1053 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

CGG, welcome to the internet.

[LK Tien]

"Lock the thread so people will stop hurting my feelings!" is the vibe I'm getting.

[Bluko]

I dunno the impression I got from the leaked GI article is that squadmates from ME2 will only be playable during select missions, and a good chunk of them will simply have cameos. So I think it still stands to say that no the ME2 crew will not be returning permanently. I doubt Garrus will be a permanent squad-member, unless he's going to be like the one alternative character a.k.a. Samara/Morinth. Which makes me wonder who fills in for Garrus? I can see them maybe doing this with one other character as well, but after that it gets a tad bit insane to design the game with totally different potential squadmates. Especially since it is confirmed there will be new squadmates and that they aren't going to have them together with all of the ME2 crew.

But all the same I'm glad they're making them somewhat playable, so they don't seem totally forgotten.

Still I won't hold my breath thinking that Garrus could be in my squad the entire game. Cause I'm pretty sure that's not the case. It does seem Ashley/Kaidan and Liara will be returning as full-time squad members. Which is nice since fans of those characters kind of got the cold shoulder in ME2. At least Bioware's gving the original ME1 crew it's due respect, well except for Wrex it seems although understandable given that you can kill him. Though I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he'll be a temporary squadmate at some point too. Or at the very least play a very large role in ME3.

I think it still stands that characters who don't have "plot armor" can't rejoin Shepard, at least not for the entire game.

Still I wouldn't mind the chance to take Garrus and Wrex with me when in the final mission I tear out Harbinger's Mass Effect core. Mmm epic one liner to counter Harbinger...

"You're just a machine and a machine can be broken.  Release control of this!"

*Shoots Mass Effect core and Michael-Bay Explosion*





Later in an elevator on the way to Heaven/Hell...

Wrex:"So Garrus? Who'd win a fight? You or Shepard?"

Garrus:"Wrex please... we're already dead."

Wrex:"And that's why Shepard would win."

[AdmiralCheez]

You're entitled to your opinion, Bluko, and what you post is both humorous and makes sense, but this has been declared a buzzkill-free zone.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

CGG, welcome to the internet.

Thanks, glad to be here!

[Fairhammer]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You're entitled to your opinion, Bluko, and what you post is both humorous and makes sense, but this has been declared a buzzkill-free zone.

I'm somehow happy about the news about me3.
finaly elitemidget is prooven wrong and we all can be happy.


Vote this thread for Sticky

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Honestly Garrus is the Garrus of Garrus. While he might be a temporary squadmate, I don't see them announcing him like this and then relegating him to "mission or two" status. Then again, I believe they might do that with Liara still, so really, I don't know why I think this way. Probably just my... ugh... feelings. I could be wrong, and I will try to be realistic.

Still, if he's just around for one mission, a thousand fanboys more passionate than me will throw a FIT. I've seen more "as long as I have Garrus by my side" comments from straight dudes than I have for any single female LI.

[FeralEwok]

Arcian wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

 I've seen more "as long as I have Garrus by my side" comments from straight dudes than I have for any single female LI.

Do not underestimate the power of a bro4life.

Shepard=Garrus
Hawkeye=Trapper John
Han Solo=Chewbacca
Col. O'Neill=Dr. Jackson
Jules Winnfield=Vincent Vega
Abbot=Costello
Simon=Garfunkle
freakin sponge bob and patrick

just some of the legendary bromances that sprung to mind

[Eudaemonium]

Bluko wrote...

I dunno the impression I got from the leaked GI article is that squadmates from ME2 will only be playable during select missions, and a good chunk of them will simply have cameos. So I think it still stands to say that no the ME2 crew will not be returning permanently. I doubt Garrus will be a permanent squad-member, unless he's going to be like the one alternative character a.k.a. Samara/Morinth. Which makes me wonder who fills in for Garrus? I can see them maybe doing this with one other character as well, but after that it gets a tad bit insane to design the game with totally different potential squadmates.

