145 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

DirtyFinger wrote...

Why don't templars care that you're a mage?

Because Hawke looks fine.

[Vosoros]

Hummm, a circle mage envoy acompanys some poor refugees who are escaping the blight...nope, what possible reason could their be? Seriously, using magice in this fight F-C sould merely have have a Seeker begin an investigation. And once more i have an apt argument for the need for mages to have a staff fighting talent tree!

Problem-Solution...job done!

[Merced652]

Your awesome button doesn't work as a tranquil.

[JamieCOTC]

This will go down as the "Akuze" of DA, only on a much bigger scale.

[fchopin]

And what is even more ridiculous is the Templers took Bethany away and Hawke just stood there like an idiot and did nothing while fighting everyone and protecting all other mages.

Hawke did not even attempt a rescue or even care about Bethany after she went to the circle.

[F-C]

Vosoros wrote...

Hummm, a circle mage envoy acompanys some poor refugees who are escaping the blight...nope, what possible reason could their be? Seriously, using magice in this fight F-C sould merely have have a Seeker begin an investigation. And once more i have an apt argument for the need for mages to have a staff fighting talent tree!

Problem-Solution...job done!

if you were a circle envoy you would be forced to report to the circle upon arrival and would not be left sitting on the docks like the bum refugee you are.

that scenario just doesnt work, sorry.



easiest way to fix it:

after fight, guard freaks out and runs off saying hes going to get the chantry.
do contact quest to gain entrance
contact tells you he paid off guard to be quiet and it will be fine


that would have taken them like a whole extra couple minutes and it would have made sense then.

[F-C]

fchopin wrote...

And what is even more ridiculous is the Templers took Bethany away and Hawke just stood there like an idiot and did nothing while fighting everyone and protecting all other mages.

Hawke did not even attempt a rescue or even care about Bethany after she went to the circle.

in his defense, bethany asked him not to do anything so he was respecting her wishes, and bethany appears to actually like her life in the circle once she gets there, if you bothered reading the letter she mails you.

[Vosoros]

Just had a though...

With robes and staff's not being the exclusive donmain of the mage (academics like Aldos in the Cousland library in Origins being a prime example), would such arguments be apt for the healer-type mage?

I fear not and thus I argue this is a debate of obtuse spell usage. Nevertheless, there have been future solutions presented to provide DA3 with more bredth and intrigue when playing as a mage.

Seems no sense in quibbling about what you can't change in a game that's been made...but there seems sense in providing solutions for the team to use in the future!

[fchopin]

F-C wrote...

fchopin wrote...

And what is even more ridiculous is the Templers took Bethany away and Hawke just stood there like an idiot and did nothing while fighting everyone and protecting all other mages.

Hawke did not even attempt a rescue or even care about Bethany after she went to the circle.

in his defense, bethany asked him not to do anything so he was respecting her wishes, and bethany appears to actually like her life in the circle once she gets there, if you bothered reading the letter she mails you.

And that is also the reason we did not get an option to do anything different because there was no choice in the matter, Bioware's story so they can disregard anything that was said before in the game. They should just make films so there is only one option.

[Deified Data]

The same reason they didn't bat an eye at Morrigan in Origins, despite her going out of her way to out herself as an apostate. It's not as if she was a Warden - she was fair game, but the Chantry ignored her for the sake of having a badass mage in your party.

Suspension of disbelief is essential, here.

[DirtyFinger]

Deified Data wrote...

The same reason they didn't bat an eye at Morrigan in Origins, despite her going out of her way to out herself as an apostate. It's not as if she was a Warden - she was fair game, but the Chantry ignored her for the sake of having a badass mage in your party.

Suspension of disbelief is essential, here.

Morrigan was travelling with a warden. If needed, the warden could even conscript any templars that would give lip. And besides: There was a blight going on.


In Kirkwall, absolutely nothing is happening that is distracting templars from their witch hunt. Even the violent qunari incident was over within a day.

You can't even compare those cases.

Nah, what we see here is the difference between a good story and a bad story.

[iTIMMEH]

Deified Data wrote...

The same reason they didn't bat an eye at Morrigan in Origins, despite her going out of her way to out herself as an apostate. It's not as if she was a Warden - she was fair game, but the Chantry ignored her for the sake of having a badass mage in your party.

Suspension of disbelief is essential, here.

