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#126
Chaos_1001

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Reinveil wrote...

Chaos_1001 wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

Chaos_1001 wrote...

Very well said sim . Age is not the issue with what has been going on here. Maturity, tact, common sense and respect are very much at the center of this. Individuals going with this "bandwagon" of openly attacking a member of the development team Mike Laidlaw and some of the comments said ...... are infuriating at best. The fact the discussion is still going in that thread is mindboggling to say the least. Those comments and attacks have to stop, period. I really do not want to bring real life scenarios of how what your doing on these forums is related to these events. As intelligent individuals you can understand that for yourselves. While the internet gives you a voice it does not give you a liscense to say / do to whoever you want however you want. Please for the sake of improving our games we love so much alone. Stop this lynch-mob mentality bullsquat !


I think you're being overly-dramatic, to the point that it's making me wonder why you're getting so emotionally invested in the issue.  I think anyone that's even a little rational can agree that outright slandering someone is uncalled for, but nobody forced the man to make some of the comments he made in recent interviews either.  And seeing as how they were made in publications that anyone here can access and read for themselves, it stands to reason it's going to be talked about.

You're coming across as an overzealous Internet White Knight with this impassioned raving.  Your intentions are good enough, but perhaps you should dial it back a couple notches.


Ok you really dont get it .... I'm very tempted to show you directly... But instead I'll go this route.

Those comments and attacks have to stop, period. I really do not want to bring real life scenarios of how what your doing on these forums is related to these events. As intelligent individuals you can understand that for yourselves. While the internet gives you a voice it does not give you a liscense to say / do to whoever you want however you want.

I'll give you a hint I highlighted it ....



That sentence doesn't really make sense, so it's kind of hard for me to understand.

And you understand that in a way I'm actually agreeing with what you're saying, right?


I think a couple of things on your comments...

You actually do understand what is being said and for whatever reason are "playing" ignorant. Your 2nd comment kinda eluded to that..

To actually say I'm overly-dramatic on this... getting personally involved .... and more or less he had it comming ....and ...that i should back off  and let the cards fall as it were...

IF you are even half the Dragon Age Lore fan I am... You would be standing right with me against this mentality,hardcore!

Let me "paint a picture" for you and everyone else here...

The reason Bioware in fact delivers the quality content they do is there was a demand for bigger and better products. We'll start with DA O .. Lossely based on the themes of JRR Tolkien and DnD they wanted to create a unique rpg with elements used that differed from the usual format. They in fact spent a lot of time on it. It was not bug free ( no game is) even then people complained and moaned about the direction it took. Overall there was more people that bought it than people that bashed it. Fast forward to DA 2. Now the person in charge is tasked with completing the project in a very limited time frame. So .. not only with the limited time frame but also limited resources ( because of resource pooling for TOR ) this is easily one of the most stressful projects on the table. To the best of what they had to work with they delivered the game. It was not 100% polished , it had its in game flaws a few bugs went through some minor some major. The game was still enjoyable still delivered a great story. Was it perfect ...no. Was it playable ....yes. As far as who enjoyed what in the game and how that is up to the player. That said..

The community becomes polarized over their "opinion" of the game. An interview pops up with Mike Laidlaw who really had no choice but to "play neutral"  in the questions asked . ( anything else would be biased against him or bioware or ea ) Now some member(s) get the idea in their head that " I paid $60.00 for this game and I didnt like it , lets go remove this Mike Laidlaw from his place of employment in a coo of internet rage" And then the real colors of a "portion" of the community showed . Mike Laidlaw ..who busted his azz along with the team he had to deliver a quality product within the best of his ability within the time frame he had to get you the community and fans your game.

And you wanted to remove him and his staff for what ? Doing their best ? I seen more promise and creativity out of DA 2 than say... that of AoC.. That game although was an mmo, had 5.5 years worth of actual production. DA 2 had what 1.2 years tops ?

