176 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

MisterJB wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

i hope they make the OGB canon. i know it'd upset tons of people who didnt do it. but thats such an interesting story thread that its gotta be followed up on. cutting that from being heavily included in future games because people were boring and decided to die instead is a mistake.

them tip-toeing around peoples DA:O possibilities really limits what they can do. bioware needs to man up and just say "look this is canon, we're sorry if it doesnt match up with your playthrough, but its what works best with the story so we're declaring this canon."

seriously though, why WOULDNT you have the OGB? seems silyl not to, its such a cool idea for a couple of lame peoples saves to ruin it.

While I agree that the OGB storyline is extremely interesting, if Bioware does what you're suggesting, it stops being Bioware and becomes Bethesda.
The import feature is something I absolutely love about Bioware's games and I would not see it removed.

i dont remember bethesda having any ties between games. so canon in their games never matters.

anyways. maybe set it up so theres some loop-hole that makes it work out that she still got it regardless of you not doing the ritual. i mean its a real shame that they either have to ignore it despite being one of the most interesting loose threads in the DA series. or disregard some players choices in the first game.

like with the whole leliana thing, apparently a bunch of people are angry that she's back because they killed her. before her being back i didnt know anyone actually went through with killing her, it was like the dumbest choice in DA:O lol.

i mean you have no logical reason based on the story to defile the ashes other than being an unrealistic jerk. reminds me of at the end of FO3 *SPOILERS FOR THAT GAME********** where you put the virus in the water at the very end of the game, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, just evil for the sake of being evil. which is boring.

[Dave of Canada]

Hope not, I don't give a damn about Morrigan.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 25 mars 2011 - 07:16 .

[fluorine7]

I thought OGB is gonna be PC or NPC for Dragon Age 2 when I finished Origin.

I think there's always a way to get around it, even Warden decided to kill the archdemon without Morrigan's ritual. It is very easy to write out as "Morrigan managed to get the Old God essence through other magical means, blah blah blah". Even if you agree to her ritual, you still end up killing the dragon, there's no additional effect (other than you survived the fight). It could very well be Morrigan get what she wants, and you died for nothing. LOL.

I think Bioware will use OGB at one point of Dragon Age series, probably as PC, but most likely as NPC. It's too much a plot mechanism not to use.

[allankles]

I've nothing against Morrigan but her baby should be reserved for a DA novel. 

[Dave of Canada]

fluorine7 wrote...

I thought OGB is gonna be PC or NPC for Dragon Age 2 when I finished Origin.

I think there's always a way to get around it, even Warden decided to kill the archdemon without Morrigan's ritual. It is very easy to write out as "Morrigan managed to get the Old God essence through other magical means, blah blah blah".

Not as easy as that, Warden wouldn't have died if she got it.

[Icy Magebane]

Two things: Why would anybody want retcons that violate other player's games? That is selfish, no matter how interesting you think the OGB storyline is.

And secondly, defiling the Urn of Sacred Ashes is a smart move if you want to harm the Chantry. You don't get many other chances to destroy an artifact that might strengthen their position in the future. Plus, doing this gives access to the Reaver spec, which is useful if you aren't metagaming. After all, there's no way the Warden would have known about this without doing the mission, regardless of the fact that it unlocks on all playthroughs. It's not that bad an idea, and not at all pointless. At least, I don't see it that way... evil for evil's sake is when you have the trapped spirit teach you Arcane Warrior, and then toss it aside without freeing it. Fun, but no real point in that.

[Beren082]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Hope not, I don't give a damn about Morrigan.

It doesn't have to be Morrigan's.

I don't see why so many people are opposed to even the notion of the old god being the player in one of the next DA's. It doesn't have to break "canon" (whatever that is) and it can easily represent one of the most versitile characters in any bioware game. ****, it's a living deity, starting out as a mere mortal. How would that not be badass? You can even choose race and gender again, as a dwarf or elf can do the ritual and if the child is not canon then gender isn't either, or if you didn't do the ritual in the first place, any number of bodies can house this freed old god, including male, female, human, elf, dwarf, or even Qunari. Such a being would also be perfect to bring about the "worldwide change" that everyone seems to be alluding to. so, how would it spoil the story and why does it have to break everyones decisions in previous games?