How do the chantry know she isn't a warden? Did she say "Hey guys, I know I'm working with the wardens but I'm not one of them, dare you to come get me". In Origins you're tasked with assembling an army to protect life in Ferelden from the Blight and Archdemon. I think that takes precedence. There are reasonable explanations for the situation.

In Dragon Age II you are a refugee with no status, no task to save the world as we know it. You're nobody . Kirkwall's templars are stated to be extremely intolerant of apostates, going so far as to kill or make tranquil anyone who causes trouble.

No amount of rationalisation will change the fact that this is poor storytelling. And fact it is. What next, are we going to be treated to some explanation of why civilians and guards completely ignore heated battles occuring inches from them?

[Carlthestrange]

Would you have preferred not being able to play as a Mage?

[Robhuzz]

Carlthestrange wrote...

Would you have preferred not being able to play as a Mage?

This. Imagine if BioWare said: You won't be able to play as a mage because of the story. The End. I'm sure there would be a lot of unhappy people around here.

Anyways, the templars pretend not to care because when hawke first came into kirkwall they just felt his epicness (at least my hawke radiated with epicness) that told them: If I attack this guy or his sister I'm gonna get myself killed. So naturally they just left hawke and his family alone for the most part.

[AngelicMachinery]

fchopin wrote...

And what is even more ridiculous is the Templers took Bethany away and Hawke just stood there like an idiot and did nothing while fighting everyone and protecting all other mages.

Hawke did not even attempt a rescue or even care about Bethany after she went to the circle.

Obviously he was jealous of her leet magic skills.

[iTIMMEH]

Carlthestrange wrote...

Would you have preferred not being able to play as a Mage?

Ugh. No, I (as I'm sure most others with similar feelings) would prefer to have some explanation consistent with the world Bioware created as to why Hawke and his companions are a special exception. 'Because the gameplay demands it' isn't what I expect from a story-driven game.

Take Anders, much is made initially of how he is hiding from the templars yet once he joins up with Hawke he happily strolls around casting spells with no concern for the consequences. the gameplay and plot seem to take place in two different realms.

[JamieCOTC]

Deified Data wrote...

The same reason they didn't bat an eye at Morrigan in Origins, despite her going out of her way to out herself as an apostate. It's not as if she was a Warden - she was fair game, but the Chantry ignored her for the sake of having a badass mage in your party.

Suspension of disbelief is essential, here.

In combat, Origins is just a guilty, but in Lothering Mage Warden can actually tell Ser Bryon that s/he is a mage.  Morrigan adds a snarky, "As am I."  Ser Bryon notes that he has bigger fish to fry.  Click on the Templar right outside the door of the Mother in Lothering and he says something to Morrigan about looking ... odd.  In Origins, you play as the Warden and, sort of like the Spectres, you are essentially above the law in a time of the blight.  In Awakening, the Templars come after Anders, but can't touch the Warden Commander if s/he is a mage.  In other words, it makes sense in Origins as there is a much bigger threat.  In DA2 the whole story is about the political structure of mages and Templars.  Breaking the lore of the main story they are trying to tell is just plain bad writing. 

There's suspension of disbelief and there's hanging it by the neck until dead.  IMO, BW hung it until it's flesh fell from its bones. 

[Merced652]

Robhuzz wrote...

Carlthestrange wrote...

Would you have preferred not being able to play as a Mage?

This. Imagine if BioWare said: You won't be able to play as a mage because of the story. The End. I'm sure there would be a lot of unhappy people around here.

Anyways, the templars pretend not to care because when hawke first came into kirkwall they just felt his epicness (at least my hawke radiated with epicness) that told them: If I attack this guy or his sister I'm gonna get myself killed. So naturally they just left hawke and his family alone for the most part.

Mot much different since i can't be a elf or a dwarf. They cut my opotions by two thirds to fit their story, why not cut the other aspect one third as well?

[Amyante]

They didn't touch Morrigan in DA:O because for all they know, she was a Grey Warden as well. Given that he/she was calling the shots in the party it would even make sense.

When he arrives, Hawke is just the same loser nobody refugee everybody else is. No titles, no nothing that makes him stand out among the rest. There is NO reason for him to be allowed to cast magic in the city, though it could still be written off as a cosplaying thing if he just walked around in his mage robes.

