I thought Duncan would turn out to be alive and well and be the evil mastermind behind everything at the end of the game... like every other BioWare game. :-)
Was I the only one who didn't like Duncan? *early game spoilers*
Débuté par
Bovinian King
, nov. 17 2009 09:25
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#177
Posté 21 janvier 2010 - 10:56
fightright2
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While I have a major crush on Duncan for his looks and father figure bad a**ness, I still didn't like that he killed Jory but I can see how it was necessary in that he cannot EVER allow the secret to how they gain the ability to sense the darkspawn. If the rest of the world knew the truth about the joining then there would be no volunteers to step forward. If the world knew then all the volunteers stepping forward would be egotistical hotshots with only their own glory in mind. Instead of actually wanting to save the world from the evil abroad.
So count me in favor of Duncan.
As I remember Alistair said that there were other templars much better than him but that Duncan selected him because he had heart and that serves as determination to get what is needed done.
So count me in favor of Duncan.
As I remember Alistair said that there were other templars much better than him but that Duncan selected him because he had heart and that serves as determination to get what is needed done.
#178
Posté 21 janvier 2010 - 11:39
Joshd21
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The Angry One wrote...
Secret or not, Jory drew steel against his commanding officer.
That makes him a deserter and a traitor. Even today, treason is an executable offense. Secret or no, Jory got what was coming to him.
And this is coming from someone who liked Jory. He wasn't a bad man or a bad character, but he panicked and made an idiotic mistake.
Though Jory wasn't doing 'Treason" least in my mind, is when a person commits a great threat/strike or selling secert's to be considered treason. To me personally he just got cold feet, it's easy to watch him and say you would drank it.
However watching someone drop dead in front of him, made him think of his wife and he wanted out for lack of a better word. I don't know if killing him was right option, he certaintly would not have made a good grey warden if he couldn't drink the cup:unsure:
#179
Posté 21 janvier 2010 - 11:49
_Aine_
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I kind of wanted Duncan to just sigh and say " oh put that away you freaking moron." but alas...
that said, I love Duncan. I think he is awesome in a way very like someone else so aptly said " bad ass father figure" but you know, one that would kill you for something he wanted or felt was needed... Badder bad ass. Like loghain in a "i'm on the other side" kinda way... *meow*
I always say that to Duncan though " I still can't believe you killed Jory!" Goof. As a noble and elf i always reject joining right away too. Especially the noble. Blackmailing my dying father so there is a chance *i* will be the one to kil the darkspawn.... grrrr. Way to go Captain Callous
Um, yeah thanks for the honour, Duncan you doof.
He is one of my fave characters though because his demeanor is not necessarily his entire story. That is exactly what is so appealing though, he only SEEMS like the nice guy i think
So, another pro-Duncan here
that said, I love Duncan. I think he is awesome in a way very like someone else so aptly said " bad ass father figure" but you know, one that would kill you for something he wanted or felt was needed... Badder bad ass. Like loghain in a "i'm on the other side" kinda way... *meow*
I always say that to Duncan though " I still can't believe you killed Jory!" Goof. As a noble and elf i always reject joining right away too. Especially the noble. Blackmailing my dying father so there is a chance *i* will be the one to kil the darkspawn.... grrrr. Way to go Captain Callous
Um, yeah thanks for the honour, Duncan you doof. He is one of my fave characters though because his demeanor is not necessarily his entire story. That is exactly what is so appealing though, he only SEEMS like the nice guy i think
So, another pro-Duncan here
Modifié par shantisands, 22 janvier 2010 - 12:41 .
#180
Posté 22 janvier 2010 - 12:35
RPGlover732
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No one speaks bad of Duncan..... watch your back TC
#181
Posté 22 janvier 2010 - 12:44
Serion amakiir
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lol there was a way for duncan to resolve this whole jory thing....duncan should have let him drink first hehe.
but the way i see it is that duncan dont care about who gets hurt or how many lives he ruins just as long as he gets His way and to me thats a bad guy.
but the way i see it is that duncan dont care about who gets hurt or how many lives he ruins just as long as he gets His way and to me thats a bad guy.
