1053 réponses à ce sujet

[GuardianAngel470]

michaelrsa wrote...

Question here. I'm hearing all this talk about variable but what kind of equation are we using here?

Midget, is your system for determining who stays a system of linear equations? Or perhaps something a bit more complicated, like a system of first and second order differential equations?

I think I know what you screwed up on as well. You probably had a faulty initial value. Those will **** you up when solving differential equations.

This was hilarious. I just thought I'd say that.

Good job.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Fact is they're both owned by Bioware and by proxy EA that has a history with these things. Or are you going to ignore the EA part again?

Yes we do. Bioware is releaseing a Bridgeing Comic, they have many times more variables that deny any Squaddie staying, all Squaddies can die(And we have VS/Wrex as PERFECT examples that Naysayers pretend doesn't exist), and furthermore each and ever Mass Effect game was stated by Bioware as being Standalone experiences.

This was just the first one I saw, but I remember EM saying that Wrex and the VS were proof of concept several times in the thread (though god knows half of those coulda been in one of the other squaddie threads). If you're not willing to make that intuitive leap, that's fine. But saying "VS/Wrex are Perfect examples" as part of a retort directed toward people contradicting his current thesis seems to indicate he thinks they are somehow related.

Maybe I'm just not seeing all the... rhetorical variables present here.

Well, Wrex kinda is a "perfect example". VS is not, and it's been openly stated by BioWare why they kept the VS and Liara fo ME2 off the ME2 squad.

I gots a monster post on the burner, but it's late and the grammar is failing me. Expect it tomorrow, or if sleep will not grant me its perfect oblivion.

Your premise is that there are no variables inherent in the VS or Liara. Or that they're different variables, or whatever. But the point is that some people, including the original dude who created this thread, do think that they have variables associated with 'em. He mentioned Wrex in the same breath as the VS, even if you disagree with him that they're in the same category. And nobody here is arguing that we'll definitely get all the squaddies back. They think it'll be a mix, with some getting Wrex'd and others getting Kaidan'd. 

Thus, in creating a direct rebuttal to the premise of this thread, it's all right to use other stuff he implied, even if everyone who feels similarly to him doesn't agree that those examples count. He brought 'em up, they're fair game. Just ignore the banners if you don't like 'em. Mine is better anyway.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 avril 2011 - 11:40 .

[GuardianAngel470]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

I love how this is all over a game.

T'is good fun.

T'really is.

To be honest, I really don't have anything better to do.  Saturday night, and it's raining.

Then we will play in the shade.... Rain.

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Fact is they're both owned by Bioware and by proxy EA that has a history with these things. Or are you going to ignore the EA part again?

Yes we do. Bioware is releaseing a Bridgeing Comic, they have many times more variables that deny any Squaddie staying, all Squaddies can die(And we have VS/Wrex as PERFECT examples that Naysayers pretend doesn't exist), and furthermore each and ever Mass Effect game was stated by Bioware as being Standalone experiences.

This was just the first one I saw, but I remember EM saying that Wrex and the VS were proof of concept several times in the thread (though god knows half of those coulda been in one of the other squaddie threads). If you're not willing to make that intuitive leap, that's fine. But saying "VS/Wrex are Perfect examples" as part of a retort directed toward people contradicting his current thesis seems to indicate he thinks they are somehow related.

Maybe I'm just not seeing all the... rhetorical variables present here.

Well, Wrex kinda is a "perfect example". VS is not, and it's been openly stated by BioWare why they kept the VS and Liara off the ME2 squad.

I gots a monster post on the burner, but it's late and the grammar is failing me. Expect it tomorrow, or if sleep will not grant me its perfect oblivion.

Your premise is that there are no variables inherent in the VS or Liara. Or that they're different variables, or whatever. But the point is that some people, including the original dude who created this thread, do think that they have variables associated with 'em. He mentioned Wrex in the same breath as the VS, even if you disagree with him that they're in the same category. And nobody here is arguing that we'll definitely get all the squaddies back. They think it'll be a mix, with some getting Wrex'd and others getting Kaidan'd. 

