1053 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

If humanity has never gone to trial for warcrimes before, they could be establishing this as they go along. Like when we selected the Hague as... well... the Hague. They may be selecting a location given weight by their particular history, in order to show their seriousness.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Besides, the GI article actually doesn't even say it's going to be a trial per se, just some kind of inquiry/interrogation (while the Alliance will be tinkering with the Normandy), which makes it even more nonsensical to have it anywhere but the Arcturus Station. Unless there is a very good reason for it, and the narrative makes it at least as much clear as the out-of-game reason: put Shepard on Earth during the Reaper invasion for the kicks of it.

To some extent, this kind of a quibble isn't something we can sort out here. It may be an inconsistency, one that nobody else sees,

Nah, not this time.

http://social.biowar...5/index/6865789
http://social.biowar...50/polls/17804/

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

but that you have cleverly detected. If it is, it's one that doesn't really matter at all. It's an apartment on Intai'sei, as kids like to say around here. It's something you feel like you were promised, but that most people never even processed as a relevant fact in any way, shape or form.

You've found an inconsistency that bothers you. That's fine, I respect that. I can't watch Star Trek: Generations because of the plot holes between that and the series finale of Star Trek: TNG. (LOOK, in All Good Things we DISTINCTLY see a future 1701-D that has been retrofitted with a third Nacell. How could that happen if the ship crashes and is unsalvageable!) Fact is, most other people don't see it as such. It's like when I was reading Anansi Boys - it's stated that Anansi doesn't have any friends, because all the animals are afraid of being tricked by him... wheras in African Myth, Turtle is still Anansi's friend, because Turtle always tricks Anansi right back. It really, really bothered me that Turtle didn't appear in the novel. Then I realized that he didn't appear because it wasn't bloody important. It was Anansi's story, and it would be muddled by representing the other African trickster animal god. So, despite the fact that Turtle should have totally been in that book, I was willing to look aside, and at this point I like it more than American Gods (which has even worse plot holes, mythologically. Great story, though. Well-written.)

I don't see what an extremely minor plot issue has to do with this thread I also fail to see what Arrival has to do with any of this.

Judging by the start, I'm sure there'll be more, come the ME3 release.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

You probably won't find someone who hated Arrival more than me. I offered to pay another $7 to unplay it after it was released. I think it is honestly the worst thing that Bioware has ever made. I also think how bad it is has no bearing on what ME3 will be like, just like the design problems in BDtS and Pinnacle Station turned out not to be indicative of any bad new direction for ME2. They were offshoots, designed to test whether a certain idea was viable. That idea turned out not to be viable, so they didn't do it again.

I'd rather get back to talking about returning characters and interesting plot variations here, rather than turning it into another thread about how the trial has to be on earth, or how Arrival isn't very good. Believe me: I agree - ARRIVAL ISN'T VERY GOOD. Can we now just  never speak of it again?

Hopefully we can get back to the more interesting topic of returning characters. Talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic - First day Zaeed-style DLC with every new game - good idea or bad idea? Discuss.

Zaeed is a good idea. That's for sure.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


To some extent, this kind of a quibble isn't something we can sort out here. It may be an inconsistency, one that nobody else sees,

Nah, not this time.

http://social.biowar...5/index/6865789
http://social.biowar...50/polls/17804/

That... poll doesn't ask "would you see it as a plot hole if the trial took place on Earth," it just asks your preference. Seeing that poll completely without context, I don't know how I'd vote. Heck, I might vote for the space station. That doesn't mean it's a plot hole. If I designed a poll that said "Which Krogan should come back as a full time Squadmate, Grunt or Wrex?" And Wrex won, would that mean that Grunt coming back was a plot hole? 

Still, I read that thread and still didn't get the impression it was a real problem, though I'll admit I didn't read every post. Perhaps you should go back to discussing this situation in the topic created for it, if you'll find some more fellow feeling there.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 avril 2011 - 02:54 .

[sponge56]

Almostfaceman wrote...