#182
Posté 22 janvier 2010 - 04:45
RangerSG
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Serion amakiir wrote...
lol there was a way for duncan to resolve this whole jory thing....duncan should have let him drink first hehe.
but the way i see it is that duncan dont care about who gets hurt or how many lives he ruins just as long as he gets His way and to me thats a bad guy.
I don't get where you see Duncan thinks like that.
1) First of all, he's perfectly willing not to push things to "get his way" with the nobility. He wouldn't have recruited the Human Noble except his choice for recruit got plowed under by Howe's treason and he 'needed' recruits. He passed on recruiting the City Elf's mother because he did 'not' want to break up families. So he doesn't push things without reason.
2) "His way" is "saving the world from utter destruction." This isn't exactly a 2 yr old tantrum we're talking about. We're talking about "No Grey Wardens=dead world."
3) He has lots of experience at his job, and the Wardens have a long history. He knows full well what happens if he is loose-lipped with Warden secrets.
Honestly, Duncan reminds me a lot of John Sheridan in Babylon 5. He's willing to do some harsh things to get the job done, but the job needs to be done. That doesn't mean either of them 'like' using people or lying to people. But they're convinced they have to do what is right. The danger with judging people wrong for being fanatics is sometimes they actually may be fanatical about the right thing.
#183
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 12:54
Serion amakiir
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1 yes the 1 he came to see if he would make a good GW got killed But what he did to your father saying that he will only help if he gets you because of the blight etc etc yada yada yada Thats bad and especialy to a Dying man!, also if you listen when you say to begin with that u dont whant to become a GW he will actualy tell you that if the the 1 (cant remember his name ser something big guy red hair gives you the mabari q) is not up to the task he will move on to ostagar so in his book no harm no faul, Duncan sees his oppetunaty to recruit You when he sees your father dying and can change his mind, its all in there talk to duncan when u start and your dad then play through and say no to duncan no matter what, then u will see what i mean 
)
2 later in the game when u talk to alestair and you ask him what will happen if u just left? then he will tell you that the GW from other nations will hafe to team up and kill the darkspawn them self so its Not the end of the world only ferelden)
3 my my my so You would actualy say that its OKAY to keep ppl in the dark until After they drink darkspawn and survive (for Gods knows how many ppl have drank some dark juice and died from it? my guess is LOTS atleast 2 to 1 or maybe even 5 to 1 who knows) and should they survive they get the Great news that they got only 30 years to live and should they be lucky enough to kill the archdemon they get the big surprise of dying right then and There!! oh happy happy day.
in my book the GW should call for voullenteirs and tell them Exacly what will happen and what that is req of them then and Only then should they desiede If they whant to join and No1 gray warden, king or the maker himself should force ppl to give up there lives for a cause that no1 whants to fight for, now then does who answer the call of the GW should be reverede as heros for giving up there lives for king and country or queen and country as is there famelies should be compensatet or some such for the loss of there brother/sister/father/mother/etc and the GWs should look in the dungeon/cells for convictet murderes that will be sentens to death and offer them the chance to redem them selves (like the dwarfves do with the legion of the dead) and should they survive the taint the GWs got new members instead of conscripting the best of the best and hope they survive the joining (ppl who have skill and could do more dmg to the darkspawns alive then dead) cause in the end it dosent take a Hero to plunge the sword into the archdemon when its breathing its last breath does it?
well i have more then likely pisst a few of you guys/gals off with my little comments hehe so throw in your 2 cents and lets see where this topic takes us ;o)
)2 later in the game when u talk to alestair and you ask him what will happen if u just left? then he will tell you that the GW from other nations will hafe to team up and kill the darkspawn them self so its Not the end of the world only ferelden
) 3 my my my so You would actualy say that its OKAY to keep ppl in the dark until After they drink darkspawn and survive (for Gods knows how many ppl have drank some dark juice and died from it? my guess is LOTS atleast 2 to 1 or maybe even 5 to 1 who knows) and should they survive they get the Great news that they got only 30 years to live and should they be lucky enough to kill the archdemon they get the big surprise of dying right then and There!! oh happy happy day.
