101 réponses à ce sujet

[PavelNovotny]

Even though I bought DA2 when it was released (Signature Edition - being a fanboy), I waited a couple weeks before playing it. I read a lot of the posts and was worried that the game was going to be a disappointment because of all the negativity about the new combat, the new dialog wheel, the romance choices (gay male ones - those are the only ones I care about), etc.

I didn't like Anders in Awakenings - thought he was a dork (Nathaniel Howe was much more interesting), so I wasn't looking forward to romancing him, and I didn't think Fenris was very attractive. I had already romanced Zevran as a Grey Warden, so the thought of dealing with another bisexual elf wasn't very exciting even though I like to play as an elf mage usually. Don't get me wrong - I liked Zevran a lot - I would never want to romance Alistair (his personality was fine for friends, but too annoying as lovers).

I just finished the game today, and I have to say that the gay Fenris romance was wonderful. I think it's the best gay romance I have ever seen in a western game, and I believe I have played every single one in existence starting from when Fallout 2 let you marry the farmer's son.

The ONLY complaint I have about Fenris is that he waited THREE YEARS to talk about the night we had sex. Come on, who waits that long without saying something. There really should have been some dialog before the end of Act 2 that says he wants to put things on hold or something.

Here is what made me love Fenris:

1. Great voice and dialog. The broodiness was perfect. Also, the dialog made it seem like he was gay all along, not another bisexual elf. I know there has been a lot of discussion about making romance dialog that works for both genders, but I did not see anything indicating that Fenris had ever been straight. I was convinced, and that was fine with me. Good job on that.

2. Wonderful banter. Once I started flirting with Fenris the companions all seemed to have something to say about it. And the banter all sounded like they were talking about a gay relationship, not a straight one. In fact, Isabella came off a lot like Fenris' **** hag (she drinks with him, plays cards with him, etc.). I was very impressed with the way this all came together and sounded like it was built for a gay relationship.

3. Fenris has very good character development. The non-romantic banter he has with the other companions - including Sebastien - is great. The comments he has during the cutscenes also work well. The difficulty in developing a relationship with him as a mage makes him more interesting.

I also loved the way Fenris tells Zevran to back off when he starts flirting with me.  :-)

The cool thing was that I actually became more and more interested in Fenris as the game went on. I grew to like him so much, that I felt horrible when I went back after I finished the game to see what happens if I give Fenris back to the Tevinters in the scene with his sister. I wanted to see if there was a line like "You shouldn't have waited three years before saying something about sleeping with me" so I played through that scene. I actually felt  dirty, like I had betrayed him. I had to go back and replay some of the good scenes to erase the memory of him being taken away with his head hanging down. Impressive for a game character to elicit that kind of emotional reaction.

I think this romance was a huge step forward and a big improvement over the gay romances we've seen in the past. Good work Bioware!

Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

Modifié par PavelNovotny, 26 mars 2011 - 03:49 .

[Silveryne]

Marrying the farmer's son in Fallout 2 was the worst choice I ever made.

You obviously thought this through a lot and have some cool critiques. I romanced Fenris as a lady, and came away immensely satisfied. I liked his romance much better than the Anders one (that feels a little hollow at the end for obvious reasons), so I'm with you all the way on this. It felt like a real romance overall. Very well written, very well done.

It's awesome to see some positive feedback on the forums about the gay aspect of the romances. There's been too many Negative Nancies about the gay romances in general.

And yeah! I totally agree that it was rude for Fenris to be dressed. He should have let us ogle his topless form some. > Maybe he was hiding those lyrium breasts (that don't actually exist) that he and Isabela talked about.

[David Gaider]

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

[merik3000]

Funnily enough I am very tempted to romance  Fenris even though I'm a straight guy as he is the most interesting character and flirting with him as a guy is ridiculously fun and coy.
His banter with the other party members is the best so far apart from Isabella with Aveline.
But kudos to bioware for making his character compelling enough for me to question my orientation even if it is only in a game as I've always remained a stickler for staying the same gender in video games as I am in real life. Well at least his romance won't make me feel like a traitor to my beliefs ( Merill: Supporting a naive girl play around with dangerous blood magic learnt from a demon she called nice:huh:.... I hate prideful ignorance or Letting a despicable slaver go just so Isabella can say she got the ship from him with cunning:bandit:... I hate slavers and people that enable them just so they can feel superior... Or helping a good man who is driven mad by a demon of rageful vengeance who murders innocents in the name of their  so called just cause<_<... I hate the willful ignorance and stupidity of terrorists who punish innocents for the crimes of others.) So fenris seems like the only romance option whose beliefs are even remotely close to mine as I love killing slavers and traitors. I guess I'm lucky he's a likable fellow with puppy eyes and a good sense of humor!

