176 réponses à ce sujet

[Faust1979]

I only want the god baby in the game if it doesn't break the story because I have had several characters that didn't even do the dark ritual it needs to make sense within the story on one of my playthroughs it became Alistaire's problem when I made him do the dark ritual

[Faust1979]

sorry double post the website was messing up for me

Modifié par Faust1979, 04 août 2011 - 11:00 .

[Harid]

I thought the purpose of the ritual was to keep Blights perpetual when I first went through the game, as we were at the 5th Blight of Dragon Age, and there were only two left after this.

I am not a fan of Retcons, so I don't think they can make the ogb a primary character without heavy retcons, and I would assume people would be generally upset.

[Potato Cat]

I think the OGB being canon could be somewhat possible. Just not necessarily as an OLD GOD baby.

Remember, in Legacy, Corypehus was shown to have survived the events of the DLC. Meaning he might have some sort of Archdemon-not-killed-by-Grey-Warden-comes-back-as-another-darkspawn protection and therefore his soul could be transplanted into the child like the soul of an Old God.

Also, we don't know the full powers of the Eluvian or where she went. She could have gone into parallel universe or something, I don't know. But I really think the Eluvian has something to do with her finding another way to get an OGB, if the OGB was not created in the first place.

Either way, the OGB/normal baby won't be the DA3 protagonist, but I'm thinking he may be a companion or antagonist.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

riccaborto wrote...

She could have the child anyway, she's a woman...

also I believe (not sure) she DOES have the child in some way even if the player don't want it... I didn't see every possible ending in Origins, but I think I red it somewhere...

Nope. Female Warden playthroughs have no child for Morrigan if the ritual is refused, Morrigan remains childless. Also, male Wardens who never slept with Morrigan and don't do the DR don't have kids. Morrigan can't get pregnant unless someone makes her so. female Wardens can't, and Alistair or Loghain won't do her unless coerced or persuaded heavily.

So no, Morrigan's kid is non existant in many playthroughs, male and female.

[Zanallen]

We won't be playing as the OGB, unless Bioware decides that they want to cut out the gender choice. The OGB is male, remember? As a companion maybe, but that would be kind of lame.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

riccaborto wrote...

She could have the child anyway, she's a woman...

also I believe (not sure) she DOES have the child in some way even if the player don't want it... I didn't see every possible ending in Origins, but I think I red it somewhere...

Nope. Female Warden playthroughs have no child for Morrigan if the ritual is refused, Morrigan remains childless. Also, male Wardens who never slept with Morrigan and don't do the DR don't have kids. Morrigan can't get pregnant unless someone makes her so. female Wardens can't, and Alistair or Loghain won't do her unless coerced or persuaded heavily.

So no, Morrigan's kid is non existant in many playthroughs, male and female.

Once again, Morrigan can be doing all manner of things off screen, just because we don't see it happening doesn't constitue a hand wave.   Which she was doing while all Wardens were busy even if a female warden refuses her help.  Once again, if Bioware wishes for her to have the child then she will even if the warden does the US.  I don't understand why players don't get this.   The explosion on top of the fort could have also killed the warden and not just the killing of the arch demon.  That explosion was powerful enough to knock everyone off of their feet.

There is also a dialogue that she says when taking her into the Wonders of Thedas, I didn't have Alistair with me when she made the comment...paraphrase here:  Junk, just like I thought, oh wait, is that a Chasind feritilty idol?  So Bioware has left it opened ended for her to have the child if they choose to do so even if the warden dies.  This comment of hers about this idol could open this up for new avenues.

There could be other ritual's and spells and maybe this is the odd reason for WH ending the way it did with her going through the mirror.  Even if your warden dies, she is still going to make it to that mirror.  She falls threw the mirror even if you stab her.  If her son is a very powerful mage he might have healing skills and save her.  If you don't accept the ritual she could go into the fade or to her destination where she was going to bring an old god's soul or spirit back with her or she possesses the soul in the fade.  This could help be an answer if the warden refused the ritual.

We also know that Keeper Marethari drew a pride demon out of the fade and did the possession thing in reverse.  Blood mages can draw spirits and demons out of the fade.  My impression for her needing a warden to get pregnant was so her child couldn't be corrupted once it was born, so the child will be immune to the taint.  Once again, she can find other wardens not just the ones in DAO, DAA. 

With Dumat's Altar in the new dlc, this still shows us that we don't have all the information that we need on the old gods.  If they are dead they are in the fade somewhere or somewhere else.   Morrigan does say in WH that she is going beyond the fade.  Which means one of three things.  She is going to enter the fallen city of the elves, find the maker, or find the other old gods or the elven gods or both.  It's up to Bioware to tell us when they return to her story which they have said they are going to do and her story isn't over, even if a warden does the US.  This tells me that she will find another way. 

