374 réponses à ce sujet

[Jitter]

TheMadCat wrote...

Sales are irrelevant, the retailer still paid their full price buying the product from EA. At the most EA may give them receipts which is a small sum back for each unit sold on sale.

I don't understand the sales model . 
Im sure they bought allot of them ...

What do they do with the ones that don't sell at all ?
and What do they do next time ?

Im no volume buyer that is for certain 

[djackson75]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Yes how can negative people who post what they specifically don't like about the game compete with the constructive fan responses of "I like DA2." or "I love DA2" or "I think DA2 is awesome". You're right Bioware should get rid of the negative and aggressive customers who critcise their games.

It's not those people... It's the "Dragon Age 2 is Nuclear Winter" type people he's referring to... Please don't pretend that all the people upset about DA2 are posting intelligent meaningful critisizm. That is just false... Most of this message board is made up of schmucks who post nonsense like "DA2 fail is fail" and the like.. or spamming the board with spoilers because they hate the game... or posting pictures of a dog in a giraffe suit... Bioware won't miss that crowd.

[Athro]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Now you aren't being objective. DA2 is bad. There are plenty of flaws and problems with the game. Those are facts. DA2 is therefore bad based on the things that are flawed, wrong with it, and its badness.

The facts are that there are flaws. But flaws =/= a bad game. They are part of what makes a game. Also, the flaws in DA2 do not outnumber the flaws in DA:O. So to go by your reasoning, DA:O is a bad game too.

I don't know about DA:O (do you see a game tag next to my name for it) I just know DA2 is bad. Unless you think bugs are good or flaws are good then DA2 is bad. I'm not saying a few flaws make a game bad. There is just so much unfinished, flawed, and bugged that it easily makes this game bad. I don't want to go into detail because it would take a long time and everyone has pointed out over and over what is specifically wrong with the game in numerous threads.

It's interesting you say that with Mass Effect 2 on your profile. It is also a buggy game with flaws. Nearly as many problems at release as well. Are you going to now claim it's a bad game?

DA2's bugs are not nearly as rampant as you're claiming. I've had Mass Effect 2 crash on me on many occasions, suffer from characters drawing invisible weapons, drop conversations, freeze, suffer screen tears...

I don't think bugs or flaws are good. But I also don't think that it's enough to say a game is bad. DA2 has a few flaws - but none that prevent you from successfully playing the game and none that are so regular and rife as to be a hindrance to gameplay. I know this because I have completed the game and currently have three more playthroughs running that have had no bugs whatsoever.

Much the same as my experience with DA:O, Awakenings, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. I also have played all games on both PS3 and 360 - so I'm pretty confident in my statement there as well. DA2 is no more buggy than any of those other games.

Try playing Fallout 3 on PS3 or FO:NV -then you know about constant bugs. And I wouldn't call either of those a bad game either.

C.

[Athro]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Yes how can negative people who post what they specifically don't like about the game compete with the constructive fan responses of "I like DA2," or "I love DA2," or "I think DA2 is awesome"? You're right Bioware should get rid of the "negative and aggressive" customers who critcise their games.

Read my comment again before attacking me. I'm referring to those who are just spitting bile about the game rather than the people who have been making intelligent and constructive criticism. I even bolded it for you.

C.

[TheMadCat]

Jitter wrote...


I don't understand the sales model . 
Im sure they bought allot of them ...

What do they do with the ones that don't sell at all ?
and What do they do next time ?

Im no volume buyer that is for certain 

They hold them and try to sell them, if they can't sell them at full price they go to EA and see if they can put it on sale and get reimbursed for the amount discounted, if EA says no then they mark it down on their own and take the hit. If they have a hard time moving DA2 and DA3 maintains a similar model and their people predict a similar sale pattern then they'll order much less the next time around.

[Shirosaki17]

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Yes how can negative people who post what they specifically don't like about the game compete with the constructive fan responses of "I like DA2," or "I love DA2," or "I think DA2 is awesome"? You're right Bioware should get rid of the "negative and aggressive" customers who critcise their games.

Read my comment again before attacking me. I'm referring to those who are just spitting bile about the game rather than the people who have been making intelligent and constructive criticism. I even bolded it for you.

C.

