65 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Did it actually ever work for anyone? Just curious.

[Ryzaki]

I'm fairly certain it's bugged. I have dialogue with Anders saying "I need to undo this..." and getting screamed at by Vengeance and having Anders say Justice isn't the same.

And then it goes back to "oh I planned this all along." So yeah. It's bugged.That convo makes no sense otherwise.

[Benny S]

Not sure if anyone is still keeping up with this topic or at least following these posts but i just got Anders to side with the me against the mages. It was my 1st attempt so im not sure if i got lucky with dialog choices (or if the most recent patches have fixed some bug) but i rivaled & romanced Anders and chose the star dialog option that told him "i forgive you" and then the option for him to help fix things. Using PC patch 1.03

Also, not sure if it matters but just after completing Best Served Cold quest i reported Anders to the Knight Captain in the Gallows...Cullen i think

Modifié par Benny S, 21 août 2011 - 01:10 .

[Gervaise]

It is probably one of those things which you can only do if in a romance. I suppose it makes sense that if he could bring himself to romance someone who has totally opposite views, then it might be possible for that person to persuade him he was wrong and get him to side with the Templars. I'm not altogether sure about this Rivalmance thing because I feel that whilst you might be willing to have a sexy fling with someone who has a totally different outlook on life, getting beyond that into love is a problem, particularly with the risks involved in harbouring an apostate. But maybe that just says more about me.

Nevertheless, with Anders surely it is more likely that he would listen to a friend, who has shared his views but now tells him he was wrong, than with someone who has constantly opposed him. This is what has annoyed me so much about the ending - you have supported mage freedom, have done everything you can to help mages, have supported Anders along the way as a friend, but you think the bomb was a really bad, stupid, insane idea - only option is to kill him as he is totally unrepentant. To know that if you oppose him every inch of the way, tell him he is an abomination from the start, refuse to help him make his bomb - then you can get him to repent and help you if you side with the Templars?

[esper]

Gervaise wrote...

It is probably one of those things which you can only do if in a romance. I suppose it makes sense that if he could bring himself to romance someone who has totally opposite views, then it might be possible for that person to persuade him he was wrong and get him to side with the Templars. I'm not altogether sure about this Rivalmance thing because I feel that whilst you might be willing to have a sexy fling with someone who has a totally different outlook on life, getting beyond that into love is a problem, particularly with the risks involved in harbouring an apostate. But maybe that just says more about me.

Nevertheless, with Anders surely it is more likely that he would listen to a friend, who has shared his views but now tells him he was wrong, than with someone who has constantly opposed him. This is what has annoyed me so much about the ending - you have supported mage freedom, have done everything you can to help mages, have supported Anders along the way as a friend, but you think the bomb was a really bad, stupid, insane idea - only option is to kill him as he is totally unrepentant. To know that if you oppose him every inch of the way, tell him he is an abomination from the start, refuse to help him make his bomb - then you can get him to repent and help you if you side with the Templars?

No you don't get him to repent. You convince him that he is a monster and can't make a sound judgment and thus most follow Hawke to undo what he has done.
If you are on friendship path, you have supported freedom for mages and yet sided with the templars. If anything he should see you as a traitor to the cause. And in any case. Anders doesn't question himself the same way in friendship path thus you can't convince that what he has done is wrong.

[Anyroad2]

Hm...

I think Ive done this.

If I remember right, I was full friendship with Anders by supporting the mages (cant remember if my Hawke was romanced with him, but I think she was a mage).

Anders blows up the Chantry.

Hawke is in shock, tells Anders that hes a murderer.

Hawke chooses to side with the Templars after hearing out both sides. Basically lets you take the "We need to help the Templars to restore order as quickly as possible." route.

Hawke asks the group what they should do with Anders.

Hawke asks Anders to fight with the Templars and he agrees.


I'm like 99% sure that this is what happend. I remember Warden Carver being shocked that his mage sister was helping the Templars. I remember telling him that it was for the people of the city, not for the templars cause.

Modifié par Anyroad2, 22 août 2011 - 12:56 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Honestly, I find it out of character for Anders, regardless of Hawke's arguements or influence, to ever side with the templars in an annulment of the Circle. Justice certainly would not allow it, and even if Anders believes he has done wrong and wishes to make up for it, I still can't see him helping the templars annul a Circle innocent of his crimes.

[TJPags]

Anyroad2 wrote...

Hm...

I think Ive done this.

If I remember right, I was full friendship with Anders by supporting the mages (cant remember if my Hawke was romanced with him, but I think she was a mage).

Anders blows up the Chantry.

Hawke is in shock, tells Anders that hes a murderer.

Hawke chooses to side with the Templars after hearing out both sides. Basically lets you take the "We need to help the Templars to restore order as quickly as possible." route.

