264 réponses à ce sujet

[_Aine_]

I think the easiest way to sum up the grey wardens ( they aren't the white knights after all, i think they are grey for a reason, neither good, nor evil) is this:

Your past doesn't matter except for how it trained you, the skills it gave you and the willingness to do ANYTHING it takes ( in life so also against the Blight).

If you wanted to be holy, you would be in the chantry. A hero, you would be a warrior on the front lines. The reason there are murderers, rapists, thieves in the grey wardens is because of their skillset, not their worthiness for sainthood. Not our modern version of "hero" to be sure, but there you have it.

[Serion amakiir]

[quote]RangerSG wrote...

[quote]Suron wrote...


4) I've played PCs who've liked Duncan and resented him. In-character, I can see both justified. A lot of it is dependant on how willing you played your PC in coming to the GW. That said, claims he "murdered" Jory are ludicrous by 'any' objective standard. Objectively, I think he would be a hard person to know, unless you were someone like Alistair he held close. But I'd respect him, and want him as my commander anyday. Because I know he'd do anything he could to get the job done. And in the context of what his job is, that's a good thing.

[/quote]


i sure as **** dont whant duncan to be My commander cause as u say he will do Anything to win and that means things that are worse then rape, murdere, and sacrifesing You any day of the week and yes i know kill one to save many and where has That gotten us? overpopulasen etc no i say kill every1 who forces ppl to die for there cause let them be on the front lines when the horde comes crashing down and lets see if they stand firm. Ha!

[Serion amakiir]

i dont have a problem with the GWs not at all and i do agree that doing what is necesary to win is a hard choice and the ppl who fight the good fight should be aplauded...But what i dont aprove of and never will is ppl forcing other ppl to do something that they dont whant to do. so if a person dosent what to join the GW and is telling Duncan to sod off, then gets conscriptet well then that makes duncan a bad guy in my book! use the means you have been given but dont force ppl to fight for a cause they dont give a **** about. and just so we are clear conscription shouldent be something ppl should have for not even a king or the maker has the right to choose a persons fate the right is reservede for you and Only you.

[RangerSG]

Serion amakiir wrote...

i dont have a problem with the GWs not at all and i do agree that doing what is necesary to win is a hard choice and the ppl who fight the good fight should be aplauded...But what i dont aprove of and never will is ppl forcing other ppl to do something that they dont whant to do. so if a person dosent what to join the GW and is telling Duncan to sod off, then gets conscriptet well then that makes duncan a bad guy in my book! use the means you have been given but dont force ppl to fight for a cause they dont give a **** about. and just so we are clear conscription shouldent be something ppl should have for not even a king or the maker has the right to choose a persons fate the right is reservede for you and Only you.

Leaders always...always have to coerce people into doing what they want to do. In the military, that routinely involves convincing soldiers they are safer standing in the ranks and trading blows than they would be chucking their shield and sword and running for the hills.

Now, if Duncan were making people take a risk he was not willing to take himself, then you'd have an argument. But your logic doesn't even hold up as an example of parenting (which routinely involves getting people to do what they didn't want to do initially), let alone being a military commander.

Anarchy sounds nice until you see it.

[Serion amakiir]

lol running for the Hills? HELLs NO hehe but ppl should have choice when it comes to fighting m8 thats all i am saying, call for voulentiers but Dont force ppl.

if i came to your house and said that you and your father will fight in My army, your mother should be a cook and your sister should help keep your commander warm at night i think you would hate my guts, but dont worry you have all been conscriptet so you dont hafe to feel guilty for fighting in my army, now then if i was duncan and had the power of conscriptions would you like me to use that power? )

Modifié par Serion amakiir, 24 janvier 2010 - 01:48 .