My point is that there are people who aren't being constructive on both sides of the fence. There are negative people who say negative things with no constructive posts, and people who are fans with no constructive responses. Why should fans get special treatment for spamming just like negative posters?

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 26 mars 2011 - 03:27 .

[Altima Darkspells]

Athro wrote...


It's interesting you say that with Mass Effect 2 on your profile. It is also a buggy game with flaws. Nearly as many problems at release as well. Are you going to now claim it's a bad game?

DA2's bugs are not nearly as rampant as you're claiming. I've had Mass Effect 2 crash on me on many occasions, suffer from characters drawing invisible weapons, drop conversations, freeze, suffer screen tears...

I don't think bugs or flaws are good. But I also don't think that it's enough to say a game is bad. DA2 has a few flaws - but none that prevent you from successfully playing the game and none that are so regular and rife as to be a hindrance to gameplay. I know this because I have completed the game and currently have three more playthroughs running that have had no bugs whatsoever.

Much the same as my experience with DA:O, Awakenings, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. I also have played all games on both PS3 and 360 - so I'm pretty confident in my statement there as well. DA2 is no more buggy than any of those other games.

Try playing Fallout 3 on PS3 or FO:NV -then you know about constant bugs. And I wouldn't call either of those a bad game either.

C.

Forgive me, but it sounds like you're basically saying that because other games are also buggy, it's okay for DA2 to be buggy?

I mean, DA2 shipped with a flippin' readme for the known bugs.  Some of the bugs are pretty severe, like reducing attack speed and damage resistance to extreme negatives.  This can actually prevent people from finishing the game.

Not to mention the plethora of quest related bugs.  There's at least one quest that never works in Act 3, and there's four or five companion quests that do not work properly, fire off, or are extremely easy to break.  Considering how simple most of these quests seem to be, the limited scope of DA2 (after all, the game is a fraction the size of DAO, much less larger games like FO3/NV which have plenty of room for things to break at), and the fact that BioWare had time, even with an extremely short dev time, to make Day One DLC, I find even those many bugs to be unacceptable.

However, you are correct.  DAO, ME, and ME2 shipped with some pretty heft bugs.  DAO, I know for certain, continues to suffer from some significant errors.  So while DA2's bug-list isn't enough to condemn the game by itself, it certainly isn't going to be winning anyone any favors.

[djackson75]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Yes how can negative people who post what they specifically don't like about the game compete with the constructive fan responses of "I like DA2," or "I love DA2," or "I think DA2 is awesome"? You're right Bioware should get rid of the "negative and aggressive" customers who critcise their games.

Read my comment again before attacking me. I'm referring to those who are just spitting bile about the game rather than the people who have been making intelligent and constructive criticism. I even bolded it for you.

C.

My point is that there are people who aren't being constructive on both sides of the fence. There are negative people who say negative things with no constructive posts, and people who are fans with no constructive responses. Why should fans get special treatment for spamming just like negative posters?

Could you please point me to the spammed good threads... links if you will.. Mr. "Fact is the games badness is baddy bad bad, your opinion doesn't count, but I'm not troll"...

[Shirosaki17]

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Now you aren't being objective. DA2 is bad. There are plenty of flaws and problems with the game. Those are facts. DA2 is therefore bad based on the things that are flawed, wrong with it, and its badness.

The facts are that there are flaws. But flaws =/= a bad game. They are part of what makes a game. Also, the flaws in DA2 do not outnumber the flaws in DA:O. So to go by your reasoning, DA:O is a bad game too.

I don't know about DA:O (do you see a game tag next to my name for it) I just know DA2 is bad. Unless you think bugs are good or flaws are good then DA2 is bad. I'm not saying a few flaws make a game bad. There is just so much unfinished, flawed, and bugged that it easily makes this game bad. I don't want to go into detail because it would take a long time and everyone has pointed out over and over what is specifically wrong with the game in numerous threads.

It's interesting you say that with Mass Effect 2 on your profile. It is also a buggy game with flaws. Nearly as many problems at release as well. Are you going to now claim it's a bad game?

ME2 wasn't this bad. Cmon be objective. I'll say ME2 wasn't really a great game either, and I've already posted my feedback on it. It still has bugs that need to be patched. But it isn't nearly as bad as DA2 is.

