84 réponses à ce sujet

[rft]

I myself was very dissapointed with Anders "personality". I thought he was going to be sarcastic and funny like Alistair was, (Which he was in DA:O) but instead, they went for a more serious approach to him. Sure he would sometimes crack a joke or two but nowhere near where I expected him to be like.

[dragonflight288]

I kind of was. I think they tried to justify it with the presence of Justice. (justify...Justice...didn't even mean to make that pun)

When they are merged together, Anders can't ignore injustice any more than Justice can. And Anders does say that Justice is cold and hard. Not benevolent or forgiving.

[rft]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I kind of was. I think they tried to justify it with the presence of Justice. (justify...Justice...didn't even mean to make that pun)

When they are merged together, Anders can't ignore injustice any more than Justice can. And Anders does say that Justice is cold and hard. Not benevolent or forgiving.

It does give an excuse, but still, alot of people was expecting Anders to be humirous.

[LobselVith8]

When you consider what he's been through, it's understandable. He wasn't going to be the same person he once was when he's merged with another entity, and he's focused on the plight of all mages in Thedas. I thought he was one of the most complex characters in DA2.

[KenKenpachi]

Not really, he was rather well done, though insane, I knew the momment I seen him in that nice black robe he was up to something. What surprised me was the extent of it.

What I wonder though is something Merrill said. "We don't see any difference in them, and we know that we should be warry of them all" well something like that. What if short of persona there is no such things as Spirits and Demons, as in they are one in the same, maybe that would make Justice a Demon now.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 25 mars 2011 - 03:04 .

[Beerfish]

I had intended to play with him in my group pretty well the whole time this play through but I gave him the boot for Merrill. Not a badly done character by any means but he just rubs me the wrong way (and since this is my 2nd play through i now have a bias)

[LobselVith8]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Not really, he was rather well done, though insane, I knew the momment I seen him in that nice black robe he was up to something. What surprised me was the extent of it.

What I wonder though is something Merrill said. "We don't see any difference in them, and we know that we should be warry of them all" well something like that. What if short of persona there is no such things as Spirits and Demons, as in they are one in the same, maybe that would make Justice a Demon now.

Based on what Anders says, the differences between spirits and demons is based on religious docturine - he addresses the First Children of the Maker when he's explaining why there are differences, and Merrill doesn't agree with his interpretation of the denizens of the Fade because she's not Andrastian.

In Awakening, Justice mentions that the differences between 'spirits' and 'demons' is essentially that demons are spirits who were corrupted by their desires, and admits it could happen to him.

[Gamer Ftw]

he does crack jokes.
varric says a man and a dwarf walk into a bar.
Anders"the dwarf says you're lucky your so short,that hurt like mad."

[dewayne31]

actually i thought anders was capable of what he did in awakening. and he wanted wreckless with his magic too.

[LobselVith8]

PurebredCorn wrote...

I have a difficult... *very* difficult, time getting past what he does in the end. I too am biased against him and still can't even think about having him in my party. I can't even look at him in game without the overwhelming urge to want to smash him in the face. I really wish I could "forget" about his actions, because I think he's an absolutely brilliant character.

He wanted to see his people free and put an end to their subjugation. Considering that it worked - since the Circles broke free from Chantry and templar control - I'm not certain what the alternative would have been, besides another thousand years of slavery.

[Sylvanpyxie]

My only real disappointment with Anders was that he was so weak when it came to controlling his rage, and Justice. In Awakening he always seemed to be extremely strong willed and when i started up my Rival Romance with him in my first DA2 run, i was left with a strange sense of woe when he proved to be weaker than i believed. That said my disappointment faded when i reached the end of the game and he proved to be stronger when the guilt set in.

All in all i think he is one of my favourite Bioware characters. He's a lot deeper than just: Grr, argh, angst.

My opinion on it anyhow.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 25 mars 2011 - 04:40 .

[LobselVith8]

PurebredCorn wrote...

... spare me. This does not justify his actions.

Attacking the very institution that is responsible for enslaving his people? That's been debated over and over again in the threads with no consensus, but I'd rather hear what your alternative suggestion would be. What do you think Anders should have done instead, that would have inspired the mages to emancipate themselves?

[SupidSeep]

If Anders had created a small explosion that paints the inside of Meredith's office with demonic ichor (bonus points with her caught inside at the time), my Hawke would have happily gone along.

[LobselVith8]

PurebredCorn wrote...

That "institution" was comprised of people. Call it what you will, it was an unjustifiable extremist act by a terrorist that will only make things much harder for the mages. There is nothing that you can say that will *ever* convince me otherwise so save your "breath".

That's one way to look at it. Another is that it was comprised of members of an organization that was involved in a thousand years of slavery. And since the mages have been slaves with no basic rights for a millennia, I doubt things would have gotten any harder for them. Since Anders actions lead to all the Circles in Thedas breaking free from their oppressors, it lead to the emancipation of the enslaved. Anders will likely be hailed by the mages as a freedom fighter, and we already know Hawke is seen as a hero if he sided with the Kirkwall Circle against Knight-Commander Meredith.

Again, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I already addressed that the discussion never reaches a consensus. We can continue this line of discussion, but since neither of us are going to change the other's mind, I really don't see the point. If you think Anders should have done something different to achieve the emancipation of the mages, I'm genuinely curious to hear what it is.

[griffondor]

...

Modifié par griffondor, 26 mars 2011 - 01:02 .

