374 réponses à ce sujet

[Athro]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Refund4ThisBadGamePlz wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Just because you hate a game, doesn't make it bad.

True.  What makes it bad is that it's a buggy mess of limited scope and terribly implemented gameplay that takes many many steps back from its predecessor.

In your opinion. In my opinion, it's an above average game who's biggest flaw is recycled area's, with combat and characters that pick up the slack. A game that plays better than the original but falls short in scope. A solid 8.5 and a definite must play.

Opinions are irrelevant in the face of facts.

And what facts are these? That it is about as buggy as Dragon Age: Origins was - which was an extremely buggy game. Or that combat actually plays like DA:O - just with fancier animations?

The facts are that Dragon Age 2 is not objectively bad. It is flawed, but no more than DA:O was from a technical level. It does have more repetition of locations - but that doesn't make it objectively bad, just not appealing to all players. It does have a voiced PC - but that isn't objectively bad, just less appealing to some players.

Stop trying to claim that your opinion = fact. The only fact is that you don't like the game. Not that the game is bad.

C.

[djackson75]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Refund4ThisBadGamePlz wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Just because you hate a game, doesn't make it bad.

True.  What makes it bad is that it's a buggy mess of limited scope and terribly implemented gameplay that takes many many steps back from its predecessor.

In your opinion. In my opinion, it's an above average game who's biggest flaw is recycled area's, with combat and characters that pick up the slack. A game that plays better than the original but falls short in scope. A solid 8.5 and a definite must play.

Opinions are irrelevant in the face of facts.

It's a shame you haven't presented me with any, but instead state your opinion as fact, which by definition, is incorrect.

[ALVIG824]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Grim Fandango didn't sell very well either, which is how I know that it was an awful game. It shames me to this day that I enjoyed it so very much when its lack of sales is a constant reminder that I am wrong to do so.

And, conversely, if this game sells really well, does that automatically mean that it is a great game?

no of course not. COD sucks.

[Otterwarden]

djackson75 wrote...

A month's time would make more sense than a week's time. And the delta chang from week 1 to 2 IS NOT greater with DA2. 

Next week will be plenty of time to observe a trend line.

Confess to being tired, but from the figures quoted above it looks like:

DA:O had a 48% drop from week 1-2
DA2 had a 67% drop

67%  > 48%

[Athro]

Sharuko wrote...


I am guessing many of the first week DA2 sales were people that thought they were actually purchasing a good game.

The fact that sales on par after the hype and the massive success of DA:O should be disappointing.

Lesson BioWare should learn is never turn your back on your core audience.

That would hold true if the sales for Week 2 were of a considerable drop - but they aren't. They are about the same for both games. Again, the overall sales are higher. A rough run over that data suggests no significant change at all. Certainly not enough to say that sales are doing badly.

As others have said, it is going require a few more weeks to be able to call a trend of less sales overall or equal.

So far the lesson for Bioware seems to be "don't listen to Metacritic or negative forum comments." The sales suggest so far that all that negativity has had little impact. Let's look at it again in a month - then we might see something more substantial one way or the other.

C.

[Athro]

Otterwarden wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

A month's time would make more sense than a week's time. And the delta chang from week 1 to 2 IS NOT greater with DA2. 

Next week will be plenty of time to observe a trend line.

Confess to being tired, but from the figures quoted above it looks like:

DA:O had a 48% drop from week 1-2
DA2 had a 67% drop

67%  > 48%

However - the overall sales across those two weeks is higher than DA:O. You need more than three weeks data to be making that kind of call.

A month is going to give much more substantial data and information.

C.

[djackson75]

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

A month's time would make more sense than a week's time. And the delta chang from week 1 to 2 IS NOT greater with DA2. 

Next week will be plenty of time to observe a trend line.

Confess to being tired, but from the figures quoted above it looks like:

DA:O had a 48% drop from week 1-2
DA2 had a 67% drop

67%  > 48%

However - the overall sales across those two weeks is higher than DA:O. You need more than three weeks data to be making that kind of call.

A month is going to give much more substantial data and information.

C.

Honestly, by the end of April, we will have a much better understanding of how the game is doing. Spring break for high school and college students will be over. Plus there have been some other big games that came out in this time frame like Homefront and Crysis 2, not to mention Sims Medieval.. If someone could only afford one maybe two games in March, they had to make a choice... By the end of April, we will have a better idea.