The way I think it might be done is:

- 3-6 Permanent Squadies (both old and new) who can be brought on (almost) any mission: these will probably include VS and Sanders (unless he's a redshirt). Liara might actually be temp, but I'm uncertain, as might Garrus (more likely than Liara due to  variables but less due to plot constrictions). You'll probably also get a Krogan of indeterminate nature.
- A whole bunch of temporary squaddies on specific missions, for example (perhaps): Wrex/Grunt on Tuchanka, Mordin on Salarian homeworld, Tali and/or Legion on Quarian/Geth-related missions. I think it might also be possible for characters to die during the game based on your choices.
- An Endgame, where all or almost all of the (surviving) squaddies are available for your final squad.

Thus a fair few characters will be available in-game for, say 1-2 major story missions, and then return in the grand finale so you can go out with a bang. Know what, I'd laugh if the group shown in the Bad-End Arrival trailer was your standard End-Game party, which ironically includes TIM.

[Gentleman Moogle]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Bluko wrote...

I dunno the impression I got from the leaked GI article is that squadmates from ME2 will only be playable during select missions, and a good chunk of them will simply have cameos. So I think it still stands to say that no the ME2 crew will not be returning permanently. I doubt Garrus will be a permanent squad-member, unless he's going to be like the one alternative character a.k.a. Samara/Morinth. Which makes me wonder who fills in for Garrus? I can see them maybe doing this with one other character as well, but after that it gets a tad bit insane to design the game with totally different potential squadmates.

The way I think it might be done is:

- 3-6 Permanent Squadies (both old and new) who can be brought on (almost) any mission: these will probably include VS and Sanders (unless he's a redshirt). Liara might actually be temp, but I'm uncertain, as might Garrus (more likely than Liara due to  variables but less due to plot constrictions). You'll probably also get a Krogan of indeterminate nature.
- A whole bunch of temporary squaddies on specific missions, for example (perhaps): Wrex/Grunt on Tuchanka, Mordin on Salarian homeworld, Tali and/or Legion on Quarian/Geth-related missions. I think it might also be possible for characters to die during the game based on your choices.
- An Endgame, where all or almost all of the (surviving) squaddies are available for your final squad.

Thus a fair few characters will be available in-game for, say 1-2 major story missions, and then return in the grand finale so you can go out with a bang. Know what, I'd laugh if the group shown in the Bad-End Arrival trailer was your standard End-Game party, which ironically includes TIM.

Actually, based on the interview in GI, I'm expecting something like this as well. I'm putting my money on six to eight "Core" team mates, plus several more that will join you on a per-mission basis. 

I see Garrus, Tali, Grunt, Jacob, Miranda, Kaishley, Legion and Garrus being your core group, with maybe a couple newbies, partially because they're all the most loyal to Shepard and are the "front-line fighters", so to speak, while  the rest of the squad is more "support" characters -- Mordin the Scientist, Liara the Shadow Broker/Communications officer, etc.

Dunno what's gonna happen with Samara, Jack and Thane. But I figure Bioware will do something with them. 

I imagine we'll be fighting alongisde Wrex on Tuchanka, though I don't think he'll be officially 'in our squad'. 

[Eudaemonium]

I'm kinda wondering if Jacob will actually be back in any sufficient role, seeing as he seems to be s far from a fan favourite as someone could possibly get. Other than that I think your guesstimates might be fairly close.

The way I suspect the returning squaddies might work is, kind of like with ME2's starting state, there will be a 'default' group of survivors (I don't think the comic will allow you to make all the loyalty choices, for example, since that would just be too long-winded). Most of these 'default' survivors will be your permanent or semi-permanent squaddies, since this means those coming to the series fresh will have a full squad and Bioware doesn't have to write as much content most people won't ever see. I can't see them making Garrus a permanent squaddie, for example, if he'll only be in the game for people importing. Same for Tali. And let's face it both of them have to be with you at the end, at least. Its like tradition.

[candidate88766]

Arcian wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

 I've seen more "as long as I have Garrus by my side" comments from straight dudes than I have for any single female LI.

Do not underestimate the power of a bro4life.

Shepard, Garrus and Wrex. Triple bromance FTW.

[sponge56]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

on the variables topic, the mass effect writing team have already stated that they spent long periods of time working variables in, and that there were many differing paths people could take.  Its mentioned in that arrival interview with the lead writer.  Dont you think that this is some proof that what you are claiming on the variables being to much might not be true?