in my book the GW should call for voullenteirs and tell them Exacly what will happen and what that is req of them then and Only then should they desiede If they whant to join and No1 gray warden, king or the maker himself should force ppl to give up there lives for a cause that no1 whants to fight for, now then does who answer the call of the GW should be reverede as heros for giving up there lives for king and country or queen and country as is there famelies should be compensatet or some such for the loss of there brother/sister/father/mother/etc and the GWs should look in the dungeon/cells for convictet murderes that will be sentens to death and offer them the chance to redem them selves (like the dwarfves do with the legion of the dead) and should they survive the taint the GWs got new members instead of conscripting the best of the best and hope they survive the joining (ppl who have skill and could do more dmg to the darkspawns alive then dead) cause in the end it dosent take a Hero to plunge the sword into the archdemon when its breathing its last breath does it?
well i have more then likely pisst a few of you guys/gals off with my little comments hehe so throw in your 2 cents and lets see where this topic takes us ;o)
#184
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 01:33
Tandemir
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Everyone in the DragonAge universe has faults, whether it be a dark past, a secret temptation, a personal belief that goes against what everyone else believes. Every single person has something about them that would probably cause the people of other fantasy worlds to be taken aback. Duncan did what he personally believed was the right thing to do in that situation. It might not make it right, or it might not make him a popular man but that is the world he lives in.
There are no paladins in Dragon Age. Even Wynne, who for all intents seems like a "goody two shoes" has regrets in her past for things she did to people. Duncan is doing what the people of his world would do, not what a paladin would do.
I think the best question for this thread isn't "Am I the only one that didn't like Duncan" but rather, "Am I the only one that didn't agree with his actions in that instance"
There are no paladins in Dragon Age. Even Wynne, who for all intents seems like a "goody two shoes" has regrets in her past for things she did to people. Duncan is doing what the people of his world would do, not what a paladin would do.
I think the best question for this thread isn't "Am I the only one that didn't like Duncan" but rather, "Am I the only one that didn't agree with his actions in that instance"
Modifié par Tandemir, 23 janvier 2010 - 01:42 .
#185
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 02:01
RangerSG
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Serion,
1) Did you talk to your father before the scene? Did you listen when your father said if Duncan asked to recruit you, he'd have to consider it (meaning, accept it)? Duncan could've pushed at any time. He didn't out of respect until he had no choice.
2) So it's ok to just sacrifice a whole nation because he couldn't get enough people? My, that's brilliant thinking. I would say that, like the Templars conducting the rite of annulment, is a Plan B. And a very BAD one. Amputation isn't what you choose to do FIRST.
3) Nations keep secrets. Many secrets, even terrible ones, are kept for very good reasons. I'd say that given the potential abuses and backlash of the GW's Joining ritual and its consequences of becoming known, there's very GOOD reasons not to do so. For the security of all.
Is it ideal? no. But guess what, like a real medieval society, these people don't live with the principles of perfect freedom and justice. They do what they must to stave off worse.
1) Did you talk to your father before the scene? Did you listen when your father said if Duncan asked to recruit you, he'd have to consider it (meaning, accept it)? Duncan could've pushed at any time. He didn't out of respect until he had no choice.
2) So it's ok to just sacrifice a whole nation because he couldn't get enough people? My, that's brilliant thinking. I would say that, like the Templars conducting the rite of annulment, is a Plan B. And a very BAD one. Amputation isn't what you choose to do FIRST.
3) Nations keep secrets. Many secrets, even terrible ones, are kept for very good reasons. I'd say that given the potential abuses and backlash of the GW's Joining ritual and its consequences of becoming known, there's very GOOD reasons not to do so. For the security of all.
