374 réponses à ce sujet

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

planed scaped wrote...

randName wrote...


I'm also glad when cash-cows and "sellouts" fail

It's called schadenfreude. I think many people are experiencing that with DA2. That's where most of the unreasonable bashing comes from.

I think a lot of the anger comes from the perception that the game is moving in a direction (good or bad) that leaves entrenched fans behind.  People feel as though the Dragon Age series is "their" game, the game made for old-school CRPG players.  Bioware has been a sort of home for these players, the one place where a fairly immersive RPG might be made.  As Bioware takes the game in a new direction, it's like watching the taillights shrink in the distance as one's beloved man/woman/conveniently flexible bi-sexual love interest drives away.

That's where you get the hyperbolic emotion about the game.  It's not seen as a "meh" game by those with emotional commitment--it's a betrayal, an abandonment.

I am unlikely to purchase DA2 myself at this point.  I was actually enthusiastic about some of the changes in design philosophy, but they sound rushed.  I would have loved to see a game crafted slowly and carefully around these changes, to see where they could go.  The omnisexual thing among the NPC is probably the final deal-breaker for me.  I like the immersive quality of Bioware RPG's, and I'm not interested in playing Hawke and his merry (or moody, or disconsolate) GLBT band. 

I don't have much of an emotional reaction to the game, though.  It just doesn't look like a game I care to play, much less pay for.  I don't begrudge Bioware for including things I don't like, or short-cutting the things I might like.  I can see (or guess) why they might have handled things this way.  They just don't seem to have brewed my cup of tea.  If DA3 moves farther away from my gaming preferences, I won't be angy then, either.  There are other games to play and things to do.

[BeljoraDien]

randName wrote...

BeljoraDien wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

Note I said unreasonable. Such as the people who'd rate this a 1/10. or say it is a god awful monstrosity and Bioware should ragequit at life.

Legitimate concerns are not unreasonable.

Yeah, I don't like all the conspiracy stuff or how people were attacking BW directly instead of the game. I still like BW, and I thought they actually handle the forums really well when it was getting crazy, despite all that  "BANNED FROM MY GAME" that likely did just come from a glitch. They still have a history of making some damn good games... and I've read both of Gaider's books and played DA:O and Awakening so many damn times... I'm hooked on this world even if I do hate DA2.

It didn't come from a glitch, it was a system that EA introduced two years ago, and was discussed back then over at /. and was only brought up into the spotlight as of recently (EA policy, not a BW policy) .

Well, the capability to do it had to be there, obviously... But I'm not 100% sure they wanted to ban someone for negative comments; I most definitely saw much more warranted stuff they could ban for than "EA is the devil" if that was the case. It sounds more like more DRM garbage meant to kill games they suspected of being pirated, and it happened to go terribly wrong in this instance. That's my take for now, anyway.

[DrGulag]

According to Amazon ME3 comes out around December 31st 2011. That is an even shorter dev time than DA2 had, no?

Mass Effect is their flagship and the third game was probably under development when ME2 was released. I'm not worried about that game. It's not even that hard to create a first person shooter with some RPG mechanics.

But these sales paint a pretty grim picture. Six months ago their goal was to sell 10 MILLION COPIES. That's not exactly going to happen now is it?

[bill4747bill]

BobSmith101 wrote...

bill4747bill wrote...
I have not seen the sales figures. Has a total been released? All I have seen are a few snippets.

I was expecting to judge the sales in a month, or six months.

Most AAA games will have a good first week just on advertising. Unless they happen to have a bad release and come up against something huge. DA2 was very lucky, there was nothing else in the release window.

If a game has good sales you see it all over the place.

Pokemon 2.6 million first week in Japan
CoD 7 million in one day

The goal with DA2 was to make it mass market. It's failed. There is no way the sales can catch up at this point.

I will be interested to see how witcher 2 sells compared to DA2.

Not sure if pokemon and cod make any sense to compete against. What are your thoughts on that?

[KalDurenik]

Persephone wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

You know what im worried about?

Its that EA / Bioware will sit down and think "what did we do wrong"... Did we not make the game easy enough for people that dont like rpg's? What can we do to make it easier?

