Really a fun tileset to work with. I look forward to you adding back in some of the NWN2 groups. Especially that little house with the courtyard, well all the little houses and inns were great. keep up the good work. I just merged it into my pw haks and will update as you release them.
Medieval City
Débuté par
Zwerkules
, mars 25 2011 09:44
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#102
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:38
s e n
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spotted a few bug flying around, bash em! (i made a post a on the previous page with all of them) man this is a piece of art, love it!!!
Modifié par s e n, 10 juillet 2011 - 11:03 .
#103
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 04:18
Failed.Bard
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16x16 city, crammed with multi-levelled buildings, 150m fog clip distance (just for the screenie purposes), and standard winter clear skybox. 15 fps day, 10 fps night, which isn't bad for the viewing distance set as far as it is on an older ati 2400HD card.
It's a nice enough set you could quite easily make an entire adventure with only one exterior map, with the rest of it exploring all those packed together multi-levelled interiors.
It's a nice enough set you could quite easily make an entire adventure with only one exterior map, with the rest of it exploring all those packed together multi-levelled interiors.
#104
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 10:42
Zwerkules
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Thank you for the bug reports Sen. The edge tiles were a last minute addition before I uploaded the hak and went to bed. It's no wonder most of the bugs have to do with the edge tiles.
Failed.Bard, those are some nice screenshots. I see you used the 'too big' tower. When I finished that one and saw it next to the other towers, I felt that it looked out off scale, so I made it a feature. That way it wouldn't appear when you placed city walls, but it was still there for those who wanted to use it.
When there are no smaller towers near it, it doesn't look too big.
There's a walled off area in the corner of your city and I see no stairs or ladders leading down there, so it seems to be unaccessable. Did you do that on purpose? Are there some special tiles you need to make it accessable? I haven't finished the tower features for straight walls yet. Those will have doors on ground level.
Even with the TNO tileset I only made city areas that were 8x8 in size, because to populate a 16x16 area you'll need a lot of NPCs. With a tileset which has more polygons than TNO, builders should keep their areas smaller than 16x16. I use 8x8 areas or at the most 10x10 if I need some trees or cliffs outside the city walls.
Failed.Bard, those are some nice screenshots. I see you used the 'too big' tower. When I finished that one and saw it next to the other towers, I felt that it looked out off scale, so I made it a feature. That way it wouldn't appear when you placed city walls, but it was still there for those who wanted to use it.
When there are no smaller towers near it, it doesn't look too big.
There's a walled off area in the corner of your city and I see no stairs or ladders leading down there, so it seems to be unaccessable. Did you do that on purpose? Are there some special tiles you need to make it accessable? I haven't finished the tower features for straight walls yet. Those will have doors on ground level.
Even with the TNO tileset I only made city areas that were 8x8 in size, because to populate a 16x16 area you'll need a lot of NPCs. With a tileset which has more polygons than TNO, builders should keep their areas smaller than 16x16. I use 8x8 areas or at the most 10x10 if I need some trees or cliffs outside the city walls.
#105
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 11:41
Failed.Bard
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I'd envisioned the city as being surrounded by salt water, so that walled off area in the corner just has water in it, the city's reservoir, so to speak. Mostly I was just playing around to try to see all the different variant houses you'd put in as they spanned levels.
One thing I did notice, is that I get a good second to two of lag in the toolset when I select "Willow near river" or "Willow near water", though I didn't notice that sort of lag from them in game. Any idea what might be the cause of that?
One thing I did notice, is that I get a good second to two of lag in the toolset when I select "Willow near river" or "Willow near water", though I didn't notice that sort of lag from them in game. Any idea what might be the cause of that?
#106
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 01:24
Zwerkules
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The willows are retextured versions of those from the TNO tileset. The ones in the TNO tileset take that long to load, too. For me all the tno trees take very long to load, be it in the toolset or in the NW-Explorer.
I made those willow tiles features because otherwise drawing rivers or placing water terrain would have been too slow.
In game they work fine. The tile that still causes a steep drop in frame rate is the forest exit from the bioware tileset. It doesn't make a whole area slow, but the frame rate drops when you get near it. I'll take a closer look at that tile and see what could be the cause for the frame rate drops.
I made those willow tiles features because otherwise drawing rivers or placing water terrain would have been too slow.