Is it ideal? no. But guess what, like a real medieval society, these people don't live with the principles of perfect freedom and justice. They do what they must to stave off worse.
#186
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 02:05
ericsa
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To OP:
I totally agree, you don't drag a dad away from his family wihtout telling him it's gonna be dangerous as f*** and you'll have a 50% chance of dying before you're even a grey warden. ****ty move on Duncan's part. If he'd explained it to Jory he would've never signed up for the whole grey warden deal.
I totally agree, you don't drag a dad away from his family wihtout telling him it's gonna be dangerous as f*** and you'll have a 50% chance of dying before you're even a grey warden. ****ty move on Duncan's part. If he'd explained it to Jory he would've never signed up for the whole grey warden deal.
#187
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 02:14
Suron
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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Taleroth wrote...
There's a few others with you, myself included.No he didn't.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Jory not only drew his blade out, he also striked first.No, they're put in cages first. As evidenced by the other deserter.In a time of war, deserters are shot dead.
Yes he did, watch it again. Jory drew his sword out. Duncan did the same. Duncan approached Jory. Jory strikes with the blade, Duncan easily deflected it and killed him.
That deserter was going to get hanged anyways. So you would have preferred to put Jory in a cage then kill him?
Grey wArdens do not have the luxury of time, or cages.
No Jory drew his sword first, sure, then backed away..scared..and only wanted to leave...Duncan..drew his blade..said there was no turning back..and advanced aggressively..just because you're a blind Duncan fanboy doesn't make you right....Duncan was the aggressor..and Duncan, in -fact-, murdered Jory.
Duncan was coming at him..Jory defended himself...he struck first out of defense because Duncan was advancing with OBVIOUS intent on attacking...and I laugh at those that say Jory was given fair warning..at no point..up till he presents you with the blood are you lead to believe it's join or die.
Duncan is a murderer..and anything BUT honorable. People are just blind cause he's "lolfaceroll cool"
#188
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 02:21
RangerSG
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Suron wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Taleroth wrote...
There's a few others with you, myself included.No he didn't.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Jory not only drew his blade out, he also striked first.No, they're put in cages first. As evidenced by the other deserter.In a time of war, deserters are shot dead.
Yes he did, watch it again. Jory drew his sword out. Duncan did the same. Duncan approached Jory. Jory strikes with the blade, Duncan easily deflected it and killed him.
That deserter was going to get hanged anyways. So you would have preferred to put Jory in a cage then kill him?
Grey wArdens do not have the luxury of time, or cages.
No Jory drew his sword first, sure, then backed away..scared..and only wanted to leave...Duncan..drew his blade..said there was no turning back..and advanced aggressively..just because you're a blind Duncan fanboy doesn't make you right....Duncan was the aggressor..and Duncan, in -fact-, murdered Jory.
Duncan was coming at him..Jory defended himself...he struck first out of defense because Duncan was advancing with OBVIOUS intent on attacking...and I laugh at those that say Jory was given fair warning..at no point..up till he presents you with the blood are you lead to believe it's join or die.
Duncan is a murderer..and anything BUT honorable. People are just blind cause he's "lolfaceroll cool"
Jory drew his blade. Medeival society, that's intent to kill. Doesn't matter if he's panicked into it or not. It's treason, he was told ahead of time he could not back out. Jory out of the three of you was given the MOST chance to back out. If you talk to him it's clear that he was all gung-ho on joining the Wardens until he realized it would cost something and wasn't just about glory.
So you can say you don't like what Duncan did. You can try to claim it was excessive. But if you're trying to say that's "murder," then you don't get medeival society. You draw steel, you've committed a hostile act. And Duncan has every right to finish the fight then.
Murder would be killing an unarmed man, or killing him with the sword in its sheath. Sword drawn=duel= lawful right.
