192 réponses à ce sujet

[Reinveil]

simfamSP wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

DrGulag wrote...

Nonsense.

People have legitimate gripes with this rushed product and they are voicing their frustration. That's the only thing we can do as customers after paying 60 bucks for a release that let most of the community down.

Many are going into overdrive, because the response from Bioware has been completely ridiculous. You have seen the latest interviews right? And they are not being open or honest, just trying to cash in and protect their own asses. In a situation like this certain amount of rage is entirely justified.

Your the person OP is talking about. Your negative view of DA2 gives nothing Bioware can work with. Do you think saying a product sucks is a good way of getting to Bioware? If you don't like a certain product, say why you don't like it, say what worked, and say what could be done to make it better. Thats called CONTRUCTIVE CRITISICM (sorry if I mispelled it btw.)

I always like to bring Gothic 3 to this topic when reffering to DA2. Gothic 3 has a crazy amount of bugs, it's combat is boring, and if it weren't for the community it would suck!

That is no fair review, a fair review states the good and the bad. Even if you did not like the game, you do not vent your fustrations. Now heed my words: This is coming from a 15 year old; You are being juvenile in doing so.

Go look at the constructive criticism thread.  You know, the one with 50+ pages?  Started by a member of Bioware?  There's plenty of it going on.  Not sure what you're getting so defensive and uptight about.  OP's post wasn't even about the game, it's about people tearing into a member of the development team.

Nice rant, though.

P.S. You're=you are

Thank you for that little bit of knowledge. I can always improve in my English. Anyway back to your point: I may have misunderstood the OP's meaning, or maybe you have. But because I am busy in writing this post, and rubbish at multi-tasking I will just say this. Weather it is related to the OP's original statements, I am still pointing my concerns towards the rubbish crtitism that Bioware is giving. The negativity of such posts are unnecessary and un-just. There is no thought put into these sort of posts, and as I've said before, Bioware do not listen to hateful comments. If you wish to post your concerns I would suggest to do it appropiatley with a balance of both good and bad.

My post is probably very off-topic and I do apologise. But I still think most people will respond with hostility towards my post due to the mentioning of my age. I have come to realise that teenagers are rahter hated in forums fulled with gamers; perish the thought that I might be polite and sensible, that is not how a 15 year old should behave!

If it improves your writing, I'm happy to help.  Pretty sure someone probably corrected me in a similar manner at some point when I was young.

I think you're seeing what you want to see in these criticisms, to be honest.  There are an awful lot of people on these forums and elsewhere that are backing their disappointment with plenty of valid points in a non-inflammatory manner.  You needn't look far to find examples (including the person you claimed was "part of the problem").  And let's be honest, there are just as many fans of the game throwing around insults and generalizations as the detractors are.

Constructive criticism doesn't require a balance of negatives and positives.  If you find nothing redeeming about a product, you can't exactly list off a bunch of things you like about it, can you (this is merely an example)?  As long as you don't soak everything you post in venom and discuss what you don't like in some detail, or what you'd like to see done differently, you're being constructive.  Again, there's an entire thread devoted to this that is being read by the developers (who were cordial enough to start it to begin with).

I too take issue with personal insults or threats directed at people, but at the same time, by doing interviews and making comments that some may view as controversial, you are opening yourself up to at least some discussion.

Modifié par Reinveil, 25 mars 2011 - 10:38 .

[Cybermortis]

sanadawarrior wrote...

DrGulag wrote...

are you reading what you're typing? you want statements from bioware about what they'll do with the next game? are you serious? why would bioware ever do that?

To be honest and open towards customers who bought their products in the past and made them a successful company?

I dont think that's an unreasonable request to be honest. They dont need to seek my approval or anything but it would be nice to know what a possible purchase would offer to different people.

They should be honest towards their customers, however when they get around to talking about Dragon Age 3 is when you will know what it is you need to know about that game. Demanding that they tell you right now is premature, could be they themselves do not know in which direction to take the next game.

I doubt there will be any statement on DA3 until they have had a chance to look at the sales figures, and I'd guess this will include sales of the DLC. Inital sales figures will include pre-orders, meaning people who had bought the game without being able to read any reviews on it. Now that the game is out the figures will show how well or badly the game has been received since then. The DLC sales figures will also give a far better idea as to how the game has been recieved by players, since people will only buy DLC's for games they are keeping and replaying*.

Both figures will be looked at to decide if it would be economically viable to make a DA3 - and in todays market that will include DLC sales.

