1053 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...
Kaidan Alive Y/N
Kaidan LI Y/N
Ashley Alive Y/N
Ashley LI Y/N

These look like true/false flags to me.

Variables.

Kaidashley Willenko = always alive.
Ashdan Aleniams = always virmired.

These are constants.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Kaidan Alive Y/N
Kaidan LI Y/N
Ashley Alive Y/N
Ashley LI Y/N

These look like true/false flags to me.

Variables.

Kaidashley Willenko = always alive.
Ashdan Aleniams = always virmired.

These are constants.

Elite Midget wrote...

Feel free to mention if I missed any of the Squaddies or if you want me to include why the ME1 crew wont return either. Hell, VS has a slim to no chance of being a Squaddie again and I'm an Ashley Fan.

Beep boop Slim to no chance of being a squaddie again! First page, second post.

And honestly, by bringing the VS back as a central plot character you risk more in "text most players won't get to see that we have to write" than bringing anyone else back. I'm looking at you, Kaidan.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 avril 2011 - 09:47 .

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Kaidan Alive Y/N
Kaidan LI Y/N
Ashley Alive Y/N
Ashley LI Y/N

These look like true/false flags to me.

Variables.

Kaidashley Willenko = always alive.
Ashdan Aleniams = always virmired.

These are constants.

Except that that would require to have Kaidan and Ashley the exact same dialogue so, no.

Modifié par Phaedon, 10 avril 2011 - 09:49 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Kaidan Alive Y/N
Kaidan LI Y/N
Ashley Alive Y/N
Ashley LI Y/N

These look like true/false flags to me.

Variables.

Kaidashley Willenko = always alive.
Ashdan Aleniams = always virmired.

These are constants.

Except that that would require to have Kaidan and Ashley the exact same dialogue so, no.

Try to discuss that in "Kaidan&Ashley DLC wishlist" thread.

And the real variables require the same characters to have different dialogue, so yeah...

[lovgreno]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Kaidan Alive Y/N
Kaidan LI Y/N
Ashley Alive Y/N
Ashley LI Y/N

These look like true/false flags to me.

Variables.

Kaidashley Willenko = always alive.
Ashdan Aleniams = always virmired.

These are constants.

There is no Kaidashey Willenko or Ashdan Aleniams. There is only Ashley or Kaidan. To know wich of them we are going to have in ME3 we need to know who was virmired in ME1. In other words there is a variable dependant on choices in ME1 there.

Thus your constants does not exist.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

One of the central arguments behind the variables is that it'll add to the amount of dialogue needed, and will make things harder to write.

Bringing Kaidan and Ashley back requires they balance the squad around the assumtion that 80% of the playerbase has a full on soldier, and the other 20% has a biotic engineer thingummy (I assume ratios are something around there, based on forum-ing).

If none of the missions are character specific (which there is absolutely no need for them to be), and character development is done incidentally, though on-ship chats or through certain squadmates being flagged as being "interested" in certain missions, including any old squaddie risks far less unseen work than is implicit in bringing back Alenko.

Alternately, if you're going to argue that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Kaidan and Ashley, then it seems logical to assume that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Thane Krios vs. his replacement, Thune Krakoia. Or Grunt's replacement if he's dead, Guont. Or everybody's favorite replacement for any dead squad member: Whole Team is Jacob. There, by following your assumption that all living characters share the same dialogue, I've eliminated ALL the variables.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 avril 2011 - 10:21 .

[lovgreno]

^@ GeekGirl: Also there is little detail about Ashley and Kaidan being of different genders so they have to make two different sets of voice overs dependant on VARIABLES anyway. Funny how some said this kind of thing would be too unpractical and a waste of time, work and disc space.

[sponge56]

Elite Midget wrote...

That wasen't directed at you, kitty. It was to the other with a Garrus Avatar who I still find ironic that he believes he makes a point when he doesn't mind others are getting screwed since Garrus is already getting in.

Also, don't you know? Words don't hurt anyone with half a brain.

your avatar is a police car, therefore by your logic anything you say about the police is to invaladated as you are biased

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Arcian wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

There, by following your assumption that all living characters share the same dialogue, I've eliminated ALL the variables.