#189
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 02:48
Serion amakiir
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Jory drew his blade. Medeival society, that's intent to kill. Doesn't matter if he's panicked into it or not. It's treason, he was told ahead of time he could not back out. Jory out of the three of you was given the MOST chance to back out. If you talk to him it's clear that he was all gung-ho on joining the Wardens until he realized it would cost something and wasn't just about glory
from rangesg
sorry dont know how to make that fansy line around previus sentens)
you right ser jory whantet to join the gray wardens and didnt like the price, to bad for him!!
But if a person such as I said to duncan in every line i could telling him to go F... himself and he conscriptet me then he takes away My rights and and then tells me that the joining is dangerous and there is no backing out....hmm i never whantet to go IN to begin with duncan made that choice For me, so shouldent i hate the man that has basicly killed, and shouldent i trye to kill the man who has damned me to death or trye and fight him no matter what cause or goal he has?
i for one would rather go down fighting the ppl who killed then become their little ****!!!)
from rangesg
sorry dont know how to make that fansy line around previus sentens
) you right ser jory whantet to join the gray wardens and didnt like the price, to bad for him!!
But if a person such as I said to duncan in every line i could telling him to go F... himself and he conscriptet me then he takes away My rights and and then tells me that the joining is dangerous and there is no backing out....hmm i never whantet to go IN to begin with duncan made that choice For me, so shouldent i hate the man that has basicly killed, and shouldent i trye to kill the man who has damned me to death or trye and fight him no matter what cause or goal he has?
i for one would rather go down fighting the ppl who killed then become their little ****!!!
)
#190
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 04:16
fightright2
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Ok. We know Jory has been complaining and yet he still goes ahead. He could have backed out at anytime but continued to go ahead with it. If he had doubts he should have voiced it WAY before the joining. Not right at the moment of it. If he was too scared then he should have said so. But he knew that the joining was top secret. He knew that it was sooooooooooo top secret that it was deadly. We know now that not only is it roulette deadly by drinking it, but it is also deadly in that you cannot know the truth and walk away with the knowledge.
I don't think I can see someone like Jory keeping his mouth shut after knowing the truth and going on his way. He has shown already that he has loose lips the whole time by (complaining) in voicing his doubts.
In fact, I see him telling others how dangerous it is to join just so he could justify his cowardice to walk away.
It's true he says he has a wife and child but I think he said that as a cowardly way out. Because he chose to go and do it BEFORE going, knowing that he could die. In fact, he thought by doing so it would mean keeping his family safe since the darkspawn were coming anyways.
I also see him telling everyone the truth just to persuade others to his side to be against it (again just to justify his cowardice of joining — and that kind of gossip could mean the death of recruiting more Grey Wardens.
In the game YOU become a Grey Warden. And that means protecting the secret as well.
Sacrificing the life of one for the lives of many.
With that responsibility on your shoulders could you really trust that a guy like that keep that to himself?
My best bet is that he would tell his wife and perhaps brother or best friend on why he returned and why he isn't one. Revealing the high price to the joining.
As a leader, responsibilities and tough decisions go hand in hand.
Perfect example: Military leaders often send men to their death knowing a goal has to be achieved to save the lives of many.
Duncan's only choice was to preserve the secret. If Jory was smart, he should have taken his chances on surviving the taint and being able to fight the darkspawn.
Btw, murder is by definition a crime of passion.
It involves the emotion of hatred and anger.
I don't believe he hated Jory or was angry with him. In fact, I believe Duncan did it with remorse to what he had to do.
I mean he has to know that in each joining there's a chance he may have to "preserve" the secret. I don't think he likes it, it's not pretty, but he does have the courage to do what is necessary to maintain the future of Grey Wardens recruitment.
And as a Grey Warden YOU now have that burden.
Also, look at Alistair, he betrayed the templars secret for you who shares it with Sten, who is NOT a Grey Warden, but a Qunari.
I hope to hell, that we end up on a quest to gather future recruits and are faced with a decision like that of Duncan's. T'would be a perfect fitting to see what we reap in our choices being made.