[TillyBomas]

i dont remember bethesda having any ties between games. so canon in their games never matters.

anyways.
maybe set it up so theres some loop-hole that makes it work out that
she still got it regardless of you not doing the ritual. i mean its a
real shame that they either have to ignore it despite being one of the
most interesting loose threads in the DA series. or disregard some
players choices in the first game.

like with the whole leliana
thing, apparently a bunch of people are angry that she's back because
they killed her. before her being back i didnt know anyone actually went
through with killing her, it was like the dumbest choice in DA:O lol.

i
mean you have no logical reason based on the story to defile the ashes
other than being an unrealistic jerk. reminds me of at the end of FO3
*SPOILERS FOR THAT GAME********** where you put the virus in the water
at the very end of the game, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever,
just evil for the sake of being evil. which is boring.

Well, bethesda did have ties with their games.... just not an obvious one.  Then mention the story plots of arena, the conflicts in morrowwind in Oblivion.  I am not sure about what happens in Daggerfall, or if that gets a real mention.  Hell I do believe there is even some dialoge about that one battlespire or what ever its called.  NExt one however, will be far removed, taking place some 200 years later or something...

As for saying that leliana being dead is dumb... my first play through, I killed her.  I was a bitter Dalish Elf, I killed anyone that betrayed me.  If I could have been a mage, I would have practiced blood magic, but I was a warrior.  2 handed.  I sided with the mages during the Circle, but the Cult presented very convincing arguments.  Why could Andraste NOT be a dragon?  Why were the ashs keeping the dragon from moving on?  So, I destroied them, and joined the cult.  I was disappointed that the Dragon that attacks Ferelden later, makes no apperance in the game.  Perhaps its because the attack didn't happen yet.. but to me, that was an interesting story arch.

So, seeing her DID throw me for a loop, considering I left her dead in the temple. Now, there are ways around this, the maker resserected her... she is inhabited by a spirit.. ect.  Plausable, so I don't whine to much about it. 

As for the OGB, this is a love/hate thing.  Some people want it resolved, others wish it to go away.  Truth, I never liked Morrigan much.  I wasn't friends with anyone in my first playthrough.  When she made the offer, it sounded like a bad idea.  I never killed Flemeth, I never made it with Morrigan, and so the aspects in game 2 seem a bit out of place.  

If the OGB is canon and the focus of the next game, then it is.  I can deal.  If it is a choice in the next game based on the Choices made, well... thats an option I am ok with too. 

[MisterJB]

Clonedzero wrote...
dont remember bethesda having any ties between games. so canon in their games never matters.

anyways. maybe set it up so theres some loop-hole that makes it work out that she still got it regardless of you not doing the ritual. i mean its a real shame that they either have to ignore it despite being one of the most interesting loose threads in the DA series. or disregard some players choices in the first game.

like with the whole leliana thing, apparently a bunch of people are angry that she's back because they killed her. before her being back i didnt know anyone actually went through with killing her, it was like the dumbest choice in DA:O lol.

i mean you have no logical reason based on the story to defile the ashes other than being an unrealistic jerk. reminds me of at the end of FO3 *SPOILERS FOR THAT GAME********** where you put the virus in the water at the very end of the game, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, just evil for the sake of being evil. which is boring.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said Bethesda. I was thinking about the Fallout series. The New California Republic is canon despite the fact that you can prevent it in the first game. Or how it's canon that the Lone Wanderer helped Moira write the Wasteland survival Guide.

There are actual logical reasons to destroy the Ashes. For example, imagine that the Divine decides to have them moved to Orlais and the Black Divine tries to prevent this. Holy War.

[CarlSpackler]

Personally Morrigan is one of my favourite of all Bioware's characters, so I certainly am hoping she will play a significant role in the future.

That being said I would be surprised if Bioware made the DR cannon given David's statements contradicting that. He said something along the lines of not wanting to eliminate what in his mind was the single biggest choice in Origins.

Additionally, it would also seem to revisit the Baldur's gate storyline a little too closely. Sure its not a one-to-one comparrison, but being a PC with the soul of an old god is certainly similar to the child of Baal storyline.