[RangerSG]

Serion amakiir wrote...

lol running for the Hills? HELLs NO hehe but ppl should have choice when it comes to fighting m8 thats all i am saying, call for voulentiers but Dont force ppl.

if i came to your house and said that you and your father will fight in My army, your mother should be a cook and your sister should help keep your commander warm at night i think you would hate my guts, but dont worry you have all been conscriptet so you dont hafe to feel guilty for fighting in my army, now then if i was duncan and had the power of conscriptions would you like me to use that power? )

Does Duncan 'like' to use that power? Look at all the origins. The Rite of Conscription is to him a last resort. In every instance he uses it to save your bacon. Even in the Human Noble opening, the reason he uses the Rite (from his perspective) isn't so that he can manipulate Bryce, it's so that he can be sure that the son is safe from getting beheaded for being a Cousland, it's protection (for you and him). Like it or not, Howe's men are going to kill everyone inside the keep (rules of medeival sacking apply).

It's not DUNCAN that ruined the PC's life, it's Howe. Duncan offers the PC some meaning out of the tragedy. Given the circumstances, things would be much, much worse if he wasn't there. In all the other openings, Duncan is pretty much saving your butt entirely from the get-go. The City Elf opening, he gives you the chance to break in/free. The Dalish opening, you're toast already. The Dwarf Noble opening, he's offering you an alternative to death in the Deep Roads. Commoner opening you're going to suffer too. Mage opening you're either self-toasted or going to be looked at as a self-serving toady of Irving, so getting out is a good thing too.

There's not one opening where you plight is 'worsened' by joining the Wardens. And look at Daveth, Duncan saves him from getting strung up with the Rite. Jory was NOT conscripted, he volunteered and then tried to 'back out' after it was too late. Nowhere does Jory say he was conscripted, in fact, he says "He worked hard for the honor of getting Duncan's attention." He forced HIMSELF into Duncan's path. Not the other way around.

Sorry, Jory's fate is self-made. Do I have sympathy for him? Of course I do. But does that mean that Duncan had a choice? Nope. Too late for that.

[Serion amakiir]

damn you are quick quick a respons ranger )



but you are wrong in the nobel origin and didnt hafe to recrut you for you to survive all you had to do was follow duncan to ostagar and speak to the king, where your brother is fighting darkspawn so under any cirkumstanses that would have been where you where going any how, and you dont hear a peep from howe after you escape from the ladder (wich dosent take a genius to figure that you leave through the cellar and get as fast as you can away) duncan just uses the situation to recrute you.



a person dosent save anothers life just to have him fight every day against the darkspawn not to mention that he forces you to drink the blood wich can kill you right then and there and then there is the arcdemon you die from if u kill it not to mention hes cutting down your life to 30 years, you dont save some1 just to kill them later and that is what duncan does is killing you and no matter what you say the GW die either in combat or from the taint.



in the dwarf nobel origin i hafe to say that why couldent duncan just have let you follow him out of the deeproad why do you Hafe to join the GWs in order to leave that place? and should you get out you can take what ever road fate has in store for you but ohh no you Hafe to become a GW duncan said so.



the cityelf i agree the story behind that is that duncan saves you also in the dwarf commoner but the dalish u had a choice...not a got 1 but you had the choice to say goodbye to your clan then walk out into the woods and die but No duncan only offers you the "cure" if you join him, if he was such a nobel soul he would have told you that you could die from the cure and if you dont it will only keep you alive for 30 years and then have askt you if u whantet it and if you whantet it he should have given you the choice to offecialy join the GWs or return to your clan.



in regards to jory your right he whantet honor and glory but wouldent pay the price but i stil say that jory was scarede about drinking poison when all he thought he had to do was fight darkspawn.

Modifié par Serion amakiir, 24 janvier 2010 - 11:50 .

