1053 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

Elite Midget wrote...

Which would fit into the cameo, temp squaddie status ala Liara, or they expanding beyond just being Shepard's Guns dureing the Time skip.

True Fans should desire to see their characters evolve and not remain stagnet over a long period of time. Garrus can't remain in Shepard's Shadow forever and Tali cannot ignore when her people need her even if she's been exiled.

Uh oh.  Here comes the True Fans argument.

This is hilarious.  So... let me get this straight.  If I want Garrus to continue to fight by my side against the Reapers, then I'm not a True Fan.

If I think Tali can help her people more by sticking with me and fighting against the Reapers... I'm not a True Fan.

If I don't want my ME2 squadmates to be relagated to cameo's and I want them to have more screen time in ME3... I'm not a True Fan... because this may upset someone who CHOSE to kill off that squadmate in ME2.

:lol:

[Elite Midget]

A true Fan doesn't settle for less. Since the ME2 Squaddies can all die you would be settling for meager scraps by having them back as Squaddies that can't have anything to do with the plot. By making them Squaddies you take away the chance for themn to grow. Such as Garrus gettin his own Team or Tali joining the Admirality Board.

Thus yes. a true fan woul be willing to let go of the dead and allow them to advance far from just being another face you can choose for a mission without any real plot relevance. Hell, ME2 had no plot relevance outside Miranda and Mordin which was because Bioware added way too many Squaddies and put the story in the backseat.

So no, you aren't a true Fan because you would stubbornly demand that the Characters, despite all Variables, only go with the Perfect Variable and not to evolve outside of being Shepard's Guns. No, a True Fan is someone who care for all characters equally and demands equal treatment for all of them and not just a select popular few.

Bioware can but I doubt Bioware will ignore the facts they made just to appease the few that got a Perfect ME2 save. Not everyone plays through the game more than once and not everyone got all Loyalties or saved anyone. Than there's the obvious things such as Samara and Thane which I mentioned time and again.

[Arokel]

Oh gosh Elite Midget and his "no party members are returning!" theory again. Please lets just drop it and wait 'til E3.

[Elite Midget]

Theory? You didn't read my first post, did you? I point you to the first post lest you make a fool of yourself like in the past.

I already explained what made a true fan. Of course you didn't read that bit of my post did you? From your response it's easy to tell that you stopped reading after true fan and posted on impulse without substance to back your claims.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 26 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[Arokel]

Elite Midget wrote...

Theory? You didn't read my first post, did you? I point you to the first post lest you make a fool of yourself like in the past.

I already explained what made a true fan. Of course you didn't read that bit of my post did you? From your response it's easy to tell that you stopped reading after true fan and posted on impulse without substance to back your claims.

I didn't even get to true fan

[Schattenkeil]

Does not compute. How is "Unloyal" a variable? Can there be different degrees of unloyal? Like 15 or 120? What do you even want ot say by that?

Modifié par Schattenkeil, 26 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[Elite Midget]

Which means it's time for you to leave if you're just going to troll and post Off-Topic Dribble.

[Raphael diSanto]

Elite Midget wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

 I was going to deconstruct the entire original post, but I realized, halfway through, that really all i was doing was writing the same stuff, over and over. Kinda like the OP did, really.

For example - Using the fact that a squad member can be not-loyal as a reason for them not returning is a lame argument, because the obvious counter argument is simply that for all the non-loyal squad members out there, there's probably more loyal versions of the same.

All the OP did was post a list of reasons that could be used by the writers to justify the exclusion of ME1/ME2 squadmates in ME3. Those reasons are absolutely valid. But he (she?) has absolutely no way of knowing if they're actually going to be used, unless s/he is privvy to closed-door discussions about ME3 with the writers themselves.

There's precious little evidence either way.

An example: 

Yes, it's a "fact" that Thane has a terminal illness. But not a single person here knows whether or not BioWare will decide to have him get treatment for it. Life-extension treatment? Who knows? Cerberus brought Shepard back from the dead... Would it be lame? Maybe. That's subjective, I think, and dependent upon your opinion of what makes a story "lame".

But the important point is.... Whether or not it's lame, it is still a route the BioWare writers -could- take, should they wish to re-include him in ME3.

For every reason the OP posted for them to be left out, there's an equal and opposite reason -to- include them.

Here's your post. Sumed up as Retcon, forget variables, and basically do things my way even if it screws someone else over.

It's funny really... You have no facts to back it up but you say there 'might' be more loyal squaddies in saves than non-loyal. If that were the case than so many wouldn't have needed a common sense guide to the Suicide Mission. Furthermore, even if it's the majority you're willing to screw over what might be the minority since you're one of those that has everyone loyal. That shows your biased to only your opinion and don't care who you screw over just as long as you One and Only Perfect Choices make it in ala returning dead Squaddies that are more popular than other Squaddies.

There's no retcon in that post.