So honestly tell me ..... Is what you are doing right ? Or are you in fact just hating..,.. I too paid my $60.00.I am saying my contribution toward Bioware is a good venture . Please do vote with your wallet . Do not buy the game if you hate it so.. BUT ... the community has no right OR grounds whatsoever to attack anyone here on the forums or anyone who works at Bioware . That in itself is pure HATE ! Absolutly NOTHING you say or how you sugar-coat that makes it right on any level !

#127
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Reinveil wrote...

Luvinn wrote...

Not saying thats right, but everyones a tough guy in 2 places: in a car, and when they are anonymous.


lol, very true.


HaH! Made me lol.

#128
billy the squid

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Chaos_1001 wrote...

It appears the majority of those who hated the game (for whatever reasons) has resorted to "lynch-mob" style tactics to get their point across . Now for one single second think about this ...

What if it were you yourself in a similar position. How would you react to a community ( not all of them but a good portion of them ) openly attacking you and demanding you become a sacrificial lamb just to satisfy their biased opinions..

I am ( and honestly as a community you should be as well ) completly OUTRAGED at this ! I will not even go into real life applications of this style of thinking.  That should be absolutly obvious to any who actually think on this for 5 seconds.

Ok you disagree with the direction of the game, fine . Discuss your "opinion" and give reasons as to why you disagree with the direction of the game in the way of feedback . This bullsquat of lynch-mob mentality quite honestly is Damning and Condemns us as a community as a whole !

In closing Think about what you are doing and how it may effect someone else. I would not be surprised at all if this line of thinking continues on these forums, they may just consider shutting down the forums all together or even worse , dropping Dragon Age franchise all-together and re-focus their efforts on other projects.

knock it the **** off !

/end rant


When I hear that a mob wielding flaming torches and pitch forks has surrounded Bioware's office then I will concede the point that this has become lynch mob mentality.

Secondly, do you really think EA or Bioware for that matter will take any notice of what the community thinks when it comes to matters of employment. If people will get sacked its because the game flopped, the interviews were ham handed and mismanaged the game's release and development.  Employment law is a letigious minefield and no company in their right mind would sack employees because part of  the fanbase has figuratively kicked them in the balls.
Some of the criticism is harsh and vitriolic, so what? will it hurt their feelings? the world is not nice, people can be ars** and if they don't know this they better learn it quick.

Neither will EA drop the DA franchise if they believe they can squezee more cash out of it, particularlly if they can get away with shoveling out more of this tripe for £40 a pop.

Finally don't tell me what I should be outraged at, the holier that thou art attitude is very irritating, so I will reciprocate in kind...

knock it the **** off !

Modifié par billy the squid, 26 mars 2011 - 12:26 .


#129
RaenImrahl

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I'd live to get fired from a job because of a petition on a website. My lawyer would love it even more.

#130
DrGulag

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I'd live to get fired from a job because of a petition on a website. My lawyer would love it even more.


Maybe the employment agreement over at EA is as lenient towards the little man as the ToS lol.

Modifié par DrGulag, 26 mars 2011 - 12:21 .


#131
nopho

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Chaos_1001 wrote...
Let me "paint a picture" for you and everyone else here...

The reason Bioware in fact delivers the quality content they do is there was a demand for bigger and better products. We'll start with DA O .. Lossely based on the themes of JRR Tolkien and DnD they wanted to create a unique rpg with elements used that differed from the usual format. They in fact spent a lot of time on it. It was not bug free ( no game is) even then people complained and moaned about the direction it took. Overall there was more people that bought it than people that bashed it. Fast forward to DA 2. Now the person in charge is tasked with completing the project in a very limited time frame. So .. not only with the limited time frame but also limited resources ( because of resource pooling for TOR ) this is easily one of the most stressful projects on the table. To the best of what they had to work with they delivered the game. It was not 100% polished , it had its in game flaws a few bugs went through some minor some major. The game was still enjoyable still delivered a great story. Was it perfect ...no. Was it playable ....yes. As far as who enjoyed what in the game and how that is up to the player. That said..