In game they work fine. The tile that still causes a steep drop in frame rate is the forest exit from the bioware tileset. It doesn't make a whole area slow, but the frame rate drops when you get near it. I'll take a closer look at that tile and see what could be the cause for the frame rate drops.
#107
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 02:06
Zwerkules
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I found the cause for the frame rate drop. For my trees terrain I used the trees made by Helvene, because they look much better than the Bioware trees. However her foliage meshes sometimes have over 10000 unwelded tverts per tile. For that forest exit tile there were two foliage meshes with over 6000 tverts each which after welding the tverts only had about 400 each. I'll have to check all the trees to see if they all have that problem.
I guess I can halve the size of some the tree terrain tiles. That will not only speed up loading and improve performance, it will also make the hak smaller.
Edit: Only four more of the tree terrain tiles were as bad as the forest exit, but for some the filesize went down to 85 kb from 181 kb. The unpacked hak is now one MB smaller.
Possibly the worst thing was that the tile that had the most unwelded tverts was the forest edge tile. Walking towards an area edge with tree terrain should go a lot smoother now.
Sen, many thanks for reporting the bugs. I fixed them now. Tell me if you find more!
I guess I can halve the size of some the tree terrain tiles. That will not only speed up loading and improve performance, it will also make the hak smaller.
Edit: Only four more of the tree terrain tiles were as bad as the forest exit, but for some the filesize went down to 85 kb from 181 kb. The unpacked hak is now one MB smaller.
Possibly the worst thing was that the tile that had the most unwelded tverts was the forest edge tile. Walking towards an area edge with tree terrain should go a lot smoother now.
Sen, many thanks for reporting the bugs. I fixed them now. Tell me if you find more!
Modifié par Zwerkules, 05 septembre 2011 - 08:59 .
#108
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 05:49
s e n
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sure do! If i can suggest you a few things, id say:
-non-lighten (day night animations) tile variations of buildings
-ruined tile variations of buildings and raiselower walls
-change the roof red brick texture with something else (this is really just my taste telling that, i just dont like red brick roofs)
-raise lower for grass and a middlelayer terrain for both grass and cobble/buildings (this huge implemention)
-overridding hak for texture seasonal switch similar to the one i made for trinity
congraturations i think this is the new standard of city tileset, already as it is its just unbelievable!!!
-non-lighten (day night animations) tile variations of buildings
-ruined tile variations of buildings and raiselower walls
-change the roof red brick texture with something else (this is really just my taste telling that, i just dont like red brick roofs)
-raise lower for grass and a middlelayer terrain for both grass and cobble/buildings (this huge implemention)
-overridding hak for texture seasonal switch similar to the one i made for trinity
congraturations i think this is the new standard of city tileset, already as it is its just unbelievable!!!
#109
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 02:08
henesua
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In response to Sen's comments: I like the terracotta colored tiles. Perhaps some slate could look good (varieties range from greenish to bluish to grey/black and moss often grows in the cracks), but I like the color that your roofs add to this tileset. I think going to low saturation greys and tans would deaden the look of everything. I really like your look and color palette and hope that Sen's comments don't discourage you from colorful roofs.
#110
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 09:10
_six
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Well the red tiled roofs fit in well with the really strong central European feel of the tileset (actually, specifically its medieval Nuremberg that stuff like the walls reminds me of). If I was going for more of a British or celtic influenced setting, I probably wouldn't use this tileset to begin with. But I'm extra picky, having plenty of medieval British towns not far away from me.
My only complaint with the tileset at present is actually a lack of variation in colour. There's not really any strong contrasting textures, so the fact they're all at such close values makes them kind of drab. That might well be intentional, and it works really well for a small backwater town, but for a large city I reckon a little bit more vibrance might help it feel inhabited.
Still, very much like what's being done here.
My only complaint with the tileset at present is actually a lack of variation in colour. There's not really any strong contrasting textures, so the fact they're all at such close values makes them kind of drab. That might well be intentional, and it works really well for a small backwater town, but for a large city I reckon a little bit more vibrance might help it feel inhabited.
Still, very much like what's being done here.
#111
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 04:21
Zwerkules
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Sen, the red tiled roofs are authentic. The walls are loosly based on the walls of Rothenburg and some of the towers that I am still working on are based on towers of the wall of Osnabrück.
All the towers of those walls have red tiled roofs. As have those of the towers of Nuremberg which Six mentioned (which I have never seen, so I just googled them. When looking for those pictures of the medieval townwalls a few minutes ago, I also found a picture of a part of the townwall of Tallinn in Estonia which looks even more like the townwall I built than the townwall of Rothenburg .