And for the record, I have six shepards, all with differing amounts of loyal and/or alive squadmates. So sorry, there is no "One True Perfect Choice" for me.

I once again repeat.. I am NOT advocating that all squadmates must return in ME3.

I can't say it any plainer than that.

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 26 mars 2011 - 07:48 .

[Elite Midget]

You didn't say Retcon but you said this.

[For example - Using the fact that a squad member can be not-loyal as a reason for them not returning is a lame argument, because the obvious counter argument is simply that for all the non-loyal squad members out there, there's probably more loyal versions of the same.

All the OP did was post a list of reasons that could be used by the writers to justify the exclusion of ME1/ME2 squadmates in ME3. Those reasons are absolutely valid. But he (she?) has absolutely no way of knowing if they're actually going to be used, unless s/he is privvy to closed-door discussions about ME3 with the writers themselves.]

Basically, you approve them retconning set and stone facts to appease a minority of Hardcore Fans.

I'm advocateing that no Squaddie gets special treatment when they all have just as many variables as another. It would cause a larger ****storm than just not bringing any of them back as Permanent Squaddies. The same exact thing happened when ME2 hit and that was when only 3 of the old Squaddies didn't return but 2 did and in that case the 2 returning ones can't die between ME1->Me2. Now see what happens when all past Squaddies don't return but 2 supposed most popular ones do despite their many variables and killable status.

You can't make everyone happy thus the best option is to treat every Squaddie fairly so at least that way no one got special treatment over others due to biased opinions.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 26 mars 2011 - 07:54 .

[Almostfaceman]

Elite Midget wrote...

Which means it's time for you to leave if you're just going to troll and post Off-Topic Dribble.

I wonder why anyone would want to leave after talking with you and getting to know the sun-shiny-warm-n-fuzzy you.

[Elite Midget]

You're trolling and it's pathetic. Though I must thank you for the free bump.

[Arokel]

There was nothing in your first post about true fan. It was a list of reasons about why each character may not return. This is a continuation of a long argument that is pointless. We DON'T know what bioware plans for our surviving party members, and we wont know for quite a while.

[Elite Midget]

You didn't read my other post that explained what a true fan is right? I point you to Page 5 and to read my posts there.

What we "do" know is that there are these variables and almost all of them but one, for a few, might have them staying. Though might is nowhere near as big as "Will Leave" that many of the variables give off for every Squaddie.

These Variables are unbiased, don't discriminate, and don't offer favortism to any of the Squaddies. After all, they're based off logic and fact that Bioware put into ME2. Ignoreing said Variables would be an insult to Bioware.

[Arokel]

There is no point in continuing this argument with you. Im done and i am going to wait for BioWare to tell us.

[Almostfaceman]

Elite Midget wrote...

You're trolling and it's pathetic. Though I must thank you for the free bump.

You're welcome.  Putting your opinion on display for all to see, is, after all, the point of a message board, no?  I want people to see where you're coming from - loud and clear - you zany "True Fan" definer you. 

[Raphael diSanto]

Elite Midget wrote...

You didn't say Retcon but you said this.

[For example - Using the fact that a squad member can be not-loyal as a reason for them not returning is a lame argument, because the obvious counter argument is simply that for all the non-loyal squad members out there, there's probably more loyal versions of the same.

All the OP did was post a list of reasons that could be used by the writers to justify the exclusion of ME1/ME2 squadmates in ME3. Those reasons are absolutely valid. But he (she?) has absolutely no way of knowing if they're actually going to be used, unless s/he is privvy to closed-door discussions about ME3 with the writers themselves.]

Basically, you approve them retconning set and stone facts to appease a minority of Hardcore Fans.

That's a real leap of deductive reasoning, man. I don't approve of retconning at all. But there ARE valid reasons why a squad member may remain in your squad in ME3, (and this is the important bit, are you paying attention?) .. WITHOUT RETCONNING.

Wow. What a concept, eh? You've completely ignored those reasons, and you've posted only the reasons (you call them variables. Whatever) why a squadmate would not reappear. That's fine, that's all well and good, and your reasons are valid. But you refuse to accept that there are also reasons why they -could- come back, should BioWare wish it, and those reasons do NOT involve any retcons.

Elite Midget wrote...
I'm advocateing that no Squaddie gets special treatment when they all have just as many variables as another. It would cause a larger ****storm than just not bringing any of them back as Permanent Squaddies. The same exact thing happened when ME2 hit and that was when only 3 of the old Squaddies didn't return but 2 did and in that case the 2 returning ones can't die between ME1->Me2. Now see what happens when all past Squaddies don't return but 2 supposed most popular ones do despite their many variables and killable status.

You can't make everyone happy thus the best option is to treat every Squaddie fairly so at least that way no one got special treatment over others due to biased opinions.

