220 réponses à ce sujet

[Wardog15]

If they bring back Garrus and Ashley I will be a very happy man. I used those to constantly in Mass Effect 1, having the old gang back together would be amazing in ME3. Plus I also have....unfinished business with one of them......yeah.

[Spectre Impersonator]

I'd do that chick.

[Bamboozalist]

GreaseMunkeh wrote...

Generally though, if Liara, Wrex and Ashley/Kaidan get supporting roles again in ME3, Ill just skip it and call an end to my time with this "trilogy".

Unfortunately they're the ones most likely to be in supporting roles. Liara is the SB, Wrex is busy leading the Krogan, and VS is a dedicated alliance soldier who has spent the last 2 years + time to ME3 advancing their career.


As for the "meaningful cameos instead of returning squadmates" option. It's well completely retarded.

With cameo missions you have 2 main problems, either A) the mission can't be all that important because that would totally screw the new players that everyone is always saying to "think of" when it comes to returning squadmates or If it is a critical mission they would need to have a stand it for example you and Garrus go blow up some critical whatnot to help the Turians fight back against the Reapers but if Garrus is dead then you fight along side Turian B. The main problem with this is that in situation A The character is no longer of any real importance or B it's even worse because they can literally be replaced.

But the main qualm always comes about is "resources" well lets look at how many resources returning squadmates saves.

Returning Squadmates

- Models and Textures are already made
- No need to hire new voice actors
- No need to create long missions for each squadmate as to not allianate the fanbase, especially after ME2 cameo rage
- No need to create anything associated with the recruitment of new squadmates

As for massive varriables? Regulating characters to Shepard's squad is in fact the best way to deal with this mass of varriables.

- They can't play a massive role in the story beyond helping Shepard. Plotwise Bioware doesn't have to worry about making a 3TB/65 disc game like they would if every former squadmate was as important as Shepard like some people want.
- People aren't going to miss out on a lot of content by not having those squadmates, mainly conversations and banter not massive amounts of gameplay.
- Characters can still be important while being in a secondary role. For all it's faults DA:2 did somethings right one of them being having your party members offer special routes to resolving conflicts. This gives party members a more important role while still being free to not completely impact the plot.

Now I'm not advocating "don't make choices matter" in fact they should make choices matter, Shepard's choices, what you do during some loyalty missions in ME2, has the potential to have great impact regardless of whether or not Squadmate X is alive. Squadmate X could just help the situation or lead to a more "perfect" result if they happen to be there.

Now the final concern is of course New Players. The solution is simple, randomize the suicide mission survivors at the start of every new non-import playthrough

Now of course returning squadmates have downsides.

Bioware writters can't be lazy, they actually have to show real writting talent and keep the squadmates interesting. This does not have to be new conflicts and problems, now some characters do really have problems that could be used like say Garrus' family. But others could be kept interesting simply from good or realistic writting. If squadmates return they've been Shepard's crew for quite some time now and they should act like it, they all don't need problems. Squadmates interacting with other Squadmates on the ship would be a massive way to keep the squadmates fresh, we only got 2 real conflicts on the ship in ME2 and that was fine, why? Because we weren't supposed expect this to be a long term squad. Having the characters interact with one another and have real relationships would keep things more than fresh. This would also allow for characters who died during the suicide mission to have an impact while not impacting the plot and overall gameplay amount for example Tali and Shepard having a conversation about Garrus dying or something.

Is Garrus dead? Y - Conversation about dead Garrus (the worse kind of Garrus btw), N - Garrus and Tali being bros.

Now the biggest problem with this is resources, to which I say funnel all those resources that would be used on new squadmates into keeping a consistant narrative and characters like a true trilogy.

[GreaseMunkeh]

Bamboozalist wrote...
*snip*

I dont know, Id say unless Bioware were willing to go out of their way to placate a small group of very vocal fans and ignore what was previous said, at the very least Liara and the Virmire Survivors chances of being squadmates in ME3 is about.... a billion times better than that of the ME2 squad.

If its easier to make squadmates instead of cameos, why did Bioware leave out Liara and the Virmire Survivor (or romances if you prefer) out of ME2 by and large under the claims that they were "saved for ME3"? Why not just make them squadmates and say to hell with it?