[orbit991]

Meh, it wont even sell as well as the original, to much bad press, score is to low and there is a rampant negativity coming from the base itself. I doubt the action button awesome crowd will pick up any slack, it will shortly be forgotten and fall off the radar for them.

Modifié par orbit991, 26 mars 2011 - 02:40 .

[Athro]

orbit991 wrote...

Meh, it wont even sell as well as the original, to much bad press, score is to low and there is a rampant negativity coming from the base itself. I doubt the action button awesome crowd will pick up any slack, it will shortly be forgotten and fall off the radar for them.

Good points. Weekly data is only half the story. EA and Bioware will be looking at what was happening those weeks and will be wanting a good whack of data before they make any big calls about if the game was a success or not.

I agree - end of April will give something solid to measure on.

C.

[Shirosaki17]

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Refund4ThisBadGamePlz wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Just because you hate a game, doesn't make it bad.

True.  What makes it bad is that it's a buggy mess of limited scope and terribly implemented gameplay that takes many many steps back from its predecessor.

In your opinion. In my opinion, it's an above average game who's biggest flaw is recycled area's, with combat and characters that pick up the slack. A game that plays better than the original but falls short in scope. A solid 8.5 and a definite must play.

Opinions are irrelevant in the face of facts.

The facts are that Dragon Age 2 is not objectively bad.

Now you aren't being objective. DA2 is bad. There are plenty of flaws and problems with the game. Those are facts. DA2 is therefore bad based on the things that are flawed, wrong with it, and its badness.

[Otterwarden]

Athro wrote...

However - the overall sales across those two weeks is higher than DA:O. You need more than three weeks data to be making that kind of call.

A month is going to give much more substantial data and information.

C.

The call that is being made is that the trend so far is unfavorable.  There has not been a huge gain in new players from week 1 (launch week with all its hype) as Sabiancym pointed out was the case with Mass Effect 2: 

"Take Mass Effect.  when the first one came out, it sold 457,367 in the first two weeks in America.

When Mass Effect two came out it sold 833,094 in the first two weeks.

That's a whopping 82% Increase in sales for the sequel.


Dragon Age Origins sold 375,657 in the first two weeks

Dragon Age 2 has only sold 388727

That's only a 3.5% increase."

(his figures must be one platform)

Your last point is won in advance as clearly more data information is gained with each passing day.  Yet, if we were to evaluate the financial results of this bold plan to broaden DA's market outside the confines of its existing base, a 3.5% gain is pittance.  Was it worth the blood spilt? 

Modifié par Otterwarden, 26 mars 2011 - 02:51 .

[djackson75]

Otterwarden wrote...

Athro wrote...

However - the overall sales across those two weeks is higher than DA:O. You need more than three weeks data to be making that kind of call.

A month is going to give much more substantial data and information.

C.

The call that is being made is that the trend so far is unfavorable.  There has not been a huge gain in new players from week 1 (launch week with all its hype) as Sabiancym pointed out was the case with Mass Effect 2: 

"Take Mass Effect.  when the first one came out, it sold 457,367 in the first two weeks in America.

When Mass Effect two came out it sold 833,094 in the first two weeks.

That's a whopping 82% Increase in sales for the sequel.


Dragon Age Origins sold 375,657 in the first two weeks

Dragon Age 2 has only sold 388727

That's only a 3.5% increase."

(his figures must be one platform)

Your last point is won in advance as clearly more data information is gained with each passing day.  Yet, if we were to evaluate the financial results of this bold plan to broaden DA's market outside the confines of its existing base, a 3.5% gain is pittance.  Was it worth the blood spilt? 

Too soon to tell.

[Athro]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Now you aren't being objective. DA2 is bad. There are plenty of flaws and problems with the game. Those are facts. DA2 is therefore bad based on the things that are flawed, wrong with it, and its badness.

The facts are that there are flaws. But flaws =/= a bad game. They are part of what makes a game. Also, the flaws in DA2 do not outnumber the flaws in DA:O. So to go by your reasoning, DA:O is a bad game too.

A game can be good and have flaws - there are plenty of good games out there with bugs and issues that needed to be patched.

You are not stating objective facts. You are conflating facts into a subjective judgement.

C.

[Otterwarden]

djackson75 wrote...

Too soon to tell.

We must then agree to disagree.