This is the thing im worried about... At this point looking at ME3 and its short dev time im most likely not going to get it. The overall decline of the quality of stuff released from Bioware as of late (games, expansions and dlc) is very worrying.

But yeah reading what they have said and how they are happy with the direction of DA2 and how they want to continue in that direction... Well i cant say im cheering for them.

According to Amazon ME3 comes out around December 31st 2011. That is an even shorter dev time than DA2 had, no? 

yeah its quiet worrying right? but oh well...

[Maverick827]

Merced652 wrote...

Yea but you know Laidlaw is just gonna blame Origins for already turning off the very people hes trying to convert. 

Why would that be unfounded logic?  I had to present a very compelling case to a friend of mine to buy DA2 because he was so turned off by DAO, and he now loves the game.

[Persephone]

KalDurenik wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

You know what im worried about?

Its that EA / Bioware will sit down and think "what did we do wrong"... Did we not make the game easy enough for people that dont like rpg's? What can we do to make it easier?

This is the thing im worried about... At this point looking at ME3 and its short dev time im most likely not going to get it. The overall decline of the quality of stuff released from Bioware as of late (games, expansions and dlc) is very worrying.

But yeah reading what they have said and how they are happy with the direction of DA2 and how they want to continue in that direction... Well i cant say im cheering for them.

According to Amazon ME3 comes out around December 31st 2011. That is an even shorter dev time than DA2 had, no? 

yeah its quiet worrying right? but oh well...

Well, only time will tell. Meanwhile I'll just enjoy ME & ME2 & DAO and DA2. And maybe check out other franchises, just in case.

[Merced652]

Maverick827 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Yea but you know Laidlaw is just gonna blame Origins for already turning off the very people hes trying to convert. 

Why would that be unfounded logic?  I had to present a very compelling case to a friend of mine to buy DA2 because he was so turned off by DAO, and he now loves the game.

Did i say it was unfounded? No, i didn't. It was more a commentary on Laidlaw's drive to turn this franchise in to Action oriented GoW/darksiders/<insert something not an rpg here>. 

[planed scaped]

I will definitely be waiting for reviews for ME3 before I buy it. If I miss out on preorder bonus's there are always other ways of getting them >___>

The pre order bonus's are partially what made me blindly order DA2.

And not everyone who dislikes the game is because of schadenfreude, just many of the really aggressive bashers.

[AkiKishi]

bill4747bill wrote...
I will be interested to see how witcher 2 sells compared to DA2.

Not sure if pokemon and cod make any sense to compete against. What are your thoughts on that?

Witcher2 is only on PC isnt it ? 

Those are just examples of how people love to advertise their sales success. Figures I happen to have memorised and not have to look up.

[astrallite]

Persephone wrote...

According to Amazon ME3 comes out around December 31st 2011. That is an even shorter dev time than DA2 had, no? 

Mass Effect is using a much better engine, excellent existing assets, and really only needs to give us a good cinematic experience.

Mass Effect also has virtually all of it's resources dedicated to the main plot, rather than 30 hours of "go fetch/kill for 1 soverign."

[Persephone]

astrallite wrote...

Persephone wrote...

According to Amazon ME3 comes out around December 31st 2011. That is an even shorter dev time than DA2 had, no? 

Mass Effect is using a much better engine, excellent existing assets, and really only needs to give us a good cinematic experience.

Mass Effect also has virtually all of it's resources dedicated to the main plot, rather than 30 hours of "go fetch/kill for 1 soverign."

Didn't encounter much of that in my DA2 playthroughs.

[bill4747bill]

BobSmith101 wrote...

bill4747bill wrote...
I will be interested to see how witcher 2 sells compared to DA2.

Not sure if pokemon and cod make any sense to compete against. What are your thoughts on that?

Witcher2 is only on PC isnt it ? 

Those are just examples of how people love to advertise their sales success. Figures I happen to have memorised and not have to look up.

I think I read witcher is PC only. It would be interesting if it outsold DA2.

[AkiKishi]

astrallite wrote...

Persephone wrote...

According to Amazon ME3 comes out around December 31st 2011. That is an even shorter dev time than DA2 had, no? 

Mass Effect is using a much better engine, excellent existing assets, and really only needs to give us a good cinematic experience.