I don't think I can see someone like Jory keeping his mouth shut after knowing the truth and going on his way. He has shown already that he has loose lips the whole time by (complaining) in voicing his doubts.
In fact, I see him telling others how dangerous it is to join just so he could justify his cowardice to walk away.
It's true he says he has a wife and child but I think he said that as a cowardly way out. Because he chose to go and do it BEFORE going, knowing that he could die. In fact, he thought by doing so it would mean keeping his family safe since the darkspawn were coming anyways.
I also see him telling everyone the truth just to persuade others to his side to be against it (again just to justify his cowardice of joining — and that kind of gossip could mean the death of recruiting more Grey Wardens.
In the game YOU become a Grey Warden. And that means protecting the secret as well.
Sacrificing the life of one for the lives of many.
With that responsibility on your shoulders could you really trust that a guy like that keep that to himself?
My best bet is that he would tell his wife and perhaps brother or best friend on why he returned and why he isn't one. Revealing the high price to the joining.
As a leader, responsibilities and tough decisions go hand in hand.
Perfect example: Military leaders often send men to their death knowing a goal has to be achieved to save the lives of many.
Duncan's only choice was to preserve the secret. If Jory was smart, he should have taken his chances on surviving the taint and being able to fight the darkspawn.
Btw, murder is by definition a crime of passion.
It involves the emotion of hatred and anger.
I don't believe he hated Jory or was angry with him. In fact, I believe Duncan did it with remorse to what he had to do.
I mean he has to know that in each joining there's a chance he may have to "preserve" the secret. I don't think he likes it, it's not pretty, but he does have the courage to do what is necessary to maintain the future of Grey Wardens recruitment.
And as a Grey Warden YOU now have that burden.
Also, look at Alistair, he betrayed the templars secret for you who shares it with Sten, who is NOT a Grey Warden, but a Qunari.
I hope to hell, that we end up on a quest to gather future recruits and are faced with a decision like that of Duncan's. T'would be a perfect fitting to see what we reap in our choices being made.
Modifié par fightright2, 23 janvier 2010 - 04:18 .
#191
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 05:12
SusanStoHelit
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Serion amakiir wrote...
When you see a poster whom you want to quote (that's what the 'fancy lines' are), if you look at the dark grey bar just above what they typed it will have a link that says Quote in yellow writing. Click on it, and it will take you to a box, where the poster's statements are surrounded by lines. And you can type your response at the bottom.
sorry dont know how to make that fansy line around previus sentens
When you see a poster whom you want to quote (that's what the 'fancy lines' are), if you look at the dark grey bar just above what they typed it will have a link that says Quote in yellow writing. Click on it, and it will take you to a box, where the poster's statements are surrounded by lines. And you can type your response at the bottom.
#192
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 05:26
Commander Alrix
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the seasoned duncan in the game is a very cool, collected char. he was very likable to me.
on that note, i dont think we saw enough of duncan to really get to know this new, seasoned duncan. the duncan from the calling novel was an 18 year old kid, and a rogue in all senses of the word: sneaking, stealing, murdering. and then there is duncan in the early game, who is completely different, and there is almost nothing putting light on his maturing, not to mention a lot of other question marks that come up inbetween the calling and the game. not to mention he shows no signs of rogueiness in game. he even wears white. you cant stealth in white.
on that note, i dont think we saw enough of duncan to really get to know this new, seasoned duncan. the duncan from the calling novel was an 18 year old kid, and a rogue in all senses of the word: sneaking, stealing, murdering. and then there is duncan in the early game, who is completely different, and there is almost nothing putting light on his maturing, not to mention a lot of other question marks that come up inbetween the calling and the game. not to mention he shows no signs of rogueiness in game. he even wears white. you cant stealth in white.
Modifié par Commander Alrix, 23 janvier 2010 - 05:28 .
#193
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 05:34
Ariella
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Wintermist wrote...
AtreiyaN7 wrote...