So let's take a look at how the Mass Effect writing team deals with the variables.

We have this protagonist, Commander Shepard, and we have two powerhouses he can respond to: the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council. The latter may be Old, or may be New. Commander Shepard has done many questionable things over the course of the two games. So here comes the trial of Commander Shepard, which, I believe, has been pre-planned all along. And how does the writing team handle it?

Right, they make a pointless DLC which doesn't connect to either ME1 or ME2's plot, or even some crazy fan theory, is full of plot holes, but in the end of which we're told that the trial will invariably take place on Earth which is peripheral to either of said powerhouses, and it will focus on the events of the said DLC, rather on any other variable out there. All for the awesomeness of having Shepard on Earth when the Reapers invade it. So yeah, I can sense a very creative approach to dealing with the variables here...

1) Arrival is only full of plot holes if you believe that the human reaper was supposed to be the new vanguard, although this is pure speculation and is NEVER mentioned in the game
2) It is a bridge to mass effect 3, you have already destroyed the collectors and soverign so what the hell were you expecting to happen which linked to the second game?  It also DOES link to mass effect 1 as we are finally seeing the reapers plans to invade, something we initially stopped in the first game and the plot deviated from in the second 
3) Again, the trial makes sense as many people including myself have said on a seperate thread which I believe you started.  A trial on earth both states that the Alliance was not involved (as a trial on arcturus would suggest) and that the council did not have any idea about it and wants to stay out of the issue.  The trial not being on arcturus is also NOT bad writing as it is only described as alliance hq and where the alliance parliament is, it does not explicitdly say that trials are held there.
4) These problems with Arrival only exist when you start INVENTING 'facts' which are never listed in the game

[Welsh Inferno]

Hah this thread is still going! I'm surprised Midget hasn't had a heart attack yet.

[Zulu_DFA]

sponge56 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

on the variables topic, the mass effect writing team have already stated that they spent long periods of time working variables in, and that there were many differing paths people could take.  Its mentioned in that arrival interview with the lead writer.  Dont you think that this is some proof that what you are claiming on the variables being to much might not be true?

So let's take a look at how the Mass Effect writing team deals with the variables.

We have this protagonist, Commander Shepard, and we have two powerhouses he can respond to: the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council. The latter may be Old, or may be New. Commander Shepard has done many questionable things over the course of the two games. So here comes the trial of Commander Shepard, which, I believe, has been pre-planned all along. And how does the writing team handle it?

Right, they make a pointless DLC which doesn't connect to either ME1 or ME2's plot, or even some crazy fan theory, is full of plot holes, but in the end of which we're told that the trial will invariably take place on Earth which is peripheral to either of said powerhouses, and it will focus on the events of the said DLC, rather on any other variable out there. All for the awesomeness of having Shepard on Earth when the Reapers invade it. So yeah, I can sense a very creative approach to dealing with the variables here...

1) Arrival is only full of plot holes if you believe that the human reaper was supposed to be the new vanguard, although this is pure speculation and is NEVER mentioned in the game

"Arrival" is full of plotholes regardless. Here is a few (but not all of them, of course):

1. Hackett calling Sheapard of all people, somewhat explained with the need to keep the Alliance out of this.

2. Batarians holding Kenson, but not torturing her to find out what she knows.

3. The artifact being on the same asteroid they were using to blow up the relay.

4. The indoctrinated Kenson and her team doing nothing to dismantle the Project.

5. Shepard not being restrained.

6. Unless the whole thing was just some kind of ruse by Harbinger, but then there is the possibility of failure, which makes the whole thing legit.

7. Trial on Earth, despite the whole premise of the Alliance's initial intent to deny involvement.

sponge56 wrote...

2) It is a bridge to mass effect 3, you have already destroyed the collectors and soverign so what the hell were you expecting to happen which linked to the second game?  It also DOES link to mass effect 1 as we are finally seeing the reapers plans to invade, something we initially stopped in the first game and the plot deviated from in the second 

Check out "How the hell Reapers get to the Galaxy without the Citadel???" and other such threads.

sponge56 wrote...