Hawke asks the group what they should do with Anders.

Hawke asks Anders to fight with the Templars and he agrees.


I'm like 99% sure that this is what happend. I remember Warden Carver being shocked that his mage sister was helping the Templars. I remember telling him that it was for the people of the city, not for the templars cause.

Wait, what?  This is possible?  Templar/Chantry hating free the mages at all costs Anders will agree to help the Templars in the RoA???

If this is true, this game may just be the biggest POS ever.

[Sepewrath]

I thought the only way it was possible, was through a rivalry, though that always seemed backwards to me.

[Anyroad2]

TJPags wrote...

Wait, what?  This is possible?  Templar/Chantry hating free the mages at all costs Anders will agree to help the Templars in the RoA???

If this is true, this game may just be the biggest POS ever.

Anders is also an Andrastian (even though he may not agree or belive everything that they say), if you recall. I don't really think that having him fight along side the templars with Hawke (a fellow mage) is that big of a stretch if you do things right.

By reading this thread, it seems that this is a pretty complicated and rare result.


Like I said, you as a fellow mage, basically agree to help the templars because of the innocent citizens and you can be a strong voice of reason during the Anullment (I know that I was able to spare a group of mages, think it happens right as you enter the Circle proper), sparing the mages who don't give into Blood Magic.


Seriously though, people will just complain about anything that thig game does. There are people who want more influence over their companions, who want their choices to matter ect... and then you get these same people complaining when something they think shouldnt be possible, is.

I dont know if you've complained about lack of influence or choices lacking wieght in this game TJP. Just using that as an example. People love to hate this game and they'll say a lot in order to do so.

Modifié par Anyroad2, 22 août 2011 - 01:22 .

[Anyroad2]

Sepewrath wrote...

I thought the only way it was possible, was through a rivalry, though that always seemed backwards to me.

I've never Rivaled Anders, so I know thats not the case.

[TJPags]

Anyroad2 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Wait, what?  This is possible?  Templar/Chantry hating free the mages at all costs Anders will agree to help the Templars in the RoA???

If this is true, this game may just be the biggest POS ever.

Anders is also an Andrastian (even though he may not agree or belive everything that they say), if you recall. I don't really think that having him fight along side the templars with Hawke (a fellow mage) is that big of a stretch if you do things right.

By reading this thread, it seems that this is a pretty complicated and rare result.


Like I said, you as a fellow mage, basically agree to help the templars because of the innocent citizens and you can be a strong voice of reason during the Anullment (I know that I was able to spare a group of mages, think it happens right as you enter the Circle proper), sparing the mages who don't give into Blood Magic.


Seriously though, people will just complain about anything that thig game does. There are people who want more influence over their companions, who want their choices to matter ect... and then you get these same people complaining when something they think shouldnt be possible, is.

It makes no sense at all, to me.

Anders is Andrastian, true, yet he has no problem destroying the Kirkwall Chantry, and all inside it, in order to further his agenda, which is freedom for mages.

And then, for some reason, he's going to help the Templars he despises kill all the mages he loves?

For what earthly reason would this make any sense?

[Anyroad2]

I never got the feeling that Anders wanted to do what he did, but that he had to because it was the only way that something would change. He mentions this when he and Orsino speak.

By joining the Templars Anders is agreeing to aid Hawke in restoring order to Kirkwall. Knowing that Hawke is a mage, he might have faith that he/she will do their best to make sure that innocent mages are spared. It turns out that a ton of mages fall prey to demons no matter which side you choose to support.

Anyway.

I think it can make sense. Just gotta mess with dialog options (probably through the entire game, I dont know) until you get it. I think I got lucky. I'll have to try to duplicate this scenario soon.

[TJPags]

And if Hawke isn't a mage? Does it still make as much sense to you?

Because I have to admit - it makes zero sense to me.

At all.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

TJPags wrote...


It makes no sense at all, to me.

Anders is Andrastian, true, yet he has no problem destroying the Kirkwall Chantry, and all inside it, in order to further his agenda, which is freedom for mages.

And then, for some reason, he's going to help the Templars he despises kill all the mages he loves?

For what earthly reason would this make any sense?

yep, my thoughts exactly. It's so OOC, and I personally would have rather this option be unavailable. Just like it is impossible to get Alistair to stick around or even react rationally to sparing Loghain. it's a crisis point that all good character's have: a line or boundary that, no matter how much they love or like you, they simply will not, for any reason, cross.

[Anyroad2]

TJPags wrote...

And if Hawke isn't a mage? Does it still make as much sense to you?

Because I have to admit - it makes zero sense to me.

At all.

If Hawke isnt a mage, but still was pro-mage through the game? 