What the F, did I walk into the "having the trial on Earth is lame" thread? Jeebus.

it began with zulu talking about bad use of variables in arrival and its sort of gone from there

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


To some extent, this kind of a quibble isn't something we can sort out here. It may be an inconsistency, one that nobody else sees,

Nah, not this time.

http://social.biowar...5/index/6865789
http://social.biowar...50/polls/17804/

That... poll doesn't ask "would you see it as a plot hole if the trial took place on Earth," it just asks your preference. Seeing that poll completely without context, I don't know how I'd vote. Heck, I might vote for the space station. That doesn't mean it's a plot hole. If I designed a poll that said "Which Krogan should come back as a full time Squadmate, Grunt or Wrex?" And Wrex won, would that mean that Grunt coming back was a plot hole? 

At least there are multiple posts and comments from people that also see it as a plothole. And even though this may not be the only reason that made people vote for the stations, it's a significant one, clearly indicating that "nobody else but me sees this problem" is not the case.

If you check out some of my earlier polls, you'll find that, if it wasn't connected to the specific plot device of Shepard's trial and was just "a location to visit", Earth would have probably been a significantly more popular destination.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 avril 2011 - 03:27 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Earth is the seat of humanity, and is thus both an important and symbolic location. Not a plothole. Back on topic, please.

[ODST 5723]

It strikes me as odd that you see it as a plot hole when it hasn't happened yet and you've got almost no context to go on.

[Zulu_DFA]

ODST 5723 wrote...

It strikes me as odd that you see it as a plot hole when it hasn't happened yet and you've got almost no context to go on.

Hackett's foreshadowing of it in Arriaval has already happened, and it's a plot hole. Even two, actually.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 11 avril 2011 - 03:15 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
At least there are multiple posts and comments from people that also see it as a plothole. And even though this may not be the only reason that made people vote for the stations, it's a significan't one, clearly indicationg that "nobody elses but me sees this problem" is not the case.

Perhaps everyone else in that thread was eventually swayed by the arguments therein? The place to discuss that thread seems to be.. well... that thread. I can't seem to finish it, the discussion there holds no interest for me. I like this thread, though, or rather I did.

I will, however, amend my statement: while a few other people may see it as an inconsistency after you point it out, the vast majority of people do not see it as a plot hole, and nobody else in this particular topic has so far. Why not discuss it somewhere where someone who is concerned about the issue is likely to be able to find it?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Earth is the seat of humanity, and is thus both an important and symbolic location. Not a plothole. Back on topic, please.

So... ok. I like your idea of putting everyone in Sailor Suits and declaring them the Senshi of their particular planets. It's great, but it's made me think about something, in regards to Shepard's cheerful multiculturalism.

Are we going to have a full compliment of all the races again? If Mordin isn't a squadmate, will we get a new Salarian? And if so, how could they possibly compare? Do you really think we're still going to get a Batarian squadmate? I'd rather have a girl from one of the other races, I think, but they are setting this up as being all about the Batarians, so who knows. I was shocked that we got a Geth.

Will we get that blond squadmate they're always talking about? Variables!

[sponge56]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Earth is the seat of humanity, and is thus both an important and symbolic location. Not a plothole. Back on topic, please.

So... ok. I like your idea of putting everyone in Sailor Suits and declaring them the Senshi of their particular planets. It's great, but it's made me think about something, in regards to Shepard's cheerful multiculturalism.

Are we going to have a full compliment of all the races again? If Mordin isn't a squadmate, will we get a new Salarian? And if so, how could they possibly compare? Do you really think we're still going to get a Batarian squadmate? I'd rather have a girl from one of the other races, I think, but they are setting this up as being all about the Batarians, so who knows. I was shocked that we got a Geth.

Will we get that blond squadmate they're always talking about? Variables!