3) Again, the trial makes sense as many people including myself have said on a seperate thread which I believe you started.  A trial on earth both states that the Alliance was not involved (as a trial on arcturus would suggest) and that the council did not have any idea about it and wants to stay out of the issue.  The trial not being on arcturus is also NOT bad writing as it is only described as alliance hq and where the alliance parliament is, it does not explicitdly say that trials are held there.

And on whose authority Shepard is to be tried on Earth, if not the Alliance's? He isn't exactly a national of any of Earth's states, and no Earth's government has any jurisdiction outside the Solar system.

Besides, the GI article actually doesn't even say it's going to be a trial per se, just some kind of inquiry/interrogation (while the Alliance will be tinkering with the Normandy), which makes it even more nonsensical to have it anywhere but the Arcturus Station. Unless there is a very good reason for it, and the narrative makes it clear.

sponge56 wrote...

4) These problems with Arrival only exist when you start INVENTING 'facts' which are never listed in the game

The problems exist when there are not enough facts in the game to fill in the plot holes between the existing facts, so that there can be a coherent picture. So yeah, sometimes I invent facts, such a my "Shepard survived in the Mako" theory.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 avril 2011 - 11:23 .

[Gavinthelocust]

I think I remember a variables thread in the DA2 forums a few months ago.
They said Anders was impossible.
Point made.

[Zulu_DFA]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

I think I remember a variables thread in the DA2 forums a few months ago.
They said Anders was impossible.
Point made.

DA2's Metacritic user score: 4.3.
Point made.

[Gavinthelocust]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

I think I remember a variables thread in the DA2 forums a few months ago.
They said Anders was impossible.
Point made.

DA2's Metacritic user score: 4.3.
Point made.

Irrelevent.
The writers can retcon whatever they want, it's just a matter of whether or not they will. I don't suggest dwelling on it, you will be disappointed.

[Vanaer]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

I think I remember a variables thread in the DA2 forums a few months ago.
They said Anders was impossible.
Point made.

DA2's Metacritic user score: 4.3.
Point made.

Can you prove that a metacritic score of 7.9, which is lower than the BioWare standard, is correlated solely to a retcon and not to other factors?

[Zulu_DFA]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

I think I remember a variables thread in the DA2 forums a few months ago.
They said Anders was impossible.
Point made.

DA2's Metacritic user score: 4.3.
Point made.

Irrelevent.
The writers can retcon whatever they want, it's just a matter of whether or not they will. I don't suggest dwelling on it, you will be disappointed.

Right, dwelling on such things as logic, reason, coherence usually ends up in disappointment. But there is no point in giving it up either.

So, yeah, retcons suck, and writers who use retcons suck.

[candidate88766]

.

Modifié par candidate88766, 11 avril 2011 - 11:37 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Vanaer wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

I think I remember a variables thread in the DA2 forums a few months ago.
They said Anders was impossible.
Point made.

DA2's Metacritic user score: 4.3.
Point made.

Can you prove that a metacritic score of 7.9, which is lower than the BioWare standard, is correlated solely to a retcon and not to other factors?

I don't say that it's solely due to one retcon. But retcons definitely contribute to lowering of standards, so it's a good strategy to avoid them if you generally don't want different negative factors stacking up.

[candidate88766]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

 "Arrival" is full of plotholes regardless. Here is a few (but not all of them, of course):

1. Hackett calling Sheapard of all people, somewhat explained with the need to keep the Alliance out of this.

2. Batarians holding Kenson, but not torturing her to find out what she knows.

3. The artifact being on the same asteroid they were using to blow up the relay.

4. The indoctrinated Kenson and her team doing nothing to dismantle the Project.

5. Shepard not being restrained.

6. Unless the whole thing was just some kind of ruse by Harbinger, but then there is the possibility of failure, which make the whole thing legit.

7. Trial on Earth, despite the whole premise of the Alliance's initial intent to deny involvement.

1. Calling a trusted friend outside of the Alliance who has proved himself on dangerous mission. Not a plot hole.

2. We see her about to be tortured when we reach her, and who's to say they haven't been using psychological torture on her up until then. Not a plot hole.

3. They find the Artifact on the asteroid; the asteroid is large enough and so for convenience they may as well use that asteroid to blow up the Relay. This also destroys the Artifact so that when they're done with it the risk of indocrination is gone (probably their initial thoughts before they durped and got indoctrinated). Not a plot hole.

