26 réponses à ce sujet

[baldark77]

Looking for the best mage spec that has dps and defence in mind. 

Modifié par baldark77, 25 mars 2011 - 08:53 .

[TcheQ]

Which mode? nightmare? You need high willpower to use the very good items. Best defense for a mage is to have a good CON score - you can get this by taking spirit healer, but before this you will need force mage and the ability to not get disrupted (forget what it's called, give fortitude 100%)

[SuicidalBaby]

unshakable. he said dps not gimp. stay out of spirit healer.

force mage + primal tree has both defensive measures and incredable damage. get heal and barrier to supplement. horror, glyph of paralysis, hex. youre golden

make sure to use a 5 star staff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 25 mars 2011 - 09:16 .

[baldark77]

ah ok thx

[NightfallAU]

Early game definately grab upgraded heal and then fill out primal next, it is easily the best basic tree.

Stonefist - Timed right you can use this to prevent an enemy mage from healing / using a potion, and then focus them down before they get up. Also gives you some damage against lightning immunes.
Chain Lightning - Awesome damage when combined with a 2H warrior.
Petrify - Probably the longest duration CC.
Tempest - Awesome not because of the damage, but because it interupts every 2 seconds when upgraded, great against archers.

[TcheQ]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

make sure to use a 5 star staff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

duhhhhhhhh

[JanisaryJames]

Spirit Healer/Bloodmage. Period.

If you spec to your mage to spend every bit of mana on party buffs after activating blood magic and spirit healer and have blood magic on you can spam any magic attack you can think of. If you then stack ever piece of equipment you can find that increases the amount of mana you get from each piece of health, its like spells cost nothing at all.

Since your blood mage pulls spells from your health and you can have on the same number of sustained with one mana as with one million mana, you're better off pouring attribute points into Constitution. Since you are already pouring points into Constitution and neglecting Willpower, you can't use traditional mage robes, but heavy armor is governed by Constitution and Strength, so why not put the points in Strength  and Constitution up to the minimum for a set of heavy armor that almost always offers more protection than robes do anyways and then never be knockedback again since you have such a high Strength. (If you spec your attributes first, there's a passive ability for spirit healer that grants 10 free attribute points to constitution, making the investment for this build significantly less) You then pour whatever points you have left into magic and use the best staff you can (many good staffs don't even have a minimum magic restriction).

So, now you have a mage that is immune to physical force, greater armor than any conventional mage, buffs your entire party free of any mana cost, spams spells for almost free, radiates constant healing to your entire party, regens health faster than most any hoard can suck it out of you, draws enemy attention almost infinitely better than most other builds of any class, can heal your entire party from dead to full health with a single button press, and just looks damn cool wearing heavy armor. This build literally can fill the roles of healer, buffing mage, tank, and DPS/offensive mage all at once.

This build plays itself on Hard if you activate all your sustaineds at once and use basic staff attacks. Simply deactivate Spirit Healing when you have enough Health stocked up to use offensive skills like Hemmorage if you want to get through fights faster.

Just remember to activate Bloodmagic before activating Spirit Healer (as bloodmagic is flagged as hostile magic) and its like having cruise control on the entire way.

[SuicidalBaby]

JanisaryJames wrote...

Spirit Healer/Bloodmage. Period.

If you spec to your mage to spend every bit of mana on party buffs after activating blood magic and spirit healer and have blood magic on you can spam any magic attack you can think of. If you then stack ever piece of equipment you can find that increases the amount of mana you get from each piece of health, its like spells cost nothing at all.

Since your blood mage pulls spells from your health and you can have on the same number of sustained with one mana as with one million mana, you're better off pouring attribute points into Constitution. Since you are already pouring points into Constitution and neglecting Willpower, you can't use traditional mage robes, but heavy armor is governed by Constitution and Strength, so why not put the points in Strength  and Constitution up to the minimum for a set of heavy armor that almost always offers more protection than robes do anyways and then never be knockedback again since you have such a high Strength. (If you spec your attributes first, there's a passive ability for spirit healer that grants 10 free attribute points to constitution, making the investment for this build significantly less) You then pour whatever points you have left into magic and use the best staff you can (many good staffs don't even have a minimum magic restriction).

So, now you have a mage that is immune to physical force, greater armor than any conventional mage, buffs your entire party free of any mana cost, spams spells for almost free, radiates constant healing to your entire party, regens health faster than most any hoard can suck it out of you, draws enemy attention almost infinitely better than most other builds of any class, can heal your entire party from dead to full health with a single button press, and just looks damn cool wearing heavy armor. This build literally can fill the roles of healer, buffing mage, tank, and DPS/offensive mage all at once.

