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[Elite Midget]

Since many here are sure that the Dead simply Must return I've decided to make an easy thread that will prove said mindset wrong. Thus don't expect a lot of text since that tends to push away the fanatics who will use tl dr as an excuse. With that said, here we go!


Miranda - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip.
-Possible Death.
-If with Cerberus she returns to her post she had before joining Shepad.
-If isn't with Cerberus than she most likely gets vouched by Shepard to Andersan without mention of her Cerberus ties. In exchange Andersan provides protection for Oriana since Cerberus will no longer do so.
-Unloyal.
-Bioware has shown that LIs don't have to stay in your Party ala VS/Liara.
-Hit it and Quit It.

Jack- Leaving Variables

-Time Skips and Jack has a history of drifting.
-If you One Night Stand her she will leave even if Loyal.
-Stated she would leave anyway.
-Possible death.
-Neural Decay may force her into long term treatment during the Time Skip.
-Unloyal.
-Bioware has shown that LIs don't have to stay in your Party ala VS/Liara.
-Hit it and Quit It.
-If Shepard is a Cerberus loyalist still after ME2 to ME3.

Thane - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip
-Unavoidable death due to illness.
-Death via Suicide Mission.
-Unloyal
-Bioware has shown that LIs don't have to stay in your Party ala VS/Liara.
-Hit It and Quit It.

Mordin - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip
-Old Age and Death by it
-Possible Retirement due to Age.
-Possible Death
-Unloyal
-Sciencentific Pursuits. Such as pushing him, for Time Skip and Beyond, to either Keep Genophage Updated or Modify it. Not to mention working on awnsers to the Collector threat with or without Cerberus/Collector's Base.

Garrus - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip
-Possible Death
-Unloyal
-Hinted by Bioware that Garrus will/must leave to reach full potiential. Garrus has a history of leaving.
-Bioware has shown that LIs don't have to stay in your Party ala VS/Liara.
-Hit it and Quit It.

Grunt - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip
-Possible Death
-Unloyal
-Shaman sends E-Mail mentioning that Grunt may stay untill the Mission is done. Hghly implied that Grunt will return to his clan.
-Grunt isn't the type to sit around for years doing nothing. Returning to his Warlike Planet is far more enticeing for the Ultimate Krogan.
-Left in Happy Liquid Tube.

Legion - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip
-Possible Death.
-Unloyal.
-May be sent to Cerberus.
-Foreshadowed Quarian Civil War or reignited Conflict with the Geth.

Jacob - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip.
-Possible Death.
-Unloyal.
-Bioware has shown that LIs don't have to stay in your Party ala VS/Liara.
-If with Cerberus he returns to his old Job is Miranda lives. If not he's assigned elsewhere by TIM.
-If not with Cerberus than possible placed under Andersan by Shepard vouching with mention of Cerberus history.
-Hit it and Quit It.

Samara - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip.
-Possible Death.
-Unloyal.
-If Shepard is Renegade.
-Code compells her to leave instead of doing nothing for years.

Morinth - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip.
-Possible Death.
-Murdering Psycopath that is compelled by her disease to drift and continue killing.
-States she will leave anyway.

Tali - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip.
-Possible Death.
-Unloyal.
-Bioware has shown that LIs don't have to stay in your Party ala VS/Liara.
-Foreshadowing by Bioware on a future Quarian Civil War or reignited conflict with the Geth.
-Hit It and Quit It.

Kasumi - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip.
-Possible Death.
-Unloyal.
-Being Hunted.
-States she'll leave afterwards anyway.

Zaeed - Leaving Variables

-Time Skip.
-Possible Death.
-Unloyal.
-Possible retaking over the Blue Suns.
-States he'll leave afterwards anyway.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 25 mars 2011 - 05:42 .

[Elite Midget]

Feel free to mention if I missed any of the Squaddies or if you want me to include why the ME1 crew wont return either. Hell, VS has a slim to no chance of being a Squaddie again and I'm an Ashley Fan.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 25 mars 2011 - 05:41 .

[Commander_Adept]

It's entirely unlikely for all prior squadmates to not come back as part of your team. If they died or are unloyal in Mass 2, they probably just wouldn't join you.

I see it like this; Imagine the squad select screen. How it's just got the datapad for unused slots? Or if that character died, it's them but all red? I believe that will probably happen for the entire game. That character slot just stays the datapad (Or whatever). They won't be integral to the story, but can make it much easier. If Mordin survived, you would have an easier time convincing the Salarian Special tasks Group to join you than if he had died, etc. It could still be done, but it would be slightly more difficult.

Think like Tali's loyalty mission; I think it'll be like that in a way. You win the loyalty of Tali and keep her not exiled if you have high paragon/renegade, or talked to Veetor, Kal'Reegar and the Admirals before going to the Alarei. But in Mass 3, if your paragade score isn't very high, you'd be having to choose between things, but it's much easier if Mordin were there.

Another example is like Virmire. If Garrus isn't in your crew, its much easier to convince Wrex to not freak out... Just like if you'd gotten his family armor.