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 25 mars 2011 - 07:34 .

[fluorine7]

Dave of Canada wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

I thought OGB is gonna be PC or NPC for Dragon Age 2 when I finished Origin.

I think there's always a way to get around it, even Warden decided to kill the archdemon without Morrigan's ritual. It is very easy to write out as "Morrigan managed to get the Old God essence through other magical means, blah blah blah".

Not as easy as that, Warden wouldn't have died if she got it.

The way I see it, there's 2 possible outcome: 

1, Warden (or pals) perform the ritual, survive the fight, Morrigan run off with OGB. 

2, Warden didn't proform the ritual, and died after killing the archdemon. In order for OGB to exist and appear in future Dragon Age games, the game could go as "Morrigan perform another secret ritual without Warden's knowledge and received the essense nonetheless". After all, as smart as Flemeth, she got to plan for the (rather huge) possibility that Warden refuse to perform some creepy sex ritual with obvious dangerous outcome. 

So yeah.... OGB will make an appearence. 

[AlexXIV]

I think David Gaider said already that he considered it 'lame' if there was another option for Morrigan to get the OGB. For once because if there was another, easier way, why ask the Warden to begin with? Why would she spoil a secret for nothing? Also it would render the Ultimate Sacrifice silly. Everyone who chose it would look like an idiot to die for nothing. Last but not least, the OGB was the purpose why she accompanied the Warden to begin with. So I take it a future game will work with, or without OGB.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 25 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[MisterJB]

fluorine7 wrote...
 After all, as smart as Flemeth, she got to plan for the (rather huge) possibility that Warden refuse to perform some creepy sex ritual with obvious dangerous outcome. 

Huge possibility? Let's see, in one hand there's sex with an exotic woman and eternal glory after slaying the Archdemon.
On the other hand, death or being overshadowed.
Let's face it, in real life, how many man would refuse the ritual?

Modifié par MisterJB, 25 mars 2011 - 07:55 .

[TillyBomas]

Well, I wouldn't mind more on the 'intelligent free thinking Darkspawn' from Awakenings. I disliked that game (nto calling it an expansion). But, it was an interesting point of view. So I could see that.

Exalted March is another thing that would be interesting to the story. There was hints (in my game anyway) about a possible march against the dwarfs of Orzimmar, or possibly Ferelden (For both freeing mages and housing the Dalish Elves, which was another disappointing thing).

However, I never liked games where you play the child/embodyment of a god. Why I was never a big fan of the God of War series. Because they make little practical sense. By GOW 3, for example.. you have killed 2 gods already? (Perhaps just the one..) become a god, get your god hood revoked, free titans, and yet... you can die to little athenian archers.....

Anyhow, if they do something with it, they do. I like the idea of it not being Morrigan's baby persay, but could come from various walks of life. Its an interesting idea.

[TillyBomas]

MisterJB wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...
 After all, as smart as Flemeth, she got to plan for the (rather huge) possibility that Warden refuse to perform some creepy sex ritual with obvious dangerous outcome. 

Huge possibility? Let's see, in one hand there's sex with an exotic woman and eternal glory after slaying the Archdemon.
On the other hand, death or being overshadowed.
Let's face it, in real life, how many people would refuse the ritual?

True... for the most part.  However, its the AD soul that kills the warden, so if she managed to get it without the ritual, then the AD soul would have been implanted in her instead, thus leaving the warden alive, thus messing up the entier continuity, thus causing havok and destruction.

Just saying

[PPR223]

I seriously doubt the Old God Child will be of any importance at all, let alone being the protagonist. If it is not canon, then this is just not going to happen. We may get one or two references about the Old god child, but I don't see us getting much more.

Modifié par PPR223, 25 mars 2011 - 08:06 .

[Halo Quea]

MisterJB wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...
 After all, as smart as Flemeth, she got to plan for the (rather huge) possibility that Warden refuse to perform some creepy sex ritual with obvious dangerous outcome. 

Huge possibility? Let's see, in one hand there's sex with an exotic woman and eternal glory after slaying the Archdemon.
On the other hand, death or being overshadowed.
Let's face it, in real life, how many man would refuse the ritual?

