192 réponses à ce sujet

[Frybread76]

sanadawarrior wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

sanadawarrior wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

All three (360, PS3 and PC) dropped more than 25 percent in sales from the first to second week, with the PS3 dropping 38 percent, the PC dropping 26 percent and the 360 dropping 33 percent.  While the PC's drop is less, it hasn't sold nearly as many units as the PS3 and 360.

We'll have to wait and see if this drops further in the third week, stabilizes or increases.  I expect this game will die with Skyrim and other RPG's come out this summer/fall.

Killzone 3 : 60% drop off on second week
Bulletstorm: 60% drop off
Dissidia : 75% drop off
Fight Night Champion: 60% drop off

What's your point?  I never compared DA2 to those games, none of which I liked.

My point is the drop offs for Dragon Age 2 are normal and within the range of other games released in this time period.

Again, I never compared DA2 to those games.  But Killzone 3 has dropped significantly but is still outselling even the highest-selling version of DA2 in only its second week.

[Rykoth]

Show proof that "most" of the community hates DA2.

Metacritic does not count. Show legitimate proof.

[Merced652]

Whats funny, or sad actually, is that most of those games aren't even out on the PC and will still destroy DA2 in sales. I guess i can see why laidlaw wants that crew, but its probably apt to point out that he apparently can't make a game that will compete there either.

[sanadawarrior]

Frybread76 wrote...


Again, I never compared DA2 to those games.  But Killzone 3 has dropped significantly but is still outselling even the highest-selling version of DA2 in only its second week.

The fact that you were not comparing the games is irrelevant, you mentioned the drop off for Dragon Age II as if there was something wrong and I was showing you that most games released in this time period have that severe 50%-70% drop off from week 1 to week 2 of sales. As far as Killzone 3 selling better than Dragon Age right now, it's week 1 was way higher so it has farther to fall.

Edit: Week 1 for Killzone 3 was not much higher, was looking at it wrong... xD

Modifié par sanadawarrior, 25 mars 2011 - 05:59 .

[DrGulag]

Show proof that "most" of the community hates DA2.

Metacritic does not count. Show legitimate proof.

What kind of a sample is big enough? You have around 4000 user reviews on that website and the average score is around 4.0

You do realise that a sample of 2500 may be large enough for a nation-wide figure when they do polls before elections.

Granted, it's just one website but just looking at this forum it's pretty obvious that many people are not content with the changes. We will see the real picture when the first DLC's come out. If they sell well and the next Dragon Age game is a success, Bioware need not worry.

Modifié par DrGulag, 25 mars 2011 - 06:02 .

[sanadawarrior]

DrGulag wrote...

Show proof that "most" of the community hates DA2.

Metacritic does not count. Show legitimate proof.

What kind of a sample is big enough? You have around 4000 user reviews on that website and the average is under 4.0

You do realise that a sample of 2500 may be large enough for nation-wide figure when they do polls before elections.

So the sample size of 2366 user reviews from Gamefly that have it hovering at about 8 is reliable as well right?

[Merci357]

DrGulag wrote...

Show proof that "most" of the community hates DA2.

Metacritic does not count. Show legitimate proof.

What kind of a sample is big enough? You have around 4000 user reviews on that website and the average is under 4.0

You do realise that a sample of 2500 may be large enough for nation-wide figure when they do polls before elections.

You do realise that each and every other user generated score regarding DA2 is far higher then the metacritic one? Far higher as in still mediocre, mind you, especially for a BioWare game. But the metacritic score is tainted and in fact, only proof of one thing: People were disappointed and took the liberty to trash the game. Fine if you do it once. Not so cool if you do it multiple times.

[DrGulag]

So the sample size of 2366 user reviews from Gamefly that have it hovering at about 8 is reliable as well right?

Yes. In the end you have to add up the numbers and see what the average is.

It will most likely be in the 70's or 60's which indicates that DA2 is a mediocre product.

[RaenImrahl]

DrGulag wrote...

What kind of a sample is big enough? You have around 4000 user reviews on that website and the average is under 4.0

You do realise that a sample of 2500 may be large enough for nation-wide figure when they do polls before elections.

On the surface, I could accept that... but I do have a bit of a hard time accepting that the folks on this forum represent a true nationwide (or worldwide) cross-sampling.  Nothing against the people here, mind you.  I'd say the same thing about, for example, the product feedback on a site like Amazon.com.