[jamesp81]

Bioware has strongly indicated that people who got all or most of their team KIA in the SM are going to have a hard time with ME3. Make of that what you will. Not bringing ME1 and ME2 characters back is a poor decision if that's what they do, however.

[Elite Midget]

Of course that suggetion would require quite a bit of work, money, manpower, time, and the such over the alternative. Maybe Bioware would do this if they were on their own but they're with EA now.

Lets not forget how EA does business, shall we?

That the Variables as you will but I put them out there for you. Lets also not forget that variables that would force them to leave even if they're alive and loyal. Ex: Thane, Mordin, Samara, Morinth, Zaeed, Kasumi, ect...

Modifié par Elite Midget, 25 mars 2011 - 06:20 .

[jamesp81]

Oh, BTW OP, you spelled Anderson wrong.

[jamesp81]

Elite Midget wrote...

Of course thta suggetion would require quite a bit of work, money, manpower, time, and the such over the alternative. Maybe Bioware would do this if they were on their own but they're with EA now.

Lets not forget how EA does business, shall we?

Yes, I'm sure it would be cheaper to hire all new VAs, write all new backstories, new textures, new faces, new animations than it would be to reuse much of that work.

If you aren't detecting the sarcasm, then report to Repair Center #42 to get your sarcasm detector re-calibrated.

[Elite Midget]

It would be cheaper, easier, faster, requires less work, and ect than intergrating the dead into the ME3 plot with the assumption that none of them are needed.

Of course them being dead is just one of the many Variables that would push them to leaving dureing the Time Skip anyway. Some of which I listed in my first post.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 25 mars 2011 - 06:23 .

[jamesp81]

I think pretty much everything you said is wrong.

[Elite Midget]

Care to elaborate or are you one of those that only see Alive or Dead as the only Variables? If so than you're misinformed, wrong, and not worth my time educating.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 25 mars 2011 - 07:02 .

[Commander_Adept]

jamesp81 wrote...

I think pretty much everything you said is wrong.

Yep

[Elite Midget]

And yet another that doesn't elaborate? Well, I suppose there's no such thing as bad publicity. Thanks for the bump even if you didn't really contribute to the topic at hand.

[Almostfaceman]

There's not any reason you couldn't put all of this opinion in the linked thread, which of course existed before yours and was still easy to find:

http://social.biowar...5/index/6665116

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 25 mars 2011 - 07:12 .

[Commander_Adept]

Elite Midget wrote...

And yet another that doesn't elaborate? Well, I suppose there's no such thing as bad publicity. Thanks for the bump even if you didn't really contribute to the topic at hand.

I did elaborate... In the first reply of this thread.

[Elite Midget]

I responded to that and it was mostly pointed at james who hasn't contributed at all.

Also, this Thread couldn't fit in that one. All in all it would end up getting lost in the pages. This way the facts are out in the open for all to see.

Besides, many just respond to the first post and ignore all the others. It's a pity but this is the internet.

[Rivercurse]

Rated your own thread 5 stars, op?

[Elite Midget]

Of course. I never do it so why the heck not? After all, what I've posted is just some of the Variables that Bioware put in ME2 for the Squaddies.

Though thanks for the free bump.

[ADelusiveMan]

I'm pretty sure it will be a mix of ME2, ME1 and new characters for the squad in ME3 at this point. I bet we will see them all eventually in-game, but I honestly don't see Wrex or Thane returning as squad members in Mass Effect 3; possibly not at all for Thane depending on if he dies or not.

[Commander_Adept]

In any case, I don't think that Bioware would make a bunch of characters who all have flaws, strengths, and intense backstory only not to feature them at all. They expect the player to have lost one or two (Maybe more depending on their Mass 2) of them to alter the story... I honestly really expect all of the Mass 2 people to come back to Mass 3, at the extreme very least in a supporting role. I think probably the only past squadmates who won't be directly controlled by the player are Wrex and Liara... They're busy. VS will join you again (Unless of course, you're still allied with Cerberus), Garrus and Tali would come back, obviously, even if you take out the fanservice point of view on this. I'd believe their romances having been only for fans, but their actual presence is more than likely always intended.

And yes, there will be at least 2 new crew members. At least in the beginning, playing a Miranda and Jacob/Ashley and Kaidan role.

If Bioware keeps with tradition, we'll lose one of our first squadmates in the first mission. (Rest in Peace, Jenkins. Rest in Pieces, Wilson)

Of course, choices you make in Mass 2 could ruin any chances of some characters returning to your squad, and that's disregarding the SM completely. If you get Jack to the point where she'll only say "**** off" to you, she probably won't rejoin your crew, but she'd definitely at the very least have a cameo.

Also, I bet that Kasumi and Zaeed will be the only non-returning squadmates anyway. DLC is great, but doubtful to carry over much. It would be ridiculous to make someone not only buy Mass 2, but also the DLC for Mass 2 in order to get the entirely full experience. I do believe that it is NECESSARY to buy Mass 2 first, however.

This is why I believe Bioware ported Mass 2 to the PS3. The xbox is going to have a lot of trouble with this data, it may have to go onto 3 or 4 discs to carry it all... Which will be a little difficult. Though that'll barely scratch the surface of what a Blu-Ray disc can do, so the Ps3 will be all good on that.

