39 réponses à ce sujet

[Jassper]

I really don't get why the Q stayed in Kerk for 3 years and never once asked for their Relic, or did I miss something? If they knew it was there and they knew who had it - why didn't they demand Isabela from the start? Or at least the book?

I also don't get why when I let the Slaver (Isabela quest) go, Fenris says nothing and no rival point. If I kill the slaver, I still get no friend points.

After finishing Fenris quest and kill his master I got 15 rival points - WTF? I can only assume it was because I told him to let his sister live. But still he seems like an ungratfull little ******.

[Jassper]

I also don't understand why every mage is a blood mage or possessed. They make it really hard to side with the Mages as it does seem they are dammed.

[Jean]

Jassper wrote...

I also don't understand why every mage is a blood mage or possessed. They make it really hard to side with the Mages as it does seem they are dammed.

Answered your own question.

[Jassper]

Batteries wrote...

Jassper wrote...

I also don't understand why every mage is a blood mage or possessed. They make it really hard to side with the Mages as it does seem they are dammed.

Answered your own question.

So you are saying they are truely damed? Then it doesn't make sense for a player to be a Mage. Unless each game ended with you being killed by Templaers as the abominations took over.

[Vhalkyrie]

Jassper wrote...

I also don't understand why every mage is a blood mage or possessed. They make it really hard to side with the Mages as it does seem they are dammed.

It's not supposed to be a clearcut, easy decision, black or white.  The Templars are corrupt.  The Mages are corrupt.  Meredith is too draconian.  Orsino is too soft.  Kirkwall is a really messed up, mismanaged place.  So chose a side.  They are both right, and wrong.

[Maria Caliban]

Jassper wrote...

I also don't get why when I let the Slaver (Isabela quest) go, Fenris says nothing and no rival point. If I kill the slaver, I still get no friend points.

Have you already maxed friendship/rivalry?

[Johnsen1972]

I dont understand why my apostate mage can run around in Kirkwall and kill templars. Logic is not a strength in this game, isnt it?

[Heidenreich]

Because every apostate mage is running around killing templars. Thus why the templars are emo-raging about the mages.

By the end of act2 It's made very clear that Meridith KNOWS you're an apostate, and knows you're protected by a very tough crowd of folks. Then you go and save the day, and she can't touch you, for fear of causing riots in the streets. ;p

[Jassper]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Jassper wrote...

I also don't understand why every mage is a blood mage or possessed. They make it really hard to side with the Mages as it does seem they are dammed.

It's not supposed to be a clearcut, easy decision, black or white.  The Templars are corrupt.  The Mages are corrupt.  Meredith is too draconian.  Orsino is too soft.  Kirkwall is a really messed up, mismanaged place.  So chose a side.  They are both right, and wrong.

I know it's not supposed to be clear, but there is also nothing there to make me want to choose. I see no reason why I can't just walk away.

BUT.
If every mage will become an abomination - then there is only one real choice, even if the Templars are corrupt. I just feel it is too one sided in that respect. They should have made some of the mages free from "The Dark Side" that would make the choice a bit mor difficult.

[Vhalkyrie]

Jassper wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Jassper wrote...

I also don't understand why every mage is a blood mage or possessed. They make it really hard to side with the Mages as it does seem they are dammed.

It's not supposed to be a clearcut, easy decision, black or white.  The Templars are corrupt.  The Mages are corrupt.  Meredith is too draconian.  Orsino is too soft.  Kirkwall is a really messed up, mismanaged place.  So chose a side.  They are both right, and wrong.

I know it's not supposed to be clear, but there is also nothing there to make me want to choose. I see no reason why I can't just walk away.

BUT.
If every mage will become an abomination - then there is only one real choice, even if the Templars are corrupt. I just feel it is too one sided in that respect. They should have made some of the mages free from "The Dark Side" that would make the choice a bit mor difficult.