When you look at national political polls, yes, their sample sizes are at that level or smaller.  But they are (usually) taken from a sample population that represents a microcosm of the larger population... from registered voters, from people who identify themselves with a particualr party, from people who identify themselves as likely voters, etc.

Methodology is important.

[sanadawarrior]

DrGulag wrote...

So the sample size of 2366 user reviews from Gamefly that have it hovering at about 8 is reliable as well right?

Yes. In the end you have to add up the numbers and see what the average is.

It will most likely be in the 70's or 60's which indicates that DA2 is a mediocre product.

Please dont say it like that, I really don't want to go to all of the websites and add up their user scores to get an average lol...

[DrGulag]

On the surface, I could accept that... but I do have a bit of a hard time accepting that the folks on this forum represent a true nationwide (or worldwide) cross-sampling. Nothing against the people here, mind you. I'd say the same thing about, for example, the product feedback on a site like Amazon.com.

When you look at national political polls, yes, their sample sizes are at that level or smaller. But they are (usually) taken from a sample population that represents a microcosm of the larger population... from registered voters, from people who identify themselves with a particualr party, from people who identify themselves as likely voters, etc.

Methodology is important.

Obviously people have very strong opinions and you see a lof of 100's and 0's.

I gave this game a 2.5/5 (Amazon). I would assume the average would be in the lower 70's when you remove all the duplicates and craziness from the equation. That doesn't compare with Biowares earlier releases. 

Hate is too strong a word but the community certainly has gripes with DA2. I don't think it can be disputed.

Modifié par DrGulag, 25 mars 2011 - 06:09 .

[sanadawarrior]

DrGulag wrote...

Obviously people have very strong opinions and you see a lof of 100's and 0's.

I gave this game a 2.5/5 (Amazon). I would assume the average would be in the lower 70's when you remove all the duplicates and craziness from the equation. That doesn't compare with Biowares earlier releases. 

Hate is too strong a word but the community certainly has gripes with DA2. I don't think it can be disputed.

I can agree to that. Personaly the game is 9/10 but objectively I would say it's about a 7.5. It's pretty much the same way I feel about Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, greatness escaped them because of rushed deadlines and bug filled stupidity.

[RunicDragons]

I don't understand... Is it just the Americans who hates this game?

Because i really enjoy it, and all the people i know who owns the game really like it...

[sanadawarrior]

RunicDragons wrote...

I don't understand... Is it just the Americans who hates this game?

Because i really enjoy it, and all the people i know who owns the game really like it...

I'm an American and I love it!

Edit: Out of the 4 people I know personaly that played the game only one was indifferent to it and the others loved it. However non of them bother to go on forums or whatnot lol...

Modifié par sanadawarrior, 25 mars 2011 - 06:17 .

[RaenImrahl]

DrGulag wrote...

Obviously people have very strong opinions and you see a lof of 100's and 0's.

I gave this game a 2.5/5 (Amazon). I would assume the average would be in the lower 70's when you remove all the duplicates and craziness from the equation. That doesn't compare with Biowares earlier releases. 

Hate is too strong a word but the community certainly has gripes with DA2. I don't think it can be disputed.

I am not seeing a lot of 100's and 0's... I merely point out that the types of folks who inhabit the Bioware social forums... myself included... are not necessarily representtive of the larger consumer base.  So I urge caution when trying to quantify either pleasure or displeasure with the game.  That's all. 

I have my own grips with the game, which I have posted elsewhere.  I don't dispute that others feel the same way.  Its overwhelming generalizations, based on limited data, which I question. Nothing more.

[Cancermeat]

The worst thing the people who hate the game could do would be to not post any feedback on the forums. the fact that they rage in here only proves that they still care about the franchise.

[sanadawarrior]

Cancermeat wrote...

The worst thing the people who hate the game could do would be to not post any feedback on the forums. the fact that they rage in here only proves that they still care about the franchise.

And the worst thing that those who like the game could do is let those who hate the game be the only voices that are heard. Unfortunately it leads to confrontation...

[RaenImrahl]

RunicDragons wrote...

I don't understand... Is it just the Americans who hates this game?

Because i really enjoy it, and all the people i know who owns the game really like it...

Really?  Hmmm... I would think the changes made to the game (faster, some would say simplified combat) would be more appealing to a typical American player, at least from a European perspective.  I am an American, btw, though doubt I am typical.

Of course, my knowledge of how Brits, for example, view Americans mostly comes from reruns of "Top Gear".  So all I can say for certain is that we're all fat and make cars that can't go around corners...