Have I ever told you how much I love you?

Shut up baby, I know it.

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Alternately, if you're going to argue that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Kaidan and Ashley, then it seems logical to assume that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Thane Krios vs. his replacement, Thune Krakoia. Or Grunt's replacement if he's dead, Guont. Or everybody's favorite replacement for any dead squad member: Whole Team is Jacob. There, by following your assumption that all living characters share the same dialogue, I've eliminated ALL the variables.

The premise for Ashley and Kaidan to share 90% the same character is pinpointed by their collective dub: The Virmire Survivor. Sure they have different background (although not that different by the ME standards: both are Humans and carreer Alliance military). But it never needs to be addressed agains in the game much, as the Virmire mission (and especially the part where they were saved at the expense of the other's life) is supposed to have the most deep and relevant impact on their now shared character. This has been only reinforced by ME2 where they assume the same role. Therefore the Virmire survivor is pretty much a constant.

And replacements won't work on the ME2 squad, because the Variabes are not only about death. For example, Thane may make it through the "suicide mission" all right, but be totally f*cked up due to the failure of finding his son. Same with Tali. Samara can be at peace with her past, or may still have that vow it kill Morinth unaccomplished, or she can be Morinth. Zaeed may still have a Vido to kill. Garrus may be paragonized (again) or renegadized (again), which, given his comeback, will probably be disregared (again), and it would suck, but fortunately I will not bear witness to it, since I've decided I don't need another round of calibrations, no matter what, and unchecked his loyalty flag during the fight with the Super Baby Terminator.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 10 avril 2011 - 11:26 .

[Welsh Inferno]

Man this thread was so fun to read over the last 3/4 pages!

I applaud you warriors of the er.. variables!

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 10 avril 2011 - 11:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Kaidan Alive Y/N
Kaidan LI Y/N
Ashley Alive Y/N
Ashley LI Y/N

These look like true/false flags to me.

Variables.

Kaidashley Willenko = always alive.
Ashdan Aleniams = always virmired.

These are constants.

Elite Midget wrote...

Feel free to mention if I missed any of the Squaddies or if you want me to include why the ME1 crew wont return either. Hell, VS has a slim to no chance of being a Squaddie again and I'm an Ashley Fan.

Beep boop Slim to no chance of being a squaddie again! First page, second post.

I can't speak for Elite Midget, but I don't see the Variables mentioned as the reason for the supposition that the VS has slim chances.

So the point stands: the people with the "Ah yes, Variables..." sig just demonstrate the lack of ability to comprehend their opponents' arguments.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 10 avril 2011 - 11:07 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Elite Midget wrote...

Fact is they're both owned by Bioware and by proxy EA that has a history with these things. Or are you going to ignore the EA part again?

Yes we do. Bioware is releaseing a Bridgeing Comic, they have many times more variables that deny any Squaddie staying, all Squaddies can die(And we have VS/Wrex as PERFECT examples that Naysayers pretend doesn't exist), and furthermore each and ever Mass Effect game was stated by Bioware as being Standalone experiences.

This was just the first one I saw, but I remember EM saying that Wrex and the VS were proof of concept several times in the thread (though god knows half of those coulda been in one of the other squaddie threads). If you're not willing to make that intuitive leap, that's fine. But saying "VS/Wrex are Perfect examples" as part of a retort directed toward people contradicting his current thesis seems to indicate he thinks they are somehow related.

Maybe I'm just not seeing all the... rhetorical variables present here.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 avril 2011 - 11:15 .

[Dave666]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
Kaidan Alive Y/N
Kaidan LI Y/N
Ashley Alive Y/N
Ashley LI Y/N

These look like true/false flags to me.

Variables.

Kaidashley Willenko = always alive.
Ashdan Aleniams = always virmired.

These are constants.

Elite Midget wrote...

Feel free to mention if I missed any of the Squaddies or if you want me to include why the ME1 crew wont return either. Hell, VS has a slim to no chance of being a Squaddie again and I'm an Ashley Fan.

Beep boop Slim to no chance of being a squaddie again! First page, second post.

I can't speak for Elite Midget, but I don't see the Variables mentioned as the reason for the supposition that the VS has slim chances.