I've said this before, but reading through the forum as a whole the impression is that players fall into one of three camps;

Those who feel this is a good game, and anyone who says otherwise is a 'NooB'/Moron/{Insert insulting term here}.

Those who feel this is the worst game ever released and lynching is far to good for those involved in its creation and release.

Everyone else, who fall somewhere between the two extremes.

The first two groups appear to be 1/4tr of the posters each. The first will clearly buy DA3 and any DA2 DLC's. The Second will not be buying Bioware games again, let alone any DLC's.

It is the last group, which comprises at least half the people on here, which is the more interesting group. The general feeling here is that while some liked DA2 more than others. All of them agree that the game has some serious problems above and beyond the bugs. Much more importantly from a business viewpoint it that these people are as a whole stating that they will never be pre-ordering Bioware titles again, and almost all of them stating they will not be buying any DLC for DA2 period. From a business viewpoint these people are the ones Bioware should really be looking at. No pre-orders is going to drive down the initial sales figures for all future Bioware games, while low DLC sales will result in less money coming in over the course of the year. Both will make the profits from Bioware games a heck of a lot lower in the short term, and if they try to release another sub-standard game they are unlikely to sell well from the start. Both should result in shareholders asking questions about what the bosses have been doing, and if this happens with a game such as ME3 - for which a LOT is expected by everyone - I'd fully expect a lot of people to end up getting replaced, Bioware to go bust or being sold off to someone else.

(*I would be very interested to know how many copies of DA2 have been traded in to date).

[Chaos_1001]

simfamSP wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

DrGulag wrote...

Nonsense.

People have legitimate gripes with this rushed product and they are voicing their frustration. That's the only thing we can do as customers after paying 60 bucks for a release that let most of the community down.

Many are going into overdrive, because the response from Bioware has been completely ridiculous. You have seen the latest interviews right? And they are not being open or honest, just trying to cash in and protect their own asses. In a situation like this certain amount of rage is entirely justified.

Your the person OP is talking about. Your negative view of DA2 gives nothing Bioware can work with. Do you think saying a product sucks is a good way of getting to Bioware? If you don't like a certain product, say why you don't like it, say what worked, and say what could be done to make it better. Thats called CONTRUCTIVE CRITISICM (sorry if I mispelled it btw.)

I always like to bring Gothic 3 to this topic when reffering to DA2. Gothic 3 has a crazy amount of bugs, it's combat is boring, and if it weren't for the community it would suck!

That is no fair review, a fair review states the good and the bad. Even if you did not like the game, you do not vent your fustrations. Now heed my words: This is coming from a 15 year old; You are being juvenile in doing so.

Go look at the constructive criticism thread.  You know, the one with 50+ pages?  Started by a member of Bioware?  There's plenty of it going on.  Not sure what you're getting so defensive and uptight about.  OP's post wasn't even about the game, it's about people tearing into a member of the development team.

Nice rant, though.

P.S. You're=you are

Thank you for that little bit of knowledge. I can always improve in my English. Anyway back to your point: I may have misunderstood the OP's meaning, or maybe you have. But because I am busy in writing this post, and rubbish at multi-tasking I will just say this. Weather it is related to the OP's original statements, I am still pointing my concerns towards the rubbish crtitism that Bioware is giving. The negativity of such posts are unnecessary and un-just. There is no thought put into these sort of posts, and as I've said before, Bioware do not listen to hateful comments. If you wish to post your concerns I would suggest to do it appropiatley with a balance of both good and bad.

My post is probably very off-topic and I do apologise. But I still think most people will respond with hostility towards my post due to the mentioning of my age. I have come to realise that teenagers are rahter hated in forums fulled with gamers; perish the thought that I might be polite and sensible, that is not how a 15 year old should behave!

Very well said sim . Age is not the issue with what has been going on here. Maturity, tact, common sense and respect are very much at the center of this. Individuals going with this "bandwagon" of openly attacking a member of the development team Mike Laidlaw and some of the comments said ...... are infuriating at best. The fact the discussion is still going in that thread is mindboggling to say the least. Those comments and attacks have to stop, period. I really do not want to bring real life scenarios of how what your doing on these forums is related to these events. As intelligent individuals you can understand that for yourselves. While the internet gives you a voice it does not give you a liscense to say / do to whoever you want however you want. Please for the sake of improving our games we love so much alone. Stop this lynch-mob mentality bullsquat !

[CRISIS1717]

No, Dragon Age royally screwed up and there needs to be a change up of staff,

people do not listen to politely written letters they listen to the mob rattling their gates.

[Reinveil]

Cybermortis:

You, sir, are making a lot of sense.