Well, I think being a Grey Warden isn't just about combat ability. It's also about being able to sacrifice yourself for the greater good, and Jory couldn't do that with the baggage of his wife & child, etc. If it had come time to face the archdemon and Riordan had told Sir Jory about what was necessary, I imagine that Jory would have cut & run, flipped out, panicked, refused, etc. just like he did at the Joining ceremony.
But I do understand Jory. He has a family, he thought he was joining for the honor, instead he's faced, at the very initiation ritual that he may actually die right there and then. Had he known that from the start I doubt very much he would have wanted to become a Grey Warden. He wanted to do his part, but he certainly didn't want to leave a widow behind just for the sake of joining. And he's not a fresh new recruit, he has combat experience.
Just out of couriosity, then WHY did Jory do it? It's not unknown that the Grey Wardens give up ALL family ties. He abondoned his wife and unborn child for the Glory of being a Grey Warden. I mean, that's all he talks about... Glory this and Glory that.
#194
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 05:48
DarthWarduke
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Duncan is kind of a scumbag IMO. He basically drags you away from your home, forces you to some battle. Then he never mentions anything about the joining ceremony and it involves drinking blood and people dying. Sounds like David Koresh and the branch davidians in waco texas to me.
#195
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 05:58
Ariella
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DarthWarduke wrote...
Duncan is kind of a scumbag IMO. He basically drags you away from your home, forces you to some battle. Then he never mentions anything about the joining ceremony and it involves drinking blood and people dying. Sounds like David Koresh and the branch davidians in waco texas to me.
Comparing Ducan to David Koresh, is silly. Ducan is the commander of an established order which had saved Thedas four prior times versus David Koresh who claimed he was the Messiah.
#196
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 06:07
fightright2
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DarthWarduke wrote...
Duncan is kind of a scumbag IMO. He basically drags you away from your home, forces you to some battle. Then he never mentions anything about the joining ceremony and it involves drinking blood and people dying. Sounds like David Koresh and the branch davidians in waco texas to me.
Drag? Really? Last I remember I accepted and got my father's blessing to do so. Seeing that the Blight was the greatest threat of all.
#197
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 06:09
SusanStoHelit
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Do I like Duncan - no. Do I respect him for making tough choices - yes.
If you talk to Jory before the joining, which you have ample opportunity to do, he was warned that there was a ritual, and that it was dangerous. He knew the grey wardens cut family ties - everyone in Ferelden and beyond knew that. But he didn't believe it - he believed in glory. War has nothing to do with glory - ever.
He was scared all along - but refused to back out earlier - probably ashamed to do so, ashamed to admit he was scared. In the end, he brought it on himself. If he hadn't drawn his sword he might have been talked into it, into taking the risk. But I don't think he'd have made a good warden.
Even my good-two-shoes wardens agreed on that. And Alistair is appalled at what happened, just look at his face in that cut-scene. And genuinely saddened at both deaths.
Do I think the joining and how it works should be a secret - I'm ambivalent. I think it would be better to make it public knowledge, then people would understand the price wardens pay and WHY they are needed against blights and darkspawn and archdemons. BUT, I would also fear the reaction of the Chantry, and how they might in turn influence the populace. Wardens becoming ghouls! The darkspawn taint among us! Evil walks the world in human form! Or something along those lines, anyway. I must reluctantly conclude that it's probably wisest to keep it a secret. With exactly the cost that entails.
I do think there is a middle ground, however. Make it known to potential recruits that there is a ritual - and that it could kill them - without saying what the ritual actually consists of. Let them back out gracefully with no further knowledge, if they don't want to take that risk. Then they've been warned - and if they have to pay the price, so be it.
If you talk to Jory before the joining, which you have ample opportunity to do, he was warned that there was a ritual, and that it was dangerous. He knew the grey wardens cut family ties - everyone in Ferelden and beyond knew that. But he didn't believe it - he believed in glory. War has nothing to do with glory - ever.