Thus, in creating a direct rebuttal to the premise of this thread, it's all right to use other stuff he implied, even if everyone who feels similarly to him doesn't agree that those examples count. He brought 'em up, they're fair game. Just ignore the banners if you don't like 'em. Mine is better anyway.

Elite Midget wrote...

Yes they were. Though you're ignoreing the fact that every save MUST have a VS in it.

Not every savbe must have Garrus at the end of ME2. Thus they're both facts but they don't compare due to deviations that you tend to forget.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 10 avril 2011 - 11:50 .

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Try to discuss that in "Kaidan&Ashley DLC wishlist" thread.

And the real variables require the same characters to have different dialogue, so yeah...

Huh. There are 4 variables, 2 about survival, and 2 about them being LIs. Oh, also one for Ashley shooting Wrex perhaps.

What Elite Midget likes to call as variables are actually true/false flags.

Kaiden.Alive.Flag=true/false
Ashley.Alive.Flag=true/false
Kaiden.LI.Flag=true/false
Ashley.Alive.Flag=true/false

If Kaiden.Alive.Flag=false
then
Dialogue concerning having to let Kaiden die might appear.

If Kaiden.Alive.Flag=true
then
All squaddie related material is activated.

If Ashley.Alive.Flag=false
then
Dialogue concerning having to let Ashley die might appear.

If Ashley.Alive.Flag=true
then
All squaddie related material is activated.

If Kaiden.LI.Flag=true
then
Romance starts at more advanced stage

If Kaiden.LI.Flag=false
then
Nothinng happens

If Ashley.LI.Flag=true
then
Romance starts at more advanced stage

If Ashley.LI.Flag=false
then
Nothing happens

Similarly

If Liara.LI.Flag=true
then
Romance bla bla bla

If Liara.Li.Flag=false
then
Nothing happens

If Liara.Help_Defeat_SB.Flag=true
then
In-game reference

If Liara.Help_Defeat_SB.Flag=false
then
In-game reference

and

If Garrus.Alive.Flag=false
then
Dialogue about Garrus dying available

If Garrus.Alive.Flag=true
then
All squaddie related material is activated.

If Garrus.LI.Flag=true
then
Romance starts at more advanced stage

If Garrus.LI.Flag=false
then
Nothinng happens

If Garrus.Sidonis_Alive.Flag=true
then
Possible Sidonis NPC

If Garrus.Sidonis_Alive.Flag=false
then
Possible in-game reference

omg variables

[Dave666]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Thats odd, because I have six save files from ME:1, five of them have Kaiden alive, and one of them has Ashley alive (Working on another four for Ash), however if Bioware only went by my data then Ashley only has a one in six chance of showing up in the game.  Obviously Bioware won't simply use my data, they will use everyone's data (save file) and it will balance out.  So there is a 50/50 chance that Kaiden is alive and a 50/50 chance that Ashley is alive.  That sounds like a 'Variable' to me.  Either way Bioware has to pay for two VA's and write scripts for two characters and work on models for two characters.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Alternately, if you're going to argue that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Kaidan and Ashley, then it seems logical to assume that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Thane Krios vs. his replacement,  Thune Krakoia. Or Grunt's replacement if he's dead, Guont. Or everybody's favorite replacement for any dead squad member: Whole Team is Jacob. There, by following your assumption that all living characters share the same dialogue, I've eliminated ALL the variables.

The premise for Ashley and Kaidan to share 90% the same character is pinpointed by their collective dub: The Virmire Survivor. Sure they have different background (although not that different by the ME standards: both are Humans and carreer Alliance military). But it never needs to be addressed agains in the game much, as the Virmire mission (and especially the part where they were saved at the expense of the other's life) is supposed to have the most deep and relevant impact on their now shared character. This has been only reinforced by ME2 where they assume the same role. Therefore the Virmire survivor is pretty much a constant.

