264 réponses à ce sujet

[Rattleface]

PDXGamerGirl wrote...

I'm simply saying that Jory didn't deserve a stab to the gut over it imo.

Well, as they say, "deserve" ain't got nothin' to do with it.

There are all kinds of atrocities that citizens in Ferelden don't "deserve," starting with your own character.

Eh?

[Specimen 47]

She's talking about the origin stories, where just about everyone gets screwed over, and most of the time it wasn't their fault.

[Rattleface]

Specimen 47 wrote...

She's talking about the origin stories, where just about everyone gets screwed over, and most of the time it wasn't their fault.

So, what does that have to do with my sentence?

[Taleroth]

Specimen 47 wrote...

She's talking about the origin stories, where just about everyone gets screwed over, and most of the time it wasn't their fault.

I imagine very few people come out of the Human Noble origin thinking that Howe is some sort of hero.

[The Angry One]

Taleroth wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

The thing is, The Joining has to be kept secret because if people knew that it could possibly kill you, no one would want to join The Grey Wardens, which would be bad since they're the only ones who can stop a Blight.

If there were any truth to this claim, then the Grey Wardens would be faced with repeated internal rebellions, which would include the spilling of their secret.

The sort of people who survive the Joining are the sort of people who understand why it must be a secret.

Isn't that circular?

Nobody would join!
If that were true, then there would be rebellion.
Those who join understand !

Then why wouldn't they join anyway, even if the truth was known?  You'd basically be cutting outall the people who wouldn't understand early.

It's fairly binary.  Either someone understands or they don't.
If the only people to survive are the ones who understand, then the secret has no need to be secret, because these same people would join.
If people could survive who didn't understand, then the secret would be ultimately revealed by them in their inevitable rebellions.

They understand for after the joining they can see the darkspawn and archdemon for themselves and see the threat.
They might not strictly feel the same beforehand.

[Ellzedd]

"there is no turning back"

What was the alternative, have him go knowing the Grey Warden secrets behind the joining. Oh im sure loads of people would be queueing up to join them if they knew what really happened during the joining ceremony.

[Draguling]

I slit the throat of the survivor in the forest also.

[kaispan]

I found myself wondering about Duncan's judgment because from the start it was clear Jory was not Grey Warden material. Which made me question his judgment on recruiting *my* character--and yeah, there are origins where that makes sense and some that worked out so you had no choice, but some of the outcomes he pretty much corners you into it...



Idk, there is a lot in this game that isn't 'fair' and the GW are at the heart of it. It's easy to fall back on the 'necessity' line but Duncan has obviously hardened to the point where he can come across as simply a singleminded ****.

[_____o_O___]

Duncan is cool. He just understands the danger that the dark spawn represent. I liked him a lot. He is not cruel about things. He finds them distasteful though he is strong enough to do what needs to be done within reason. Would have been cool to have him around longer instead of any of the companions.



"I was hopeing for a pretty blonde with bad eyesight."

"See ser knight. We might die but we will be warned about it first."

"I'll take that quiet glare as a no."



Yeah I liked Daveth. Wish he was one of the rogues instead of the other two. While Jory I found annoying. Oh god we might die! Yes well good thing you trained to fight...

[AtreiyaN7]

I still liked Duncan - I think he did what was necessary. Jory was made aware that there was no turning back, but he tried to. I know he was scared and all, but by his actions he showed he wouldn't have been much of a Grey Warden. I think Duncan said something to that effect in conversation. Even Daveth, a common rogue, showed more courage than Jory (pity he didn't survive).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 17 novembre 2009 - 10:15 .

[_____o_O___]

kaispan wrote...

I found myself wondering about Duncan's judgment because from the start it was clear Jory was not Grey Warden material. Which made me question his judgment on recruiting *my* character--and yeah, there are origins where that makes sense and some that worked out so you had no choice, but some of the outcomes he pretty much corners you into it...

Idk, there is a lot in this game that isn't 'fair' and the GW are at the heart of it. It's easy to fall back on the 'necessity' line but Duncan has obviously hardened to the point where he can come across as simply a singleminded ****.

Yes lets be nicey nicey about the dark spawn problem...

They are not a serious threat at all...

[The Angry One]

Jory's problem wasn't a lack of courage, it's that he just didn't THINK.

He was too enraptured with the glory of being a Grey Warden. Probably saw how Duncan just had a freaking tournament held in his honour and thought "I'll have some of that."

Thing is of course with his wife and child on the way, he felt he had too much to lose and so he didn't listen the multiple times Duncan flat out says being a Warden is dangerous and you have to sacrifice everything.

[Taleroth]

Ellzedd wrote...

 Oh im sure loads of people would be queueing up to join them if they knew what really happened during the joining ceremony.

Because their current recruitment method totally depends upon their being gigantic lines of people waiting for the chance to sign up.  There's absolutely no people like Daveth or the Qunari who are accepting of duty and sacrifice.  The Dwarven Legion of the Dead are a bunch of cowards, afraid of sacrifice.  I bet Duncan was a cowering ****** when he found out the truth, too.

