1053 réponses à ce sujet

[sponge56]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

My friend hated me1 and refused to continue with the series. we convinced him to play me2 because we thought hed enjoy it more.  He did, its now one of his favourite games, and he loves the plot and the characters.  He never touched or saw any reviews, we just recommended it for him. so, is he wrong then zulu? or did EA brainwash him

And how is this supposed to prove anything? People who disliked a ME2 are long gone from here, save for a few die hards like myself, so naturally there aren't that many counter-examples.

1) why stay and argue if you dont like the game, I dont like cricket but I dont go up to people that do and tell them that theyve been brainwashed
2) you have got the wrong idea, you cant 'prove' that somethings bad, you can have an opinion. however please dissist from telling everyone that if you like this game then you have been brainwashed, kinda makes you look and sound like a dick

Modifié par sponge56, 10 avril 2011 - 07:59 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And how is this supposed to prove anything? People who disliked a ME2 are long gone from here, save for a few die hards like myself, so naturally there aren't that many counter-examples.

Sir, think about this. ME1 featured a way-too-convoluted inventory system with too many versions of every item that scrolled up the screen far too slowly, six bajillion moonbuggy worlds with three-room prefabs that you've gunned your way through more times than you can stand, and almost every soldier in the game constantly taunts you with the same annoying stock battle cries at a rate of roughly one repetition a second. Additionally, enemies tend to run around like idiots in precisely the manner that doesn't work in real life but wreaks absolute havoc against videogame shooter controls.

Can you really not understand why these flaws would put a lot of people off? Half of that "complicated" stuff that they "threw out" happened to have been executed with the grace of a drunken elchor dancing the Robot.

[Akizora]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And how is this supposed to prove anything? People who disliked a ME2 are long gone from here, save for a few die hards like myself, so naturally there aren't that many counter-examples.

Can you really not understand why these flaws would put a lot of people off? Half of that "complicated" stuff that they "threw out" happened to have been executed with the grace of a drunken elchor dancing the Robot.

An Elcors dance would be so subtle all you would see are a few muscles twitching "Excited, do the robot."

[CulturalGeekGirl]

mrsph wrote...

sponge56 wrote...
1) why stay and argue if you dont like the game, I dont like cricket but I dont go up to people that do and tell them that theyve been brainwashed

This is the internet.

Liking something I don't like is grounds for execution.

Also, I refeshed this page during a five minute break I was taking. This indicates illness.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 avril 2011 - 08:15 .

[sponge56]

[/quote]

This is the internet.

Liking something I don't like is grounds for execution.

[/quote]

true, but I still feel the need to attempt to inject some sense into people. In fututre I wont, doesn't seem to achieve much

[Almostfaceman]

sponge56 wrote...


true, but I still feel the need to attempt to inject some sense into people. In fututre I wont, doesn't seem to achieve much

To further complicate matters - this isn't always true.  I've actually had conversations before where we reach a consensus.  It's those golden moments of agreement that... tantalize.  

[johnbonhamatron]

@ sponge & almostfaceman

Take refuge in absurdity, in those arguments, it's what I do...

Although you're right, almostfaceman, it really is awesome when you talk to someone with a completely opposite viewpoint, and you both end up reaching common understanding!

EDIT:
And to get myself vaguely back on topic, yes, there are maaaaaaaaaaany variables, and I can sort of see what Elite Midget means, if I put on my most utterly cynical hat. And if and when Bioware do take them all into account, and bring everyone back for a massive game, it's going to make it all the sweeter!

So yes, still excited. More excited than is healthy, if I'm honest...

Modifié par johnbonhamatron, 10 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[Dave666]

Almostfaceman wrote...

sponge56 wrote...


true, but I still feel the need to attempt to inject some sense into people. In fututre I wont, doesn't seem to achieve much

To further complicate matters - this isn't always true.  I've actually had conversations before where we reach a consensus.  It's those golden moments of agreement that... tantalize.  

I think most of our conversations end up like that don't they?

We may disagree on a few minor points but usually agree on the overall view.