[merik3000]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

Maybe say he can phase in and out of his clothes which is handy a trick to have if you enjoy streaking...
But I'm probably right as his clothes don't seem to have zips or buttons

[Sharn01]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

Geebus, you need to get more time and a larger budget for the next game if they are going to limit you so badly, most of  the problems of DA2 would have been gone with another year in developement, 6 months may have even been enough.

[merik3000]

Sharn01 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

Geebus, you need to get more time and a larger budget for the next game if they are going to limit you so badly, most of  the problems of DA2 would have been gone with another year in developement, 6 months may have even been enough.

I wouldn't worry if your a pc player as the community of modders always do a nudity or partial nudity mod so I'm sure some modder who loves fenris is slaving away at this moment in time making him shirtless for thar scene!

[Malja]

merik3000 wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Geebus, you need to get more time and a larger budget for the next game if they are going to limit you so badly, most of  the problems of DA2 would have been gone with another year in developement, 6 months may have even been enough.

I wouldn't worry if your a pc player as the community of modders always do a nudity or partial nudity mod so I'm sure some modder who loves fenris is slaving away at this moment in time making him shirtless for thar scene!

Sad thing is how they perceive Fenris tattoos may be... too bizarre for some people.

[David Gaider]

Sharn01 wrote...
Geebus, you need to get more time and a larger budget for the next game if they are going to limit you so badly, most of  the problems of DA2 would have been gone with another year in developement, 6 months may have even been enough.

My experience says that is probably true for any project. Like goldfish, they tend to expand to the space allotted-- it's never an easy task to determine how much work something will take, and anyone who's ever worked on a mod knows how easy it is for scope creep to occur when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people on a project who simply want to keep adding stuff in to make it better. So, really, there's always a lack of time and resources to do everything you want.

[merik3000]

Malja wrote...

merik3000 wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Geebus, you need to get more time and a larger budget for the next game if they are going to limit you so badly, most of  the problems of DA2 would have been gone with another year in developement, 6 months may have even been enough.

I wouldn't worry if your a pc player as the community of modders always do a nudity or partial nudity mod so I'm sure some modder who loves fenris is slaving away at this moment in time making him shirtless for thar scene!

Sad thing is how they perceive Fenris tattoos may be... too bizarre for some people.

Maybe Isabella convinces him to get some lyrium breasts as was hinted in their banter about his tatoos... I think I know why the artists didn't want his chest seen now...

[PavelNovotny]

I think they were just talking about how much work it would be to make a tattooed body for Fenris that would only appear in that one scene. Of course, I would think that would be an excuse to create more shirtless scenes for Fenris.

"Well, we spent all that time making a shirtless body for Fenris, so we might as well give him more shirtless scenes. Maybe another love scene." :-)

Not to mention the possibility of using a shirtless Fenris body in the next chapter of Hawke's story....

Modifié par PavelNovotny, 26 mars 2011 - 04:36 .

[David Gaider]

PavelNovotny wrote...
"Well, we spent all that time making a shirtless body for Fenris, so we might as well give him more shirtless scenes. Maybe another love scene." :-)

Ha! Probably.

The original plan was actually to have Fenris shirtless all the time. I would have been okay with that, even if it did kind of make him look like he just came out of Lord of the Flies.

[Sharn01]

merik3000 wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

Geebus, you need to get more time and a larger budget for the next game if they are going to limit you so badly, most of  the problems of DA2 would have been gone with another year in developement, 6 months may have even been enough.

I wouldn't worry if your a pc player as the community of modders always do a nudity or partial nudity mod so I'm sure some modder who loves fenris is slaving away at this moment in time making him shirtless for thar scene!

I actually have no desire to see that, though I am sure many do.  I was speaking more in general terms, DA2 had such a solid foundation but came up short as a whole in almost every aspect.  There was so much room for improvement, by bioware standards of course, not compared to the average game.

Modifié par Sharn01, 26 mars 2011 - 04:38 .

[Alyka]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

That's too bad. Maybe next time, eh? *crosses fingers*

The scene in the foyer of your estate, when Fenris kisses you.....hawt!
I just might have to make a male Hawke and romance him.

Modifié par Alyka, 26 mars 2011 - 04:39 .

[Silveryne]

Please include Fenris in expansions wearing no shirt. He lost it in the war. (Edit: It's awesome that he was going to be shirtless all the time -- actually, wasn't it said that his tattoos show through any and all clothes? I was wondering about that...)