[Serion amakiir]

Serion amakiir wrote...

damn you are quick to respond ranger )

but you are wrong in the nobel origin. duncan didnt hafe to recrut you for you to survive, all you had to do was follow duncan to ostagar and speak to the king, where your brother is fighting darkspawn so under any cirkumstanses that would have been where you where going any how, and you dont hear a peep from howe after you escape from the ladder (wich dosent take a genius to figure that you leave through the cellar and get as fast as you can away) duncan just uses the situation to recrute you.

a person dosent save anothers life just to have him fight every day against the darkspawn not to mention that he forces you to drink the blood wich can kill you right then and there and then there is the arcdemon you die from if u kill it not to mention hes cutting down your life to 30 years, you dont save some1 just to kill them later and that is what duncan does is killing you and no matter what you say the GW die either in combat or from the taint.

in the dwarf nobel origin i hafe to say that why couldent duncan just have let you follow him out of the deeproad why do you Hafe to join the GWs in order to leave that place? and should you get out you can take what ever road fate has in store for you but ohh no you Hafe to become a GW duncan said so.

the cityelf i agree the story behind that is that duncan saves you also in the dwarf commoner but the dalish u had a choice...not a got 1 but you had the choice to say goodbye to your clan then walk out into the woods and die but No duncan only offers you the "cure" if you join him, if he was such a nobel soul he would have told you that you could die from the cure and if you dont it will only keep you alive for 30 years and then have askt you if u whantet it and if you whantet it he should have given you the choice to offecialy join the GWs or return to your clan.

in regards to jory your right he whantet honor and glory but wouldent pay the price but i stil say that jory was scarede about drinking poison when all he thought he had to do was fight darkspawn.

[SusanStoHelit]

RangerSG wrote...

Jory was NOT conscripted, he volunteered and then tried to 'back out' after it was too late. Nowhere does Jory say he was conscripted, in fact, he says "He worked hard for the honor of getting Duncan's attention." He forced HIMSELF into Duncan's path. Not the other way around.

Sorry, Jory's fate is self-made. Do I have sympathy for him? Of course I do. But does that mean that Duncan had a choice? Nope. Too late for that. 

This is exactly it.

And as for conscription being bad or even 'evil'. Duncan didn't invent the Right of Conscription - it's part of Ferelden law, in fact since the Wardens operate outside Ferelden it must be part of the laws of other countries too. Duncan works inside the bounds of what's legal and permissible. We're told over and over ingame about the Right of Conscription - even a king can be conscripted, if not without cost.

I imagine it came about because everybody centuries ago (millennia even) agreed that defeating the blight and so on was more important than individual freedom. Duncan himself, as I understand it, was conscripted against his will. Do you really believe that individual rights to choose are more important than defeating the blight? That's certainly your right to so believe, if you choose.

I am opposed to conscription in our world - but we have no blight, darkspawn, or Archdemons. Conscription in our world is to support someone's political or military goals. In Thedas, it's to defeat something that is a threat to all people (all life in fact) everywhere. The Blight threatens and destroys all. Is conscription an unpleasant option? Yes. Is it sometimes necessary? Yes, undoubtedly - at least in times of a Blight. Between blights - no.

[Addai]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I certainly don't think a player need feel compelled to like Duncan. The game gives you dialogue options that basically say you think he betrayed you. Don't think all characters need to be thrilled to be a Grey Warden, either. My Cousland character regrets taking the Joining. She did not sign up for this. Literally, since there was so much Duncan didn't tell her. She will still fight the Blight, as she would have anyway, but feels no loyalty to the order.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...

I haven't read the whole thread, but I certainly don't think a player need feel compelled to like Duncan. The game gives you dialogue options that basically say you think he betrayed you. Don't think all characters need to be thrilled to be a Grey Warden, either. My Cousland character regrets taking the Joining. She did not sign up for this. Literally, since there was so much Duncan didn't tell her. She will still fight the Blight, as she would have anyway, but feels no loyalty to the order.

As did mine. You are absolutely correct. Liking/hating Duncan are equally valid responses, because in each origin, you get that sort of leeway to do so, depending on your choices, background, ect. Duncan can be liberator or enslaver with but a couple of dialogue options.

Like just about everything else in game, there is no correct/incorrect way to feel about Duncan. He's good or bad, depending on perspective.

[RangerSG]

Addai67 wrote...