There is also the possibility, if the warden accepts her help it was Morrigan that acutally died, we never physcially see her after the battle with the Arch Demon.  That dog in the throne room next to Sten doesn't have to be Morrigan like some players have speculated in shape shifted form.  If we find her next at the mirror this could have been her soul/spirit as well, we have no way of knowing one way or the other.  

I think in figuring this game out, you have to ask the 'what if' questions.

[Leoroc]

I'd like it as an optional origin for people who import their saves. As much as I love the idea of my main character having a son, he is the generic gender neutral pronoun in English.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
Once again, Morrigan can be doing all manner of things off screen, just because we don't see it happening doesn't constitue a hand wave.   Which she was doing while all Wardens were busy even if a female warden refuses her help.  Once again, if Bioware wishes for her to have the child then she will even if the warden does the US.  I don't understand why players don't get this.   The explosion on top of the fort could have also killed the warden and not just the killing of the arch demon.  That explosion was powerful enough to knock everyone off of their feet.

There is also a dialogue that she says when taking her into the Wonders of Thedas, I didn't have Alistair with me when she made the comment...paraphrase here:  Junk, just like I thought, oh wait, is that a Chasind feritilty idol?  So Bioware has left it opened ended for her to have the child if they choose to do so even if the warden dies.  This comment of hers about this idol could open this up for new avenues.

There could be other ritual's and spells and maybe this is the odd reason for WH ending the way it did with her going through the mirror.  Even if your warden dies, she is still going to make it to that mirror.  She falls threw the mirror even if you stab her.  If her son is a very powerful mage he might have healing skills and save her.  If you don't accept the ritual she could go into the fade or to her destination where she was going to bring an old god's soul or spirit back with her or she possesses the soul in the fade.  This could help be an answer if the warden refused the ritual.

We also know that Keeper Marethari drew a pride demon out of the fade and did the possession thing in reverse.  Blood mages can draw spirits and demons out of the fade.  My impression for her needing a warden to get pregnant was so her child couldn't be corrupted once it was born, so the child will be immune to the taint.  Once again, she can find other wardens not just the ones in DAO, DAA. 

With Dumat's Altar in the new dlc, this still shows us that we don't have all the information that we need on the old gods.  If they are dead they are in the fade somewhere or somewhere else.   Morrigan does say in WH that she is going beyond the fade.  Which means one of three things.  She is going to enter the fallen city of the elves, find the maker, or find the other old gods or the elven gods or both.  It's up to Bioware to tell us when they return to her story which they have said they are going to do and her story isn't over, even if a warden does the US.  This tells me that she will find another way. 

There is also the possibility, if the warden accepts her help it was Morrigan that acutally died, we never physcially see her after the battle with the Arch Demon.  That dog in the throne room next to Sten doesn't have to be Morrigan like some players have speculated in shape shifted form.  If we find her next at the mirror this could have been her soul/spirit as well, we have no way of knowing one way or the other.  

I think in figuring this game out, you have to ask the 'what if' questions.

Bioware can ressurect anyone it chooses, that's for certain. In this case, it would require massive retconning and some pretty retarded story twists to fit it in. Which would not make a game worth playing. And I am more interested in plausible future stories than retconned, nonsensical junk. I've seen enough of that.

Playing as Morrigan's kid in a future game where you are imprting a DAO save where she has none would be beyond epic fail, on many accounts. It would not only violate choices made, but would violate Morrigan as a character.

[Giggles_Manically]

Plus it cant happen.
EVER.

WORD OF GAIDER:
IF NO ONE DID THE DR AN SOMEONE DIED KILLING THE ARCHDEMON IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

END OF STORY!

[dragonflight288]

I personally wouldn't mind it happening in an imported save where it did happen. And if we aren't the God Baby, we can still be the child of Morrigan without the soul of an old god.

[Chun Hei]

If the Warden is stupid enough he can go into the mirror with Morrigan she will take him to her place of power. There she will kill him and eat him. Then she will kill the baby as part of an ancient blood magic ritual and make herself super powerful.

Morrigan becomes a boss villain in DA3.

Seriously if Morrigan has ANY baby that goes on to become a character in a DA game it does not matter if it is a "god baby" or not. Her son with be a mage and a powerful one. How would a player even be able to tell the difference between a "god baby" mage and a powerful son of Morrigan?

Would it really make that much of a difference to you if the character kept saying things like, "I am an OLD GOD! Mwa ha ha ha!" or "I am way cooler than a typical powerful mage because I said so and some players are willing to swear that it makes all the difference in the world to them in their minds that they will type for hours how cool it is in Bioware forums! Bwa ha ha ha ha!"