You didn't have Bethany?  Did you think the "Tranquil Solution" was cruel and unethical?  Did you let Alain turn himself into the templars?  Did you spare the lives of the mages during the end battle who turned themselves instead of becoming abominations?

Every mage doesn't become an abomination.  Bethany doesn't.  Anders doesn't.  While Anders does something else completely appalling, he might have been able to achieve the same effect by becoming a blood mage, but he didn't. 

That is the point of the Templars being corrupt.  I sided with the Templars not because they were good and holy knights in shining armor, nor did I think Meredith was completely in the right, but because the mages unleashed will become magisters like the Tevinter Imperium.

I've played the game both pro-mage and pro-templar.  Both choices were uncomfortable, and I disliked either choice for various reasons.  But that's why I love the game.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 25 mars 2011 - 01:33 .

[SurelyForth]

Jassper wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Jassper wrote...

I also don't understand why every mage is a blood mage or possessed. They make it really hard to side with the Mages as it does seem they are dammed.

It's not supposed to be a clearcut, easy decision, black or white.  The Templars are corrupt.  The Mages are corrupt.  Meredith is too draconian.  Orsino is too soft.  Kirkwall is a really messed up, mismanaged place.  So chose a side.  They are both right, and wrong.

I know it's not supposed to be clear, but there is also nothing there to make me want to choose. I see no reason why I can't just walk away.

BUT.
If every mage will become an abomination - then there is only one real choice, even if the Templars are corrupt. I just feel it is too one sided in that respect. They should have made some of the mages free from "The Dark Side" that would make the choice a bit mor difficult.

There are mages who are free from The Dark Side (Bethany, Alain, that virgin with the Orlesian accent, the mages who surrender to the templars during the Rite). The issue is that the game has pretty much every mage you meet backed into a corner when you meet them and because Kirkwall is on some sort of Hellmouth, it means that their desperation makes them ripe for possession. There are several points in the game where I get a sense that the mage isn't summoning a demon, it's just that the mage has been pushed so far and there's a demon just on the other side of the Veil who is able to step right in and take over.

So it becomes a matter of deciding what you want to blame- do you blame the mages for being susceptible to possession? That's the crux of the argument that Cullen has for why mages should be feared and cage. Or do you blame the templars for pushing them so far, or keeping them in conditions that only exacerbate their weakness to demons?

Modifié par SurelyForth, 25 mars 2011 - 01:35 .

[conjur]

Not EVERY Mage is an abomination. Just most Apostates. As Meredith turns the Kirkwall circle more and more in to a concentration camp, more and more mages turn to Blood magic as a means to escape.

[Sabriana]

@ OP
If your friendship/rivalry is maxed out, it locks and will not change again. If you are far enough along on the rivalry path, you'll get rivalry points only for gifts/decisions/etc. meaning the friendship path is locked, more or less.

As for decisions, my Hawke would've loved nothing better than to show BOTH Orsino and Meredith the stinky finger, collar Fenris and her Mabari and get the he!! out of Dodge. Let them clean up their own bloody mess, hangdangit.

[Beerfish]

Jassper wrote...

I really don't get why the Q stayed in Kerk for 3 years and never once asked for their Relic, or did I miss something? If they knew it was there and they knew who had it - why didn't they demand Isabela from the start? Or at least the book?

Because the Qunari are pompous blowhards that love to condemn everything and everyone other than themsleves (hiding behind 'the Qun') and in fact are very very incompetant and just massive hypocrites.

[dragonflight288]

The Qunari are trying to follow the Qun, but they refuse to be clear to anyone about their intentions. The viscount, the templars or the guards. The Arishok believes that tracking down the relic is his responsibility alone and will not even consider asking for help.

[Vhalkyrie]

Jassper wrote...

I really don't get why the Q stayed in Kerk for 3 years and never once asked for their Relic, or did I miss something? If they knew it was there and they knew who had it - why didn't they demand Isabela from the start? Or at least the book?

This is somewhat explained during the Blackpowder Quest.  Arishok does not give the dwarf the powder because he got Hawke to do his dirty work.  He wasn't tough enough to do it himself, thus, under the Qun he was unworthy.