Liara and Ashley/Kaidan are guaranteed to be in every single game of ME3. That alone puts them miles ahead of the entire ME2 squad in terms of getting a position on the squad in ME3. The question is not "should they?" Thats easy: Absolutely. Its "will they?" Im not so sure. If they dont though, thats too damned stupid for me.

Besides, the entire ME2 squad that survives into ME3 is going to be tied up with "insert random, easily written around idea here" so they cant join.

What? Liara is the Shadow Broker so she cant join? Ive got an idea. How about, the reapers arent morons, and dont want the flow of information around the galaxy to continue (they clearly believe knowledge is power), and so attack Liaras setup as the Shadow Broker. She has to take refuge with Shepard, but not before finding out about some Prothean doohicky mentioned in LotSB that will help Shepard on his quest to stop the reapers.

No wait, I forgot. Shes the Shadow Broker. That means she HAS to stay in a passive sideline roll. Damn it.

[dleo95]

MIRANDA! MIRANDA!

[kalle90]

Bamboozalist wrote...
...a true trilogy.

Halleluja!

By reading the OP I got the idea Mac means that every squadmate alive/dead status would lead into a huge string of variables, which I don't understand. Sure Jack's survival and loyalty could impact Miranda's role and mission in ME3 but who really is asking for that?

What I see is just a simple list:
Garrus: Alive - Dead
Jacob: Alive - Dead
Wrex: Alive - Dead
...
If they're just placed in my squad they don't need anything but dialogue (which doesn't need to delve that deep  into personal issues etc. during the ending act) that doesn't need more than the usual 2 or 3 crossreferences to other characters. Almost the same goes for minor characters whether they are to join my squad, have a brief cameo or send an email. They can be brought back well without a huge line of variables.

Putting them in meaningful story role is harder (except for Liara (though I wonder how she is handled for those who haven't played LOTSB), Wrex/Wreav and Kaidan/Ashley who must live in the beginning of ME3) while just ignoring them (all or even a couple) would be downright wrong

It seems Bioware is just trying to set up the audience so we will accept not having our ME2 consequenses effect much.



The last solution is DLC. Add those minor characters who don't fit in main game (Shiala, Kal Reegar etc. possibilities) through DLC. I don't care about seeing new faces but seeing old faces would be greatly appreciated (Arrival would have been better with 1 or 2 other familiar people like Dr. Michel). Especially if the DLC is playable anytime during the game.

ME3 should end the strings and leaving too many minor characters unnoticed just doesn't suit that. Plus those minor characters (moral choice, death etc.) could have a lot bigger impact on players than unknown new faces can.
 
If nothing else show us many of the minor characters getting massacared by Reaper attacks like the Jedis got pummeled in Revenge of The Sith one by one. Way better than ignoring 50 characters. But a few left up to our imagination is always nice.

Modifié par kalle90, 30 mars 2011 - 11:16 .

[Bamboozalist]

GreaseMunkeh wrote...

If its easier to make squadmates instead of cameos, why did Bioware leave out Liara and the Virmire Survivor (or romances if you prefer) out of ME2 by and large under the claims that they were "saved for ME3"?

Because Bioware wanted them to actually be important, which is why they probably won't be squadmates in ME3 because Squadmates impact in the mass effect universe is all of Jack and S*** while they're still squadmates. Wrex, Liara, and the VS aren't actively featured in ME2 because they're doing important crap to set them up so that hopefully in the long run they'll actually matter and impact the plot of ME3.

[Phaedon]

These are states, not variables, variables would have been considerably less.
(Add ALIVE and DEAD states for Morinth)

[Temaperacl]

Phaedon wrote...






These are states, not variables, variables would have been considerably less.
(Add ALIVE and DEAD states for Morinth)

Also missing
Legion - Never activated, kept
Legion - Never activated, transferred to Cerberus
which imply some other states, but may themselves also be meaningful.

Modifié par Temaperacl, 31 mars 2011 - 07:36 .

[Iamnotahater]

I'll be interested to see how the game handles the fact that during my game I managed to complete the game without anyone dying (crew or teammates).

[habitat 67]

Phaedon, that is quite a spectacular graph.

[dtmoss]

im going nutz over dis!