[TEWR]

Gaider's words actually don't make sense to me because he failed to take into account that soldiers die from wartime injuries all the time.

http://social.biowar...20&lf=8#3195476

I'm sorry but I dislike this idea that because the Warden says "No", someone stops pursuing their goal. The extent of the US choice was that your Warden died and wanted to kill the Archdemon, but he/she is not omniscient and cannot predict everything. The OGB could still exist and the Warden could still be dead.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 août 2011 - 12:31 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I don't see how this would violate Morrigan as a character. I see the warden refusing her offer of help right along with her character. Morrigan tells you only power and survial matter. If you won't help her Morrigan is the type to help herself. If she wants this power bad enough then she will fight to get the soul of an old god one way or another.

This suits Morrigan's character better if the warden dies with the US ending in my opinion. A dead warden is going to be watching from the fade while she pulls it off. It also wouldn't be a retcon. There are still two more Arch demons left for her to achieve her goals, they can rise at any time. Story twists aren't needed, with the lore. You also have to take into account on what happened in DA2 and lore presented there. She also leaves a book at the mirror. I haven't played a dead warden. Are the books left and how did the Orlesian warden know to find her?

Morrigan is a mage, she can also go into the fade and retrieve a dead warden if necessary. We've also seen in DA2 that mages also can cause any person, or object to be possessed if she wants your soul or spirit back. Justice story line also show this from Awakenings and DA2. So it wouldn't be a hand wave or retcon.

The lore is there for Bioware to work it anyway that they choose.

[Saberchic]

I'm sure if the player refused the DR, Morrigan eventually found a way to make it happen. It's not that hard of a stretch to imagine.

As for playing as the OGB? I'm not sure how that would work. I think I like the idea of him being on the periphery for now. Depending on how long DA3 takes place after DA2, I'd say the OGB won't be playing a huge role in the next game.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ Chun

I've thought the same thing. Morrigan could kill the warden when they stepped into the mirror or she imprisoned the warden in the fade or where ever she was going.

[TEWR]

The OGB is 10 at this point. He probably won't appear until DA4 at least.

[ArcanistLibram]

Saberchic wrote...

I'm sure if the player refused the DR, Morrigan eventually found a way to make it happen. It's not that hard of a stretch to imagine.

The only way Morrigan could perform the Dark Ritual if the Warden and Alistair/Loghain turn her down is to wait for the next Blight.

[TEWR]

Also, here's a brief thing I came up with on another thread:

Even if the Warden says "No I won't have sex with you Morrigan", that doesn't mean she simply gave up. Maybe she was wrong about Riordan (though admittedly she sounded certain, but hey it doesn't hurt to try), maybe she found another Grey Warden infiltrator from Orlais and convinced him. Bioware could pull a whole bunch of other reasons for her having an OGB while still keeping the Warden dead due to trauma to the head or other war injuries.

In that scenario, Urthemiel is still "dead" to the world, the Warden is still dead, and Morrigan gets her OGB.

Seriously. Maybe Riordan considered the idea. Maybe Riordan asked her what she planned to do with him, and she said she'd take him far away. Maybe Riordan thought that by doing this ritual, if he lived he could go on to his Calling and kill more Darkspawn.

[TEWR]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

I'm sure if the player refused the DR, Morrigan eventually found a way to make it happen. It's not that hard of a stretch to imagine.

The only way Morrigan could perform the Dark Ritual if the Warden and Alistair/Loghain turn her down is to wait for the next Blight.

No. There are other Grey Wardens in Thedas, and who's to say she didn't bang Avernus (that.... would be creepy though) or another Grey Warden infiltrator from Orlais?

She's also a shapeshifter, and she can shapeshift into a bird and insects. If she can do that, she could've flown to Orlais' headquarters and seduced a Grey Warden. Or even used blood magic on him to mind control him into doing it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 août 2011 - 12:51 .

[dragonflight288]

Every side has valid points. I single tree branch swung with enough force can cave a man's skull in. Flying across a building from an exploding Archdemon and probably becoming a Riordan-Pancake can also happen with the Dark Ritual in place. The Warden may not die because of the merged souls, but still dies.

Also, Morrigan may just as easily contrive another ritual that takes time and resources she doesn't have to use while staying with the warden to fight, so she could just as easily leave to do another, different ritual with the same outcome, and the Warden dies anyway. It's not inconceivable.

Granted, she may not be able to get the old god's soul, but as a powerful mage, she may seek out others such as Corypheus or the Architect and do something similar without an Old God Baby, but awakened baby free of the taint but with some command over darkspawn.