So the point stands: the people with the "Ah yes, Variables..." sig just demonstrate the lack of ability to comprehend their opponents' arguments.

Thats odd, because I have six save files from ME:1, five of them have Kaiden alive, and one of them has Ashley alive (Working on another four for Ash), however if Bioware only went by my data then Ashley only has a one in six chance of showing up in the game.  Obviously Bioware won't simply use my data, they will use everyone's data (save file) and it will balance out.  So there is a 50/50 chance that Kaiden is alive and a 50/50 chance that Ashley is alive.  That sounds like a 'Variable' to me.  Either way Bioware has to pay for two VA's and write scripts for two characters and work on models for two characters.

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Fact is they're both owned by Bioware and by proxy EA that has a history with these things. Or are you going to ignore the EA part again?

Yes we do. Bioware is releaseing a Bridgeing Comic, they have many times more variables that deny any Squaddie staying, all Squaddies can die(And we have VS/Wrex as PERFECT examples that Naysayers pretend doesn't exist), and furthermore each and ever Mass Effect game was stated by Bioware as being Standalone experiences.

This was just the first one I saw, but I remember EM saying that Wrex and the VS were proof of concept several times in the thread (though god knows half of those coulda been in one of the other squaddie threads). If you're not willing to make that intuitive leap, that's fine. But saying "VS/Wrex are Perfect examples" as part of a retort directed toward people contradicting his current thesis seems to indicate he thinks they are somehow related.

Maybe I'm just not seeing all the... rhetorical variables present here.

Well, Wrex kinda is a "perfect example". VS is not, and it's been openly stated by BioWare why they kept the VS and Liara off the ME2 squad.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 10 avril 2011 - 11:38 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

The military in ME1 is hardly the "modern" military as we know it today.

I'm pretty sure in the modern military cripples can't be pilots or anything for that matter.

Yeah, and that make the SR-1 Intendant's story only the more plausible.

But somehow I'm sure, commanders are supposed to command, instead of following instructions coming from their squads, even in the future military.

Dude, if you really, really want to get into the relevance of real life military truths in the ME series, try asking why the commanding officer of a naval vessel routinely goes on combat missions.

Or why Anderson, who I'm assuming by his N7 training was some sort of marine, is a captain of a vessel. Two different branches of the military by our standards yet there it is.

Things change in two hundred years. And yes, certain combat groups use shotguns. They didn't develop the automatic shotgun for civilians now did they?

[Zulu_DFA]

Dave666 wrote...

Thats odd, because I have six save files from ME:1, five of them have Kaiden alive, and one of them has Ashley alive (Working on another four for Ash), however if Bioware only went by my data then Ashley only has a one in six chance of showing up in the game.  Obviously Bioware won't simply use my data, they will use everyone's data (save file) and it will balance out.  So there is a 50/50 chance that Kaiden is alive and a 50/50 chance that Ashley is alive.  That sounds like a 'Variable' to me.  Either way Bioware has to pay for two VA's and write scripts for two characters and work on models for two characters.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Alternately, if you're going to argue that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Kaidan and Ashley, then it seems logical to assume that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Thane Krios vs. his replacement,  Thune Krakoia. Or Grunt's replacement if he's dead, Guont. Or everybody's favorite replacement for any dead squad member: Whole Team is Jacob. There, by following your assumption that all living characters share the same dialogue, I've eliminated ALL the variables.

The premise for Ashley and Kaidan to share 90% the same character is pinpointed by their collective dub: The Virmire Survivor. Sure they have different background (although not that different by the ME standards: both are Humans and carreer Alliance military). But it never needs to be addressed agains in the game much, as the Virmire mission (and especially the part where they were saved at the expense of the other's life) is supposed to have the most deep and relevant impact on their now shared character. This has been only reinforced by ME2 where they assume the same role. Therefore the Virmire survivor is pretty much a constant.

And replacements won't work on the ME2 squad, because the Variabes are not only about death. For example, Thane may make it through the "suicide mission" all right, but be totally f*cked up due to the failure of finding his son. Same with Tali. Samara can be at peace with her past, or may still have that vow it kill Morinth unaccomplished, or she can be Morinth. Zaeed may still have a Vido to kill. Garrus may be paragonized (again) or renegadized (again), which, given his comeback, will probably be disregared (again), and it would suck, but fortunately I will not bear witness to it, since I've decided I don't need another round of calibrations, no matter what, and unchecked his loyalty flag during the fight with the Super Baby Terminator.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 10 avril 2011 - 11:26 .

