32 réponses à ce sujet

[loudent3]

In the end of Act 1 where you find the Primeval Thaig, everyone acts all surprised. There are no histories or memories of this place and nothing seems to make sense.

But that's not true, we know exactly what this is. It's the sealed Thaig of the Valdasine house. Once the greatest suppliers of Lyrium in the world. They sealed up their Thaig for a while and days later when the seals dropped the other dwarves came in found no one alive, nor any bodies and no information about what happened. All they found was a staff made of strange metal (that appeared to be lyrium like). The king ordered the Thaig sealed leaving the staff within.

It is that Thaig we find (although the histories don't say anything about the lyrium idol).

How do I know this? Because it says so in the codex when you find the staff (look it up under Items->Valdasine.

So, what gives?

[Elessara]

Just because you find the staff named Valdasine doesn't mean the primeval thaig is the one mentioned in the staff's codex entry. Likely the staff was there because some unlucky adventurer or dwarf died there when he had the staff.

[Pinely]

They're not one and the same. The Primeval Thaig isn't in the memories of the shaperate, it predates them. Valdasine being located there is likely the result of some poor scavenger finding it and then meeting his end inside the Primeval Thaig.

[LobselVith8]

Have the devs explained the presence of golems in a thaig that is supposed to predate Caridin?

[loudent3]

Pinely wrote...

They're not one and the same. The Primeval Thaig isn't in the memories of the shaperate, it predates them. Valdasine being located there is likely the result of some poor scavenger finding it and then meeting his end inside the Primeval Thaig.

Ok, I just want to make sure I understand you're theory....

Some intrepid adventurer found the lost Valdasine thaig and looted it. Perhaps keeping the staff, perhaps selling it. At any rate, a person holding the staff makes his way to the primeval thaig, past all the Profate, past the ancient rock-wraith and the demon, then carefully puts the staff in a chest and leaves it there before either dieing or wandering off.

That's the theory we're going to go with rather than the much simpler theories that A) it's the Valdasine Thaig and the NPCs are just confused ,or the Devs messed up and put the staff there and didn't realize that it doesn't make sense being

[Dangerfoot]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Have the devs explained the presence of golems in a thaig that is supposed to predate Caridin?

Do they explain why mages and demons summon waves of abominations without turning mages? Common sense must be momentarily ignored while they give you 50 random mage related models to fight.

[Helen0rz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Have the devs explained the presence of golems in a thaig that is supposed to predate Caridin?

I wondered that too...

[brushyourteeth]

Dangerfoot wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Have the devs explained the presence of golems in a thaig that is supposed to predate Caridin?

Do they explain why mages and demons summon waves of abominations without turning mages? Common sense must be momentarily ignored while they give you 50 random mage related models to fight.

Those are both excellent burns.

No way for me to explain the golems, but I figured the thaig was one of a few that the elves fled to from Arlathan (info gathered from the Witch Hunt DLC).  Elven mages = Veil tear, blood magic = corrupted red viney lyrium?

okay, it's pretty far out there, but that's the best I've got.

[TJPags]

Dangerfoot wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Have the devs explained the presence of golems in a thaig that is supposed to predate Caridin?

Do they explain why mages and demons summon waves of abominations without turning mages? Common sense must be momentarily ignored while they give you 50 random mage related models to fight.

Lore is consistent when its convenient.

When it's not convenient, its made up of rumor.

So, no, they don't explain it.  And likely never will.

[Tamahome560]

TJPags wrote...

Dangerfoot wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Have the devs explained the presence of golems in a thaig that is supposed to predate Caridin?

Do they explain why mages and demons summon waves of abominations without turning mages? Common sense must be momentarily ignored while they give you 50 random mage related models to fight.

Lore is consistent when its convenient.

When it's not convenient, its made up of rumor.

So, no, they don't explain it.  And likely never will.

Since the whole Thaig is filled with magic and even pre-dates the first recorded Thaig in the Memories than it does not really contradict or retcon the Lore.

[TJPags]

Tamahome560 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Dangerfoot wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Have the devs explained the presence of golems in a thaig that is supposed to predate Caridin?

Do they explain why mages and demons summon waves of abominations without turning mages? Common sense must be momentarily ignored while they give you 50 random mage related models to fight.

Lore is consistent when its convenient.

When it's not convenient, its made up of rumor.

So, no, they don't explain it.  And likely never will.

Since the whole Thaig is filled with magic and even pre-dates the first recorded Thaig in the Memories than it does not really contradict or retcon the Lore.

So, Carridin didn't invent golems?

Abominations aren't mages possessed by a demon, they are a creature summoned by blood mages?

[Beerfish]

Who says Caradin invented golems in the 1st place? Like many guys credited with inventing something or coming up with an idea often that idea or invention can be traced further back.

Perhaps the staff was a relic lost at one point in time and quested to be retrieved by some paragon or other to return it to it's rightful place years and years ago? Perhaps the darkspawn took it?