As for your other suggestions,
I'll make a house which has no day/night animations at all, but will use the three animloops instead. One for the chimney smoke, one for half the windows and one for the other half.
So if you turn on an animloop for the windows, they'll always be lit, even during daytime. If the light at daytime is hardly noticeable, I will probably remove all the day/night animations from the houses and use animloops instead. Then I don't need any additional houses. People who want windows that are lit at night can turn on the animloops and people who don't want them can turn them off. That might even improve performance on older computers a bit.
Ruined buildings and walls:
I can and probably will add those, but only after I added everything else I planned. Alleys and castle terrain have a higher priority for me.
Raise lower for grass and a middlelayer terrain for both grass and cobble/buildings:
I already have raise/lower and a middle layer terrain for my other tileset, so adding that would hardly be any work at all, but I'll see how big this tileset grows and if it already has lots of tiles for a city, I won't add any more rural tiles. I don't want this to become too big.
The rural tileset will probably a separate one.
As for a middlelayer terrain for the cobble and building terrain, that's not going to happen, because as you said it would be a huge implementation.
I once saw a list someone made about combining terrains and which and how many tiles are needed for it. I know I saw it when looking for something totally unrelated in the NWN Omnibus, but I can't find it again:P. I think he said you'd need 72 tiles for combining four terrains.
For the building and cobble terrain I could only think of 64 different tiles, so there may be some combinations that are not possible yet.
The lists were for terrains without a raise/lower option. So if you take two terrains which can be raised, it is the same as four terrains that can't be raised. If I'd add a middlelayer to those terrains that already need 72 tiles (without any variations), I'd probably need well over 100 new tiles. That's a quarter of everything I've made for this tileset so far.
Since the rivers and alley crossers will also work on building and raised building terrain, I'd have to make those work for the middle layer terrain as well, which would mean I'd have to add dozens of tiles more.
So if I ever plan on finishing this tileset, I'll have to forego a middle layer terrain.
Overridding hak for texture seasonal switch:
I want to make a winter version of this tileset, but a simple override of textures won't do. I want to add icicles and thick snow in the corners of the alleys. So it will have to be a separate tileset.
All the towers of those walls have red tiled roofs. As have those of the towers of Nuremberg which Six mentioned (which I have never seen, so I just googled them
. When looking for those pictures of the medieval townwalls a few minutes ago, I also found a picture of a part of the townwall of Tallinn in Estonia which looks even more like the townwall I built than the townwall of Rothenburg .As for your other suggestions,
I'll make a house which has no day/night animations at all, but will use the three animloops instead. One for the chimney smoke, one for half the windows and one for the other half.
So if you turn on an animloop for the windows, they'll always be lit, even during daytime. If the light at daytime is hardly noticeable, I will probably remove all the day/night animations from the houses and use animloops instead. Then I don't need any additional houses. People who want windows that are lit at night can turn on the animloops and people who don't want them can turn them off. That might even improve performance on older computers a bit.
Ruined buildings and walls:
I can and probably will add those, but only after I added everything else I planned. Alleys and castle terrain have a higher priority for me.
Raise lower for grass and a middlelayer terrain for both grass and cobble/buildings:
I already have raise/lower and a middle layer terrain for my other tileset, so adding that would hardly be any work at all, but I'll see how big this tileset grows and if it already has lots of tiles for a city, I won't add any more rural tiles. I don't want this to become too big.
The rural tileset will probably a separate one.
As for a middlelayer terrain for the cobble and building terrain, that's not going to happen, because as you said it would be a huge implementation.
I once saw a list someone made about combining terrains and which and how many tiles are needed for it. I know I saw it when looking for something totally unrelated in the NWN Omnibus, but I can't find it again:P. I think he said you'd need 72 tiles for combining four terrains.
For the building and cobble terrain I could only think of 64 different tiles, so there may be some combinations that are not possible yet.
The lists were for terrains without a raise/lower option. So if you take two terrains which can be raised, it is the same as four terrains that can't be raised. If I'd add a middlelayer to those terrains that already need 72 tiles (without any variations), I'd probably need well over 100 new tiles. That's a quarter of everything I've made for this tileset so far.