See, this part, I completely agree with. Personally, I think they handled the inclusions of ME1 squadmates into ME2 just fine, given the plot, and I have Shepards with romances with 4 out of the 5 possibles. Now, how they handled the -dialogue- of those squadmates is a different matter, and offtopic for this discussion. But their inclusion in terms of :

Tali & Garrus: Squadmates again
VS: Cameo, reason for Collectors being on Horizon
Liara: Information Broker, Shadow Broker DLC

.. In those terms, the plot-related reasons for them being around - I think those were handled just fine.

If we go back to working with the Alliance, I think it's not beyond the realms of possibility for us to get the VS back. If we don't, then I suspect we won't. If we break from Cerberus, maybe the Cerberus pair would leave us - but maybe not, given their dissatisfaction with TIM at the end of ME2 (based on Shep's own dialogue)

See? I'm not saying they should all come back, that it must happen, and that MY WAY IS THE RIGHT WAY.

I'm just saying that.. Well, dude, BioWare's got options here. Let 'em exercise 'em. That's what they do best.

[Gentleman Moogle]

Wait. Wait, I'm going to demonstrate my psychic powers now.

Midget's next response will have something to do with... Variables.

Because variables are important.

DO NOT QUESTION THE VARIABLES, FOOLISH MORTAL, FOR THEY ARE X, AND QUICK TO Y.

[Raphael diSanto]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Wait. Wait, I'm going to demonstrate my psychic powers now.

Midget's next response will have something to do with... Variables.

Because variables are important.

DO NOT QUESTION THE VARIABLES, FOOLISH MORTAL, FOR THEY ARE X, AND QUICK TO Y.

But as all programmers know......

Variables don't.
Constants aren't.

[Gentleman Moogle]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Wait. Wait, I'm going to demonstrate my psychic powers now.

Midget's next response will have something to do with... Variables.

Because variables are important.

DO NOT QUESTION THE VARIABLES, FOOLISH MORTAL, FOR THEY ARE X, AND QUICK TO Y.

But as all programmers know......

Variables don't.
Constants aren't.

You just blew my mind. 

[Elite Midget]

Not a leap since I'm no fool and I'm not stupid. You know what you implied but when I put it out for all to see, as you demanded, all you do is deny and deny. Why must you refuse to even stand before what you endorse and simply hide amoungst the shadows and try to make everyone believe otherwise?.

They aren't valid when you look at all the variables. It isn't plausible and you continue to speak as a fan clinging to straws for the impossible. What you've failed to do in each of your arguements that you refuse to place yourself in Bioware's shoes and instead continue to delude yourself to an unreachable dream. Maybe you should stop thinking about what you want and start thinking more on line on what Bioware wants and what Bioware can accomplish in the most efficient manner possible.


VS has a slim returning chance because of the responsibilities they now have. Simply put Shepard isn't officially in the Alliance anymore and not all Shepards will abandon Cerberus. Thus it means that VS has little of no chance of entrance due to that fact. This is from someone what was hugely miffed about VS getting the shaft in ME2 since I romanced Ashley. In no way did ME1 ever hint on how ME2 would begin or that I would have no option to contact VS even after the loophole they were given.

Squaddies evolve and it's all but outright said that Liara wouldn't return either. She's the SB now and can do more good there than as Shepard's guns. I've met many Liara fans that have learned to deal with this fact that they may never get Liara again as a Squaddie. Simply put they understand that Bioware has taken the character far beyond just being one of Shepard's random and irrelevant guns. With what they've done with Liara is what should be done to handle the dead since it's the most respectful path to take for the characters.

Bioware had options, yes. Than they threw a lot of them out after chooseing on the Variables to add in and the fact that they can all die. This is a clear sign that Bioware had no plans on ever bringing them back for ME3 since nothing major would be needed to be changed to prevent their deaths. Instead Bioware evidently has much larger plans for said characters beyond being Shepard's Guns and I approve of it.

Everyone would be willing to get behind their characters growing as Characters even if they must say good bye so said characters stay true to themselves and grow pst their intitial roles.

You're free to have your opinions but you mustn't ignore the facts and other factors that Bioware must deal wih. Finall I'm glad that you at least debate your point with intelligence than certian others that only troll me without provideing any substance to back their failed attempts.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with you but I do respect you for not taking the easy way out and trolling me instead.

Arokel wrote...

There is no point in continuing this argument with you. Im done and i am going to wait for BioWare to tell us.

Another that can't see the facts and must be told instead. Not the first time I've run into your kind. Blind to and ignorant to the facts untill a suit tells you the obvious which was before your eyes all along.

You may leave, no one here is going to stop you. Not like you even bothered debateing or contributeing to this topic anyway. Thus your presence will not be missed.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 26 mars 2011 - 09:37 .

[Gentleman Moogle]

Totally called it. Y'all owe me five dollars.

[Elite Midget]

Thank's for the bump even if you're just trolling and you're off topic. No one is forceing you to waste your time trolling and clearly you don't believe anything but what you wan to happen. Thus there's no point in you being here Moogle.