The community becomes polarized over their "opinion" of the game. An interview pops up with Mike Laidlaw who really had no choice but to "play neutral"  in the questions asked . ( anything else would be biased against him or bioware or ea ) Now some member(s) get the idea in their head that " I paid $60.00 for this game and I didnt like it , lets go remove this Mike Laidlaw from his place of employment in a coo of internet rage" And then the real colors of a "portion" of the community showed . Mike Laidlaw ..who busted his azz along with the team he had to deliver a quality product within the best of his ability within the time frame he had to get you the community and fans your game.

And you wanted to remove him and his staff for what ? Doing their best ? I seen more promise and creativity out of DA 2 than say... that of AoC.. That game although was an mmo, had 5.5 years worth of actual production. DA 2 had what 1.2 years tops ?

So honestly tell me ..... Is what you are doing right ? Or are you in fact just hating..,.. I too paid my $60.00.I am saying my contribution toward Bioware is a good venture . Please do vote with your wallet . Do not buy the game if you hate it so.. BUT ... the community has no right OR grounds whatsoever to attack anyone here on the forums or anyone who works at Bioware . That in itself is pure HATE ! Absolutly NOTHING you say or how you sugar-coat that makes it right on any level !




well, i must tell that i got a few probelms with this one.

first, so what if they just got 1.2 years of time? i paid them for a full game, that they didn't hire more programmers/took more time isn't an excuse in my eyes. if i sell you tetris and tell you "but hey, i programmed it in one day, imagine how awesome it would have been if i had 3years!" would you pay me 60bucks? (no really, i can give you my email adress so we can discuss payment, right now i am in need of 60bucks^^)

i actually didn't enjoy the story, i enjoyed parts of it, some real much, but in the big picture of all, no.

to mike: i too think that he should go. i do not know that guy and i do not wish him any bad, but in an interview he more or less stated that if it were for him DA2 would have been even less..he called it complicated. if i want to play god of war i play god of war, if this guy wants to make fantasy rpg into buttonmashing than okay with me, but please not for a title wich i used to love for its depth. again i do not say he is evil/incompetent just that his idea of how an rpg should be isn't my and obviously not the idea of many others.

#132
Chaos_1001

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billy the squid wrote...

Chaos_1001 wrote...

It appears the majority of those who hated the game (for whatever reasons) has resorted to "lynch-mob" style tactics to get their point across . Now for one single second think about this ...

What if it were you yourself in a similar position. How would you react to a community ( not all of them but a good portion of them ) openly attacking you and demanding you become a sacrificial lamb just to satisfy their biased opinions..

I am ( and honestly as a community you should be as well ) completly OUTRAGED at this ! I will not even go into real life applications of this style of thinking.  That should be absolutly obvious to any who actually think on this for 5 seconds.

Ok you disagree with the direction of the game, fine . Discuss your "opinion" and give reasons as to why you disagree with the direction of the game in the way of feedback . This bullsquat of lynch-mob mentality quite honestly is Damning and Condemns us as a community as a whole !

In closing Think about what you are doing and how it may effect someone else. I would not be surprised at all if this line of thinking continues on these forums, they may just consider shutting down the forums all together or even worse , dropping Dragon Age franchise all-together and re-focus their efforts on other projects.

knock it the **** off !

/end rant


When I hear that a mob wielding flaming torches and pitch forks has surrounded Bioware's office then I will concede the point that this has become lynch mob mentality.

Secondly, do you really think EA or Bioware for that matter will take any notice of what the community thinks when it comes to matters of employment. If people will get sacked its because the game flopped, the interviews were ham handed and mismanaged the game's release and development.  Employment law is a letigious minefield and no company in their right mind would sack employees because part of  the fanbase has figuratively kicked them in the balls.
Some of the criticism is harsh and vitriolic, so what? will it hurt their feelings? the world is not nice, people can be ars** and if they don't know this they better learn it quick.