And replacements won't work on the ME2 squad, because the Variabes are not only about death. For example, Thane may make it through the "suicide mission" all right, but be totally f*cked up due to the failure of finding his son. Same with Tali. Samara can be at peace with her past, or may still have that vow it kill Morinth unaccomplished, or she can be Morinth. Zaeed may still have a Vido to kill. Garrus may be paragonized (again) or renegadized (again), which, given his comeback, will probably be disregared (again), and it would suck, but fortunately I will not bear witness to it, since I've decided I don't need another round of calibrations, no matter what, and unchecked his loyalty flag during the fight with the Super Baby Terminator.

This makes no sense.  Are you saying that because the VS shared a script in ME:2 where they had all of about two minutes screentime that they will share a script in ME:3 where they will be a plot integral permanent Squad member?

So are we going to talk to Ash about her time at BaaT and how she killed Vyrrnus with Biotics or are we going to talk to Kaiden about what happened to his Grandfather on Shanxi?

[Phaedon]

They don't even get that every save has Garrus in it, even if you don't realize it.

If Garrus.Alive.Flag=false
then
Dialogue about Garrus dying available

If Garrus.Alive.Flag=true
then
All squaddie related material is activated.

If Garrus.LI.Flag=true
then
Romance starts at more advanced stage

If Garrus.LI.Flag=false
then
Nothinng happens

If Garrus.Sidonis_Alive.Flag=true
then
Possible Sidonis NPC

If Garrus.Sidonis_Alive.Flag=false
then
Possible in-game reference

These flags are going to be imported, regardless if Garrus dies or not.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Fact is they're both owned by Bioware and by proxy EA that has a history with these things. Or are you going to ignore the EA part again?

Yes we do. Bioware is releaseing a Bridgeing Comic, they have many times more variables that deny any Squaddie staying, all Squaddies can die(And we have VS/Wrex as PERFECT examples that Naysayers pretend doesn't exist), and furthermore each and ever Mass Effect game was stated by Bioware as being Standalone experiences.

This was just the first one I saw, but I remember EM saying that Wrex and the VS were proof of concept several times in the thread (though god knows half of those coulda been in one of the other squaddie threads). If you're not willing to make that intuitive leap, that's fine. But saying "VS/Wrex are Perfect examples" as part of a retort directed toward people contradicting his current thesis seems to indicate he thinks they are somehow related.

Maybe I'm just not seeing all the... rhetorical variables present here.

Well, Wrex kinda is a "perfect example". VS is not, and it's been openly stated by BioWare why they kept the VS and Liara off the ME2 squad.

I gots a monster post on the burner, but it's late and the grammar is failing me. Expect it tomorrow, or if sleep will not grant me its perfect oblivion.

Your premise is that there are no variables inherent in the VS or Liara. Or that they're different variables, or whatever. But the point is that some people, including the original dude who created this thread, do think that they have variables associated with 'em. He mentioned Wrex in the same breath as the VS, even if you disagree with him that they're in the same category. And nobody here is arguing that we'll definitely get all the squaddies back. They think it'll be a mix, with some getting Wrex'd and others getting Kaidan'd. 

Thus, in creating a direct rebuttal to the premise of this thread, it's all right to use other stuff he implied, even if everyone who feels similarly to him doesn't agree that those examples count. He brought 'em up, they're fair game. Just ignore the banners if you don't like 'em. Mine is better anyway.

Elite Midget wrote...

Yes they were. Though you're ignoreing the fact that every save MUST have a VS in it.

Not every savbe must have Garrus at the end of ME2. Thus they're both facts but they don't compare due to deviations that you tend to forget.

EM contradicting himself? GASP.

No no, he changed his tune about whether or not the VS counted over and over. If he ever even hinted at it, it's fair use for a rebuttal, a lesson to keep your rhetoric clean, and not make implications you don't want to stand by 100% later.