Mass Effect also has virtually all of it's resources dedicated to the main plot, rather than 30 hours of "go fetch/kill for 1 soverign."

You can't really make ME any simpler than it is already. The only unknown is how they plan to expand or replace the skill system. It could all fall appart on that. Not another lazarus project.

[Hatchetman77]

planed scaped wrote...

I will definitely be waiting for reviews for ME3 before I buy it. If I miss out on preorder bonus's there are always other ways of getting them >___>

The pre order bonus's are partially what made me blindly order DA2.

And not everyone who dislikes the game is because of schadenfreude, just many of the really aggressive bashers.

If there's preorder bonuses outside of maby a snazzy set of armor to wear in game then I'm seriously going to have to question ME3 as well.  If I see day 1 DLC free if you preorder again then I just will not be buying that game.

[AkiKishi]

bill4747bill wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

bill4747bill wrote...
I will be interested to see how witcher 2 sells compared to DA2.

Not sure if pokemon and cod make any sense to compete against. What are your thoughts on that?

Witcher2 is only on PC isnt it ? 

Those are just examples of how people love to advertise their sales success. Figures I happen to have memorised and not have to look up.

I think I read witcher is PC only. It would be interesting if it outsold DA2.

My PCs are only for utility not gaming. Someone else would know more about how the Witcher is shaping up and will probably answer.

[BeljoraDien]

bill4747bill wrote...

I think I read witcher is PC only. It would be interesting if it outsold DA2.

That's a game I cannot wait for... I bought the collectors edition, something I almost never do for games. I'm going to try to play through it slowly and savor it 'cause after DA2 didn't turn out how I wanted, I seriously need a cRPG experience.

I kind of doubt it'll outsell DA2 though... Having absolutely no market in consoles is just too much of a handicap. They have been talking about porting the game to consoles later on, however... On one hand, that could mean more money for CDProject... on the other hand, it could mean console concessions again. I honestly don't know if I want them to port or not.

[mpchi]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I think a lot of the anger comes from the perception that the game is moving in a direction (good or bad) that leaves entrenched fans behind.  People feel as though the Dragon Age series is "their" game, the game made for old-school CRPG players.  Bioware has been a sort of home for these players, the one place where a fairly immersive RPG might be made.  As Bioware takes the game in a new direction, it's like watching the taillights shrink in the distance as one's beloved man/woman/conveniently flexible bi-sexual love interest drives away.

That's where you get the hyperbolic emotion about the game.  It's not seen as a "meh" game by those with emotional commitment--it's a betrayal, an abandonment.

...

That sounds about right. A lot of rage 1 or 2/10 review feedbacks, versus a normal 5 or 6/10 disappointment response.

[planed scaped]

The Witcher 2 will most likely not outsell DA2. Dragon Age 2 has EA to pmp out mega advertising not to mention it was a sequel to an extraordinary game.

The Witcher 2 seems to be a much more mainstream game then the first but because the first was so niche the second won't get the benefit off it.

But The Witcher 2 will be a joygasmic game nonetheless. There is no shadow of a doubt about that. My desire to get it has gone up tenfold after reading the books, shame only a few are translated. Damn Polish, why is their language so hard to translate.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

mpchi wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I think a lot of the anger comes from the perception that the game is moving in a direction (good or bad) that leaves entrenched fans behind.  People feel as though the Dragon Age series is "their" game, the game made for old-school CRPG players.  Bioware has been a sort of home for these players, the one place where a fairly immersive RPG might be made.  As Bioware takes the game in a new direction, it's like watching the taillights shrink in the distance as one's beloved man/woman/conveniently flexible bi-sexual love interest drives away.

That's where you get the hyperbolic emotion about the game.  It's not seen as a "meh" game by those with emotional commitment--it's a betrayal, an abandonment.

...

That sounds about right. A lot of rage 1 or 2/10 review feedbacks, versus a normal 5 or 6/10 disappointment response.

Saw the same kind of thing when D&D went to 4th Edition.  I think some of the hurt was even deeper there.  There's a sense of community amongst the tabletop players, and D&D has been a part of players' identities for a long time.  The WotC boards were primal scream therapy for a while there.