I haven't read the whole thread, but I certainly don't think a player need feel compelled to like Duncan. The game gives you dialogue options that basically say you think he betrayed you. Don't think all characters need to be thrilled to be a Grey Warden, either. My Cousland character regrets taking the Joining. She did not sign up for this. Literally, since there was so much Duncan didn't tell her. She will still fight the Blight, as she would have anyway, but feels no loyalty to the order.

I don't think anyone has said you must like Duncan in-character. I know I said I have characters that have liked him and some that have not. Far be it from me to say who you should like and not like. That's not the purpose of our argument.

The point those of us who have defended him have made is that his actions are entirely justifiable in a legal and ethical sense. You may not like them. You may even feel he's callous, and no doubt, to an extent he is. He's certainly no saint. And I've never suggested he is (indeed, if you read the books, you see he definitely is not one). But his actions in the game are justifiable, even with regards to Jory.

[kormesios]

RangerSG wrote...
The point those of us who have defended him have made is that his actions are entirely justifiable in a legal and ethical sense. You may not like them. You may even feel he's callous, and no doubt, to an extent he is. He's certainly no saint. And I've never suggested he is (indeed, if you read the books, you see he definitely is not one). But his actions in the game are justifiable, even with regards to Jory.

For Jory and the human noble origin, you can make arguments either way.  Both fall very much in the "grey."  No way is either one "entirely" justifiable.

Jory has to be considered the execution of a deserter, in wartime.  At the same time, death clearly wasn't necessary *yet*--he didn't try to talk Jory down, and instead escalated the issue.  It was either the failure of judgment of a commander (maybe he thought it was the best way), or an unethical disregard for human life.  Possibly, a more talented commander would have been able to motivate Jory, and Duncan lacked that talent.  I think it's equally likely he simply considered Jory useless, and used his death to make a point to the PC.

The human noble is different--definitely fine judgment, horrible ethics.  He wants a recruit and makes a deal for one.  With a dying man who was just betrayed and saw his family killed, implying he wouldn't lift a finger to help otherwise.  Whether true or not, the ethics of the situation are miserable.

[RangerSG]

kormesios wrote...

RangerSG wrote...
The point those of us who have defended him have made is that his actions are entirely justifiable in a legal and ethical sense. You may not like them. You may even feel he's callous, and no doubt, to an extent he is. He's certainly no saint. And I've never suggested he is (indeed, if you read the books, you see he definitely is not one). But his actions in the game are justifiable, even with regards to Jory.

For Jory and the human noble origin, you can make arguments either way.  Both fall very much in the "grey."  No way is either one "entirely" justifiable.

Jory has to be considered the execution of a deserter, in wartime.  At the same time, death clearly wasn't necessary *yet*--he didn't try to talk Jory down, and instead escalated the issue.  It was either the failure of judgment of a commander (maybe he thought it was the best way), or an unethical disregard for human life.  Possibly, a more talented commander would have been able to motivate Jory, and Duncan lacked that talent.  I think it's equally likely he simply considered Jory useless, and used his death to make a point to the PC.

The human noble is different--definitely fine judgment, horrible ethics.  He wants a recruit and makes a deal for one.  With a dying man who was just betrayed and saw his family killed, implying he wouldn't lift a finger to help otherwise.  Whether true or not, the ethics of the situation are miserable.

Jory is waving steel in Duncan's face. As I said before, that is like waving a gun in your face. And he did try to talk Jory down to the extent he could. He warned him that there was no turning back.

When a trained warrior is waving a sword, scared or not, that is a serious threat. People die all the time because they underestimate the danger such a situation represents. By any standard of law or ethics, Duncan's actions are justifiable on self-defense grounds alone. A knight does not draw a sword without the intent to use it.

As for the noble, talk with Bryce after the family gathering. Bryce makes it clear that if Duncan presses the issue, he'd accept it. He doesn't want to, and if you read between the lines, he doesn't want to because your mother doesn't want you to go.

