59 réponses à ce sujet

[DirewolfX]

Grimling wrote...

Primal/force seems to be a great way to go but Bethany doesn't get access to either, and I'm playing a shield/sword hawke. Using Anders for Panacea and support. Bethany I wanted as my DPS mage but she seems to suck. Is there another mage companion?

Use Merrill over Bethany...

[Grimling]

Guess I forgot about Merrill. I took two weeks off from playing when I went on vacation. Just like bioware to ruin a good storyline character like bethany by making her sit in the pub while you adventure with other people instead.

[Talladarr]

Or be dead. Or a Warden. Kindagot nixed feelings about it tbh, I really liked her s a character, if she'd had the same potential as Hawke I'd always have her in my party

[Joy Divison]

I find primal so much better I don't even both with fire. Shame, because I like the concept of pyromaniacs and in origins I thought fireball was best spell - you could get in super early and did everything: decent damage, knock down, AOE, damage over time, etc.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 25 mars 2011 - 05:47 .

[Talladarr]

I agree, however, Winter's Grasp and Cone of Cold are still insanely useful
And yeah, I miss the old Fireball too =/

[x-president]

Rieverre wrote...

Actually, I have a question about Firestorm. Has anyone tested whether or not the unupgraded version does more focused damage? 5m smaller radius makes me think that it would hit more consistently rather than being a bit all over the place like the upgraded version, but I haven't actually gotten around to testing it yet (waiting on patches).

Personally I have never missed anyone with upgraded firestorm.  Even if it's more concentrated fire, it's still a smaller area and you would almost miss more because of that.  Becasue there is no chance to hit the enemy outside the radius, where there is a chance to hit them in a larger radius.


Also doesn't Force Tree boost all the elemental spells even more.

[ezrafetch]

I think they nerfed Fireball because it was so good in Origins. Also, people probably complained about how enemy mages could Fireball-snipe you from far away.

Fire is actually superior for dealing with grunts on Nightmare. They're immune to cold and have decent lightning resistance, but are super-weak to fire. Correctly plant a Firestorm (Gravitic Ring certainly would help in that regard) and you will eliminate a mob before they start.

[Roxlimn]

Just tried out Nightmare. I'd previously finished the game with an Elemental Force Hawke. He rocked Hard. On Hard, Firestorm will still wipe out a bunch of Normals, especially if they're not moving courtesy of Gravitic Ring. Critters are still killed or heavily damaged by Fireball (that's my main use for the skill - for taking out Critters en masse).

Arguably, Fenris or Aveline could take out Critters, but this wastes time as they'll need to move and their attacks won't OHKO the things. Much more efficient to save Fireball for that job.

The Cold skills are just money, of course. CoC + lined up Archer's Lance = lots of damage.

Did most of the game on Hard with no problems. I'm even tackling the final rounds of the game on Nightmare with this Elemental Force Mage. It's surprisingly good - better than I thought, from what I heard here.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 26 mars 2011 - 05:50 .

[Talladarr]

The problem in that respect is mostly the "Party bashing" properties of the fire spells in any mode above normal. Firestorm is pleanty useful, just at too high a cost once the enemies get too close. Of course Grafitic ring and that one other spell in the Force Tree can compensate for that if yo udo it right.

[SuicidalBaby]

I believe you are thinking of Pull of the Abyss or Telekinetic Blast to force them back to the center of the ring in the kill zone. 

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 26 mars 2011 - 06:58 .

[Talladarr]

Pull of the Abyse, that's it. Upgraded it pulles eveythign very well, then Gravitic rings makes sure they go nowhere

[SuicidalBaby]

Fist of the Maker works well to keep them there, if even for another few seconds.

[Talladarr]

I prefer waiting to use that until Gravitic ring is just about worn off, personally. That's when it''s most effective

[Roxlimn]

Talladar:

I've been recently testing on Nightmare in the later levels. As far as I can tell, Telekinetic Blast is more useful on Nightmare than on Hard (where I played most of my mage playthrough) because it allows you to reposition enemies into the kill zone of a Firestorm. Shield Bash and Disperse from Aveline works well, too.