(I traded mine in on Wednesday. )

Modifié par Reinveil, 25 mars 2011 - 10:41 .

[Reinveil]

Chaos_1001 wrote...

Very well said sim . Age is not the issue with what has been going on here. Maturity, tact, common sense and respect are very much at the center of this. Individuals going with this "bandwagon" of openly attacking a member of the development team Mike Laidlaw and some of the comments said ...... are infuriating at best. The fact the discussion is still going in that thread is mindboggling to say the least. Those comments and attacks have to stop, period. I really do not want to bring real life scenarios of how what your doing on these forums is related to these events. As intelligent individuals you can understand that for yourselves. While the internet gives you a voice it does not give you a liscense to say / do to whoever you want however you want. Please for the sake of improving our games we love so much alone. Stop this lynch-mob mentality bullsquat !

I think you're being overly-dramatic, to the point that it's making me wonder why you're getting so emotionally invested in the issue.  I think anyone that's even a little rational can agree that outright slandering someone is uncalled for, but nobody forced the man to make some of the comments he made in recent interviews either.  And seeing as how they were made in publications that anyone here can access and read for themselves, it stands to reason it's going to be talked about.

You're coming across as an overzealous Internet White Knight with this impassioned raving.  Your intentions are good enough, but perhaps you should dial it back a couple notches.

[DragonRageGT]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

But you have to see it from the other side too, the people who come here and say they didn't like the game they bought and a lot of them actually explaining why are still getting flamed by others who liked it constantly trying to argue bits and bobs from every sentence typed in order to somehow force them into saying they liked it too. So shouldn't side with fans of the game when the same applied to people who didn't like it.

The main anger on these forums is not about who liked and disliked it, it's about how everyone talks to each other being aggressive making the other person defensive. Your post is aggressive so people are going to be defensive now, the vice versa applies too.

Exactly. Instead of defending the game for its qualities, most fanboys need to attack those who list a series of points that made the game less enjoyable for them and even some game breaking bugs. I don't see anyone attacking those who like the game, quite the contraire... BTW, for me a fanboy is very different from a Bioware fan, which I am. Fanatics are crazy.

P.S.: And since good ol' SimFAmSP brought Gothic 3, which I love very much, into the discussion, that is another example of a Publisher screwing up a game by pushing the release and when the Piranhas got sick of it, they brokeup and Publisher still held the rights for another Gothic titled game, which is a pure piece of ****!

But Gothic 3 is a masterpiece. First patch (1.12) made the game playable but the 900MB Community Patch made it as it should be. You don't know the meaning of "hard" difficulty until you played G3 with the CP and Balance Mod on! But we really shouldn't compare real 3D Open World games with 2D planes games full of invisible barriers. The only thing that makes the latter enjoyable is a good story like Bioware uses to give us. And while  DA 2 story is good,some of the art, FFS, is awful. The only thing I can think when I see a DA2 Elfh (urgh), other than a Na'vi, is Pinocchio turning into a donkey!

Modifié par RageGT, 25 mars 2011 - 11:07 .

[Drogo45]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

No, Dragon Age royally screwed up and there needs to be a change up of staff,

people do not listen to politely written letters they listen to the mob rattling their gates.

Perfect example of what the OP is talking about.  Thanks for this illustration.

[Chaos_1001]

Reinveil wrote...

Chaos_1001 wrote...

Very well said sim . Age is not the issue with what has been going on here. Maturity, tact, common sense and respect are very much at the center of this. Individuals going with this "bandwagon" of openly attacking a member of the development team Mike Laidlaw and some of the comments said ...... are infuriating at best. The fact the discussion is still going in that thread is mindboggling to say the least. Those comments and attacks have to stop, period. I really do not want to bring real life scenarios of how what your doing on these forums is related to these events. As intelligent individuals you can understand that for yourselves. While the internet gives you a voice it does not give you a liscense to say / do to whoever you want however you want. Please for the sake of improving our games we love so much alone. Stop this lynch-mob mentality bullsquat !

I think you're being overly-dramatic, to the point that it's making me wonder why you're getting so emotionally invested in the issue.  I think anyone that's even a little rational can agree that outright slandering someone is uncalled for, but nobody forced the man to make some of the comments he made in recent interviews either.  And seeing as how they were made in publications that anyone here can access and read for themselves, it stands to reason it's going to be talked about.

You're coming across as an overzealous Internet White Knight with this impassioned raving.  Your intentions are good enough, but perhaps you should dial it back a couple notches.