Fergus: "Mother and Father have been arguing for days."
Mother: "You haven't gotten it into your head that you want to be recruited, have you?" (this is actually before at the 'salon' discussion).
Bryce: "Has he asked to recruit you?"
PC: "And if he had?"
Bryce: "I'd have to consider it," (implication, 'accept it').

So Bryce was not the one holding you back from joining. His initial
protest, put in the context of the later discussions, seems to be what
the Teryna has asked him to say. And he is repeating it for her sake to
keep a united front.

Duncan, I think, reads people well enough to know that Bryce's initial protest was along those lines. And he's probably heard that excuse enough to know a "mother's excuse" when he hears it. He made it clear all along Ser Gilmore was a distant second choice for a recruit. And given the context of the discussions, it seems that Duncan and Bryce had already agreed that he would get 'someone' from his visit to Highever. You're the only 'someone' left.

[McMaze]

When a trained warrior is waving a sword, scared or not, that is a
serious threat. People die all the time because they underestimate the
danger such a situation represents. By any standard of law or ethics,
Duncan's actions are justifiable on self-defense grounds alone. A
knight does not draw a sword without the intent to use it.

Apparently you missed the part where Duncan wants to force Jory to drink darkspawn blood, which has a good chance of killing you. By todays standards of law or ethics Duncans action doesn't qualify as selfdefense.

As for the noble, talk with Bryce after the family gathering. Bryce
makes it clear that if Duncan presses the issue, he'd accept it. He
doesn't want to, and if you read between the lines, he doesn't want to
because your mother doesn't want you to go.

So ? Doesn't change the fact that Duncan exploits the situation.

Modifié par McMaze, 02 février 2010 - 07:14 .

[RangerSG]

McMaze wrote...

When a trained warrior is waving a sword, scared or not, that is a
serious threat. People die all the time because they underestimate the
danger such a situation represents. By any standard of law or ethics,
Duncan's actions are justifiable on self-defense grounds alone. A
knight does not draw a sword without the intent to use it.

Apparently you missed the part where Duncan wants to force Jory to drink darkspawn blood, which have a good chance of killing you. By todays standards of law or ethics Duncans action doesn't qualify as selfdefense.

As for the noble, talk with Bryce after the family gathering. Bryce
makes it clear that if Duncan presses the issue, he'd accept it. He
doesn't want to, and if you read between the lines, he doesn't want to
because your mother doesn't want you to go.

So ? Doesn't change the fact that Duncan exploits the situation.

Apparently you missed the part where Jory said he volunteered and worked to be noticed by Duncan. Again, of the three, Jory is given the most opportunity to back out, and he was never conscripted.

Does Duncan exploit the situation with your family? Probably. But once again, what choice does he have? It represents the best protection for you to have you conscripted so assassins aren't following you all the way to Ostagar. Easy to say, "You could just have followed him." But that doesn't answer the question of "What protection would you have?" To which the answer is: none. At least under the banner of the Grey Wardens, you are in an order supported by a King on the way down. That's likely to give most cutthroats at least some pause.

[McMaze]

RangerSG wrote...



Apparently you missed the part where Jory said he volunteered and worked to be noticed by Duncan. Again, of the three, Jory is given the most opportunity to back out, and he was never conscripted.

At this point Jory still thought beeing a Greywarden is only about killing darkspawn and not about drinking poisonous blood, which can kill you. If Duncan told him about the dangers of the joningritual things would look a bit different. But if someone forces you to drink poison against your own will and kills you when you try to stop him ( with a sword/gun whatever) this doesn't qualify as selfdefense anymore. At least not by todays standard of law or ethic.

Does Duncan exploit the situation with your family? Probably. But once again, what choice does he have? It represents the best protection for you to have you conscripted so assassins aren't following you all the way to Ostagar. Easy to say, "You could just have followed him." But that doesn't answer the question of "What protection would you have?" To which the answer is: none. At least under the banner of the Grey Wardens, you are in an order supported by a King on the way down. That's likely to give most cutthroats at least some pause.