This build plays itself on Hard if you activate all your sustaineds at once and use basic staff attacks. Simply deactivate Spirit Healing when you have enough Health stocked up to use offensive skills like Hemmorage if you want to get through fights faster.

Just remember to activate Bloodmagic before activating Spirit Healer (as bloodmagic is flagged as hostile magic) and its like having cruise control on the entire way.

no one should take any of this advice. its exploiting known bugs.

[jones0901]

spirit healer/force mage is really good. you can slow everyone, lay down aoe spells, and use your single target spells or staff + a ranged rogue to knock out low health enemies while your tank picks up aggro. plus you get unshakeable and the plus 10 con from spirit healer.....following that, when mobs spawn, you run into the slow zone, or pop it again.

[JanisaryJames]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

no one should take any of this advice. its exploiting known bugs.

Which part is a known bug? If using the game's mechanics well within their predetermined perameters as set by the developers in creative ways is exploiting then by all means I'm a cheater, but please clarify for us all what you mean. There's not a single step I posted there that exploits any bugs or glitches, known or otherwise.

In the future, if you're going to throw around accusations, please be a little more specific with your finger pointing.

[SuicidalBaby]

JanisaryJames wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...

no one should take any of this advice. its exploiting known bugs.

Which part is a known bug? If using the game's mechanics well within their predetermined perameters as set by the developers in creative ways is exploiting then by all means I'm a cheater, but please clarify for us all what you mean. There's not a single step I posted there that exploits any bugs or glitches, known or otherwise.

In the future, if you're going to throw around accusations, please be a little more specific with your finger pointing.

Healing Aura
Type: Spirit Healer Effect
Type: Sustained
Size: 6m
Activation: 30%
Cooldown: 10s
Requires: Level 7
Description: While this mode is active, the mage can use spirit healer spells and becomes a locus for restorative energies, increasing the natural healing of all allies within the aura. However, the mage cannot cast any offensive spell for the duration of the effect.

Just remember to activate Bloodmagic before activating Spirit Healer (as bloodmagic is flagged as hostile magic) and its like having cruise control on the entire way.

Which makes every action taken after that an exploit which would include everything except taking strength, wearing armor, and benifiting from passive abilities. So as far as those 3 items are concerned, youre correct that I should be more specific.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 25 mars 2011 - 08:59 .

[JanisaryJames]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

JanisaryJames wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...

no one should take any of this advice. its exploiting known bugs.

Which part is a known bug? If using the game's mechanics well within their predetermined perameters as set by the developers in creative ways is exploiting then by all means I'm a cheater, but please clarify for us all what you mean. There's not a single step I posted there that exploits any bugs or glitches, known or otherwise.

In the future, if you're going to throw around accusations, please be a little more specific with your finger pointing.

Healing Aura
Type: Spirit Healer Effect
Type: Sustained
Size: 6m
Activation: 30%
Cooldown: 10s
Requires: Level 7
Description: While this mode is active, the mage can use spirit healer spells and becomes a locus for restorative energies, increasing the natural healing of all allies within the aura. However, the mage cannot cast any offensive spell for the duration of the effect.

Just remember to activate Bloodmagic before activating Spirit Healer (as bloodmagic is flagged as hostile magic) and its like having cruise control on the entire way.

Which makes every action taken after that an exploit which would include everything except taking strength, wearing armor, and benifiting from passive abilities. So as far as those 3 items are concerned, youre correct that I should be more specific.

Where in any of that did I say that you could cast offensive skills of any kind while Healing Aura is active? I specifically stated that you should cast Bloodmagic PRIOR to casting Healing Aura because Healing Aura works perfectly fine and is not bugged at all from what I could tell. If anything, the fact that Bloodmagic is flagged as offensive magic is a glitch seeing as Bloodmagic itself hurts no one but the user. I'm not sure about you, but I'd hardly call that any form of attack. 

What you're calling an exploitation of a bug would be more aptly described as a work-around for a glitch in the bloodmagic mechanics that fixes an error in its coding. Don't try to crucify me for fixing the game.

[SuicidalBaby]

fixing lol thats rich

I suppose the fact I can use every sustained ability beyond 100% mana was intended as well? Its called a bug. Blood magic is self-destructive, thats why its flagged hostile. That is not my interpretation, that is the official description. Using healing aura and blood magic at the same time was clearly never intended.

As a single player game how you choose to play is your business, but dont suggest exploits as if they are credible tactics or statagy to those seeking advice. You end up cheating them out of the experience they paid for.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 25 mars 2011 - 09:28 .

[JanisaryJames]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

fixing lol thats rich

I suppose the fact I can use every sustained ability beyond 100% mana was intended as well? Its called a bug. Blood magic is self-destructive, thats why its flagged hostile. That is not my interpretation, that is the official description. Using healing aura and blood magic at the same time was clearly never intended.