If he didn't want us to consider the VS, he should never have used them in an analogy.

[Phaedon]

I don't quite understand what the argument is...anymore?

The variables are too complex to bring back VS and Liara?
How is that even possible. They are in-game.

The variables are too complex to bring back Garrus for more than 1 mission.
Um, no they aren't. They are slightly more complex than the VS ones.

The variables are too complex to bring back any other squaddies other than Garrus?
We know that some squaddies will appear in ME3, but we don't know if they'll be squaddies or NPCs yet. So, that argument is rather dead, considering that Garrus is a rather complex character variable-wise, in comparison to the rest of the ME2 crew?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Elite Midget wrote...

Not a leap since I'm no fool and I'm not stupid. You know what you implied but when I put it out for all to see, as you demanded, all you do is deny and deny. Why must you refuse to even stand before what you endorse and simply hide amoungst the shadows and try to make everyone believe otherwise?.

They aren't valid when you look at all the variables. It isn't plausible and you continue to speak as a fan clinging to straws for the impossible. What you've failed to do in each of your arguements that you refuse to place yourself in Bioware's shoes and instead continue to delude yourself to an unreachable dream. Maybe you should stop thinking about what you want and start thinking more on line on what Bioware wants and what Bioware can accomplish in the most efficient manner possible.

VS has a slim returning chance because of the responsibilities they now have. Simply put Shepard isn't officially in the Alliance anymore and not all Shepards will abandon Cerberus. Thus it means that VS has little of no chance of entrance due to that fact. This is from someone what was hugely miffed about VS getting the shaft in ME2 since I romanced Ashley. In no way did ME1 ever hint on how ME2 would begin or that I would have no option to contact VS even after the loophole they were given.

Squaddies evolve and it's all but outright said that Liara wouldn't return either. She's the SB now and can do more good there than as Shepard's guns. I've met many Liara fans that have learned to deal with this fact that they may never get Liara again as a Squaddie. Simply put they understand that Bioware has taken the character far beyond just being one of Shepard's random and irrelevant guns. With what they've done with Liara is what should be done to handle the dead since it's the most respectful path to take for the characters.

Bioware had options, yes. Than they threw a lot of them out after chooseing on the Variables to add in and the fact that they can all die. This is a clear sign that Bioware had no plans on ever bringing them back for ME3 since nothing major would be needed to be changed to prevent their deaths. Instead Bioware evidently has much larger plans for said characters beyond being Shepard's Guns and I approve of it.

Morpheus, why must you torment me so? Why will you not offer up your sweet kiss?

Ok, so here is is: the post where EM mentions the VS and Liara, in relation to his central premise: that decisions the main character made and the side character's implied responsibilities limit recruitment.

So you can see where they got the idea. For the thing. And the Stuff.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Phaedon wrote...

I don't quite understand what the argument is...anymore?

The variables are too complex to bring back VS and Liara?
How is that even possible. They are in-game.

The variables are too complex to bring back Garrus for more than 1 mission.
Um, no they aren't. They are slightly more complex than the VS ones.

The variables are too complex to bring back any other squaddies other than Garrus?
We know that some squaddies will appear in ME3, but we don't know if they'll be squaddies or NPCs yet. So, that argument is rather dead, considering that Garrus is a rather complex character variable-wise, in comparison to the rest of the ME2 crew?

Phaedon, Zulu is arging that Liara and the VS aren't part of the "variables" discussion, and so shouldn't be in that cute little sig you're sportin'. The rest of us say they do, indeed, have some mighty fine variables, and they're coming back, so that gives us a chance to live in hope of seeing an extra squaddie or two, peeking 'round the corner soon enough.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 avril 2011 - 12:06 .

[Phaedon]

You know what you implied but when I put it out for all to see, as you demanded, all you do is deny and deny.