The Book was under his protection, and it was stolen from him.  Under the Qun, only he could retrieve it.  He could not ask anyone for help.  Isabela was hiding from the Qunari - if you ever tried to approach the compound, she would exit the party.

[Jassper]

I know not all in the game are abominations - yet. Bethony didn't live long enough to become one, I don't know what happens if you don't take her to the Deeproads other than she is taken by the Templars, but I'm guessing she is made tranquil. The game sure does make it sound as if any who aren't abominations - will become one given the time.

I have nothing that points otherwise, that is except Flemith. I'm hoping she turns out to be a different side of magic and not just another abomination or deamon.

I don't agree with the Templars methods and if there is a chance that a Mage can live a life free of becoming an abomination then they need to be allowed that chance, but if not then genocide is the only long term answer, after all the circle is nothing more than a prison. Allowing you to live until you turn.

[Vhalkyrie]

Jassper wrote...

I know not all in the game are abominations - yet. Bethony didn't live long enough to become one, I don't know what happens if you don't take her to the Deeproads other than she is taken by the Templars, but I'm guessing she is made tranquil. The game sure does make it sound as if any who aren't abominations - will become one given the time.

I have nothing that points otherwise, that is except Flemith. I'm hoping she turns out to be a different side of magic and not just another abomination or deamon.

I don't agree with the Templars methods and if there is a chance that a Mage can live a life free of becoming an abomination then they need to be allowed that chance, but if not then genocide is the only long term answer, after all the circle is nothing more than a prison. Allowing you to live until you turn.

Well, I'm not going to give away the Bethany story with spoilers unless you want it, but there is a way she can live if you take her in the deep roads, and she doesn't die if she's left behind either.

[Jassper]

Sabriana wrote...

@ OP
If your friendship/rivalry is maxed out, it locks and will not change again. If you are far enough along on the rivalry path, you'll get rivalry points only for gifts/decisions/etc. meaning the friendship path is locked, more or less.

Nope, it wasn't maxed

[SurelyForth]

Jassper wrote...

I know not all in the game are abominations - yet. Bethony didn't live long enough to become one, I don't know what happens if you don't take her to the Deeproads other than she is taken by the Templars, but I'm guessing she is made tranquil. The game sure does make it sound as if any who aren't abominations - will become one given the time.

I have nothing that points otherwise, that is except Flemith. I'm hoping she turns out to be a different side of magic and not just another abomination or deamon.

I don't agree with the Templars methods and if there is a chance that a Mage can live a life free of becoming an abomination then they need to be allowed that chance, but if not then genocide is the only long term answer, after all the circle is nothing more than a prison. Allowing you to live until you turn.

Bethany is moderately happy in the Circle. In the end, she either joins you if you defend the Circle or you can spare her life if you side with the templars. She is not made Tranquil, nor does she ever become an abomination.

And Bethany is an example of what does and does not work about the Circle. The training she received was from her father, who was trained in the Circle himself. But she was also allowed freedom and to be surrounded by a family that loved her and I think that is what made her strong in the sense that she could not or would not be swayed or as tempted by demons.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 25 mars 2011 - 03:11 .

[Taura-Tierno]

The thing with the mages is, that yes, they're corrupt. But is that corruption inherent? Or is the concentration of blood mages higher in Kirkwall than in Ferelden (what we saw at least) because of Meredith? Did her zealous and fanatic attitude actually cause the mages to turn to blood magic?

[KenKenpachi]

Jassper wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Jassper wrote...

I also don't understand why every mage is a blood mage or possessed. They make it really hard to side with the Mages as it does seem they are dammed.

Answered your own question.

So you are saying they are truely damed? Then it doesn't make sense for a player to be a Mage. Unless each game ended with you being killed by Templaers as the abominations took over.

Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely. Very few people can avoid corruption. For every George Washington you have, you have 20 Stalins. Why should mages be immune to this law? Its like the Jedi, if you read the EU its rather funny how many Sith Come from the Ranks of the Jedi. Or just how many Jedi walk a "grey path". Hawke and the Warden are exceptions, when you think of it in DA:O very few Mages were left after the uprising. Plus as to turning to blood magic, its a cheap way out. You want power its like cheating on a test. It'll get you what you need, but it comes at a cost.

As the the Qunari. Its not strange at all, its Military and Political Secrecy. It'ls be like if a nuke went missing from a US Arsenal provided there was no leak, we would go after it and not tell anyone. Covert Operations are carried out daily by many nations, most of which you'll never hear about, and in which men die, for what amounts to killing one person or even just seeing what one is doing. The object in question is very important to the Qunari, and they don't want Kirkwalls goverment to know as gee, they can keep it, or 20 some diffrent groups would be searching for it tomorrow. Kirkwall is a power than the Qunari have a peace treaty with that isn't worth the paper its printed on. Not a trusted partner. As to well Kirkwall can always ask them to leave. They can't I can ask an infantry Platoon to lave my house, but uness I have equal power, or am willing to take losses and damage, nothing I can do to actully make them.


Life is not very logical...never has been, never will be. There is Chaos, and mistrust, those can throw logic of every sort out of a window. Not too mention logic can be fixed to ones point of view if he has the gift of a silver tongue.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 25 mars 2011 - 03:00 .

[Sabriana]

Jassper wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

@ OP
If your friendship/rivalry is maxed out, it locks and will not change again. If you are far enough along on the rivalry path, you'll get rivalry points only for gifts/decisions/etc. meaning the friendship path is locked, more or less.

Nope, it wasn't maxed

It doesn't have to be maxed, it happens if the rival-meter is far enough along. For example, my Hawke had Merrill on the rival path, I think Merrill was about 55 - 60 points into rivalry. When my Hawke gave her a gift, she got rivalry points for it instead of friend points.

What I'm trying to say is that if you are far enough along on the rivalry path, you will get rival points instead of friend points for your gifts and what-not.

And if you are maxed on either, they lock and never change again. But you don't have to be maxed to receive rivalry points from a certain point onward.

[TheAwesomologist]

Jassper wrote...

I know not all in the game are abominations - yet. Bethony didn't live long enough to become one, I don't know what happens if you don't take her to the Deeproads other than she is taken by the Templars, but I'm guessing she is made tranquil. The game sure does make it sound as if any who aren't abominations - will become one given the time.

I have nothing that points otherwise, that is except Flemith. I'm hoping she turns out to be a different side of magic and not just another abomination or deamon.

I don't agree with the Templars methods and if there is a chance that a Mage can live a life free of becoming an abomination then they need to be allowed that chance, but if not then genocide is the only long term answer, after all the circle is nothing more than a prison. Allowing you to live until you turn.

Not all mages in the game are evil, not even all the blood magic users (re: Merrill and even Mage Hawke). Nearly every mage who does turn into an abomination or turns evil is a direct result of being pushed there by the Templars.

If you play as a Warrior or Rogue and don't take Bethany she joins the Circle. She doesn't become tranquil but I think she can still possibly die at the end. If you take her to the Deep Roads and bring Anders she becomes a Warden. She'll initially hate you for it but comes around at the end. At no point does she ever become a blood mage or go batshiat crazy.

[Ealos]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

The thing with the mages is, that yes, they're corrupt. But is that corruption inherent? Or is the concentration of blood mages higher in Kirkwall than in Ferelden (what we saw at least) because of Meredith? Did her zealous and fanatic attitude actually cause the mages to turn to blood magic?

If you collect the "Enigma of Kirkwall" codex entries you discover that in ancient times Emerius was the centre of a secret base of arcane research. In the lower reaches of the city, the veil is so thin that demons can communicate with non-mages - that influence of the fade is why modern Kirkwall has double the number of malificarum in Starkhaven. And then you have Meredith... not a good place to be a mage.