Also id like to add what does everyone think the squad size will be?  Im thinking somewhere between the size of me1 (which was nice but limited) and me2 (being to big and clunky with the extra DLC characters).  If their going for a middle ground then they might struggle to put in lots of new squaddies, although this new sanders guy might point to the fact that you may get a few new companions

[AdmiralCheez]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

So... ok. I like your idea of putting everyone in Sailor Suits and declaring them the Senshi of their particular planets. It's great, but it's made me think about something, in regards to Shepard's cheerful multiculturalism.

Really?  All I got from that idea were some very perverse and unsettling dreams.

Are we going to have a full compliment of all the races again? If Mordin isn't a squadmate, will we get a new Salarian? And if so, how could they possibly compare? Do you really think we're still going to get a Batarian squadmate? I'd rather have a girl from one of the other races, I think, but they are setting this up as being all about the Batarians, so who knows. I was shocked that we got a Geth.

We'll probably be seeing another multispecies bonanza, but from what I can gather from the GI article, the squad will be highly customizeable.  Therefore, it may be possible to have a team that is entirely human.

As for me, I'm really hoping for a batarian and a female turian.  I'll probably make them my new Bro Squad.

Mordin is irreplaceable.  Any new salarian party member must be analyzed based on his or her own merits because comparing him to Dr. Solus would be simply unfair.

Will we get that blond squadmate they're always talking about? Variables!

Only if Jacob bleaches his hair.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

sponge56 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Earth is the seat of humanity, and is thus both an important and symbolic location. Not a plothole. Back on topic, please.

So... ok. I like your idea of putting everyone in Sailor Suits and declaring them the Senshi of their particular planets. It's great, but it's made me think about something, in regards to Shepard's cheerful multiculturalism.

Are we going to have a full compliment of all the races again? If Mordin isn't a squadmate, will we get a new Salarian? And if so, how could they possibly compare? Do you really think we're still going to get a Batarian squadmate? I'd rather have a girl from one of the other races, I think, but they are setting this up as being all about the Batarians, so who knows. I was shocked that we got a Geth.

Will we get that blond squadmate they're always talking about? Variables!

Also id like to add what does everyone think the squad size will be?  Im thinking somewhere between the size of me1 (which was nice but limited) and me2 (being to big and clunky with the extra DLC characters).  If their going for a middle ground then they might struggle to put in lots of new squaddies, although this new sanders guy might point to the fact that you may get a few new companions

One thing I think will be interesting, (and may have been hinted at) is this - what if the squad is only 8 people, but you can choose from 12? Like, you start with 3 squadmates, and you only have time to pick up 5 more before you have to move on to the plot.

I'd say we might get something like 8 characters, with 4 DLC/Unlockable characters. Some fans of, say, Samara might be happy to pay $8 to get her back, even if she doens't have a lot more development than Kasumi had in ME2.

[CroGamer002]

^Why would I pay for 8$ for character I might have killed in ME2?

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

At least there are multiple posts and comments from people that also see it as a plothole. And even though this may not be the only reason that made people vote for the stations, it's a significant one, clearly indicating that "nobody else but me sees this problem" is not the case.

Perhaps everyone else in that thread was eventually swayed by the arguments therein? The place to discuss that thread seems to be.. well... that thread. I can't seem to finish it, the discussion there holds no interest for me. I like this thread, though, or rather I did.

I will, however, amend my statement: while a few other people may see it as an inconsistency after you point it out, the vast majority of people do not see it as a plot hole, and nobody else in this particular topic has so far. Why not discuss it somewhere where someone who is concerned about the issue is likely to be able to find it?

Because this is a "watercooler thread"?

[AdmiralCheez]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Because this is a "watercooler thread"?

Watercooler thread =/= sucking the fun out of everything.

Seriously, we're here to kick back, relax, and goof off.  Fussing about plotholery is best suited to a different thread.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 11 avril 2011 - 03:37 .