[sponge56]

Almostfaceman wrote...

sponge56 wrote...


true, but I still feel the need to attempt to inject some sense into people. In fututre I wont, doesn't seem to achieve much

To further complicate matters - this isn't always true.  I've actually had conversations before where we reach a consensus.  It's those golden moments of agreement that... tantalize.  

Noooooooo do not tempt me sir! btw this thread has got very sidetracked, although I only commented to RAGE at zulu so maybe im partly to blame 

[Almostfaceman]

Dave666 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

sponge56 wrote...


true, but I still feel the need to attempt to inject some sense into people. In fututre I wont, doesn't seem to achieve much

To further complicate matters - this isn't always true.  I've actually had conversations before where we reach a consensus.  It's those golden moments of agreement that... tantalize.  

I think most of our conversations end up like that don't they?

We may disagree on a few minor points but usually agree on the overall view.

Yes you and I do tend to agree far more often than disagree.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And saying that more people like ME2 does not contradict my assertion that the game is dumbed down and appeals to a wider audience. That actually... supports it.

so hipster

They took an established title, threw everything more or less complex out of it, hired a number of star voice actors, bribed the biggest reviewers to it give 9.5+ scores, the smaller fish followed suit, the wider audience fell in love with the fashion show winners.

It all adds up.

It's a conspiracy man

Protip - EA can't bribe fans.

we are all part of the conspiracy listen to me

And naturally, when Zulu loses an argument he turns the discussion to how ME2 was dumbed down.

Let me remind you the course of the debate:
-Variables are too complex, no squadmates will return
-I make the "A common misconception about ME2 squaddies" thread
-Now the argument is, it's possible to have them return, but the characters would be too watered down...somehow.
-Then, 3 squadmates who have multiple variables associated to them return as confirmed squaddies and 4  more characters will return, even though we don't know if they will be NPCs or squaddies.
-The argument now is "The variables are too complex, everyone but Garrus won't return"
-After listing all of the 'complex' variables, the argument is 'Remember the geth data? Well, if you don't give it to Tali, she doesn't mention it, which makes the writing stupid!'
-After proving that Bioware could have, if they wanted have repercussions for that, and that this a minor decision, the argument is, 'The writing of ME3 will have to be dumbed down'
-And then, somehow Mass Effect 2 is a dumbed down.
-People bring up, 'Hey but critics/fans loved it'
-Response? Critics are bribed, fans like it because it's dumbed down.

Wanna bet on what the next step will be? The course of the debate itself, is all the evidence I need for whether any more squadmates will return.

Modifié par Phaedon, 10 avril 2011 - 08:41 .

[Almostfaceman]

Phaedon wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And saying that more people like ME2 does not contradict my assertion that the game is dumbed down and appeals to a wider audience. That actually... supports it.

so hipster

They took an established title, threw everything more or less complex out of it, hired a number of star voice actors, bribed the biggest reviewers to it give 9.5+ scores, the smaller fish followed suit, the wider audience fell in love with the fashion show winners.

It all adds up.

It's a conspiracy man

Protip - EA can't bribe fans.

we are all part of the conspiracy listen to me

And naturally, when Zulu loses an argument he turns the discussion to how ME2 was dumbed down.

Let me remind you the course of the debate:
-Variables are too complex, no squadmates will return
-I make the "A common misconception about ME2 squaddies" thread
-Now the argument is, it's possible to have them return, but the characters would be too watered down...somehow.
-Then, 3 squadmates who have multiple variables associated to them return as confirmed squaddies and 4  more characters will return, even though we don't know if they will be NPCs or squaddies.
-The argument now is "The variables are too complex, everyone but Garrus won't return"
-After listing all of the 'complex' variables, the argument is 'Remember the geth data? Well, if you don't give it to Tali, she doesn't mention it, which makes the writing stupid!'
-After proving that Bioware could have, if they wanted have repercussions for that, and that this a minor decision, the argument is, 'The writing of ME3 will have to be dumbed down'
-And then, somehow Mass Effect 2 is a dumbed down.
-People bring up, 'Hey but critics/fans loved it'
-Response? Critics are bribed, fans like it because it's dumbed down.