[Zulu_DFA]

Dave666 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Thats odd, because I have six save files from ME:1, five of them have Kaiden alive, and one of them has Ashley alive (Working on another four for Ash), however if Bioware only went by my data then Ashley only has a one in six chance of showing up in the game.  Obviously Bioware won't simply use my data, they will use everyone's data (save file) and it will balance out.  So there is a 50/50 chance that Kaiden is alive and a 50/50 chance that Ashley is alive.  That sounds like a 'Variable' to me.  Either way Bioware has to pay for two VA's and write scripts for two characters and work on models for two characters.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Alternately, if you're going to argue that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Kaidan and Ashley, then it seems logical to assume that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Thane Krios vs. his replacement,  Thune Krakoia. Or Grunt's replacement if he's dead, Guont. Or everybody's favorite replacement for any dead squad member: Whole Team is Jacob. There, by following your assumption that all living characters share the same dialogue, I've eliminated ALL the variables.

The premise for Ashley and Kaidan to share 90% the same character is pinpointed by their collective dub: The Virmire Survivor. Sure they have different background (although not that different by the ME standards: both are Humans and carreer Alliance military). But it never needs to be addressed agains in the game much, as the Virmire mission (and especially the part where they were saved at the expense of the other's life) is supposed to have the most deep and relevant impact on their now shared character. This has been only reinforced by ME2 where they assume the same role. Therefore the Virmire survivor is pretty much a constant.

And replacements won't work on the ME2 squad, because the Variabes are not only about death. For example, Thane may make it through the "suicide mission" all right, but be totally f*cked up due to the failure of finding his son. Same with Tali. Samara can be at peace with her past, or may still have that vow it kill Morinth unaccomplished, or she can be Morinth. Zaeed may still have a Vido to kill. Garrus may be paragonized (again) or renegadized (again), which, given his comeback, will probably be disregared (again), and it would suck, but fortunately I will not bear witness to it, since I've decided I don't need another round of calibrations, no matter what, and unchecked his loyalty flag during the fight with the Super Baby Terminator.

This makes no sense.  Are you saying that because the VS shared a script in ME:2 where they had all of about two minutes screentime that they will share a script in ME:3 where they will be a plot integral permanent Squad member?

I am sure of it. The only significant difference there will be in the romance dialgue.

Dave666 wrote...

So are we going to talk to Ash about her time at BaaT and how she killed Vyrrnus with Biotics or are we going to talk to Kaiden about what happened to his Grandfather on Shanxi?

Who says the BAat and and Granpa on Shanxi subjects need to be raised at all? BioWare? I doubt it.

[Phaedon]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Phaeton, Zulu is arging that Liara and the VS aren't part of the "variables" discussion, and so shouldn't be in that cute little sig you're sportin'. The rest of us say they do, indeed, have some mighty fine variables, and they're coming back, so that gives us a chance to live in hope of seeing an extra squaddie or two, peeking 'round the corner soon enough. 

Yep. They are as much part of the variables discussion, as the rest of the crew is:

If Kaiden.Alive.Flag=false
then
Dialogue concerning having to let Kaiden die might appear.

If Kaiden.Alive.Flag=true
then
All squaddie related material is activated.

If Ashley.Alive.Flag=false
then
Dialogue concerning having to let Ashley die might appear.

If Ashley.Alive.Flag=true
then
All squaddie related material is activated.

If Kaiden.LI.Flag=true
then
Romance starts at more advanced stage

If Kaiden.LI.Flag=false
then
Nothinng happens

If Ashley.LI.Flag=true
then
Romance starts at more advanced stage

If Ashley.LI.Flag=false
then
Nothing happens

Similarly

If Liara.LI.Flag=true
then
Romance bla bla bla

If Liara.Li.Flag=false
then
Nothing happens

If Liara.Help_Defeat_SB.Flag=true
then
In-game reference

If Liara.Help_Defeat_SB.Flag=false
then
In-game reference

[Dave666]

Phaedon wrote...