[TJPags]

Umm, DAO says Caradin invented golems.

CARRADIN says Carradin invented golems.

Or, the Anvil of the Void, which is what makes golems, and is the same thing, to me.

[Tamahome560]

TJPags wrote...

Umm, DAO says Caradin invented golems.

CARRADIN says Carradin invented golems.

Or, the Anvil of the Void, which is what makes golems, and is the same thing, to me.

Dwarves had no knowledge about the Primeval Thaig. It nothing but a made up story. Caridin has invented the golems ... as far as the recorded history reaches. There is no records of Primeval Thaig. They obviously had a way to make them but no one knows in the current time because there are no records. So it is correct to say that Caridin re-invented the Golems. He had no prior knowledge about them so it was his invention as far as the Memories are concerned but obviously in some ancient times Dwarves of the Primeval Thaig must have had the knowledge to make them. But for the modern Dwarves and recorded history the first occurance of Golems was due to Caridin invention.

Modifié par Tamahome560, 26 mars 2011 - 02:55 .

[brushyourteeth]

We should activate the golems and ask them.

[Lekwid]

brushyourteeth wrote...

We should activate the golems and ask them.

But they keep attacking me when I activate them!

[PlumPaul93]

Okay for those who really don't know by know the unwritten rule is:Don't question it accept it. There happy?

[Beerfish]

TJPags wrote...

Umm, DAO says Caradin invented golems.

CARRADIN says Carradin invented golems.

Or, the Anvil of the Void, which is what makes golems, and is the same thing, to me.

lol so?  Everything on the internet is accurate as well.  How did carridin start his research in the 1st place?

As I said before, history is full of people who have claimed to invented something or be the 1st to do something.  See Christopher Colmbus whom everyone assumed discoverd america.

Modifié par Beerfish, 26 mars 2011 - 03:10 .

[loudent3]

Beerfish wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Umm, DAO says Caradin invented golems.

CARRADIN says Carradin invented golems.

Or, the Anvil of the Void, which is what makes golems, and is the same thing, to me.

lol so?  Everything on the internet is accurate as well.  How did carridin start his research in the 1st place?

Really? do you believe that there is some master DA lore keeper who already decided that Carradin really didn't invent the golems first and that there is this whole story about how the people from the primeval Thaig did it first? Do you really believe that? I mean, it's painfully obvious that they cut some corners to rush the game (they said so in an interview although the words they used was "Capitolize on DA:Os succes"), and when faced with having to put some monsters in the Thaig they figured instead of creating whole new textures and animations they could just throw some golems in there and didn't really care one way or another about the lore issue.

I'm not knocking the decision, it is what it is, but lets not pretend there is some secret lore that allowed it.

[The Angry One]

Weren't the golems made to fight the Darkspawn?
Doesn't the thaig predate the Darkspawn also?

[TJPags]

I am constantly amazed by the way people can justify the lore of the game being wrong with some variation of "well, the lore isn't all-knowing and can be wrong".

A world was created. A history and rules for that world were created. When that history and those rules are seeingly changed in midstream, it's a convenient excuse to say "well, the person who wrote the codex entry was mistaken/didn't know all the facts".

However, IMO, unless there's a clear plot reason for that to be the case, it's nothing more than the fact that the creators either changed their minds, forgot the history/rules that they themselves created, or wrote themselves into a corner and didn't care. None of which is the mark of quality work, IMO.

[Maria Caliban]

1. The reused the golems instead of making new, deep roads/thaig creatures.

2. I don't believe that thaig was intended to be Valdasine Thaig. Did someone come up with a backstory as how that staff got in that pile of treasure? Probably not. It's a magic staff they stuck there as treasure and then decided to give a mysterious codex entry to.

[Thrennion]

 Valdasine wasn't a thaig! If I'm recalling the lore correctly, it only says House Valdasine. Not Valdasine Thaig.

How did the staff get into the Primeval Thaig? That's the real question. Like a previous poster said, it could well be that Caridin invented golems like Thomas Edison "invented" the light bulb.

[NvVanity]

My guesses are,

1. During the First Blight back when the Dwarves had armies of Golems some of them were scattered during the chaos and ended up in the Primeval Thaig.

2. Caradin might not have invented them but rediscovered how to make them.

3. Bartrand mentioned the Thaig from "old scavenger tales". It would be pretty convenient for a scavenger to find some control rods and have them follow him towards the Thaig for protection.

[Nerdage]

Well there's a control rod down there as well, meaning who ever controled the golems may have died down there, so the golems could have ended up where they were the same way Shale did before Wilhelm found it.

As for the idea of the Lore being infallible, do we know why there are elven relics underground in human ruins in the Dalish DAO origin? Or during nature of the Beast? There are holes in the lore, and they're not all accidents, whether this is or not we'll just have to wait and see (unless one of the writers comes in and comments).