He was scared all along - but refused to back out earlier - probably ashamed to do so, ashamed to admit he was scared. In the end, he brought it on himself. If he hadn't drawn his sword he might have been talked into it, into taking the risk. But I don't think he'd have made a good warden.
Even my good-two-shoes wardens agreed on that. And Alistair is appalled at what happened, just look at his face in that cut-scene. And genuinely saddened at both deaths.
Do I think the joining and how it works should be a secret - I'm ambivalent. I think it would be better to make it public knowledge, then people would understand the price wardens pay and WHY they are needed against blights and darkspawn and archdemons. BUT, I would also fear the reaction of the Chantry, and how they might in turn influence the populace. Wardens becoming ghouls! The darkspawn taint among us! Evil walks the world in human form! Or something along those lines, anyway. I must reluctantly conclude that it's probably wisest to keep it a secret. With exactly the cost that entails.
I do think there is a middle ground, however. Make it known to potential recruits that there is a ritual - and that it could kill them - without saying what the ritual actually consists of. Let them back out gracefully with no further knowledge, if they don't want to take that risk. Then they've been warned - and if they have to pay the price, so be it.
#198
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 06:30
DarthWarduke
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Ariella wrote...
DarthWarduke wrote...
Duncan is kind of a scumbag IMO. He basically drags you away from your home, forces you to some battle. Then he never mentions anything about the joining ceremony and it involves drinking blood and people dying. Sounds like David Koresh and the branch davidians in waco texas to me.
Comparing Ducan to David Koresh, is silly. Ducan is the commander of an established order which had saved Thedas four prior times versus David Koresh who claimed he was the Messiah.
Ok then, I will compare him to Jim Jones. Lets jump back to 1978, remember that little incident in Jonestown? Guy shows up, "Hi everybody I'm Jim and I have a proposition for you. lets all join my little group known as the peoples temple and it will be grand. Here.. have a glass of punch"... shhh dont tell everyone it is laced with cyanide.
#199
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 06:39
xSammy13x
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For me, hating/liking Duncan truly depends on the Origin you pick.
City Elf = Awesome.
Dalish Elf = HATED him.
City Elf = Awesome.
Dalish Elf = HATED him.
#200
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 09:40
SusanStoHelit
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DarthWarduke wrote...
Ariella wrote...
DarthWarduke wrote...
Duncan is kind of a scumbag IMO. He basically drags you away from your home, forces you to some battle. Then he never mentions anything about the joining ceremony and it involves drinking blood and people dying. Sounds like David Koresh and the branch davidians in waco texas to me.
Comparing Ducan to David Koresh, is silly. Ducan is the commander of an established order which had saved Thedas four prior times versus David Koresh who claimed he was the Messiah.
Ok then, I will compare him to Jim Jones. Lets jump back to 1978, remember that little incident in Jonestown? Guy shows up, "Hi everybody I'm Jim and I have a proposition for you. lets all join my little group known as the peoples temple and it will be grand. Here.. have a glass of punch"... shhh dont tell everyone it is laced with cyanide.
You still don't get it. Even if you don't like him - or hate him - it's not a valid comparison. Duncan is not from some weird religious cult. He doesn't claim to be the Messiah. He doesn't have a message from God - or even from Glod. He isn't seeking converts. He's not proclaiming salvation.
He's a member of an order that's been around for thousands of years, whose one vital task is a real one. The darkspawn, the blight, and the Archdemons are real. They're not the product of a warped mind - or a vision - or deliberately crafted for his own nefarious means. They are actually real. And he, and all Wardens, are charged with defending Thedas from them - above all other concerns.
Now I don't much like Duncan, even though I respect the order. I don't happen to believe that the end always justifies the means. But Duncan is right. There is a blight and it is coming. There is an Archdemon, and it is a threat.
Stop trying to draw comparisons with insane religious zealots and cultists. You're not helping your case. And any undergrad student of mine who handed in such an argument would get the following grade: Fail (Epic Fail even).
Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 23 janvier 2010 - 09:46 .