[Otterwarden]

Athro wrote...
Read my comment again before attacking me. I'm referring to those who are just spitting bile about the game rather than the people who have been making intelligent and constructive criticism. I even bolded it for you.

C.

The blood spilt encompasses many long time fans who have made valid criticisms.  Bioware seems ready to part ways with this crowd with their "consolize at all costs" strategy.  So far, this plan hasn't proven to be self-sustaining.  However, you both seem to think that they will pull a hat trick and surprise us all, defying the conventional marketing wisdom that "word of mouth" is still the most effective tool around.  You can try to astroturf, but if you fail; or worse, get caught at it and loose control of the message, that is usually "game, set, and match".

Modifié par Otterwarden, 26 mars 2011 - 03:34 .

[Shirosaki17]

djackson75 wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Yes how can negative people who post what they specifically don't like about the game compete with the constructive fan responses of "I like DA2," or "I love DA2," or "I think DA2 is awesome"? You're right Bioware should get rid of the "negative and aggressive" customers who critcise their games.

Read my comment again before attacking me. I'm referring to those who are just spitting bile about the game rather than the people who have been making intelligent and constructive criticism. I even bolded it for you.

C.

My point is that there are people who aren't being constructive on both sides of the fence. There are negative people who say negative things with no constructive posts, and people who are fans with no constructive responses. Why should fans get special treatment for spamming just like negative posters?

Could you please point me to the spammed good threads... links if you will.. Mr. "Fact is the games badness is baddy bad bad, your opinion doesn't count, but I'm not troll"...

Yeah I'm not going to waste my time. Your earlier post where you just say "I like DA2" was pretty bad, and equivalent to the kind of posts I'm talking about. But I'm not obligated to prove what I say is true. Nice try though.

[djackson75]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Yes how can negative people who post what they specifically don't like about the game compete with the constructive fan responses of "I like DA2," or "I love DA2," or "I think DA2 is awesome"? You're right Bioware should get rid of the "negative and aggressive" customers who critcise their games.

Read my comment again before attacking me. I'm referring to those who are just spitting bile about the game rather than the people who have been making intelligent and constructive criticism. I even bolded it for you.

C.

My point is that there are people who aren't being constructive on both sides of the fence. There are negative people who say negative things with no constructive posts, and people who are fans with no constructive responses. Why should fans get special treatment for spamming just like negative posters?

Could you please point me to the spammed good threads... links if you will.. Mr. "Fact is the games badness is baddy bad bad, your opinion doesn't count, but I'm not troll"...

Yeah I'm not going to waste my time. Your earlier post where you just say "I like DA2" was pretty bad, and equivalent to the kind of posts I'm talking about. But I'm not obligated to prove what I say is true. Nice try though.

Me saying "I like DA2" is bad/trolling? Yeah, we're done here.

[Shirosaki17]

djackson75 wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

djackson75 wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

Athro wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
 Was it worth the blood spilt?  

I'd say that if they aren't making a net loss in sales, then it probably is worth the blood spilt. If EA/BW are losing a group of customers who are so negative and aggressive when they don't get what they want and are managing to replace them and still get a 3.5% increase in customers who are happy and able to make constructive criticism about what they did and didn't like - that is likely to be considered still a win from their perspective.

C.

Yes how can negative people who post what they specifically don't like about the game compete with the constructive fan responses of "I like DA2," or "I love DA2," or "I think DA2 is awesome"? You're right Bioware should get rid of the "negative and aggressive" customers who critcise their games.

Read my comment again before attacking me. I'm referring to those who are just spitting bile about the game rather than the people who have been making intelligent and constructive criticism. I even bolded it for you.

C.

My point is that there are people who aren't being constructive on both sides of the fence. There are negative people who say negative things with no constructive posts, and people who are fans with no constructive responses. Why should fans get special treatment for spamming just like negative posters?

Could you please point me to the spammed good threads... links if you will.. Mr. "Fact is the games badness is baddy bad bad, your opinion doesn't count, but I'm not troll"...

Yeah I'm not going to waste my time. Your earlier post where you just say "I like DA2" was pretty bad, and equivalent to the kind of posts I'm talking about. But I'm not obligated to prove what I say is true. Nice try though.