As a single player game how you choose to play is your business, but dont suggest exploits as if they are credible tactics or statagy to those seeking advice. You end up cheating them out of the experience they paid for.

Actually that was not made clear to me at all. You liberal interpretations of the definition of "hostile, " offensive," and "exploit" also aren't very clear. No where has it ever been stated that Bloodmagic and Healing Aura were never intended to be used in conjunction with one another. Until you can show me where it has been written by the developers that these two were never intended to be used together, I'll have to ask that you try to stay on topic rather than bashing other people's builds that don't follow your liberal interpretations of the parameters of the game. If you really insist on continuing this discussion, feel free to PM me or make another thread and PM me a link to it. This is a thread for submitting mage builds, not debating the morality of other people's builds and flaming them if you don't agree. This just simply is not the place for arguements, debates, or bashing of other people's ideas.

Modifié par JanisaryJames, 25 mars 2011 - 11:03 .

[SuicidalBaby]

This is exactly the place for such discussions.

Blood magic is considered hostile by the developers. Healing aura has restrictions against using hostile magic put in place by the developers. You dont see the simple logic there?

Liberal interpretations would be your assumptions about what should be "fixed."

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 25 mars 2011 - 11:25 .

[JanisaryJames]

 This is neither gameplay nor strategy and by no stretch of the imagination are we discussing the best build for a mage. Blood magic is not considered hostile according to the English language

Dictionary.com says...

of·fen·sive (uh-fen-siv)
pertaining to offense or attack

The sustained ability "Blood Magic" is not an attack, and the only people it seems to offend is Anders and yourself. 

General Discussion is that way.

Our discussion in this thread is over.

Modifié par JanisaryJames, 25 mars 2011 - 11:49 .

[SuicidalBaby]

The sustained ability "Blood Magic" is not an attack

Making yourself bleed out and damaging yourself everytime you cast a spell isn't a hostile act against yourself?
You are right, it is over, you are wrong. Take your liberal ball of interpretation and go home.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 25 mars 2011 - 11:50 .

[tWyZtD7]

While I don't exactly want to jump in the middle of this, and both of you have valid points, lets look at it this way...

You disagree that bloodmagic and spirit healer is wrongful to use together because the types of spells and their effects work "against" if you will, each other. Yet you agree that putting talents into attributes otherwise undefined by a mage, seeing as there isn't an arcane warrior build in this game. In a liberal sense this could be taken as taking away from the game because you are clearly using items and stats that aren't defined by the role of a mage. Mage's as per the games structure are defined by the use of magic and willpower while wearing cloth items that boost these attributes and their magic damage while offering little defense.

On another note, you call this an exploitation and glitch in his build, but it really isn't. A glitch or exploit or feature that was otherwise not intended for use by the developers. Usually because of a development bug in the games creation (like the infinite xp/gold glitch or infinite armor glitch). Those are exploits and glitches because it is an unintended malfunction in the game that can be taken advantage of.

In reality, all he did was find a strategic way to otherwise take two opposing specs and combine them into a formidable build. Since spirit healer technically only restricts the use of spells in the conventional sense of those that are destructive and make use of a mana pool (elemental, nature, spirit, etc). Since blood magic isn't considered a conventional spell and instead takes it's cost from a seperate pool (being a specialization), it fails to fall under an exploit since everything in it's build is legitimate.

While sure you may not agree with the build since it can, when done right, clearly overpower a player and take away the challenge of a game, it is in no way an exploit. That's no different than saying the same about a blood mage who takes sustained spells for the party while using blood magic outside of the spirit healer spec. It is clearly an intended and optional build for those who can piece it together. And since he isn't using a bug to cast bloodmagic DURING his healing aura, there is nothing wrong about it.

The true strength of a blood magic build is in actuality being able to utilize your mana pool to help maintain your party as you grow in need of leeching their health and endangering them to fuel your own dps. And if you still want to argue, if the developers really didn't want you to utilize your mana pool in a blood magic spec, they would have made it inaccessible upon taking the specialization.  All it does is restrict mana after you enter the aura, not before.  So again, no exploit, just strategy.

But that's my two cents.  Have at it what you will.  Time for me to go see Sucker Punch.

Modifié par tWyZtD7, 25 mars 2011 - 11:58 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Can you activate blood magic with healing aura activated? No.
Should it be considered equal if done in reverse?

Healing Aura + Blood Magic = Only Healing Aura
Blood Magic + Healing Aura = Both

maybe one of the results wasn't intended.... ummm.

This is not a discussion on wether or not the build works on an exploit, which it does.  It's a discussion on the merits of giving a build designed around an exploit to someone looking for legitimate advice on how to procede with his character.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 26 mars 2011 - 12:47 .