Since the rivers and alley crossers will also work on building and raised building terrain, I'd have to make those work for the middle layer terrain as well, which would mean I'd have to add dozens of tiles more.
So if I ever plan on finishing this tileset, I'll have to forego a middle layer terrain.
Overridding hak for texture seasonal switch:
I want to make a winter version of this tileset, but a simple override of textures won't do. I want to add icicles and thick snow in the corners of the alleys. So it will have to be a separate tileset.
Modifié par Zwerkules, 12 juillet 2011 - 04:26 .
#112
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 06:37
s e n
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Zwerkules wrote...
I want to add icicles and thick snow in the corners of the alleys. So it will have to be a separate tileset.
in seasonal trinity i made a winter hak that cointains textures as well as tile override if needed: for example i have a frozen water terrain (namely ice) that is walkable in winter, but is not walkable, and with the appearance of water tiles on other seasons. ivy and marcescent tree leafs go away just using alpha channeled textures, and with the same alpha channel trick to have textures appear/disappear i added snow mounds on the roofs that appear just in winter time. grass disappears just by adding a set version in winter hak with grass turned off
im trying to convince admins of our pw to add your tileset but without at least a winter override that will not happen
(((
#113
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 10:35
_six
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Incidentally, how about a covered bridge like... 
Could have a version walkable underneath that crossed the cobble (from building to building), and a version over water that is walkable on the inside).
Could have a version walkable underneath that crossed the cobble (from building to building), and a version over water that is walkable on the inside).
#114
Posté 15 juillet 2011 - 09:17
Raven_Xantrice
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Important is a castle or fort I think... but six idea is very nice! Zwerkules: Great Tileset!
#115
Posté 16 juillet 2011 - 09:17
Mdarkbyte
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A walk through a small area build with this amazing tileset, please condone the bad quality, it took me 2,5 hours to upload . If i havent changed the size down it would have take forever 
Heres the file to watch: Medieval Tileset on youtube enjoy
Heres the file to watch: Medieval Tileset on youtube enjoy
#116
Posté 21 juillet 2011 - 09:08
Zwerkules
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Six, that bridge is a good idea. I was already working on an uncovered bridge which looks similar to this one. It is part of a small fortress at the corner of a city. I'll make a covered version of the bridge, too.
Mdarkbyte, that was a very nice vid.
I finished a few towers for straight parts of the townwall, one with a gate. Now I can make the town walls that have grass on one side. I will also add a few that have trees on one side, but none with water, because there would just be too many tiles needed to make this crosser work between four different terrain types.
I fixed the bugs Sen reported and added a number of trees terrain tiles next to water terrain and cobble terrain. Some tiles with trees/water terrain were already there, but a few were still missing to make placing trees next to water possible in every way.
I started changing the grass tiles that I took from the Bioware rural tileset that have rocks. Those rocks all have flat tops, which looks unnatural. I'll also add more grass tiles that aren't flat.
Mdarkbyte, that was a very nice vid.
I finished a few towers for straight parts of the townwall, one with a gate. Now I can make the town walls that have grass on one side. I will also add a few that have trees on one side, but none with water, because there would just be too many tiles needed to make this crosser work between four different terrain types.
I fixed the bugs Sen reported and added a number of trees terrain tiles next to water terrain and cobble terrain. Some tiles with trees/water terrain were already there, but a few were still missing to make placing trees next to water possible in every way.
I started changing the grass tiles that I took from the Bioware rural tileset that have rocks. Those rocks all have flat tops, which looks unnatural. I'll also add more grass tiles that aren't flat.
Modifié par Zwerkules, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:11 .
#117
Posté 22 juillet 2011 - 09:31
henesua
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Looking good, Zwerkules. I like the color of the soil profile. It suggests a base of lime stone and sand with the rich soil only at the surface. These naturalistic details that you add in are beautiful, and I do appreciate the amount of attention you give your creations.
#118
Posté 23 juillet 2011 - 01:30
Eagles Talon
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Let me start by saying WOW, I love this tile set.
A comment if I may: I find it hard to believe that in medieval times all the interiors of a city would be stone. Sure, certain rich areas might have cobble roads or patios, but all of it? Wow, who built it all, dwarves? How about some areas of the inside of the city with dirt or grass instead of cobbles? Just seems like it would be more natural. Just my 2 cents. Great work!