Variables, variables everywhere. Much more important variables going into Mass 3 than 2.

Kinda the point of Mass Effect, bro

[Elite Midget]

Cameo's and Temp Squaddie Status can easily clear that up. Making them Permanent Squaddies against would ruin the characters due to the many variables that outright deny any chance of them returning as Squaddies.

Tali and Garrus has plenty of reasins to leave. One of which is the upcoming Quarian Conflict and Garrus leaving because that's what he generally does. Especially when he figures out what Aria and others have said to be true. Which is that unless he leaves Shepard he'll never grow into the man he was meant to be. Thus by not growing, and staying, he would be doing Shepard a disservice and offer unneeded risk.

Kasumi and Zaeed can easily return as Cameo's based on their histories. Kasumi being hunted and Zaeed finally taking back which is his.

Bioware wont sell ME3 on 3 or 4 disks. The Royalties that Microsoft would demand would make it too unprofitable. Especially with EA running things. Even than ME2 didn't even come close to filling the Max Compacity of both Disks combined.

If ME3 is just as long or longer than ME2 than it should fit on 2 disks just fine. Especially since Bioware doen't rely as heavily on CGI as many other large disk games tend to do.

Maybe that's the case they ported it or maybe it isn't. All we know from the porting is that Bioware wanted to expand the ME Adudience or so they've told us.

If all Variables aren't taken into consideration and use than what was the point of giving the illusion of choice? Furthermore, you must factor in the Time Skip between ME2->ME3 and how Bioware, in the past and recently, handles said Time Skips. They have a history and history has proven that they always go through the same route.

Furthermore, Bioware has no qualms bringing back old VA to do Voice Work in sequals in their games even if said returning VAs are no longer part of the crew. Thus I see no reason why Bioware wouldn't do as such again for ME3? What with that Time Skip thing and all as well as all the other variables plagueing the deceased.

[Commander_Adept]

Midget, I really just don't see your line of reasoning here. And I've read many of your points on this subject the last two weeks.

I understand that there are variables that would eliminate characters from coming into the next game's squad. At the same time, I don't think that's going to mean that they're permanently not on the next squad. Like what's been said, it'll probably just end up being an extra space on the team that is empty due to lack of alive or willing prior characters.

I find it doubtful that Garrus, who's been with Shepard this entire time, would bail on him at this juncture, right before the big fight. Sure he's "wasting his potential," but Shepard needs the best of the best to be with him, and I doubt Shepard trusts most people more than he trusts Garrus. Tali is of a similar path, though I could believe her sticking with the fleet if needbe.

I'm also not necessarily saying that 100% of the Mass 2 squad will return as playable options; I find it doubtful that Morinth will stick around. Thane as well... Maybe Kolyat will join, who knows

Think about Dragon Age Origins; There are a lot of characters on your team who can betray you/be permakilled during the game, and often that just leaves their space empty... It's the same after Virmire. It'd be very easy to say that space was just never occuppied by a character who had previously died

[ADelusiveMan]

I know you weren't talking to me with this, but I felt like responding all the same...

Commander_Adept wrote…

I find it doubtful that Garrus, who's been with Shepard this entire time, would bail on him at this juncture, right before the big fight. Sure he's "wasting his potential," but Shepard needs the best of the best to be with him, and I doubt Shepard trusts most people more than he trusts Garrus. Tali is of a similar path, though I could believe her sticking with the fleet if needbe.

I agree with this completely. I honestly see Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, and Tali returning for the two reasons you listed (for Garrus and Tali) but I think that Miranda and Jacob will stay because you are still serving aboard the SR-2, which has pretty much been confirmed by Tricia Helfer confirming her return as EDI. I foresee the VS returning, possibly as a squadmate but I wouldn't be surprised if they were a 'ship-only' character, similar to Joker, Dr. Chakwas, or Kelly. It's doubtful Liara will return as a squadmate because she is now the Shadow Broker. I don't think Wrex will return either as a squadmate, because he is the leader of Clan Urdnot. I think it's possible Grunt, Jack, Kasumi, Legion, Mordin, and Zaeed will return, and possibly even Morinth. It's doubtful Samara or Thane will because Thane could be dead by the time ME3 takes place, and Samara's oath was to only help Shepard defeat the Collectors.
That's my take on it all.

Modifié par ADelusiveMan, 25 mars 2011 - 09:33 .

[Gentleman Moogle]

 Why does everyone who takes the 'it'd be too hard to do this' approach forget that the entire point of ME2 was building a new and loyal team? Are you telling me that it makes sense for us to go through the entire game, bust our humps to get as much of the team to survive as possible, go through all the trouble of building up a team of purely loyal characters who will follow Shepard into hell and back...


And then go around and not do anything else with them 'because it would be hard to code'?


Sorry. Can't see it. Doesn't make sense. 


Also:  

Modifié par Gentleman Moogle, 25 mars 2011 - 09:58 .

[ADelusiveMan]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Also:  

You just had to go there, didn't you?

[aimlessgun]

Thank you for making this thread. It will be convenient to necro when the character previews start coming out.