Neither will EA drop the DA franchise if they believe they can squezee more cash out of it, particularlly if they can get away with shoveling out more of this tripe for £40 a pop.

Finally don't tell me what I should be outraged at, the holier that thou art attitude is very irritating, so I will reciprocate in kind...

knock it the **** off !



So as long as you paid ( x ) money for the game it is completly ok to openly bash, hate on and attempt to ruin another individual ?  If that is indeed what "you" are saying here ....  

You know what .....seriously , if you have nothing consturctive in the form of feedback to the game(s) or anyone involved in this game or toward anyone on the forms ...
GTFO !

#133
NKKKK

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@OP you mad?

#134
DrGulag

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At this rate this whole place is going to blow up lol.

Modifié par DrGulag, 26 mars 2011 - 12:54 .


#135
Cybermortis

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billy the squid wrote...


Employment law is a letigious minefield and no company in their right mind would sack employees because part of  the fanbase has figuratively kicked them in the balls.


European employment laws differ significantly to those in the USA. US companies can, as I understand it, basically sack people for almost any reason they like.

Something worth passing comment on, since comments about sacking staff don't consider legal protection or lack of for employees in different countries.

I seriously doubt staff would be fired over this, and in many cases members of the development team are being used as scapegoats for bad decisions made by people above them. For example you can't blame the poor souls who had to write the coding for all the bugs, if they were simply not given the time they needed to do so. Likewise it is somewhat unfair to blame everything on the guy running the Development team. While you may not think his ideas regarding the game were worth anything. Bare in mind that he would have had to explain his ideas to someone higher up, who then gave the green light for the project to go ahead. And again, if he wasn't given enough time for development that was not his call but someone else's.

There, a possibly futile attempt to bring reason into the thread.

Modifié par Cybermortis, 26 mars 2011 - 01:07 .


#136
DA2 is Awsum

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good thang they are canadians, home of da free & brave rpg saviors

#137
Lord_Valandil

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Well, some people have actually detailed why they don't like the game...
And the fanboys answer..."GTFO TROLL, TROLL, WHINER, CRYBABY"...so, some people who actually "love" the game (or so they say) aren't better than the ones who are attacking it.
People who say "W00T DA2 IS AWESOME, PLAY IT AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN YOU'RE A SAD TROLL" don't help either.
Certainly, creating hate threads, insulting and screaming will not take us anywhere...

If they drop the DA franchise, maybe it'll be for the better, you know?
I'm not pleased with DA2.
Besides, I don't think they'll kill a cash cow just because some (or a lot of) people didn't like it, right?

#138
DariusKalera

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Cybermortis wrote...

European employment laws differ significantly to those in the USA. US companies can, as I understand it, basically sack people for almost any reason they like.


It depends on the state and whether or not they have "right to work" laws on the books.

#139
Lord_Valandil

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FedericoV wrote...
The game was advertised in a correct way (like it or not) and you know what to expect. There was even a demo. If you have bought the game nonetheless and you do not like it, it's your fault. I know what to expect and I'm only disappointed by the lack of variety/life in terms of setting (and even by the overall lack of polish due to the rushed dev cycle).


Let me tell you something.
It's not my fault. Or anyone's fault. Why?
Because the game wasn't advertised in a correct way, I didn't read in any preview that there was a lot of shameless recycling, that the enemies were hordes of generic npc that parachute from the sky...and explode with a swing of your sword, that the plot is a mess and the entire game lacks polish and care.
I didn't know what to expect, because everything was flowers, sugar-coated previews and the trailer obviously wouldn't say "FIGHT THROUGH EXCITING RECYCLED DUNGEONS, IT'S THE SAME IN EVERY CAVE".
The demo...was kinda crappy, but still, I had hopes. I loved Origins, I wasn't expecting something bad.

So I guess I'm a stupid man because I bought the game. Silly me.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 26 mars 2011 - 01:22 .


#140
billy the squid

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Chaos_1001 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Chaos_1001 wrote...