[Bamboozalist]

Phaedon wrote...

These are states, not variables, variables would have been considerably less.
(Add ALIVE and DEAD states for Morinth)

For LIs having a LI/Not LI flag for everyone is redundant. Do what ME2 does, check simply for who was romanced in both games and ignore everything else.

[bluewolv1970]

well Garrus in in ME3 so that means Tali is also likely...Edi is in for sure too...

[Phaedon]

Temaperacl wrote...
Also missing 
Legion - Never activated, kept

I think than inactive Legion and Grunt die during the IFF mission.

Legion - Never activated, transferred to Cerberus
which imply some other states, but may themselves also be meaningful.

That, yes.

Bamboozalist wrote...
For LIs having a LI/Not LI flag for everyone is redundant. Do what ME2 does, check simply for who was romanced in both games and ignore everything else.

Actually, most states are redundant, partially or completely.
I am just posting this graph because the list of the flags (around 30) is not quite as impressive/easy to be believed, and this one includes consequences.

Does that make sense?

Modifié par Phaedon, 01 avril 2011 - 06:34 .

[Bamboozalist]

Phaedon wrote...
Actually, most states are redundant, partially or completely.
I am just posting this graph because the list of the flags (around 30) is not quite as impressive/easy to be believed, and this one includes consequences.

Does that make sense?

It makes sense, but it kinda defeats the purpose of showing how little actually has to go into returning squadmates because of overlapping variables.

[Phaedon]

Bamboozalist wrote...
It makes sense, but it kinda defeats the purpose of showing how little actually has to go into returning squadmates because of overlapping variables. 

Hmm, maybe I should make an improved version then.

[CroGamer002]

My idea that if Grunt is not waken up Cerberus take him for research.
If you leave Cerberus then he dies.

Legion get's recruited if not activated between ME2 and ME3 and dialogue is a little different.

Just a theory.

[Phaedon]

No, what I mean is, that after the Collectors abducting your crew, and if you haven't Grunt or Legion activated, they never appear at all, which probably means that they are dead.

[Dominus]

No, what I mean is, that after the Collectors abducting your crew, and if you haven't Grunt or Legion activated, they never appear at all, which probably means that they are dead.

That's unfortunate, but not really surprising. There isn't an enormous point to mention that you sold legion, or kept grunt in a fridge by the end of the game.

[vimpel]

The nose of this girl can stop reapers!

[PrinceLionheart]

Honestly, I still don't believe any of the ME2 squadmates will be playable. Even with the "Who kills off their squaddies" comeback people like to use, it's still the simple fact that they can be killed really does shoot down their chances of be playable.

Outside of that, the LIs (Miranda, Jack, Tali, Garrus, Jacob, Thane) all will definitely play some sort of supporting role. Outside of those six, Mordin is the only other sqaudmember that has the best chance of playing a big(ger) role.

Samara will Cameo, Grunt and Legion both have very slim chances since you don't even have to "recruit" them, and Zaeed and Kasumi will be emails.

[GreaseMunkeh]

Bamboozalist wrote...

Because Bioware wanted them to actually be important, which is why they probably won't be squadmates in ME3 because Squadmates impact in the mass effect universe is all of Jack and S*** while they're still squadmates. Wrex, Liara, and the VS aren't actively featured in ME2 because they're doing important crap to set them up so that hopefully in the long run they'll actually matter and impact the plot of ME3.

Did you not play ME1? I know as of ME2 Bioware relegated squadmates to "combat aides", but in ME1 a number of SQUADMATES played crucial parts in the story whereby the game could not be completed without them.

You know Liara in ME1? She had information vital to Shepard understanding and stopping the Reaper threat. That could easily happen in ME3 as well. And considering the ME2 squadmates felt too detached from anything but their own loyalty mission, I think Bioware would be better off involving squadmates heavily in the plot for ME3, otherwise why not just replace them with mechs?

[Chuvvy]

Did anyone ask why he writes like a drug addled 15 year old?

[AdmiralCheez]

Slidell505 wrote...

Did anyone ask why he writes like a drug addled 15 year old?

Because drug-addled 15-year-olds write like this.

Mac has his fail moments, but it could be worse.  Much worse.