You know what you implied but when I put it out for all to see, as you demanded, all you do is deny and deny.

Ok, I snickered. 

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

EM contradicting himself? GASP.

No no, he changed his tune about whether or not the VS counted over and over. If he ever even hinted at it, it's fair use for a rebuttal, a lesson to keep your rhetoric clean, and not make implications you don't want to stand by 100% later.

If he didn't want us to consider the VS, he should never have used them in an analogy.

Look Midget, what have you done! Look at the mess we're in because of you!!! You didn't keep you rhetoric clean and now there are people with stupid sigs all over the forum, just to spite you!
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

[Phaedon]

Oh, EM isn't the only person we are spiting. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 10 avril 2011 - 12:18 .

[Dave666]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Thats odd, because I have six save files from ME:1, five of them have Kaiden alive, and one of them has Ashley alive (Working on another four for Ash), however if Bioware only went by my data then Ashley only has a one in six chance of showing up in the game.  Obviously Bioware won't simply use my data, they will use everyone's data (save file) and it will balance out.  So there is a 50/50 chance that Kaiden is alive and a 50/50 chance that Ashley is alive.  That sounds like a 'Variable' to me.  Either way Bioware has to pay for two VA's and write scripts for two characters and work on models for two characters.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Alternately, if you're going to argue that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Kaidan and Ashley, then it seems logical to assume that there doesn't need to be different dialogue for Thane Krios vs. his replacement,  Thune Krakoia. Or Grunt's replacement if he's dead, Guont. Or everybody's favorite replacement for any dead squad member: Whole Team is Jacob. There, by following your assumption that all living characters share the same dialogue, I've eliminated ALL the variables.

The premise for Ashley and Kaidan to share 90% the same character is pinpointed by their collective dub: The Virmire Survivor. Sure they have different background (although not that different by the ME standards: both are Humans and carreer Alliance military). But it never needs to be addressed agains in the game much, as the Virmire mission (and especially the part where they were saved at the expense of the other's life) is supposed to have the most deep and relevant impact on their now shared character. This has been only reinforced by ME2 where they assume the same role. Therefore the Virmire survivor is pretty much a constant.

And replacements won't work on the ME2 squad, because the Variabes are not only about death. For example, Thane may make it through the "suicide mission" all right, but be totally f*cked up due to the failure of finding his son. Same with Tali. Samara can be at peace with her past, or may still have that vow it kill Morinth unaccomplished, or she can be Morinth. Zaeed may still have a Vido to kill. Garrus may be paragonized (again) or renegadized (again), which, given his comeback, will probably be disregared (again), and it would suck, but fortunately I will not bear witness to it, since I've decided I don't need another round of calibrations, no matter what, and unchecked his loyalty flag during the fight with the Super Baby Terminator.

This makes no sense.  Are you saying that because the VS shared a script in ME:2 where they had all of about two minutes screentime that they will share a script in ME:3 where they will be a plot integral permanent Squad member?

I am sure of it. The only significant difference there will be in the romance dialgue.

Dave666 wrote...

So are we going to talk to Ash about her time at BaaT and how she killed Vyrrnus with Biotics or are we going to talk to Kaiden about what happened to his Grandfather on Shanxi?

Who says the BAat and and Granpa on Shanxi subjects need to be raised at all? BioWare? I doubt it.

Kaiden: Hello, I'm Kaiden, we've never met before and I don't have a history.  I just popped into existence a moment ago, please don't be curious about my past.  I'll just show new players how awesome it is to have no past and they'll think thats great, and old players who remember me, well, they remembered it wrong.  I never existed before now.

Ashley: Hello, I'm Ashley, we've never met before and I don't have a history.  I just popped into existence a moment ago, please don't be curious about my past.  I'll just show new players how awesome it is to have no past and they'll think thats great, and old players who remember me, well, they remembered it wrong.  I never existed before now.