Wanna bet on what the next step will be? The course of the debate itself, is all the evidence I need for whether any more squadmates will return.

I personally think he does it just to see how long he can get away with it.

[Elite Midget]

Wizz wrote...

Suddenly Zulu is the only one who stays civil in this discussion.

Which I suppose is the reason Zulu didn't want to get involved in this mess in the first place. He's been very civil in all these pages yet the same ones that were uncivil with me have been uncivil with him with their pathetic and childish drivel. They simply don't understand common sense, fairness for all(All of these uncivil ones are fully in favor of special treatment for their favorites and screwing the rest of the fanbase), or actually reading what was said instead of singling out a part out of context to try and make themselves appear smarter than they are.

Of course after 1 page in I knew how this would end up as such.

I'm sorry you got dragged into this Zulu. Though I appluade you for not letting them drag you into the mud they're currently wallowing in.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 10 avril 2011 - 08:50 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Phaedon wrote...

Blah-blah-blah...

Mass Effect 2 was dumbed down from before its release. In part it manifested in the fact that the account of the plot flags that should have impacted the character development of certain ME2 squadmates was perfunctory. And I predict that the same thing is bound to happen to Garrus and any other ME2 expendable that BioWare is "bringing back", and it will show, if they remain on the squad for a significant period of time, they will act OOC, and it will suck. That's the meaning of the "variables".

[sponge56]

Elite Midget wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Suddenly Zulu is the only one who stays civil in this discussion.

Which I suppose is the reason Zulu didn't want to get involved in this mess in the first place. He's been very civil in all these pages yet the same ones that were uncivil with me have been uncivil with him with their pathetic and childish drivel. They simply don't understand common sense, fairness for all(All of these uncivil ones are fully in favor of special treatment for their favorites and screwing the rest of the fanbase), or actually reading what was said instead of singling out a part out of context to try and make themselves appear smarter than they are.

Of course after 1 page in I knew how this would end up as such.

I'm sorry you got dragged into this Zulu. Though I appluade you for not letting them drag you into the mud they're currently wallowing in.

people just get frustrated elite, your post is a confirmation of the fact that no one likes it when people get attacked   on the variables topic, the mass effect writing team have already stated that they spent long periods of time working variables in, and that there were many differing paths people could take.  Its mentioned in that arrival interview with the lead writer.  Dont you think that this is some proof that what you are claiming on the variables being to much might not be true?

[Elite Midget]

Don't bother posting in this thread anymore. I've requested a lock since it's no longer relevant and many users that have entered this thread have only posted for one reason and one reason alone. Which I'm sure others that share similiar views as me know what that reason is and why this topic must be locked.

If you wish to continue that conversation take it to PMs or make another Topic.

Thank you to those that remained Civil in all this and Shame on the Uncivil Ones.

[Zulu_DFA]

Elite Midget wrote...

I'm sorry you got dragged into this Zulu. Though I appluade you for not letting them drag you into the mud they're currently wallowing in.

Never mind. It's been fun to hold the fort, seeing how many clueless people believe they spite somebody with their clueless sig banner.

[sponge56]

right both zulu and elite seem to be beyond reason, this may have been one of the most entertaining/ridiculous threads I have ever read

[Dave666]

Elite Midget wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Suddenly Zulu is the only one who stays civil in this discussion.

Which I suppose is the reason Zulu didn't want to get involved in this mess in the first place. He's been very civil in all these pages yet the same ones that were uncivil with me have been uncivil with him with their pathetic and childish drivel. They simply don't understand common sense, fairness for all(All of these uncivil ones are fully in favor of special treatment for their favorites and screwing the rest of the fanbase), or actually reading what was said instead of singling out a part out of context to try and make themselves appear smarter than they are.

Of course after 1 page in I knew how this would end up as such.

I'm sorry you got dragged into this Zulu. Though I appluade you for not letting them drag you into the mud they're currently wallowing in.

Does anyone have a Hipocracy Motivational?

Elite?  Can you not see?  In the space of a single post you accuse others of incivility then claim that people are wallowing in mud?