Me saying "I like DA2" is bad/trolling? Yeah, we're done here.

You may be done, but we're not done. I'm still going.

[DTKT]

Otterwarden wrote...

Athro wrote...
Read my comment again before attacking me. I'm referring to those who are just spitting bile about the game rather than the people who have been making intelligent and constructive criticism. I even bolded it for you.

C.

The blood spilt encompasses many long time fans who have made valid criticisms.  Bioware seems ready to part ways with this crowd with their "consolize at all costs" strategy.  So far, this plan hasn't proven to be self-sustaining.  However, you both seem to think that they will pull a hat trick and surprise us all, defying the conventional marketing wisdom that "word of mouth" is still the most effective tool around.  You can try to astroturf, but if you fail; or worse, get caught at it and loose control of the message, that is usually "game, set, and match".

How do you know that DAII wasnt the right move for Bioware? I have not seen one piece of info pointing to such a clear cut conclusion.

Modifié par DTKT, 26 mars 2011 - 03:51 .

[Otterwarden]

DTKT wrote...

How do you know that DAII wasnt the right move for Bioware? I have not seen one piece of info pointing to such a clear cut conclusion.

Nor have I made the assertion that it wasn't the right move, simply posed the question was this strategy worth it?  We've been debating this for a while now: 

social.bioware.com/url%3Dhttp:/meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html/forum/1/topic/141/index/6600547/4

Modifié par Otterwarden, 26 mars 2011 - 04:31 .

[DTKT]

Otterwarden wrote...

DTKT wrote...

How do you know that DAII wasnt the right move for Bioware? I have not seen one piece of info pointing to such a clear cut conclusion.

Nor have I made the assertion that it wasn't the right move, simply posed the question was this strategy worth it?  We've been debating this for a while now: 

social.bioware.com/url%3Dhttp:/meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html/forum/1/topic/141/index/6600547/4

 Bioware seems ready to part ways with this crowd with their "consolize at all costs" strategy.  So far, this plan hasn't proven to be self-sustaining.

This is what I was referencing from your last post. Apologies if I misunderstood.

I just meant that we don't know if DAII was a runaway success which would more than justified(in the eyes of EA/Bioware) a departure from more traditionnal and "classic" RPG's. It would have also shown that a clearly "rushed" or compromised from a quality perspective can still draw enough sales despite it's shortcomings. Nor can we take forums as a way to gauge a game reception. They represent a very specific segment of the audience and the userbase is starting to be too varied to be judged through one segment.

It will come down to sales. And to a point, metacritic. The 79 which is currently the rating for DAII might raise some question internally at Bioware and EA.

Modifié par DTKT, 26 mars 2011 - 04:41 .

[Otterwarden]

DTKT wrote...

 Bioware seems ready to part ways with this crowd with their "consolize at all costs" strategy.  So far, this plan hasn't proven to be self-sustaining.

This is what I was referencing from your last post. Apologies if I misunderstood.

I just meant that we don't know if DAII was a runaway success which would more than justified(in the eyes of EA/Bioware) a departure from more traditionnal and "classic" RPG's. Nor can we take forums as a way to gauge a game reception. 

It will come down to sales. And to a point, metacritic. The 79 which is currently the rating for DAII might raise some question internally at Bioware and EA.

I'll stand by that comment given everything I've read from their post launch interviews, and don't see how a 3.5% gain over DA:O launch (at the 2 week mark) can qualify as a runaway success.  As for game reception, my observations have not been limited to this forum, nor hopefully have theirs.  One would expect any increase in sales to come from word of mouth feedback, so it seems strange to expect a significant pick up in volume.  We shall see.

[MyKingdomCold]

and hey look! the two Pokemon games almost sold 1 million copies in one week! That must mean they're the two best games ever!

And Justin Bieber's albums are selling really well! that must mean he's really talented and amazing

[Grovermancer]

Early sales of DA2 have nothing to do with DA2.  They have everything to do with DAO.


That's why they put a "2" after the title "Dragon Age."  And that's why most early sales were made.  It didn't happen in a vacuum.


That's also why it's disingenuous to try and pretend that high early sales numbers mean anything about DA2 being popular, or a success on it's own merits, or that the future of DA is secured.