A comment if I may: I find it hard to believe that in medieval times all the interiors of a city would be stone. Sure, certain rich areas might have cobble roads or patios, but all of it? Wow, who built it all, dwarves? How about some areas of the inside of the city with dirt or grass instead of cobbles? Just seems like it would be more natural. Just my 2 cents. Great work!
#119
Posté 23 juillet 2011 - 01:58
henesua
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(1) "Medieval Times" aren't a single point of history with a focused character.
(2) Isn't this supposed to be fantasy and fun?
(2) Isn't this supposed to be fantasy and fun?
#120
Posté 23 juillet 2011 - 02:00
Eagles Talon
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Yeah, It's not a biggie. But I just feel like I'm in New York or Boston with no nature around except a park in the middle of the city. Just seems too....blacktop. I know, I know, fun. But immersion is fun too. 
(Hey, it was only 2 cents)
(Hey, it was only 2 cents)
#121
Posté 23 juillet 2011 - 10:57
Wall3T
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i get what Eagles Talon means, and id agree about the lack of fauna and variety in the set (despite how amazes i am at the texture quality, nicely done btw!, but i think this was meant more for a "small town" feel and not a "mideival city" feel/
i wont put any two cents about requesting more fauna or any variety as i pesronaly like how it is, as is and i know that they will eventualy be put in sometime or another... i can be paitient... for now
i wont put any two cents about requesting more fauna or any variety as i pesronaly like how it is, as is and i know that they will eventualy be put in sometime or another... i can be paitient... for now
#122
Posté 23 juillet 2011 - 05:29
DM_Vecna
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I have to agree with the ground texture. I really enjoyed the dirt that was included with the first release. It separated the set from the other city tilesets out there.and yes I am such a fan of this work Zerk!
#123
Posté 23 juillet 2011 - 06:02
_six
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When you do the wall between cobble and grass, any chance of having the outer wall having the balcony bricked up with arrow slits? The balcony on both sides approach doesn't really give the impression of strong fortification.
#124
Posté 23 juillet 2011 - 07:05
Zwerkules
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@Six: I started with making the corners and then making every variation of them first before making the other types of tiles needed. I still haven't made the 'end of the townwall' tiles yet and without them I can't test the tiles in game, so I don't have any screenshots, but the outer wall does have the balcony bricked up and it has something like a mixture between a window and an arrow slit. I had to add a wooden frame because it didn't look good without them.
I have a lot of the work on those walls finished, but I'll have to edit all the walkmeshes again, because the way they are now I think if you place an archer up there he'll be able to fire through the walls.
@Eagles Talon: You can place grass terrain inside the city, there are just no houses for the grass terrain yet. As you can see with the house groups I have made, there are houses sourrounded by grass and most of the upcoming groups will be on grass or dirt.
The cobbles terrain only uses one tile for ground with nothing on it, because some people don't like grass patches and dirt or puddles on the cobbles. The tiles are there, but they are features and the builders have to add them themselves.
There will be more flora added later, but none of it will appear automatically. It will all be in groups or features, so it is up to the builders if they want them or not.
And the fauna will have to be added by the builders too, I've never made a creature.
I have a lot of the work on those walls finished, but I'll have to edit all the walkmeshes again, because the way they are now I think if you place an archer up there he'll be able to fire through the walls.
@Eagles Talon: You can place grass terrain inside the city, there are just no houses for the grass terrain yet. As you can see with the house groups I have made, there are houses sourrounded by grass and most of the upcoming groups will be on grass or dirt.
The cobbles terrain only uses one tile for ground with nothing on it, because some people don't like grass patches and dirt or puddles on the cobbles. The tiles are there, but they are features and the builders have to add them themselves.
There will be more flora added later, but none of it will appear automatically. It will all be in groups or features, so it is up to the builders if they want them or not.
And the fauna will have to be added by the builders too, I've never made a creature.
#125
Posté 27 juillet 2011 - 03:15
Wall3T
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i overheard (read?) Zwerkules mentioning about making a snow tilest version of this someday, and remembered that one of the first towns i made with this set was in fact... a snow village lol
so im posting a few pics for everyone to see it, but i sorta didnt stick true to the actual tileset im using the Gothic Placeables, to make up for a few missing items, but i thought to share it with everyone here:
so im posting a few pics for everyone to see it, but i sorta didnt stick true to the actual tileset
im using the Gothic Placeables, to make up for a few missing items, but i thought to share it with everyone here:
Modifié par oOKyeOo, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:17 .