Well..................you have a point.   But it stil screams to me as loud as any trap.   Sandal's prophesy doesn't make me feel any better about it either.  The OGB may bring change to the world, but that doesn't mean that it won't be horribly brought about.

[fluorine7]

MisterJB wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...
 After all, as smart as Flemeth, she got to plan for the (rather huge) possibility that Warden refuse to perform some creepy sex ritual with obvious dangerous outcome. 

Huge possibility? Let's see, in one hand there's sex with an exotic woman and eternal glory after slaying the Archdemon.
On the other hand, death or being overshadowed.
Let's face it, in real life, how many man would refuse the ritual?

I would. But I'm not a man....LOL. 

I see your point, but I do believe there's reasonable chance for a nobel character to refuse such ritual. I personally can not see Duncan agree on this, if he's alive and given such option. I think for smart schemer like Flemeth, who determined to have OGB, she got to have a backup plan. 

Modifié par fluorine7, 25 mars 2011 - 08:31 .

[MisterJB]

fluorine7 wrote...
I would. But I'm not a man....LOL.

I see your point, but I do believe there's reasonable chance for a nobel character to refuse such ritual. I personally can not see Duncan agree on this, if he's alive and given such option. I think for smart schemer like Flemeth, who determined to have OGB, she got to have a backup plan.

You would refuse a ritual that migth save your life? Really?

It's true, Duncan would most likely refuse the ritual but, truth be told, he is a bit of a lunatic and a year or two from becoming a Ghoul. The Warden still has 30 years ahead of him/her.
I agree that logically Flemeth should have a backup plan. After all, Morrigan could have been killed long before reaching Urthemiel.
But, apparently Flemeth didn't have a backup plan. According to Riordan, the souls of the Warden and the Archdemon destroy each other. I think that the keyword here is "destroy". The Warden kills the Archdemon and then destroys it's soul. Since a Warden who refuses the Ritual dies(or Alistair or Loghain), there should be nothing of the Archdemon's soul to recover.

[Never]

I think it would be awesome to play as the god baby, but Gaider said the dark ritual wasn't canon, so I'm not sure how that would work. Unless she ran over to Orlais or something after the archdemon was slain and got another Warden to knock her up.

[Chaia]

I remeber thinking about this a week or so before DA2 came out, back then I was pretty sure as the whole character is basically optional that he wouldn't have a big part, a secret companion at best (which I found disappointing as I'm personally like the OGB and Morrigan story)

However, since completing DA2 and finding out that both Anders and Leliana can survive the events of Origins and Awakening no matter what you do, even if your Warden personally "killed" Leliana, I wouldn't be that suprised to find out that BioWare has a trick up their sleeves so that the God Baby story happens no matter what your Warden did or didn't do.

[Danjaru]

I could see it implemented in a way.. The companion being Morrigans child, and depending on what you did in Origins it could be the Wardens child.. The character existing either way but if he's the godchild due to Origins he has a few extra sidequests and something of a Anders thing going on.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Clonedzero wrote...
dont remember bethesda having any ties between games. so canon in their games never matters.

You are joking, right? What do you think the Warp in the West was, if not to create a single coherent ending out of a game with dozens of different outcomes?

But then the way some people on this forum complain, you'd have thought Elder Scrolls III-XV should have been an individualized sequel to every possible ending. Maybe we should have DA3 - Dalish Male Rogue Edition and DA4 - Dwarf Female Noble Warrior Edition!

I mean, sure, having choices in the game is great. But why should the writers--and every other player on this green earth--be bound by the choices you made? 

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 25 mars 2011 - 10:07 .

[Alren]

If they want to tell the story of the OGB then they will.

If they want the OGB to be the PC for a possible DA3 game they will, if they want the OGB to be the villain, they will do that

They CAN do whatever they want, and tell whatever story they want.

Personally I would want them to focus on telling a story that is worth telling, no more importing. Just decide what is the history and go with it, if you played a city elf rogue, but the new canon is a human noble warrior. too bad.

Quality story first in my opinion

[Aradace]

allow me to quote the Sten: "No."