A better indicator will be DA2's DLC sales.  When DA2 has to earn it's own way, and can no longer ride DAO's coattails.

[Gatt9]

Otterwarden wrote...

DTKT wrote...

 Bioware seems ready to part ways with this crowd with their "consolize at all costs" strategy.  So far, this plan hasn't proven to be self-sustaining.

This is what I was referencing from your last post. Apologies if I misunderstood.

I just meant that we don't know if DAII was a runaway success which would more than justified(in the eyes of EA/Bioware) a departure from more traditionnal and "classic" RPG's. Nor can we take forums as a way to gauge a game reception. 

It will come down to sales. And to a point, metacritic. The 79 which is currently the rating for DAII might raise some question internally at Bioware and EA.

I'll stand by that comment given everything I've read from their post launch interviews, and don't see how a 3.5% gain over DA:O launch (at the 2 week mark) can qualify as a runaway success.  As for game reception, my observations have not been limited to this forum, nor hopefully have theirs.  One would expect any increase in sales to come from word of mouth feedback, so it seems strange to expect a significant pick up in volume.  We shall see.

NPD didn't start accounting for digital sales until recently,  they didn't account for them at DAO's release.  So right there is a pretty big margin of error,  with a 3.5% difference it's very likely DAO outsold DA2 by a wide margin.

Additionally,  VGChartz information is demonstrably incorrect.  Reference Microsoft's press release trumpting Mass Effect cracking 1.6 million in sales in 6 weeks,  but VGChartz has completely different numbers.  If you cross reference Wikipedia's list of best selling video games with VGChartz figures you'll find many discrepencies. 

Regardless,  the NPD numbers will be out late next week.  That'll answer all the questions.

and hey look! the two Pokemon games almost sold 1 million copies in one week! That must mean they're the two best games ever!

And Justin Bieber's albums are selling really well! that must mean he's really talented and amazing

Isn't it interesting how a game with "Outdated archaic old technology Turn Based gameplay" manages to sell so many units?  From what I've been reading on the DA2 and ME forums those games can't possibly sell...

Or it could just show that a well done video game in any style can sell.

[AtreiyaN7]

It's almost sold 1 million in 2 weeks - call me in six months or a year, and then let's see what the sales figures are then. *rolleyes@early pronouncements about failure/success*

[Sabiancym]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

It's almost sold 1 million in 2 weeks - call me in six months or a year, and then let's see what the sales figures are then. *rolleyes@early pronouncements about failure/success*

You don't have to wait.  It's simple statistics and trends.  

Barring a major major thing like a complete combat system rewrite and patch, the game sales is just going to decline each month as do most games.  

Compared to all other triple A RPGs, DA2 is selling terribly and will continue.

[alkealol]

There is truth, there is lie, and there is statistics. The tricky numbers mean something on large samples and large times. Otherwise they are only tricky numbers and nothing more.

[Elitru]

Unreliable sources and a limited time frame prevents anyone from pointing out with decent accuracy a trustworthy value for the state of its sales.

As much as i dislike the game new direction, objectively i can admit the sales will be decent but not great, what i mean is the game will turn out profitable but not as much as Bioware expected by trying to garner a new audience.

One thing is certain thou, they pulled this stunt out of Origins success, another try like this would not meet the same end...

I also should add that i do not wish for this product to be unsuccessful, since it's not devoid of its qualities, but truth be told i feel it would be unfair for it to sell more than Origins.

Stop hating guys...

[Otterwarden]

Gatt9 wrote...

Regardless,  the NPD numbers will be out late next week.  That'll answer all the questions.

Thanks, I didn't know about them as this is not an industry I follow.  Do see the digital sales issue being debated here
apacheve3d.1up.com/news/npd-data-misrepresentation-industry
but also agree with the statement:

Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter disagrees with the sentiment that
NPD data has become irrelevant -- he went so far as to call it a "gross
overstatement." He explained, "EA saying physical game sales don't
matter is like Best Buy saying television sales don't matter."

Glad to see that you say it patched the hole of accounting for digital sales.  Seems like a smart play for a market research firm.

Modifié par Otterwarden, 26 mars 2011 - 03:59 .