[kayangelus]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

This is not a discussion on wether or not the build works on an exploit, which it does

Actually, that is exactly what you guys seem to be discussion. You believe that the build works on an exploit. The other side believes it is a work around for a bug in the game. And god knows, this game has plenty of bugs, so just because something works one way doesn't mean that was how it was intended.

And for the record, claiming the argument to be about something different than what you were arguing about, and then stating that your claim is an undisputed fact is a very good way to not convince anyone who is paying attention to the argument.

[SuicidalBaby]

Or very good since my arguement is the only one that actually holds up to any scrutiny.  This isn't rocket science.  It's basic logic.  One item is labeled hostile magic.  One item says you can not use hostile magic in association with this ability while it is active.  He works his way around it in order to have his spec work.  It's pretty god damn simple.  But then, I don't expect someone who types 5 paragraphs without having a point to anything said in those paragraphs to understand.  You did a whole lot of typing without saying a damn thing.

I could give a rats ass how he plays his game. My point has always been that providing a build which works its way around game mechanics in order to work for someone seeking a viable, legitimate way to play the game robs that person of the experience they paid money for. How I choose to debate that is inconsequencial.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 26 mars 2011 - 04:53 .

[TcheQ]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Or very good since my arguement is the only one that actually holds up to any scrutiny.  This isn't rocket science.  It's basic logic.  One item is labeled hostile magic.  One item says you can not use hostile magic in association with this ability while it is active.  He works his way around it in order to have his spec work.  It's pretty god damn simple.  But then, I don't expect someone who types 5 paragraphs without having a point to anything said in those paragraphs to understand.  You did a whole lot of typing without saying a damn thing.

I could give a rats ass how he plays his game. My point has always been that providing a build which works its way around game mechanics in order to work for someone seeking a viable, legitimate way to play the game robs that person of the experience they paid money for. How I choose to debate that is inconsequencial.

For someone who can't spell their own name, you sure do type a lot.

[SuicidalBaby]

Sorry, that suppose to be relevant to the conversation? You have trouble doing that.  Tell me something, if someone were to say, come to your job and ask for a Burger and Fries, would you serve them a hotdog and salad?



The name was taken, I made do.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 26 mars 2011 - 07:00 .

[Thunderfudge]

Ok, I'll lay out my interpretation of the two arguments here so that everyone can see what I'm basing my opinion on.


Argument 1:

 - Healing Aura prevents you from casting any hostile spells while it is active.
 - Blood Magic is a sustainable marked as hosile.

So

 - Using Healing Aura should disable the use of Blood Magic (which it does).
 - Using Blood Magic should disable the use of Healing Aura (which it doesn't).

To elaborate: The mage should not be able to cast a spell that restrics one they already have up, without deactivating it first.


Argument 2:

 - Healing Aura supresses the mage's ability to cast a hostile spell.
 - Blood Magic is a hostile spell, sustained by reserving 50% of the mage's mana.

So

- Using Healing Aura should prevent the mage from then casting Blood Magic, since it is marked as hostile.
- Using Blood Magic should not limit the mage's ability to cast Healing Aura, since Healing Aura only restricts spells that are cast after it.

To elaborate: The mage already has Blood Magic up. They are no longer actively casting it - it is being sustained by a mana pool reduction. Therefore, Healing Aura will not interfere.


My opinion is this:
This argument will not come to a conclusion until Bioware specifically states how the 'Blood Magic' spell works.
 - If the mage can cast from their mana or their blood any time and at will, then I agree with Argument 1. Every time the mage decides to cast with their blood would interfere with Healing Aura. The 50% mana reservation is purely for game balance purposes.
- If the mage actually does have to sustain some sort of magic that forces them to use their own bloodwhen they cast a spell, then I agree with Argument 2. The mage no longer has to worry about Blood Magic (other than to deactivate it), as it's off being sustained by the mana they sacrificed. This would not interfere with Healing Aura.

It's a fantasy world created by Bioware, and we're arguing over something that they have not made clear. While some story evidence suggests that Argument 1 is more correct, there is nothing solid and I can't really provide a proper opinion.
This is an argument over the laws of magic in the world of Dragon Age, not the game mechanics.

Modifié par Thunderfudge, 26 mars 2011 - 07:03 .

[TcheQ]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Sorry, that suppose to be relevant to the conversation? You have trouble doing that.  Tell me something, if someone were to say, come to your job and ask for a Burger and Fries, would you serve them a hotdog and salad?



The name was taken, I made do.

Point ,set match.  You took 100 words to say what six words could.  And decided to buffer not with meaningful information or amusing banter, but with bland repetitive filler.  You criticise others for using useless words, not making any sense, and taking the thread off topic, yet you do it yourself constantly.

Hypocrite.