[MrFob]

I think there could be a lot of temporary sqadmates in ME3. It would make sense that certain people only accompany you for a time while you are dealing with their species. If the reapers are not only attacking earth but the whole galaxy, people would try to help Shep out whenever the can but they would also be needed elsewhere.
I am thinking of a core team of say 5 (e.g. VS, Liara, Sanders, Garrus and one other) that cover the basics and we compliment that with different people at different points of the plot.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Why would I pay for 8$ for character I might have killed in ME2?

Well, since probably only 1-3% of people killed her, and it seems like not everybody buys every DLC, I guess you wouldn't if you did kill her?

I don't know. I feel like they could get more interest in having a known character return than giving us some new person who doesn't get a lot more development. Maybe I'm wrong about that. So you're saying you'd rather have a new character in DLC, Kasumi style, than be able to buy Liara-style returning character DLC?

[sponge56]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Earth is the seat of humanity, and is thus both an important and symbolic location. Not a plothole. Back on topic, please.

So... ok. I like your idea of putting everyone in Sailor Suits and declaring them the Senshi of their particular planets. It's great, but it's made me think about something, in regards to Shepard's cheerful multiculturalism.

Are we going to have a full compliment of all the races again? If Mordin isn't a squadmate, will we get a new Salarian? And if so, how could they possibly compare? Do you really think we're still going to get a Batarian squadmate? I'd rather have a girl from one of the other races, I think, but they are setting this up as being all about the Batarians, so who knows. I was shocked that we got a Geth.

Will we get that blond squadmate they're always talking about? Variables!

Also id like to add what does everyone think the squad size will be?  Im thinking somewhere between the size of me1 (which was nice but limited) and me2 (being to big and clunky with the extra DLC characters).  If their going for a middle ground then they might struggle to put in lots of new squaddies, although this new sanders guy might point to the fact that you may get a few new companions

One thing I think will be interesting, (and may have been hinted at) is this - what if the squad is only 8 people, but you can choose from 12? Like, you start with 3 squadmates, and you only have time to pick up 5 more before you have to move on to the plot.

I'd say we might get something like 8 characters, with 4 DLC/Unlockable characters. Some fans of, say, Samara might be happy to pay $8 to get her back, even if she doens't have a lot more development than Kasumi had in ME2.

I think there would be much rage for that, I honestly would not like to pay for extra content that brings back characters , it was bad enough paying for kasumi.  The choosing whos on your squad also sound sawesome and I hope they do it.  Also hopefully it will have consequences eg) you have to choose between wrex and grunt, but if you choose wrex then the krogan war effort might be hindered, but you have a much better chance at succeding on your missions

[Almostfaceman]

MrFob wrote...

I think there could be a lot of temporary sqadmates in ME3. It would make sense that certain people only accompany you for a time while you are dealing with their species. If the reapers are not only attacking earth but the whole galaxy, people would try to help Shep out whenever the can but they would also be needed elsewhere.
I am thinking of a core team of say 5 (e.g. VS, Liara, Sanders, Garrus and one other) that cover the basics and we compliment that with different people at different points of the plot.

I think you couldn't possibly be a true fan, because the variables and the time skip mean the killables are cameos only in ME3 if that and that's because it's easier to come up with a whole list of new squaddies so the game can be standalone even though it's Act 3 and there's going to be a comic but

Wait... you probably have no idea what I'm talking about and I can't keep typing this while laughing so hard...

Just... disregard this...

[CulturalGeekGirl]

sponge56 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
One thing I think will be interesting, (and may have been hinted at) is this - what if the squad is only 8 people, but you can choose from 12? Like, you start with 3 squadmates, and you only have time to pick up 5 more before you have to move on to the plot.

I'd say we might get something like 8 characters, with 4 DLC/Unlockable characters. Some fans of, say, Samara might be happy to pay $8 to get her back, even if she doens't have a lot more development than Kasumi had in ME2.

I think there would be much rage for that, I honestly would not like to pay for extra content that brings back characters , it was bad enough paying for kasumi.  The choosing whos on your squad also sound sawesome and I hope they do it.  Also hopefully it will have consequences eg) you have to choose between wrex and grunt, but if you choose wrex then the krogan war effort might be hindered, but you have a much better chance at succeding on your missions.