[Athro]

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

[Shirosaki17]

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Now you aren't being objective. DA2 is bad. There are plenty of flaws and problems with the game. Those are facts. DA2 is therefore bad based on the things that are flawed, wrong with it, and its badness.

The facts are that there are flaws. But flaws =/= a bad game. They are part of what makes a game. Also, the flaws in DA2 do not outnumber the flaws in DA:O. So to go by your reasoning, DA:O is a bad game too.

I don't know about DA:O (do you see a game tag next to my name for it) I just know DA2 is bad. Unless you think bugs are good or flaws are good then DA2 is bad. I'm not saying a few flaws make a game bad. There is just so much unfinished, flawed, and bugged that it easily makes this game bad. I don't want to go into detail because it would take a long time and everyone has pointed out over and over what is specifically wrong with the game in numerous threads.

[djackson75]

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

If there was no net gain at all, it was still worth it, because they made the game in less than half the time, cutting the production budget in the process. 

[Jitter]

Are we going to go hardcore ...and factor
that DAO was selling for 50-60 bucks ... for months ..
And DA2 is on sale on week 2 ...
Just curious... Ill bet they could shatter sales records of they price it at 10 cents..

On Amazon you can but the DAO Ultimate edition for 3 dollars less ... that DA2

Modifié par Jitter, 26 mars 2011 - 03:12 .

[Otterwarden]

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Who do you think made up the sales that provided the foundation for that 3.5% gain?

The only difficult judgement call in this fiasco of an exercise is how to calculate the extent of the damage.  How minor is your supposed "minority"? 

[djackson75]

Jitter wrote...

Are we going to go hardcore ...and factor
that DAO was selling for 50-60 bucks ... for months ..
And DA2 is on sale on week 2 ...
Just curious... Ill bet they could shatter sales records of they price it at 10 cents..

Are you going to discount the $39.99 on black friday across the board for DAO? At least at the retailers I remember sampling (Walmart, Target, Best Buy).

Are you going to discount the fact that Amazon ran the same sale for DAO that they did for DA2, maybe not in the 2nd week, but definitely early in it's lifecycle?

[Jitter]

djackson75 wrote...

Jitter wrote...

Are we going to go hardcore ...and factor
that DAO was selling for 50-60 bucks ... for months ..
And DA2 is on sale on week 2 ...
Just curious... Ill bet they could shatter sales records of they price it at 10 cents..

Are you going to discount the $39.99 on black friday across the board for DAO? At least at the retailers I remember sampling (Walmart, Target, Best Buy).

Are you going to discount the fact that Amazon ran the same sale for DAO that they did for DA2, maybe not in the 2nd week, but definitely early in it's lifecycle?

On Amazon you can buy the DAO Ultimate edition for 3 dollars less ... that DA2
like 8 days after release ?

But on a positive note if DA2 gets one more star it could tie DAO .... dunno what that means tbh

Modifié par Jitter, 26 mars 2011 - 03:14 .

[Otterwarden]

djackson75 wrote...

If there was no net gain at all, it was still worth it, because they made the game in less than half the time, cutting the production budget in the process. 

Very short term thinking, because if you have not gained a substantial enough volume of new fans that adore your new game model of fast food RPGs you go nowhere with that formula.

Modifié par Otterwarden, 26 mars 2011 - 03:13 .

[TheMadCat]

Sales are irrelevant, the retailer still paid their full price buying the product from EA. At the most EA may give them receipts which is a small sum back for each unit sold on sale.

[Shirosaki17]

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Yes how can negative people who post what they specifically don't like about the game compete with the constructive fan responses of "I like DA2," or "I love DA2," or "I think DA2 is awesome"? You're right Bioware should get rid of the "negative and aggressive" customers who critcise their games.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 26 mars 2011 - 03:16 .

[djackson75]

Jitter wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Jitter wrote...

Are we going to go hardcore ...and factor
that DAO was selling for 50-60 bucks ... for months ..
And DA2 is on sale on week 2 ...
Just curious... Ill bet they could shatter sales records of they price it at 10 cents..

Are you going to discount the $39.99 on black friday across the board for DAO? At least at the retailers I remember sampling (Walmart, Target, Best Buy).

Are you going to discount the fact that Amazon ran the same sale for DAO that they did for DA2, maybe not in the 2nd week, but definitely early in it's lifecycle?

On Amazon you can buy the DAO Ultimate edition for 3 dollars less ... that DA2
like 8 days after release ?

Your point sir?