[DrGulag]

Sanadawarrior. 

The thing is that the recycled areas, lack of auto-attack in the console version and certain bugs already mean that I cant give it a higher score than 7.5.

After that the real problem is the direction Bioware is taking. People who love the Baldurs Gate mechanics will dislike the game and then you have gamers who are quite happy with the changes. So the company has polarized people and at the same time created a product that has problems.

As a result you have websites like Gamespot where the average is over 7, Metacritic and the old school gamers where the average is abysmal etc.

So you essentially have two gaming communities now. One is extremely unhappy with the product and the other is rather pleased but can still see the basic problems outside of their own preference.

ps. I assumed these changes would appeal mostly to American players. Asian gamers, for example, really like their turn based and slower paced RPG's with a lot of tactical options and number crunching.

Modifié par DrGulag, 25 mars 2011 - 06:26 .

[Alex Kershaw]

You would have a valid argument if Laidlaw wasn't still in denial. If he apologised, I for one would be willing to move on from this. The fact is, he's still openly trashing Origins in interviews while his failure of a recent project was utterly disastrous in terms of reviews - hence, denial.

[RaenImrahl]

sanadawarrior wrote...

I'm an American and I love it!

Edit: Out of the 4 people I know personaly that played the game only one was indifferent to it and the others loved it. However non of them bother to go on forums or whatnot lol...

Ah... thank you for that!  People like us who bother to use these forums are more passionate (one way or another) than the average consumer.  Maybe passionate isn't the right word... motivated, maybe?  You have to have some motivation to be here.  That motivation colors the perspectives you see here.  I'm not saying it's a bad thing.  It's just something to keep in mind.

[Pwnsaur]

There are plently of well-contructed and fair posts on both sides. I would also mention that childish, hostile behavior is being exhibited by BOTH sides. I think you should give BioWare a little more credit to have the ability to decipher the emotionally charged drivel from the intellectually driven discourse. Try to focus on the latter, and you should be fine. As the comparison goes.... "If you don't like the show, change the channel."

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 25 mars 2011 - 06:27 .

[sanadawarrior]

DrGulag wrote...

The thing is that the recycled areas, lack of auto-attack in the console version and certain bugs already mean that I cant give it a higher score than 7.5.

After that the real problem is the direction Bioware is taking. People who love the Baldurs Gate mechanics will dislike the game and others will be happy with the changes. As a result the company has polarized people and at the same time created a product that has problems.

As a result you have websites like Gamespot where the average is over 7, Metacritic and the old school gamers where the average is abysmal etc.

So you essentially have two gaming communities now. One is extremely unhappy with the product and the other is rather pleased but can still see the basic problems outside of their own preference.

I love Baldur's Gate mechanics, wasn't unhappy with the changes they made and I love the direction that BioWare is taking. Why is it that people who hate whatever BioWares newest game is think that all of the other old school fans (been a fan for 11 years now) hate the direction the company is going in just like they do?

DrGulag wrote...


ps. I assumed these changes would appeal mostly to American players. Asian gamers, for example, really like their turn based and slower paced RPG's with a lot of tactical options and number crunching.

And yet they still love their Tales of, Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, Secret of Mana etc... action rpg gameplay...

Modifié par sanadawarrior, 25 mars 2011 - 06:33 .

[DrGulag]

I love Baldur's Gate mechanics, wasn't unhappy with the changes they made and I love the direction that BioWare is taking. Why is it that everyone who hates BioWares newest game thinks that all of the other old school fans (been a fan for 11 years now) hate the direction the company is going in just like they do?

The majority of complaints seem to be coming from people who grew up to love games like Baldurs Gate. There are obviously individuals who appreciate DA2 regardless of their past.

But that's only part of the issue here. Many people have problems with DRM and lack of customer rights, bugs, recycled areas etc.

Modifié par DrGulag, 25 mars 2011 - 06:32 .

[KellyKMc]

sanadawarrior wrote...

DrGulag wrote...

Show proof that "most" of the community hates DA2.

Metacritic does not count. Show legitimate proof.

What kind of a sample is big enough? You have around 4000 user reviews on that website and the average is under 4.0

You do realise that a sample of 2500 may be large enough for nation-wide figure when they do polls before elections.

So the sample size of 2366 user reviews from Gamefly that have it hovering at about 8 is reliable as well right?

4000 fanboys can't be wrong....<_<  I think it's more of a statement on the sense of entitlement (and probably maturity) of the average gamer than any sort of objective indication of the true quality of the game.