I tend to reserve Pull for a really big combo when the cooldowns are cooperating. Pull into the center, then CoC, then Reaper or Shattering Arrow. I've now discovered that Claymore procs Stagger, too, so I'm looking to respec Aveline to take advantage of grouped, frozen enemies with Battery, which I will capitalize on with Fist of the Maker! Good times.

[Talladarr]

Lol. I have trouble specing warriors, mostly because I cannot STAND using them

[Kal Choedan]

Talladarr wrote...

The problem in that respect is mostly the "Party bashing" properties of the fire spells in any mode above normal.

ITYM on Nightmare only, not "any mode above normal" - there is no friendly fire on Hard.

[Talladarr]

Ahh, I was unaware of this, since they didn't mention it in the difficulty thi8ng like they did in Origins.

[Zan Mura]

Roxlimn wrote...

Talladar:

I tend to reserve Pull for a really big combo when the cooldowns are cooperating. Pull into the center, then CoC, then Reaper or Shattering Arrow. I've now discovered that Claymore procs Stagger, too, so I'm looking to respec Aveline to take advantage of grouped, frozen enemies with Battery, which I will capitalize on with Fist of the Maker! Good times.

I don't like Pull of the Abyss at all. To me it seems highly situational since unless you can use it so that there's a geographic block, the mobs will basically just switch sides on the pull area. Point being that instead of being pulled TO the center so they stop there, they just get pulled to the center direction and then slide way past it. I tried to use Pull to get mobs grouped together but most of the time it only spread them out even more. The only use I've found for it is to basically position half of the area effect on the enemies so I can at least pull the mobs into the same direction, ie. away from my party.

I've even thought it's bugged since the description claims it lasts 5 seconds but it almost seems more like a one-shot thing, it definitely does not exert a pull to the center point past the initial tug, to the same mob. Feeling my English is a bit lacking here and the explanation's gotten weird, hope you got the point.

[Talladarr]

That could be yet another of the numberous computer version glitches, I havn't really experienced that problem on the PS3

[x-president]

The glyphs work really good with firestorm as an alternative to the force spells.  I used Anders to drop paralysis somewhere in the center of my firestorm.  Then I would have him cast repulsion in front of the group so anythign that does get buy, gets knocked back into the firestorm.  It was very effective.

Also you can alwasy use Tempest to hold enemies in the firestorm.  That combo can really pump out some dmg.

Heck I even dropped in Entropic Cloud at times.  Actually that is another really good alternative as well.  Sense it's an aoe that reduces movement and defense and can also stun.


Firestorm can be relly good on it's own, but if you toss in the right spell with it, it can be devistating. 

I would imagine fireball could be worked in a similar way but in reverse.  So drop a lockdown sepll first and then send in the fireball.  Maybe something good for a group of archers.

Modifié par x-president, 26 mars 2011 - 03:41 .

[Roxlimn]

x-president:

Archers are exactly what Fireball is for! It'll kill critters and knock Normals around while doing a little damage. Solid for when you're not doing CCC setups or exploits.

Zan Mura:

You generally want mobs on the edges of the Pull Area, so they end up in the middle after the effect. You don't want to cast it in the middle of an already packed mob - that's not the right way to use it! Mobs general spread themselves around, so it shouldn't be much trouble or take much time to wait for a formation where Pull will clump them up nice and tight.

[Saboteur-6]

The fact that there isn't a Rogue "Grease/Tar bomb CCC" skill is why Fire gets shafted imo.

[Talladarr]

That's a good point

[rumination888]

Fireball is garbage. You need to hit 3 or more enemies to deal slightly more DPS(dps not damage) than auto-attacks. Its not worth the mana, or hassle of dealing with friendly fire.

Firestorm, on the otherhand, is very much worth it. Well, the upgraded version is worth it. The unupgraded version isn't worth the trouble.

[Roxlimn]

I have no trouble finding three targets to hit with Fireball. Sometimes, I hit the entire wave - 5-10 targets. There is no Friendly Fire on anything below Nightmare, and even on Nightmare, you can either just work around it (not that much of a problem, actually) or just spec the Warriors with Fire Wardings.

It's low damage Critter sweeper, but it's quite effective at that role. There's some Force behind it, too, so you could use it to give pause to Normals in a pinch.

That said, Chain Reaction is a greatly superior spell.  If I could take that and still get Elemental Mastery, I'd take it.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 26 mars 2011 - 05:54 .