[Saberchic]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

I'm sure if the player refused the DR, Morrigan eventually found a way to make it happen. It's not that hard of a stretch to imagine.

The only way Morrigan could perform the Dark Ritual if the Warden and Alistair/Loghain turn her down is to wait for the next Blight.

Not necessarily. There's no telling where exactly she's been. She may have been able to find a fresh recruit GW, and she might know where an old god is. Perhaps she performed a variation of some sort of the DR.

I'm just saying that it's not entirely out of the question. It is plausible that she found another way.

edit: 'd by The Ethereal Writer Redux

Modifié par Saberchic, 07 août 2011 - 12:50 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Gaider's words actually don't make sense to me because he failed to take into account that soldiers die from wartime injuries all the time.

http://social.biowar...20&lf=8#3195476

I'm sorry but I dislike this idea that because the Warden says "No", someone stops pursuing their goal. The extent of the US choice was that your Warden died and wanted to kill the Archdemon, but he/she is not omniscient and cannot predict everything. The OGB could still exist and the Warden could still be dead.

Soldiers die from wartime injuries. However, slaying an archdemon is not a "wartime injury".  We are talking about two souls being destroyed entirely.

And Morrigan being denied her ritual does not stop her pursuing her goals at all. She still continues on whatever she is doing, though she is doing so without the old godbaby. A setback, but not an end or deterrant to her goal. The kid was important to her plans, but it was not her sole plan. Her plans continue regardless.

The Warden need not be omnicient, but given the final scene, it;'s pretty clear that if someone died slaying the archdemon, it wasn't from "war injuries".

[TEWR]

The extent of the US decision was this:

• Warden wants to kill Archdemon and get rid of his soul entirely.
• Warden wants to make heroic death.
• Warden dies and is remembered as a hero.

That does not mean that the Warden was able to make Morrigan stop pursuing her goals. I dislike that people think the Warden can do that. There wasn't a persuade option to get her to stay with you and not do the DR some other way. You just said "No". How often does saying "no" actually get somebody to stop doing something they want to do?

There are ways the OGB can exist and the Warden can remain dead. What you want and what actually happens are not the same thing. The Warden wanted the Archdemon to die. What actually happened was out of his control. There is no way for Thedas to cut open a dead Warden and say "Welp, he definitely had an Archdemon's soul inside his body."

[TEWR]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...


Soldiers die from wartime injuries. However, slaying an archdemon is not a "wartime injury".  We are talking about two souls being destroyed entirely.

No but Garahel was killed by the Fourth Blight's Archdemon's death throes (at least that's what it implies for me).



I watched from across the battlefield as Garahel struck the final blow against the Archdemon and a great wave of energy surged out from the beast.

It was enough to level what buildings were not already destroyed by the endless battle we had fought, enough to knock horses and ogres aside as if they were little more than parchment. Even at my distance, the force struck me like the blast of some great storm. The darkspawn around us felt it too, as savage desperation turned to sheer terror.

A great pillar of energy rushed up into the dark clouds, the blackness that had gathered with the horde and blocked out all glimmer of hope. When we stood again, we saw the first rays of sunshine peeking through those clouds and we let out such a cheer of joy and relief that it shook the very earth. I joined the others as we searched for Garahel, but as the eve approached all I found was his enchanted helm. It was not until much later that I heard his body had been retrieved, flung to the far side of the battlefield by the Archdemon’s death throes. My friend, this elf who helped us unite the lands and cleanse Thedas of the darkspawn scourge will always be remembered. I swear it.

—Excerpt from a letter written by the Grey Warden Prosper, 5:24 Exalted .
 
There was a massive explosion from Urthemiel's death that could've killed the Warden by sending him flying and becoming a Riordan pancake. Or up against a wall, where he suffered from trauma to the head.

That the Archdemon/Old God is dead to the public doesn't mean he actually is. That the Warden died doesn't mean he died due to sharing a mental and spiritual apartment with the Archdemon. It's what the Warden was hoping would happen.

And Morrigan being denied her ritual does not stop her pursuing her goals at all. She still continues on whatever she is doing, though she is doing so without the old godbaby. A setback, but not an end or deterrant to her goal. The kid was important to her plans, but it was not her sole plan. Her plans continue regardless.

The Warden need not be omnicient, but given the final scene, it;'s pretty clear that if someone died slaying the archdemon, it wasn't from "war injuries".

All that's clear if someone died slaying the Archdemon is that someone died slaying the Archdemon. You can't cut someone up for an autopsy and say "Welp, they had the soul of an Archdemon inside them with their own soul"

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 août 2011 - 01:08 .