[AkiKishi]

mpchi wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I think a lot of the anger comes from the perception that the game is moving in a direction (good or bad) that leaves entrenched fans behind.  People feel as though the Dragon Age series is "their" game, the game made for old-school CRPG players.  Bioware has been a sort of home for these players, the one place where a fairly immersive RPG might be made.  As Bioware takes the game in a new direction, it's like watching the taillights shrink in the distance as one's beloved man/woman/conveniently flexible bi-sexual love interest drives away.

That's where you get the hyperbolic emotion about the game.  It's not seen as a "meh" game by those with emotional commitment--it's a betrayal, an abandonment.

...

That sounds about right. A lot of rage 1 or 2/10 review feedbacks, versus a normal 5 or 6/10 disappointment response.

My rating was 4/10 because DA2 is like the "perfect storm" of everything I dislike in a CRPG.

I don't feel betrayed as much as I feel like I'm shouting at someone who is walking towards a cliff listening to his ipod.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 25 mars 2011 - 09:02 .

[Merced652]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

mpchi wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I think a lot of the anger comes from the perception that the game is moving in a direction (good or bad) that leaves entrenched fans behind.  People feel as though the Dragon Age series is "their" game, the game made for old-school CRPG players.  Bioware has been a sort of home for these players, the one place where a fairly immersive RPG might be made.  As Bioware takes the game in a new direction, it's like watching the taillights shrink in the distance as one's beloved man/woman/conveniently flexible bi-sexual love interest drives away.

That's where you get the hyperbolic emotion about the game.  It's not seen as a "meh" game by those with emotional commitment--it's a betrayal, an abandonment.

...

That sounds about right. A lot of rage 1 or 2/10 review feedbacks, versus a normal 5 or 6/10 disappointment response.

Saw the same kind of thing when D&D went to 4th Edition.  I think some of the hurt was even deeper there.  There's a sense of community amongst the tabletop players, and D&D has been a part of players' identities for a long time.  The WotC boards were primal scream therapy for a while there.

They still should be, 4th ed is pretty horrible. <_<

[Hatchetman77]

Merced652 wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

mpchi wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I think a lot of the anger comes from the perception that the game is moving in a direction (good or bad) that leaves entrenched fans behind.  People feel as though the Dragon Age series is "their" game, the game made for old-school CRPG players.  Bioware has been a sort of home for these players, the one place where a fairly immersive RPG might be made.  As Bioware takes the game in a new direction, it's like watching the taillights shrink in the distance as one's beloved man/woman/conveniently flexible bi-sexual love interest drives away.

That's where you get the hyperbolic emotion about the game.  It's not seen as a "meh" game by those with emotional commitment--it's a betrayal, an abandonment.

...

That sounds about right. A lot of rage 1 or 2/10 review feedbacks, versus a normal 5 or 6/10 disappointment response.

Saw the same kind of thing when D&D went to 4th Edition.  I think some of the hurt was even deeper there.  There's a sense of community amongst the tabletop players, and D&D has been a part of players' identities for a long time.  The WotC boards were primal scream therapy for a while there.

They still should be, 4th ed is pretty horrible. <_<

They made the gnome a monster for christ's sake...




I'm a MONSTER. RAWWWRRRRR!!!!!!!

[orbit991]

Witcher was probably the longest game I ever played, it will do well for a PC exclusive title at least. Those guys won me over with their massive free update to the "ultimate" edition(or whatever they called it). Any other company would have charged you for more and improved content.

[WJC3688]

According to Amazon ME3 comes out around December 31st 2011. That is an even shorter dev time than DA2 had, no?

No, not in terms of time between one release to the next, at least.

ME2 NA release date: Jan 26 2010
ME3 release date: Dec 31 2011

That's almost two years. One year, eleven months, five days.  It's notable that this time gap is only slightly shorter than the gap between ME1 and ME2 (approximately 2 years, 2 months, so only about 3 months longer) and I think it's safe to say that ME2 still turned out alright (in stark contrast to DA2).

DA:O NA release date: Nov 3 2009
DA2 release date: Mar 8 2011

Less than a year and a half. About a year and 4 months.

Modifié par WJC3688, 25 mars 2011 - 09:10 .