There is also no reason why you wouldn't be able to play a Mage even with these restrictions on magic. There'd just be a quest involved to get a permit for it, to cover for both Hawke and his companions during their stay. Throw in a "Hey, i'll help you get this permit without having to wait in the gallows for six months if you do this thing for me." and you've pretty much got this problem tackled.

Instead, they're using 'suspension of disbelief' which is just a crappy attempt to hide not needing to bother with class-based dialogues beyond a line or two and a handful of words.

[AngerManagementTraining]

The entire reason for locking up mages is stupid to begin with. They're no more powerful than templars or heck the average thief on the street. If they flip out and turn into a rage demon they're still rocking less HP and less DPS than a lot of the thieves, guards or templars on the street. The whole plot of the game is a giant black hole. It doesn't help that there is only one companion that isn't obsessed, flaky, insane or all three.

[88mphSlayer]

fchopin wrote...

F-C wrote...

fchopin wrote...

And what is even more ridiculous is the Templers took Bethany away and Hawke just stood there like an idiot and did nothing while fighting everyone and protecting all other mages.

Hawke did not even attempt a rescue or even care about Bethany after she went to the circle.

in his defense, bethany asked him not to do anything so he was respecting her wishes, and bethany appears to actually like her life in the circle once she gets there, if you bothered reading the letter she mails you.

And that is also the reason we did not get an option to do anything different because there was no choice in the matter, Bioware's story so they can disregard anything that was said before in the game. They should just make films so there is only one option.

yeah it is strange how in a game like this that is so loose on the main plot that they wouldn't let the player choose to be a "renegade vigilante" so-to-speak and break into the circle or whatever, it wouldn't be any more difficult to make than any of the other side quests in the game

the only thing i can think of is that they wanted Bethany there when you have to pick a side, why that was so necessary they couldn't replace Bethany with another mage in your party or a mage you helped in act 1 is weird

[Medhia Nox]

Because they're oppressive, evil, vile, ignorant, prejudice, stupid, rapists - who torture, kill, maim, slaughter, kick, spank, and take candy away from mages every chance they get.

Except your Hawke evidently - Meredith's actually totally cool with letting him run free. Oh, and all those mages sneaking out of the tower... oh, and all the Tevinter mages... oh, and...

*shrugs* But hey, everybody has to hate somebody.The Templars aren't as bad as everybody cries.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 25 mars 2011 - 07:26 .

[Serpieri Nei]

DirtyFinger wrote...

You wear robes.
You have a magic staff.
You shoot fire.
You cast spells.
You use blood magic (some do).
You kill templars in droves.
All mages in Kirkwall are either prisoners of the circle or on the run - You have a mansion.

Complete story fail.

Because this game was rushed, and the level of quality has dropped since DA:O. So keep your expectations very low on future Bioware products.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 25 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[88mphSlayer]

AngerManagementTraining wrote...

The entire reason for locking up mages is stupid to begin with. They're no more powerful than templars or heck the average thief on the street. If they flip out and turn into a rage demon they're still rocking less HP and less DPS than a lot of the thieves, guards or templars on the street. The whole plot of the game is a giant black hole. It doesn't help that there is only one companion that isn't obsessed, flaky, insane or all three.

well it also doesn't make sense that when everybody is standing there when the _ explodes that my warrior can't just wipe everybody out, thus taking care of the entire city's mage vs. templar issue in one feel swoop

Medhia Nox wrote...

Because they're oppressive, evil, vile, ignorant, prejudice, stupid, rapists - who torture, kill, maim, slaughter, kick, spank, and take candy away from mages every chance they get.

Except your Hawke evidently - Meredith's actually totally cool with letting him run free. Oh, and all those mages sneaking out of the tower... oh, and all the Tevinter mages... oh, and...

*shrugs* But hey, everybody has to hate somebody.The Templars aren't as bad as everybody cries.

i sided with the templars because all the mages in the game end up using blood magic anyways, and because it was obvious the mages had no intention of keeping themselves in check


it reminds me of the witcher, i sided with the order of the flaming rose because at least they don't terrorize and slaughter civilians for kicks even if the scoiatael are fighting for freedom

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 25 mars 2011 - 07:37 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Carlthestrange wrote...

Would you have preferred not being able to play as a Mage?

Why is it that so many people seem to think this way and assume that just because it wasn't approached in a very plausible fashion that the only other solution is to remove the chance for the conflict to ocurr  in the first place?