(How does being conscripted stops assasins from following you more
than as example just hiding ? Greywarden or not Howe still wants to see
you dead.) Anyway I am not sure if the main characters safety is Duncans number one concern. He just wanted a recruit and he got one when your father was dying.

[Dessalines]

It depends on how I play the game if I going to roleplay that I like Duncan or not. He gives you a choice do you want to die today, or do you want to die latter? Well, he doesn't give you the choice. He keeps the dying part to himself. You could have died during the joining, or from the taint of the joining, and of course fighting darkspawn.

[RangerSG]

McMaze wrote...

RangerSG wrote...



Apparently you missed the part where Jory said he volunteered and worked to be noticed by Duncan. Again, of the three, Jory is given the most opportunity to back out, and he was never conscripted.

At this point Jory still thought beeing a Greywarden is only about killing darkspawn and not about drinking poisonous blood, which can kill you. If Duncan told him about the dangers of the joningritual things would look a bit different. But if someone forces you to drink poison against your own will and kills you when you try to stop him ( with a sword/gun whatever) this doesn't qualify as selfdefense anymore. At least not by todays standard of law or ethic.

Does Duncan exploit the situation with your family? Probably. But once again, what choice does he have? It represents the best protection for you to have you conscripted so assassins aren't following you all the way to Ostagar. Easy to say, "You could just have followed him." But that doesn't answer the question of "What protection would you have?" To which the answer is: none. At least under the banner of the Grey Wardens, you are in an order supported by a King on the way down. That's likely to give most cutthroats at least some pause.

(How does being conscripted stops assasins from following you more
than as example just hiding ? Greywarden or not Howe still wants to see
you dead.) Anyway I am not sure if the main characters safety is Duncans number one concern. He just wanted a recruit and he got one when your father was dying.

Was Jory told ahead of time that the Joining could be fatal? Yes. Did he say "Let's get on with it" anyway? Yes.

Jory chose to take the risk, then backed out. He was told it could be fatal ahead of time. Does the particular of 'how' it would be fatal matter? No. He chose ahead of time.

And how can you "hide" when everyone would know the roads you'd have to take to Ostagar and the King. Sorry, it's not like the Imperial Highway is a secret, untravelled route.

[Akimb0]

Jory was a coward and a fool right from the very first moment you meet him. He should have known (in fact, he did know) he'd be killed if he tried to back out. He'd have been better off taking the risk and drinking the blood. The moment Duncan drew his sword he should have backed down. At least he'd have stood a chance at surviving the blood to protect his family and all of Fereldan.

I think the real question is: Why did Duncan bring him in as a recruit in the first place? desperate times I guess, but he obviously wasn't Warden material.

On that note, no matter how I RP my character, I can't help but respect Duncan, even if I don't like him as such.

Modifié par Akimb0, 24 janvier 2010 - 09:31 .

[Addai]

RangerSG wrote...

Does Duncan exploit the situation with your family? Probably. But once again, what choice does he have? It represents the best protection for you to have you conscripted so assassins aren't following you all the way to Ostagar. Easy to say, "You could just have followed him." But that doesn't answer the question of "What protection would you have?" To which the answer is: none. At least under the banner of the Grey Wardens, you are in an order supported by a King on the way down. That's likely to give most cutthroats at least some pause.

He certainly exploits it.  If you refuse him, he invokes the rite of conscription.  Demanding you join his order in exchange for his help, in front of your dying father.  He is doing what he thinks he has to do, but it's still harsh, to put it lightly.  This is a grim story and there's no reason to sugarcoat the fact that Duncan is single-minded and that can make him a bit of a bastard.  You could have joined the king's army without becoming a GW.

Edit P.S.:  I'm not even saying that Duncan is wrong to do what he does.  He's a general, he sees the big picture of the battlefield, whereas the PC is (possibly, depending on roleplay stance) seeing only the smaller.  And it is obvious from his facial expression that he is torn up by the situation your family is in, so he's not a cad.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 janvier 2010 - 11:21 .