It might. I dont know though. XD
I've only ever romanced Anders on my Female Mage Hawke. It just happend that it was a frienship based one (because before the end of Act 3, there was no reason to help the templars). I'd have to try to get Anders to fight with the Templars with a non-mage Hawke before I can really answer. I dont know what, if any, special dialog options there were bases soley on being a mage.

[Xalen]

Jeez, how many times can you beat one dead horse?

You can't get him to "side with templars" on friendship path, mage or not. If you have, it's a bug.
On rivalry it makes perfect sense.

Modifié par Xalen, 22 août 2011 - 02:07 .

[Monica21]

TJPags wrote...
It makes no sense at all, to me.

Anders is Andrastian, true, yet he has no problem destroying the Kirkwall Chantry, and all inside it, in order to further his agenda, which is freedom for mages.

And then, for some reason, he's going to help the Templars he despises kill all the mages he loves?

For what earthly reason would this make any sense?

An Andrastian doesn't have to agree with what the Chantry teaches. That's like saying there can only be one kind of Christian. His disagreement lies specifically with the way the mages are treated by the Templars and the Chantry by extension. I don't recall any specific discussion about religion with him, but he may likely have heretical beliefs, just like much of what Leliana believes is heretical.

I don't know how the conversation goes where he'll agree to help the Templars, but the scenario doesn't sound that far-fetched. Difficult to achieve, yes, but not impossible.

Modifié par Monica21, 22 août 2011 - 02:13 .

[Anyroad2]

Xalen wrote...

Jeez, how many times can you beat one dead horse?

You can't get him to "side with templars" on friendship path, mage or not. If you have, it's a bug.
On rivalry it makes perfect sense.

You can actually.

I'm sure that nothing can change your mind, but I thought I'd defend my honesty nonetheless.

[TJPags]

Monica21 wrote...

TJPags wrote...
It makes no sense at all, to me.

Anders is Andrastian, true, yet he has no problem destroying the Kirkwall Chantry, and all inside it, in order to further his agenda, which is freedom for mages.

And then, for some reason, he's going to help the Templars he despises kill all the mages he loves?

For what earthly reason would this make any sense?

An Andrastian doesn't have to agree with what the Chantry teaches. That's like saying there can only be one kind of Christian. His disagreement lies specifically with the way the mages are treated by the Templars and the Chantry by extension. I don't recall any specific discussion about religion with him, but he may likely have heretical beliefs, just like much of what Leliana believes is heretical.

I don't know how the conversation goes where he'll agree to help the Templars, but the scenario doesn't sound that far-fetched. Difficult to achieve, yes, but not impossible.

See, here's the part that makes no sense - the part you highlighted.

Why would a man who is so opposed to how mages are treated EVER help Templars - particularly THESE Templars - slaughter an entire Circle full of them?

[Monica21]

TJPags wrote...
See, here's the part that makes no sense - the part you highlighted.

Why would a man who is so opposed to how mages are treated EVER help Templars - particularly THESE Templars - slaughter an entire Circle full of them?

I'd like to see a video of the actual conversation and not where he gets off the boat at the Gallows, but it sounds a bit like emotionally blackmailing an already messed up Anders.

"Justice sucks and made you do this horrible thing."
"Yeah."
"Now lets go kill some mages."
"Okay."

[TJPags]

Ahhh, take advantage of the emotional cripple . . . .well, I guess that can work.

Not so much him agreeing as him being the equivelant of a tranquil, though.

[Monica21]

 Now I kinda want to rivalmance him to see if I can do it. Except he can be so tiresome. <_<

[Anyroad2]

TJPags wrote...

See, here's the part that makes no sense - the part you highlighted.

Why would a man who is so opposed to how mages are treated EVER help Templars - particularly THESE Templars - slaughter an entire Circle full of them?

There are plenty of instances in the game, where you can 1.) Choose an option that basically says "Theres gotta be a better way.". I know for sure that you get that option when speaking to Cullen. 2.) Where mages do pretty horrible things. Gascard and Quentin (responsible for Leandras death), the Tevinters, Idunna, Tarohne, Decimus, Grace, two of the three mages you have to hunt down in act 3, ect

Its perfectly reasonable that Anders might start to see that maybe mages shouldn't have the total freedom from the templars that he previously wanted. That a Mage Hawke working with the Templars may be the best chance that mages have at being shown mercy (like you can with Alain).

Modifié par Anyroad2, 22 août 2011 - 02:42 .

[Monica21]

Anyroad2 wrote...
Its perfectly reasonable that Anders might start to see that maybe mages shouldn't have the total freedom from the templars. That a Mage Hawke working with the Templars may be the best chance that mages have at being shown mercy (like you can with Alain).

Now that you say this, I can see Anders believing that he shouldn't have the freedom that he has. If he'd been under Circle control he wouldn't have ever been allowed to take in Justice, which means that all the subsequent events never would have happened.