I have even said before in a post in this very thread that there was a chance that Squaddies may not return, but felt that it was an extremely low one.  You dismissed it claiming your usual 'Variables', 'Standalone' and 'Timeskip'.  You have since been shown by Bioware itself that the reasons that you gave while valid reasons for excluding them do not mean that they are the ONLY course of action that Bioware could take.  I say again the ONLY thing stopping the Squaddies from returning is the writers themselves.

Modifié par Dave666, 10 avril 2011 - 09:03 .

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Blah-blah-blah...

Mass Effect 2 was dumbed down from before its release. In part it manifested in the fact that the account of the plot flags that should have impacted the character development of certain ME2 squadmates was perfunctory. And I predict that the same thing is bound to happen to Garrus and any other ME2 expendable that BioWare is "bringing back", and it will show, if they remain on the squad for a significant period of time, they will act OOC, and it will suck. That's the meaning of the "variables".

Worst comeback, EVER.

[Konfined]

Just started reading this thread, on a whim. Page 4 so far; very entertaining and interesting read.

Keep up the "good" work.








Just a little ME reference thrown in right there is all.

Modifié par Konfined, 10 avril 2011 - 09:05 .

[Elite Midget]

Not even goimng to bother Dave. I've debated with you and have been insulted by you constantly in the past. You'll get no special treatment from me since you placed yourself in that camp when you encouraged them instead of trying to maintain order in your ranks. Thus in the end you're just as bad as them.

mrsph wrote...

Remember when you would go into every single thread and attack and insult everyone's intelligence for not sharing your view, Midget?

Karma sucks.

Please, I don't attack intelligence I merely state facts in those threads. If Bioware was a fair company than none would be returning or getting special treatment.

Apparantly Bioware is an unfair company that unfairly rewards those that like their favorites while shafting those that liked someone else on their Team.

Really will enjoy watching when ME3 hits and we have topics about...

Jack
Thane
Miranda
Tali
Jacob
Samara
Morinth
Mordin
Wrex
Zaeed
Kasumi
Grunt

Being spamnmed by angry fans that're wondering why their favorite was shafted yet Garrus wasen't. If their favorites live they get a cameo. If Garrus lives you get a Squaddie. Funny how unfair that ends up being to the broader fanbase, no?

Modifié par Elite Midget, 10 avril 2011 - 09:07 .

[johnbonhamatron]

Elite Midget wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Suddenly Zulu is the only one who stays civil in this discussion.

Which I suppose is the reason Zulu didn't want to get involved in this mess in the first place. He's been very civil in all these pages yet the same ones that were uncivil with me have been uncivil with him with their pathetic and childish drivel. They simply don't understand common sense, fairness for all(All of these uncivil ones are fully in favor of special treatment for their favorites and screwing the rest of the fanbase), or actually reading what was said instead of singling out a part out of context to try and make themselves appear smarter than they are.

Of course after 1 page in I knew how this would end up as such.

I'm sorry you got dragged into this Zulu. Though I appluade you for not letting them drag you into the mud they're currently wallowing in.

Ok, well, I'll respond in a civil manner. As yet, we simply do not know for certain which squadmates will be returning, or in what capacity (for example, Garrus is back, if he survived, but in what capacity, 1 mission or full game, is unknown).

However, you are coming at it from the presupposition that because one has been confirmed to come back, which is therefore going to make it unfair to others, because they won't be. We simply don't know that yet.

Meanwhile, I am coming from my own presupposition, which is that if one can come back, all can come back. The budget for the game isn't infinite, but I would suggest that it's going to be rather big, as I would also suggest that Bioware know fans would be out for blood, if key squadmates were left out.

So, with no actual concrete evidence to go on, all we have are our presuppositions about what we think will happen. Which is fine; maybe you will be right, maybe I will be right, maybe both of us will be right and wrong, in equal parts.

However, it's disingenuous to state that something will definitely happen (such as anyone besides Garrus getting the shaft) when we have precisely zero evidence to reach a conclusion either way.

There you go, civil.