiculous. Do you think it was BioWare's intention for you to be able to side with the Reapers? No? Then why are you suggesting things that are so incredibly implausible such as that? It's pure ignorance from uneducated teenagers and it's getting old fast. Opinions can be wrong, and popular opinion can be as well. This is just an example, but why do you think people like T-Pain? He is a talentless hack that uses the studio to make himself sound like a machine. My point is that the popular opinion on this forum is wrong in so many ways.

[Razorburn]

TommyServo wrote...

Anywho, from looking at the last two pages, I think we're probably the only ones having a conversation, so I vote we let the trolls have it. Thank you for a lively discussion though, Razorburn.

It's funny you wrote that; I was just looking at other discussions in the thread and thought the same thing. However much I would like to continue our conversation (and respond to your obviously well thought out points), I think you're right.

I always enjoy a good discussion, so thanks to you as well, TommyServo. Until next time.

[Razorburn]

Spectro87 wrote...

Invicible Hero isn't a troll, he has completely valid points in both of his threads that need to be addressed among the community.. It's NOT a dating simulator and you AREN'T Shepard. You don't get to make whatever choices you see fit. You aren't supposed to be able to choose to sleep with any NPC in the entire game. You follow a storyline and you deviate from it, branching the story out.

While I agree with what you're trying to say in a general sense (though I find your delivery questionable, you're clearly trying to be provocative, and so is the OP), I would like to point out the success of "The Witcher" and how it differentiated itself mostly with it's romance system; which I'm bringing up since the romances are what you're mentioning here. If ME implemented something along those lines, with many potential romances, do you think that would be a mistake?

[And for those who don't know The Witcher had romances with lots of characters, and each successful "romance" yielded a card with that character on it, usually in the nude... and there were about 25 or so cards, if I'm not mistaken]

[Pumpeho]

The use of the word escapism isnt as narrow as used in alot of cases. Most definitions might state an unacceptable or unplesant situation, but those words are in themselves quite flexible. Could be everything from restless, bored or itching for stimuli to being tortured, maimed and hanged on a cross. In short: the definition can be bent to suit all situations (which in itself makes the word hollow, but thats where context comes in I guess).

Marx, Chomsky and a metric intercourseton of other political and philosophical writers use it in a negative sense
Several others use it closer to daydreaming and using your imagination (cant come up with a name, but Im bloody sure I read it in a shrinkology book).

What someone says (Bioware executive dude, whatever) doesnt necessarily mean thats the way it is. Shepard is constructed by you and the knowledge you possess. If you want to be her conscience and not her due to what you percieve, then thats your construct.

I am Shepard and my subconcious is Wrex.

Modifié par Pumpeho, 29 mars 2011 - 09:04 .

[Razorburn]

Pumpeho wrote...

The use of the word escapism isnt as narrow as used in alot of cases. Most definitions might state an unacceptable or unplesant situation, but those words are in themselves quite flexible. Could be everything from restless, bored or itching for stimuli to being tortured, maimed and hanged on a cross. In short: the definition can be bent to suit all situations (which in itself makes the word hollow, but thats where context comes in I guess).

Marx, Chomsky and a metric intercourseton of other political and philosophical writers use it in a negative sense
Several others use it closer to daydreaming and using your imagination (cant come up with a name, but Im bloody sure I read it in a shrinkology book).

Ok, escapism. You're saying that since unacceptable and unpleasant are broad terms, that makes things they define broad as well. People are faced with lots of situations they might find unpleasant or unacceptable, and I'm sure most people would agree, exeplified by the popularity of terms like "sh_t happens" or "that's life" (which is usually used to describe undesirable outcomes).

However, how people choose to react to those situations is where this discussion is stemming from. Escapism is one possible reaction to those stimuli, basically, to retreat from _ problem into other diversions or fantasies. Are unacceptable or unpleasant broad terms, yes, that is not in refute. Proving that unacceptable/unpleasant is a broad term doesn't make escapism broad because that is not the only criterion. Retreat from unpleasant/unacceptable reality is escapism. (Whether intentional or not, you employed the Red Herring logical fallacy by trying to change the discussion to unpleasant/unacceptable to prove your point.)

Pumpeho wrote...

What someone says (Bioware executive dude, whatever) doesnt necessarily mean thats the way it is. Shepard is constructed by you and the knowledge you possess. If you want to be her conscience and not her due to what you percieve, then thats your construct.

I am Shepard and my subconcious is Wrex.

My biggest qualms with the whole movement of "I am Shepard" is that people use that as a basis for complaining about what they personally want in game, in spite of what would fit for the character. I personally play guitar and piano, do I want Shepard playing guitar/piano? Heck no, that would be crazy. It doesn't fit.

Now you could make the argument, "If you claim I can customize him however I want, then taking those choices away/not putting them in game ruins the experience for me." That's a good argument, but here's where it fails. Mass Effect is a Role-Playing Game, with lots of action, dialogue, plot and character development. Sure, if ME was a simulator or some kind of MMO, then you can make yourself with all the trimmings; and there are plenty of those on the market if that's what you like. They also have an insane amount of customization and let you choose what paths to take. That's a bonus, ME is the exception to the rule, as most RPG's have pre-set protagonists and linear objectives. [What differentiates RPG's from other games, historically speaking, is the ability to travel where you want, unlike action games with set levels you have to continue on without the ability to go back]

Enjoy what they give you because it's more than any other game. It's almost as if the more liberties they give the player the more players demand.

[Evil Johnny 666]

InvincibleHero wrote...
It isn't meant to mirror your personality, but Shepard's.

Which is a damn shame. Unless I'd have the choice to play a great character, but it isn't the case now. I think everyone has the right to whine about the lack of choices since Shepard must be one of the most stereotypical, one-dimensional and lifeless characters in video games. Even Master Chief is more interesting, since he doesn't force his boring personality on you all the time, he is discreet in other words which is what shallow characters should be.

[Demonhoopa]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Seems an obvious point right, but I think it needs repeated. Bioware writers created Shepard and gave us a great game series with he/she as the protagonist. You are playing through selected slices of Shepard's life not vicarously recreating your own in the fictional future ME universe. They could never make a game that open and believable to facilitate that anyway.

Makes sense.

As a matter of fact, I play ALL RPG's this way. It gives them more replay value as I do not make decisions based on what I would do. Instead, it's more like writing a book and I let the character kind of dictate the decisions.

It's also why I, a straight male, can play a female so easily which is good since Mass Effect is only tolerable for me that way (I would not even own the game without that option).

P.S.

Even with all the great points you made about romance options, you do have to admit that the RO for femshep SUCKED in ME2. Not objecting or protesting, just an observation.

Modifié par Demonhoopa, 31 mars 2011 - 08:51 .