It appears the majority of those who hated the game (for whatever reasons) has resorted to "lynch-mob" style tactics to get their point across . Now for one single second think about this ...

What if it were you yourself in a similar position. How would you react to a community ( not all of them but a good portion of them ) openly attacking you and demanding you become a sacrificial lamb just to satisfy their biased opinions..

I am ( and honestly as a community you should be as well ) completly OUTRAGED at this ! I will not even go into real life applications of this style of thinking.  That should be absolutly obvious to any who actually think on this for 5 seconds.

Ok you disagree with the direction of the game, fine . Discuss your "opinion" and give reasons as to why you disagree with the direction of the game in the way of feedback . This bullsquat of lynch-mob mentality quite honestly is Damning and Condemns us as a community as a whole !

In closing Think about what you are doing and how it may effect someone else. I would not be surprised at all if this line of thinking continues on these forums, they may just consider shutting down the forums all together or even worse , dropping Dragon Age franchise all-together and re-focus their efforts on other projects.

knock it the **** off !

/end rant


When I hear that a mob wielding flaming torches and pitch forks has surrounded Bioware's office then I will concede the point that this has become lynch mob mentality.

Secondly, do you really think EA or Bioware for that matter will take any notice of what the community thinks when it comes to matters of employment. If people will get sacked its because the game flopped, the interviews were ham handed and mismanaged the game's release and development.  Employment law is a letigious minefield and no company in their right mind would sack employees because part of  the fanbase has figuratively kicked them in the balls.
Some of the criticism is harsh and vitriolic, so what? will it hurt their feelings? the world is not nice, people can be ars** and if they don't know this they better learn it quick.

Neither will EA drop the DA franchise if they believe they can squezee more cash out of it, particularlly if they can get away with shoveling out more of this tripe for £40 a pop.

Finally don't tell me what I should be outraged at, the holier that thou art attitude is very irritating, so I will reciprocate in kind...

knock it the **** off !



So as long as you paid ( x ) money for the game it is completly ok to openly bash, hate on and attempt to ruin another individual ?  If that is indeed what "you" are saying here ....  

You know what .....seriously , if you have nothing consturctive in the form of feedback to the game(s) or anyone involved in this game or toward anyone on the forms ...
GTFO !


Essentially yes, so long as there have been no violations of the forum rules or legislation any one can say whatever they want. Is it always nice? no, but considering others have the same right, so apptly illustrated by telling me to GTFO. Having a hissy fit because the developers are getting slammed due to the game being below a section of the community's standards is ludicrous.

Again do you really think EA would risk litigation by sacking a developer because an internet forum bashed  them? What will destroy a career is being associated with a complete failure of a game, will this happen to the current team? Unlikely

Quite frankly, I have made no attacks on the development team and any criticisms I or any one else has about the game are not dictated by slavishly defering to your preconception of what you think is constructive, forums exist to allow people to say what they think as long as no rules are breached, decorum on the forum is entirely up to the individual not someone arbitrarily telling others to

"knock it the **** off !" as you said so politely

My constructive criticism to "you" is don't get preachy it doesn't go down well.

Ps. I choose not to GTFO whether "you" think I am being constructive or not.

Modifié par billy the squid, 26 mars 2011 - 01:43 .


#141
Guest_simfamUP_*

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Alas peace in the internet is impossible. Only under strict rules and tyrannical methods could one do so. The internet allows one to speak freely with no consequence. Humans by their very nature are chaotic, selfish, and in general, really different people. The internet shows what humans are since there are no consequences and thus...The forums as it is today.

#142
Lord Nikon 001

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sanadawarrior wrote...

RunicDragons wrote...

I don't understand... Is it just the Americans who hates this game?

Because i really enjoy it, and all the people i know who owns the game really like it...


I'm an American and I love it! :P

Edit: Out of the 4 people I know personaly that played the game only one was indifferent to it and the others loved it. However non of them bother to go on forums or whatnot lol...