Haha, point taken about the DLC to bring old characters back. Though a Day 1 DLC, the kind that comes free with the game (but that you have to pay $10 for if you buy the game used) might work, yeah? I don't know, I was so ludicrously in love with Mass Effect when I started to play 2 that I was like How Can I Give You More Money For More of This? I even bought outfits for squadmates I literally never used outside their loyalty missions.

Also, if that isn't a tough chioce: you can have Wrex, but it will hurt the Krogan long term if you do it. Now that's an puzzler. Hopefully you'll get him for a mission or two on Tuchanka no matter what, as a temp squadmate.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 avril 2011 - 03:50 .

[MrFob]

Almostfaceman wrote...


I think you couldn't possibly be a true fan,

[Harbinger voice]
THIS HURTS ME!!!
[/Harbinger voice]

Modifié par MrFob, 11 avril 2011 - 04:02 .

[Zulu_DFA]

MrFob wrote...

I think there could be a lot of temporary sqadmates in ME3. It would make sense that certain people only accompany you for a time while you are dealing with their species. If the reapers are not only attacking earth but the whole galaxy, people would try to help Shep out whenever the can but they would also be needed elsewhere.
I am thinking of a core team of say 5 (e.g. VS, Liara, Sanders, Garrus and one other) that cover the basics and we compliment that with different people at different points of the plot.

Garrus has been hit by the Variables, he can't be "core".

One of the others is probably Feron, and another core may be a Batarian (possibly the one mentioned on the CDN prior to "Arrival's" release).

[MrFob]

Yeah, I agree on the Garrus note though, thought it right after I posted. Actually I was just going with the GI info there. I was just making a suggestion on the possible makeup of how it might work, not specific characters.

Also, it's 2 in the morning here so I'd better go get some sleep.

[sponge56]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

sponge56 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
One thing I think will be interesting, (and may have been hinted at) is this - what if the squad is only 8 people, but you can choose from 12? Like, you start with 3 squadmates, and you only have time to pick up 5 more before you have to move on to the plot.

I'd say we might get something like 8 characters, with 4 DLC/Unlockable characters. Some fans of, say, Samara might be happy to pay $8 to get her back, even if she doens't have a lot more development than Kasumi had in ME2.

I think there would be much rage for that, I honestly would not like to pay for extra content that brings back characters , it was bad enough paying for kasumi.  The choosing whos on your squad also sound sawesome and I hope they do it.  Also hopefully it will have consequences eg) you have to choose between wrex and grunt, but if you choose wrex then the krogan war effort might be hindered, but you have a much better chance at succeding on your missions.

Haha, point taken about the DLC to bring old characters back. Though a Day 1 DLC, the kind that comes free with the game (but that you have to pay $10 for if you buy the game used) might work, yeah? I don't know, I was so ludicrously in love with Mass Effect when I started to play 2 that I was like How Can I Give You More Money For More of This? I even bought outfits for squadmates I literally never used outside their loyalty missions.

Also, if that isn't a tough chioce: you can have Wrex, but it will hurt the Krogan long term if you do it. Now that's an puzzler. Hopefully you'll get him for a mission or two on Tuchanka no matter what, as a temp squadmate.

It could work yeah, but people who got into the game late and only started getting interested in mass effect after the third one is released might think that they were getting conned.  And I fully expect that to happen, its unreasonable to have all your squaddies back but having them back as temporary will be awesome, eg) i loved having liara back for lotsb even though it was only for about 2 hours.  Also, this is not relevant AT ALL but many people were moaning about how bioware was being ridiculous about the thresher maw taking out the reaper bit announced in the mag issue, but one of the old cerberus daily news reports talks about a myth on Tuchanka that a giant thresher maw lives underground and swallows whole setllements.  Just made me have more faith in bioware, kinda showing there trying to make the story all fit so theres not something that happens which we just go 'well thats just stupid'.