[lovgreno]

Oh Phaedon, I could read your lists of variables all days. The variables that some said would make squadmates like Garrus and Ashley impossible in our squad in ME3. Funny though, now that we do know that they are along for the ME3 ride those terrible variables are no longer variables according to some...

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

The variables are too complex to bring back Garrus for more than 1 mission.
Um, no they aren't. They are slightly more complex than the VS ones.

Variable "Death"

Liara = n/a
Kaidan = 1 => Ashley = 0.
Ashley = 1 => Kaidan = 0.
Garrus = 1 => ???

In other words, BioWare has to sweat with brain a lot harder on Garrus, than any other of the announced "returning squaddies"

Other variables simply don't apply to ether VS or Liara, and need either to be disregarded in terms of character development or take too much time and work to be brought back properly. If they are disregarded, it's extremely bad writing, amounting to plot holes. For instance, Tali was acting like a moron for the whole ME2, because she never acknowledged that I had been objected to taking with me on the Normandy and denied her that Geth data in ME1. There wasn't even a single reference to those "choices".

Sure, BioWare is stupid enough (commercial considerations aside) to engage in such crappy fanservice as the Talimance at the expense of plot coherence, but it can go only so far on that avenue, as long as they want to keep each game standalone.

[Zulu_DFA]

Dave666 wrote...

Kaiden: Hello, I'm Kaiden, we've never met before and I don't have a history.  I just popped into existence a moment ago, please don't be curious about my past.  I'll just show new players how awesome it is to have no past and they'll think thats great, and old players who remember me, well, they remembered it wrong.  I never existed before now.

Ashley: Hello, I'm Ashley, we've never met before and I don't have a history.  I just popped into existence a moment ago, please don't be curious about my past.  I'll just show new players how awesome it is to have no past and they'll think thats great, and old players who remember me, well, they remembered it wrong.  I never existed before now.

Tali: Hello, I'm Tali, you already magically know that I was on your ship a couple of years back, let's go get Veetor.

Garrus: Hello, I'm Garrus, I hate bureacratic crap, just like old times, let's kill Sidonis so I can get back to the calibrations.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

The variables are too complex to bring back Garrus for more than 1 mission.
Um, no they aren't. They are slightly more complex than the VS ones.

Variable "Death"

Liara = n/a
Kaidan = 1 => Ashley = 0.
Ashley = 1 => Kaidan = 0.
Garrus = 1 => ???

In other words, BioWare has to sweat with brain a lot harder on Garrus, than any other of the announced "returning squaddies"

No, that would be stupid, Kaidan and Ashley need their own material.

You don't care if it would have been stupid?

Well, check the ME2 Save Editor, you are wrong. There isn't a Kaidan/Ashley flag, there is a different flag for Kaidan and Ashley. You just crash the game if both are alive or dead. So yeah.

Other variables simply don't apply to ether VS or Liara, and need either to be disregarded in terms of character development or take too much time and work to be brought back properly. If they are disregarded, it's extremely bad writing, amounting to plot holes. For instance, Tali was acting like a moron for the whole ME2, because she never acknowledged that I had been objected to taking with me on the Normandy and denied her that Geth data in ME1. There wasn't even a single reference to those "choices".

They don't apply? What is that supposed to mean?
The only variables connected to the VS and are necessary have been already stated.

Sure, BioWare is stupid enough (commercial considerations aside) to engage in such crappy fanservice as the Talimance at the expense of plot coherence, but it can go only so far on that avenue, as long as they want to keep each game standalone.

Except that the Tali 'flag' that you are referring to did have an impact in the game, when you first met her. What else did you expect? For her to bring it up every time you talked? Yes, Bioware could have done that, but why?

Modifié par Phaedon, 10 avril 2011 - 12:44 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

Oh, EM isn't the only person we are spiting. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

And I repeat, you guys are making idiots of yourself, because the people you think you spite aren't spited one tenth of how much they would have been spited, had your sig featured only the relevant characters, namely, Garrus alone.