On the other side of the fence, I have 7 people I know who played Origins and loved it. I bought DA2 and had a little "party" with these people the night I got it to show it off. After almost two hours of play only one of them wanted to borrow the game... and I think that was because my buddy needed my laptop to go with it.Posted Image

All of them said they wouldn't buy it. A few might rent it if they had nothing else to do.

#143
Caralampio

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What's the OP getting at? There are bullies and trolls on both sides of the issue but most posts one sees are within acceptable parameters.

#144
cljqnsnyc

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Censorship is a bad idea.....period! Attempting to silence criticism or dissenting opinions in a forum designed for discussion is rather pointless. I personally feel I have the right to love, like, or dislike whatever product I choose. If someone else doesn't agree with the way in which I emphasize my pleasure or distaste, that's fine.

The problem is people cannot agree to disagree or extend the very same courtesy they expect themselves. I would never allow someone else to tell me how I should think, feel, or react in any situation. Every product available for public consumption is open to criticism. Plain and simple. DA2 has proven to be a very divisive subject particularly with rpg fans of DAO...for good reason. People are going to express their opinions about it, like it or not. How they choose to do so is their decision.

#145
Chaos_1001

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Just a quick thought....

For those of you who actually took a stand against this line of thinking I thank you as a human being and a fellow game nerd lol :)

For those of you who "bandwagoned" this venture well best of luck where ever you end up oh and dont let the door hit you in the azz on the way out :P

/last post in this thread by me

Modifié par Chaos_1001, 26 mars 2011 - 05:23 .


#146
PlumPaul93

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the OP's post calling this a "lynch mob" is absolutely being waaay overdramatic. Nobody should be attacking or threatening a dev or laidlaw (whatever his name is). I really am enjoying DA2 but the facts still remain the story and design are lacking compared to DAO. People have a right to complain or disagree in the direction of the franchise, but both sides need to chill out and stop being overdramtic.

#147
Astranagant

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I don't think most of the people who complain hated the game. It's not really an issue of hating the game, it's that they're hating Bioware for disappointing them when they were expecting a product like DAO and got a product more like ME2.
 
There are certainly legitimate complaints about DA2, but it's not a bad game by any measure, just as it's not the perfect game a lot of people were hoping for.

Modifié par Astranagant, 26 mars 2011 - 05:46 .


#148
Guest_Fiddles_stix_*

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Astranagant wrote...

I don't think most of the people who complain hated the game. It's not really an issue of hating the game, it's that they're hating Bioware for disappointing them when they were expecting a product like DAO and got a product more like ME2.
 
There are certainly legitimate complaints about DA2, but it's not a bad game by any measure, just as it's not the perfect game a lot of people were hoping for.


That's mostly true for me, although the complaints about recycled environments still stand.

#149
AtreiyaN7

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I don't think anyone has an issue with people posting constructive criticism. It's the constant drama that's causing problems/hostility.

I see people trying to take their anger out on others or blame others for their woes, and they usually do it in an extremely hyperbolic and overwrought manner, in addition to resorting to childish insults. I can almost guarantee that if you search the threads, you will find someone somewhere who pulls the elitist act and then proceeds to accuse anyone who likes the game of being drooling morons who are illiterate and suffer from ADHD.

Civility would be nice, but at this point, I don't really expect to see it from anyone. I've seen less than mature behavior from those on my side of the fence, but such is life. There are always bad apples no matter which side of an issue you stand on.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 26 mars 2011 - 06:09 .


#150
lobi

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Astranagant wrote...

I don't think most of the people who complain hated the game. It's not really an issue of hating the game, it's that they're hating Bioware for disappointing them when they were expecting a product like DAO and got a product more like ME2.
 
There are certainly legitimate complaints about DA2, but it's not a bad game by any measure, just as it's not the perfect game a lot of people were hoping for.

 Mass effect 2 was actually better done than DA2  because it fit with the original IP quite a lot and had some continuity and not just in story.