[Serion amakiir]

i think ppl forget to see that if you talk to duncan at the begining of the nobel story he says that he was invitet by your father to test ser gilmore for the warden ranks, But he also says that if he dosent find a warden he will continue onward to ostagar so the only reason why duncan was there in the first place was that he was invitet by your father who may have a person in his service that was skilled enough to join the wardens, lets say that howe never atackt the cousland castle and duncan testet ser gilmore and found him whanting, knowing full well that that you said no to joining the wardens (and you can see from your father facial features that he dosent whant you to join and if you say that you dont whant to join then he is even more adament on it) he would then leave the castle and head to ostagar thinking nothing more of it, now lets put howe back into the picture and see how duncan fares, not Well for he really does exsploit a dying mans last wishes to save his son from howe but duncan sees a chance for him to recruit the person he whantet first You and he then uses the situation to force your father And you to become a graywarden and That takes a mean bastard to use the entire situation to get what he whants wich is a ekstra gray warden.

and dont tell me that something or other might have happen to you on your way to ostagar if you didnt have duncan beside you cause u might as well have walkt right there whitout seeing one of howes men we dont know what happens so coulda woulda shoulda, all i know is that you dont need to become a gray warden for you to walk with duncan to ostagar to speak with the king, Duncan MADE it so.

[prsquared]

me too didn't like him. he can shove the right of conscription up his own ****. I want to continue travelling with my dalish elf clan.

[wwwwowwww]

Really can't desert something your not even in yet. I took the weapons off of Jory and he was still killed.

It was completely unwarranted.

[DarthWarduke]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

DarthWarduke wrote...

Ariella wrote...

DarthWarduke wrote...

Duncan is kind of a scumbag IMO. He basically drags you away from your home, forces you to some battle. Then he never mentions anything about the joining ceremony and it involves drinking blood and people dying. Sounds like David Koresh and the branch davidians in waco texas to me.

Comparing Ducan to David Koresh, is silly. Ducan is the commander of an established order which had saved Thedas four prior times versus David Koresh who claimed he was the Messiah.

Ok then, I will compare him to Jim Jones.  Lets jump back to 1978, remember that little incident in Jonestown?  Guy shows up, "Hi everybody I'm Jim and I have a proposition for you.  lets all join my little group known as the peoples temple and it will be grand.  Here.. have a glass of punch"... shhh dont tell everyone it is laced with cyanide.

You still don't get it. Even if you don't like him - or hate him - it's not a valid comparison. Duncan is not from some weird religious cult. He doesn't claim to be the Messiah. He doesn't have a message from God - or even from Glod. He isn't seeking converts. He's not proclaiming salvation.

He's a member of an order that's been around for thousands of years, whose one vital task is a real one. The darkspawn, the blight, and the Archdemons are real. They're not the product of a warped mind - or a vision - or deliberately crafted for his own nefarious means. They are actually real. And he, and all Wardens, are charged with defending Thedas from them - above all other concerns.

Now I don't much like Duncan, even though I respect the order. I don't happen to believe that the end always justifies the means. But Duncan is right. There is a blight and it is coming. There is an Archdemon, and it is a threat.

Stop trying to draw comparisons with insane religious zealots and cultists. You're not helping your case. And any undergrad student of mine who handed in such an argument would get the following grade: Fail (Epic Fail even).

Good thing I am not an undergrad student who does not have life experience.  Actually I have a M.S and my MBA, both from Penn State.  GO LIONS!  Point of fact, there can be a comparison between the Gray Wardens and a cult.  Anyone who cannot see this needs to go back to school and take some classes in philosophy or classical literature.  The onlt thing you failed to mention that would make sense to your arguement is that the Wardens are a part of a "fantasy game" and not "real life".  I would suggest reading Platos cave and drawing a comparison to the old Soviet union and it's rising "perestroika" which led to democracy.  Perhaps then you will be able to grasp an analogy.

Have a good day "teach"

Thank God for private schools...