Ok you really dont get it .... I'm very tempted to show you directly... But instead I'll go this route.

Those comments and attacks have to stop, period. I really do not want to bring real life scenarios of how what your doing on these forums is related to these events. As intelligent individuals you can understand that for yourselves. While the internet gives you a voice it does not give you a liscense to say / do to whoever you want however you want.

I'll give you a hint I highlighted it ....

[Cybermortis]

Thank you.

I've seen at least half a dozen people posting that they either had or were going to trade the game in. And off the top of my head all of them had managed to finish the game.

I try to understand others viewpoints when it comes to what is good and what is bad, principally because much of this is often a matter of prospective. In regards DA2 I can understand why some people enjoyed it, I can also see why many hated it. However I can't understand people simply making excuses or ignoring all of the games problems - those that relate to how the game plays rather than the bugs. Nor can I understand why people would ignore some of the things that were done fairly well*.

(*Sorry, but I just can't bring myself to say they did anything right here. Even the responses we've been getting from Bioware and the Development teams seem to have managed to fall flat or backfire badly).

A long time ago I briefly ended up moderating a message board. One of the things I noted was that people had a couple of universal bad habits. First was a habit of not reading posts they were replying to correctly, second was reading more into posts than was there - and related to that was the habit of forgetting that written words don't come with a wry smile or knowing wink.

The last habit was of people getting irate over something, and replying while they were worked up - something I've done myself once in a while. One of my golden rules of message boards is not to post anything while you are worked up over something - always give yourself time to calm down and compose yourself before replying. This allows you to make more valid points, and often avoids making yourself look like an idiot**.

It is the latter habit so many people here are showing. The feelings about the game, for good or ill, are distorting the points people are often trying to make. This can be seen by the fact that the really aggressive/offensive complaints about the game have dropped off considerably in the last week or so. Basically people have had a chance to calm down and make their points in a more mature way...at least for the most part.

(**In fact I went and posted 'rules for posting' on that board, including the rule about not posting when you were angry/in a bad mood ect. This was a small board, and the posters took this to mind. The result was a remarkable drop in the number of flamewars - in fact I don't recall any serious arguments happening after I posted my list. Of course this board wasn't dealing with people who had just forked out a large amount of money on the things they were talking about)

Modifié par Cybermortis, 25 mars 2011 - 11:07 .

[DrGulag]

Having looked at the sales figures, it's rather worrying. I obviously have no love for this release and stated earlier that I would prefer to see it fail but I'm not liking those statistics.

-According to http://www.vgchartz.com/ the total figure for DA2 (all platforms) is about 900k at the moment.

-Origins sold over 3 million copies on consoles alone...

So in all likelihood what does it mean? That Dragon Age 2 might sell less than 50% in comparison?

Bioware really should have patched this game already atleast.

Modifié par DrGulag, 25 mars 2011 - 11:15 .

[Reinveil]

Chaos_1001 wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

Chaos_1001 wrote...

Very well said sim . Age is not the issue with what has been going on here. Maturity, tact, common sense and respect are very much at the center of this. Individuals going with this "bandwagon" of openly attacking a member of the development team Mike Laidlaw and some of the comments said ...... are infuriating at best. The fact the discussion is still going in that thread is mindboggling to say the least. Those comments and attacks have to stop, period. I really do not want to bring real life scenarios of how what your doing on these forums is related to these events. As intelligent individuals you can understand that for yourselves. While the internet gives you a voice it does not give you a liscense to say / do to whoever you want however you want. Please for the sake of improving our games we love so much alone. Stop this lynch-mob mentality bullsquat !

I think you're being overly-dramatic, to the point that it's making me wonder why you're getting so emotionally invested in the issue.  I think anyone that's even a little rational can agree that outright slandering someone is uncalled for, but nobody forced the man to make some of the comments he made in recent interviews either.  And seeing as how they were made in publications that anyone here can access and read for themselves, it stands to reason it's going to be talked about.

You're coming across as an overzealous Internet White Knight with this impassioned raving.  Your intentions are good enough, but perhaps you should dial it back a couple notches.

Ok you really dont get it .... I'm very tempted to show you directly... But instead I'll go this route.

Those comments and attacks have to stop, period. I really do not want to bring real life scenarios of how what your doing on these forums is related to these events. As intelligent individuals you can understand that for yourselves. While the internet gives you a voice it does not give you a liscense to say / do to whoever you want however you want.

I'll give you a hint I highlighted it ....

That sentence doesn't really make sense, so it's kind of hard for me to understand.

And you understand that in a way I'm actually agreeing with what you're saying, right?