4. I agree on this one. Plot hole.

5. He was sedated, and seeing as they didn't expect him to awaken restraints shouldn't be necessary. Not a plot hole, or a minor one at most.

6. I'm not sure what this point is trying to say 

7. It makes sense that the Alliance has courts on Earth: just because their parliament is on Arcturus doesn't mean the Alliance's juristiction ends there. If the trial is to be public it cannot be held on a military installation, and if the trial is to make Shepard essentially a scapegoat then it should be public. Not a plot hole.

Hardly 'full' of plot holes.

Modifié par candidate88766, 11 avril 2011 - 11:42 .

[Zulu_DFA]

candidate88766 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

 "Arrival" is full of plotholes regardless. Here is a few (but not all of them, of course):

1. Hackett calling Sheapard of all people, somewhat explained with the need to keep the Alliance out of this.

2. Batarians holding Kenson, but not torturing her to find out what she knows.

3. The artifact being on the same asteroid they were using to blow up the relay.

4. The indoctrinated Kenson and her team doing nothing to dismantle the Project.

5. Shepard not being restrained.

6. Unless the whole thing was just some kind of ruse by Harbinger, but then there is the possibility of failure, which make the whole thing legit.

7. Trial on Earth, despite the whole premise of the Alliance's initial intent to deny involvement.

1. Calling a trusted friend outside of the Alliance who has proved himself on dangerous mission. Not a plot hole.

2. She may have been tortured - she doesn't say she hasn't - but I will accept this seems odd. Minor plot hole.

3. They find the Artifact on the asteroid; the asteroid is large enough and so for convenience they may as well use that asteroid to blow up the Relay. This also destroys the Artifact so that when they're done with it the risk of indocrination is gone (probably their initial thoughts before they durped and got indoctrinated). Not a plot hole.

4. I agree on this one. Plot hole.

5. He was sedated, and seeing as they didn't expect him to awaken restraints shouldn't be necessary. Not a plot hole, or a minor one at most.

6. I'm not sure what this point is trying to say [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

7. It makes sense that the Alliance has courts on Earth: just because their parliament is on Arcturs doesn't mean the Alliance's juristiction ends there. if the trial is to be public it cannot be held on a military installation, and if the trial is to make Shepard essentially a scapegoat then it should be public. Not a plot hole.

Hardly 'full' of plot holes.

1. Shepard is not Hackett's friend. He had been one of the tens of thousands of his subordiantes, before he was assigned to the spectres and then defected to the "terrorists". It's not a plothole only if Cerberus is still secretly working for the Alliance.

2. It's not minor. People who get captured while plotting a terrorist act, and don't crack up immediately, lose the ability to walk unassisted (let alone fight) within an hour of captivity. The Batarians seem to be totally uninterested in preventing Kenson's plan from completion. The Batarians are morons.

3. Too much coincidence. Artifact, asteroid, the huge relay, all in one place. Unbelieveble.

4. Enough to make the DLC full of it, since it's a huge one, and it destroys the coherence of the plot. Besides, Kenson must have been indoctrinted the whole time, so why did she share her initial plan with you anyway, since it wasn't supposed to be carried out at that point already?

5. Sedatives are never used as primary measure of handling captives. Physical isolation and/or restraints is a must. Kenson's indoctrinated troops are morons.

6. Arrival would make more sense if it was another "conspiracy". Namely, Kenson was lying (she was indoctrinated the whole time, remember?), the Reapers were not really arriving through the Alpha relay, but wanted it destroyed for some reason (even if only to spark a galactic war on the eve of their actual arrival).

7. Arcturus is home to the Alliance's Parliament, so it must be a public enough place to hold any kind of public trial. And in any case, at the moment Hackett can't know about all those considerations for sure. Or Hackett is a seer.

Besides, the GI article actually doesn't even say it's going to be a trial per se, just some kind of inquiry/interrogation (while the Alliance will be tinkering with the Normandy), which makes it even more nonsensical to have it anywhere but the Arcturus Station. Unless there is a very good reason for it, and the narrative makes it at least as much clear as the out-of-game reason: put Shepard on Earth during the Reaper invasion for the kicks of it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 avril 2011 - 01:48 .