[kyles3]

LobselVith8 wrote...

That's one way to look at it. Another is that it was comprised of members of an organization that was involved in a thousand years of slavery. 

Not disagreeing with your point, but I feel compelled to point out that it's also an organization that provides for people who have nothing. Remember the chantries in DA:O? All full of refugees.

This is one area where I think DA2 fails to represent all sides fairly; we see good mages and good templars, but the "good" face of the Chantry is a woman who has the power to make things better for at least some people but instead does nothing and helps no one.

Modifié par kyles3, 25 mars 2011 - 11:57 .

[Hellosanta]

Yes, I have to say he's a bit too much serious, and even he's broodier than Fenris : ( He could have used some humors, I think.

[Hellosanta]

kyles3 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That's one way to look at it. Another is that it was comprised of members of an organization that was involved in a thousand years of slavery. 

Not disagreeing with your point, but I feel compelled to point out that it's also an organization that provides for people who have nothing. Remember the chantries in DA:O? All full of refugees.

This is one area where I think DA2 fails to represent all sides fairly; we see good mages and good templars, but the "good" face of the Chantry is a woman who has the power to make things better for at least some people but instead does nothing and helps no one.

Seriously, the grand cleric should have done something. She just sits there and watches for several years while mages and templars are hunting each other. 

[Torax]

Keep in mind only how Anders considered it slavery. The chantry was keeping them in a circle to also protect them. Young mages killed because the crops didn't flourish as well as the year before. Things of that nature. Hunting down the local magic users to blame for about everything. They are feared by majority of people on thedas. Just to bring some sort of conflict you run into select few who find it wrong and evil.

Jowan didn't want to be Tranquil. Turns out they were doing it because it was believed he was a blood mage and they were right. Most of the Magi seem happy with the circle and their life there. Ulrich was an extremist who took what he thought was his chance for taking back his home circle tower while there was no king. Granted he ended up being taken over by a pride demon. But he was an extremist who killed most of the Magi in his way that fought against him.

In Dragon Age 2 you have a lot more conflict and it's crammed on us constantly about how abused they are so on. Anders didn't leave the circle previously out of slavery. He seemed more like he just wanted freedom. What slavery is there to be honest. You either perform the harrowing and live, become a Tranquil or death. But honestly I think besides Meredith's controlled circle, I think many circles wouldn't mind keeping an apprentice through to their elder ages as an apprentice as long as they weren't a risk to those around them.

Tranquility is basically a mercy and even then I highly doubt that is fully slavery. Truth be told in DA2 the Tranquil come across far more animated in DA2 compared to origins.

[Hellosanta]

Torax wrote...

Keep in mind only how Anders considered it slavery. The chantry was keeping them in a circle to also protect them. Young mages killed because the crops didn't flourish as well as the year before. Things of that nature. Hunting down the local magic users to blame for about everything. They are feared by majority of people on thedas. Just to bring some sort of conflict you run into select few who find it wrong and evil.

Jowan didn't want to be Tranquil. Turns out they were doing it because it was believed he was a blood mage and they were right. Most of the Magi seem happy with the circle and their life there. Ulrich was an extremist who took what he thought was his chance for taking back his home circle tower while there was no king. Granted he ended up being taken over by a pride demon. But he was an extremist who killed most of the Magi in his way that fought against him.

In Dragon Age 2 you have a lot more conflict and it's crammed on us constantly about how abused they are so on. Anders didn't leave the circle previously out of slavery. He seemed more like he just wanted freedom. What slavery is there to be honest. You either perform the harrowing and live, become a Tranquil or death. But honestly I think besides Meredith's controlled circle, I think many circles wouldn't mind keeping an apprentice through to their elder ages as an apprentice as long as they weren't a risk to those around them.

Tranquility is basically a mercy and even then I highly doubt that is fully slavery. Truth be told in DA2 the Tranquil come across far more animated in DA2 compared to origins.

We probably never understand how it feels like to be a tranquil. As how mages describe it, tranquility is not a mercy, it's even worse than the death or to be possessed by demon.  

I agree that some part of chantry does protect mages from normal folks. However it' is also the chantry which has made mage as a such fearful/monstrous creature to be hunted down.

That said, I think Kirkwall's circle vs. chantry situation gets to the end where it explodes mostly because of Meredith's extreme measure. I'm not blaming the Templar order, I'm blaming Meredith. Torbius (a friend of Hawke's father) says once, there have been times when the rule can be breached to serve the better cause. At that time, there were friendships existed between circle mages and templars. This .. will never be restored, right? 

Modifié par Hellosanta, 26 mars 2011 - 01:14 .

[Adynata]

I have to agree with some of what I've read here. I'm bothered most by the fact that you can't stop Anders (or Merrill for that matter) from going forward with their respecitvely stupid plans even if you are in a relationship with them. It sort of devalues the prupose of develop LI's in the game. I'm not upset he blew up a chantry or that Merrill made me kill the whole Dalish clan, what bothers me is that neither event seemed to make sense for the character causing it. I want to blame Justice for the change in Anders, but that seems silly, since I don't remember Justice being all that angry (mostly confused and kind of naive). I guess we are to accept that he changed once inside Anders, but I never got the impression in Awakening that Anders was filled with rage and vengeance. Afterall, he didn't say that he took Justice in so that he could be more powerful to stop the templars, but to "help a friend".

[DeaHamlet]

I wasn't disappointed.
I had Varric and Isabela for comedic relief and they were plenty haha.