It also probably has no value as a temporary cure for those tainted by Darkspawn Blood, the Circle of Magi shouldn't even bother researching the idea.  Governments across Thedas would have no interest in having Grey Warden regular troops.

[The Angry One]

On Jory not being Grey Warden material, he won the tournament intended to test who'd be worthy of being a Grey Warden! He clearly had the combat ability and Duncan NEEDS new recruits.

Jory simply wasn't honest about what he was willing to give up.

[Brother-D]

Are we here judging if you like Duncan or if all Greywardens are enphatically morally sound. As I was to understand, Greywardens are there to stop Blights and to use any neccessary means.



If were here judging the former then thats up to you, the latter is fine.

[The Angry One]

Taleroth wrote...

It also probably has no value as a temporary cure for those tainted by Darkspawn Blood, the Circle of Magi shouldn't even bother researching the idea.  Governments across Thedas would have no interest in having Grey Warden regular troops.

The taint is a double-edged sword you know. Wardens hear the darkspawn and the darkspawn hear them.
Having everyone who's been poisoned undertake the joining alongside regular troops without the proper training and discipline would be a rather bad idea.

[Taleroth]

The Angry One wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

It also probably has no value as a temporary cure for those tainted by Darkspawn Blood, the Circle of Magi shouldn't even bother researching the idea.  Governments across Thedas would have no interest in having Grey Warden regular troops.

The taint is a double-edged sword you know. Wardens hear the darkspawn and the darkspawn hear them.
Having everyone who's been poisoned undertake the joining alongside regular troops without the proper training and discipline would be a rather bad idea.

Only if you're ignorant of the fact Darkspawn can hear them.  You keep track of who you cure, you put them in special divisions.  You use them on diversions or whatever you would use Grey Wardens for.  The difference being that now they're part of your formal command structure, you're not having to contact and organize mercenary forces.

You don't end up with people like Loghain treating them as foreign invaders.  Because Loghain has some working for him, too, to tell him the truth of the Blight.

Maybe that's the bigger travesty of their secret.  It's the reason governments don't trust them, don't want to work with them.  Because they arrogantly presume they're the only ones capable of handling the truth.

Modifié par Taleroth, 17 novembre 2009 - 10:29 .

[Flamin Jesus]

Yes, and some 30 years later half your legion turns into a shambling horde of Darkspawn, naturally AFTER having dispersed all around the land.

[Gill Kaiser]

The only thing I didn't like about the Joining was that Duncan started to go all Wicker Man by walking and speaking more slowly than normal. When he turned to Jory and said "Please, for your sake there is no turning back", it reminded me of the Neighbourhood Watch Alliance in Hot Fuzz. "The Greater Good!". In fact, I believe Duncan even says that exact line.

[Taleroth]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Yes, and some 30 years later half your legion turns into a shambling horde of Darkspawn, naturally AFTER having dispersed all around the land.

My legions are easier to keep track of than those Grey Warden mercenaries roaming around, I'll tell you what.  Conscripted from my very own people, tied to a foreign power, and without telling me their true nature?

Yeah, that's not more dangerous at all.

Modifié par Taleroth, 17 novembre 2009 - 10:35 .

[The Angry One]

Taleroth wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Yes, and some 30 years later half your legion turns into a shambling horde of Darkspawn, naturally AFTER having dispersed all around the land.

My legions are easier to keep track of than those Grey Warden mercenaries roaming around, I'll tell you what.

Seeing as all Grey Wardens directly answer to their regional leaders, and those regional leaders answer to Weisshaupt.. they are quite easy to keep track of.

[Flamin Jesus]

Taleroth wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Yes, and some 30 years later half your legion turns into a shambling horde of Darkspawn, naturally AFTER having dispersed all around the land.

My legions are easier to keep track of than those Grey Warden mercenaries roaming around, I'll tell you what.

a few thousand people who have long returned to a civilian live and scattered all around the land are easier to keep track of than a few dozen people who watch each other for signs of corruption because they know what's coming to them?

[Reiella]

Taleroth wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Yes, and some 30 years later half your legion turns into a shambling horde of Darkspawn, naturally AFTER having dispersed all around the land.

My legions are easier to keep track of than those Grey Warden mercenaries roaming around, I'll tell you what.  Conscripted from my very own people, tied to a foreign power, and without telling me their true nature?

Yeah, that's not more dangerous at all.

There is an accounting of all Grey Wardens in Weisshaupt I believe.  Of course, that may well end up being one shy because of when Riordan died.  And of course, as folks are conscripted in the heat of battle, I'm sure other oversights occur.   That said, membership is most likly alot better controlled/known than legions.

[Wintermist]

The whole forcing to drink darkspawn blood is flawed anyway. If you force someone who doesn't want to drink it, you can bet your ass he will be highly upset if he comes to life again and could well cause havoc among the ranks, murdering and whatnot. Conscript a murderer, and you can bet your ass you have a dagger in your back in the morning, and footprints leading into the woods.

Now if they are open about it and let people come to them and do the honorable thing, it would be a  safer better system. As a criminal you would have this one chance to redeem yourself, but it would be voluntary.

Modifié par Wintermist, 17 novembre 2009 - 10:39 .