[Zulu_DFA]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

The military in ME1 is hardly the "modern" military as we know it today.

I'm pretty sure in the modern military cripples can't be pilots or anything for that matter.

Yeah, and that make the SR-1 Intendant's story only the more plausible.

But somehow I'm sure, commanders are supposed to command, instead of following instructions coming from their squads, even in the future military.

Dude, if you really, really want to get into the relevance of real life military truths in the ME series, try asking why the commanding officer of a naval vessel routinely goes on combat missions.

Or why Anderson, who I'm assuming by his N7 training was some sort of marine, is a captain of a vessel. Two different branches of the military by our standards yet there it is.

Things change in two hundred years. And yes, certain combat groups use shotguns. They didn't develop the automatic shotgun for civilians now did they?

And that justifies Shepard being commanded all the way how?

[GuardianAngel470]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Again you take my old post out of context. I believed t hat mindset wrong because it was flawed, biased, and overly favored other killables over others. I had faith that Bioware would do the 'right' thing and treat all Killables equally.

Instead Bioware will give special treatment to theoir 'favorites' and if your favorite Squaddie happened to be anyone else you're screwed because Bioware will only offer you a meager cameo whie the favorites get special treatment.

Even liara being a Squaddie again is simply stupid and it seems Bioware is a-okay with screwing the fanbase every which way. We ME1 Fans got it in ME2 and now ME2 fans are getting majorly screwed if they didn't go for Tali/Garrus or imported with Liara/VS.

Kinda funny how Bioware gave the ME2 Killables an equal death chance yet in going into ME2 none of them are equal and Garrus is apparantly more equal than the whole ME2 cast outside Tali.

Though I do applaude you/.

It seems you've finally learned to read what I posted. Even if by reading all you've done is twisted it to try and paint a better picture of yourself. Still, I'm imprssed that that you've learned so much in such a short amount of time!

What if it turns out after all this that Bioware just put all the squaddies on a dart board and hurled some darts? Would that appease you? That way everyone got the same exact chance, and there was no bias at all! 

It could be what happened! Maybe the dice just love Garrus.

No, because I'm sure Bioware devs suck at darts.

[GuardianAngel470]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

The military in ME1 is hardly the "modern" military as we know it today.

I'm pretty sure in the modern military cripples can't be pilots or anything for that matter.

Yeah, and that make the SR-1 Intendant's story only the more plausible.

But somehow I'm sure, commanders are supposed to command, instead of following instructions coming from their squads, even in the future military.

Dude, if you really, really want to get into the relevance of real life military truths in the ME series, try asking why the commanding officer of a naval vessel routinely goes on combat missions.

Or why Anderson, who I'm assuming by his N7 training was some sort of marine, is a captain of a vessel. Two different branches of the military by our standards yet there it is.

Things change in two hundred years. And yes, certain combat groups use shotguns. They didn't develop the automatic shotgun for civilians now did they?

And that justifies Shepard being commanded all the way how?

It doesn't, it simply pokes a few holes in your belief that ME is in any way realistic in regards to current day militaries.

Just look at the rank list in the codex. It's all of 20 ranks long. Either the endless bureaucracy of all current day militaries has suddenly been replaced by an inextricable meteor of common sense thus invalidating any comparisons or Chuck Noris just Roundhouse'd my brain into a coma and I'm dreaming.

[Zulu_DFA]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

It doesn't, it simply pokes a few holes in your belief that ME is in any way realistic in regards to current day militaries.

Just look at the rank list in the codex. It's all of 20 ranks long. Either the endless bureaucracy of all current day militaries has suddenly been replaced by an inextricable meteor of common sense thus invalidating any comparisons or Chuck Noris just Roundhouse'd my brain into a coma and I'm dreaming.

This is too far away from the relevance to this thread, so after restating that the shooterization-imposed plot mechanics do harm, I'm not continuing this tangent of the discussion.