[MDarwin]

Sandmanifest wrote...

DrGulag wrote...

Nonsense.

People have legitimate gripes with this rushed product and they are voicing their frustration. That's the only thing we can do as customers after paying 60 bucks for a release that let most of the community down.

Many are going into overdrive, because the response from Bioware has been completely ridiculous. You have seen the latest interviews right? And they are not being open or honest, just trying to cash in and protect their own asses. In a situation like this certain amount of rage is entirely justified.

This. What upsets me really is the latest interviews. Its... well, read the interviews. They're not going to change direction even a little it seems. Which sucks cause I liked Bioware but life goes on and all.  

That is what I think, too. Mr. Mike should just confirm that the DA Franchise will go down this track from now on and I will look for some other RPG titles.

That is why I believe, that nearly just about all of those feedback's, for a more of a return to a DAO style RPG, will be futile.

[Cybermortis]

The 7 million figure was almost certainly over all platforms.

[DrGulag]

The 7 million figure was almost certainly over all platforms.

But wasn't there confirmation at some point that Origins sold more on consoles?

So if the figure for Xbox360 and PS3 is around 3 million units, it couldn't have been 7 million in total.

vgchartz is supposed to be pretty reliable though.

[Reinveil]

Edit: Nevermind, faulty info.  Please ignore this!

Modifié par Reinveil, 25 mars 2011 - 11:27 .

[Cybermortis]

simfamSP wrote...

Cybermortis wrote...

The 7 million figure was almost certainly over all platforms.

Are you sure, then how does Origins not compete with ME2? I'm sure ME2 sold about 5 million world wide: PC and console. But were going off topic now.

The PC figures for DAO were some 3.5 million to date - I'm going to make an educated guess that this figure might be higher now, with all the fuss over DA2 and the Ultimate DAO package being almost half its price.

ME2 sold some 2 million units on PC and Xbox in the first week, and some 700k on the PS3 to date.

Modifié par Cybermortis, 25 mars 2011 - 11:26 .

[Luvinn]

I for one would celebrate on the day the internet becomes a mature place where its users use common decency and sense. The problem is as long as the internet remains a place where people can remain anonymous, post whatever nonsense they want, and rage until they tucker themselves out, its very unlikely to change. Its unfortunate too, because many people make great posts about the strengths and weaknesses of DA2, and it would be nice not only for us to read, but for Bioware to take note.

Fact is, if peoples personal information were attached to their posts, you wouldn't see nearly as many of these types of characters. I mean heck, just look at when Blizzard wanted to put peoples real names on their posts. Not saying thats right, but everyones a tough guy in 2 places: in a car, and when they are anonymous.

Modifié par Luvinn, 25 mars 2011 - 11:38 .

[Sabariel]

Not everyone who doesn't like the game is a raging troll. I've seen some very calm and eloquent posts stating disappointment or dislike.

[Reinveil]

Luvinn wrote...

Not saying thats right, but everyones a tough guy in 2 places: in a car, and when they are anonymous.

lol, very true.

[Serpieri Nei]

BY-TOR STORMDRAGON wrote...

The haters are spoiled brats. I have said before- I am not a BioWare gamer. I am a RPG-freak. People call Mass Effect and RPG. KOTOR as well. Bullshyt. Dragon Age Origins is a FREAKING AMAZING RPG. I think where BioWare went wrong was the title. It is that simple. Dragon Age "II" just left it WIDE OPEN as to what the game would be, and the Demo didn't help much. Had the title been "Dragon Age II: A Hero's Story", then I think the storyline would have been significantly altered WAY before the games release in the minds of EVERYONE.
I am on my second playthrough. I LOVE crawling dungeons and beating the skulls of enemies. I found the X-Box version, loaded onto the HDD, was flawless. I found ways to level up to 50. MAX. I had at one point 4,000 sovereigns from collecting 'garbage' and 'spelunking' but mostly skull-cracking at night. I suppose that's why I spent 40 hours before I got to the Deep Roads. But I digress.
Bytch all you want. Does anyone watch the credits? More people on a game than a major motion picture. Remember, I am NO BioWare fanboy. I detest shooters- which saturate the market. I miss the Final Fantasy franchise. I DO like the Elder Scrolls. So maybe you can see why I love the games so much. Real fun RPG's are a dime a dozen. Oh, and don't even talk "Fable". What a JOKE. If you hate the game...use it for a coaster. Bet your azz you will be first in line for DA:III. Spoiled brats.

Ah, the fanboi is resorting to name calling. How quaint.