I actually kind of thought that he and Hawke (or just Hawke) fell asleep for a bit, and when Hawke got up, Fenris was considering leaving because of what happened. Instead it wasn't. Such little details of a game that the people who play it have no idea about.

Modifié par Silveryne, 26 mars 2011 - 04:40 .

[Pacifien]

David Gaider wrote...
The original plan was actually to have Fenris shirtless all the time. I would have been okay with that, even if it did kind of make him look like he just came out of Lord of the Flies.

BioWare, your insistence that Fenris wear a shirt upsets me, and you have lost my support.

[Malja]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
"Well, we spent all that time making a shirtless body for Fenris, so we might as well give him more shirtless scenes. Maybe another love scene." :-)

Ha! Probably.

The original plan was actually to have Fenris shirtless all the time. I would have been okay with that, even if it did kind of make him look like he just came out of Lord of the Flies.

Hahah really? What was the reasoning behind that? Not that I would've minded (infinitely curious about those tattoos) but I'm not sure I can see him walking around shirtless.

[Thibbledorf26]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
"Well, we spent all that time making a shirtless body for Fenris, so we might as well give him more shirtless scenes. Maybe another love scene." :-)

Ha! Probably.

The original plan was actually to have Fenris shirtless all the time. I would have been okay with that, even if it did kind of make him look like he just came out of Lord of the Flies.

I can only imagine the amount of squeeing that would cause!

[Sharn01]

Thibbledorf26 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
"Well, we spent all that time making a shirtless body for Fenris, so we might as well give him more shirtless scenes. Maybe another love scene." :-)

Ha! Probably.

The original plan was actually to have Fenris shirtless all the time. I would have been okay with that, even if it did kind of make him look like he just came out of Lord of the Flies.

I can only imagine the amount of squeeing that would cause!

I am sure there is apex of squee that can be reached where more squee would not add to it any further, gosh, at least I hope so.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

To be fair you should have told them to stop whinging and earn their pay. Modders do it for free.

Modifié par MelfinaofOutlawStar, 26 mars 2011 - 04:50 .

[merik3000]

Sharn01 wrote...

merik3000 wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

Geebus, you need to get more time and a larger budget for the next game if they are going to limit you so badly, most of  the problems of DA2 would have been gone with another year in developement, 6 months may have even been enough.

I wouldn't worry if your a pc player as the community of modders always do a nudity or partial nudity mod so I'm sure some modder who loves fenris is slaving away at this moment in time making him shirtless for thar scene!

I actually have no desire to see that, though I am sure many do.  I was speaking more in general terms, DA2 had such a solid foundation but came up short as a whole in almost every aspect.  There was so much room for improvement, by bioware standards of course, not compared to the average game.

I get what you're saying as I feel same. The whole framed narrative was kinda a wasted feature (except in Varrics quest) as was the long time frame as you're choices don't change the environment of Kirkwall at all.
Since the devs said that they didn't want to have epilogue slides again as you should see the changes your choices make I was expecting alot more visual changes in Kirkwall from the impact of Hawkes rise to power and how he/she got there but all that changed is where he lived really.
An example of this is before Act 1 where you choose who to work for as the side you choose could be shown to have more of a presence in Kirkwall like if you joined the mercenaries they get a building as a base with a few of them walking around as npcs or if you side with the smugglers they get the same building but with a few differences etc etc.
But as Mr Gaider just stated the most precious resource that is spent in the production of the game was time (he didn't actually say it I don't think as I'm just guessing this is the main reason for alot of things seeming unfinished or not implemented).

[Helen0rz]

David Gaider wrote...
I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

Not only he did, us Fengirls over at the Fenris thread enjoyed it too, more than once at that! Really, it's not about the sexy appeal either, it's the story/backstory that got me hooked. Really really enjoyed the character development for all companions in DA2. 

[Punahedan]

David Gaider wrote...

The original plan was actually to have Fenris shirtless all the time. I would have been okay with that, even if it did kind of make him look like he just came out of Lord of the Flies.

This is one of the many reasons why we love you.

Fenris was wonderful, so very believable. And you know it's a good character when even his own writer wants him shirtless.

[David Gaider]

Pacifien wrote...
BioWare, your insistence that Fenris wear a shirt upsets me, and you have lost my support.

RUINED FOREVER

Helen0rz wrote...
Not only he did, us Fengirls over at the
Fenris thread enjoyed it too, more than once at that! Really, it's not
about the sexy appeal either, it's the story/backstory that got me
hooked. Really really enjoyed the character development for all
companions in DA2. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Much obliged. It's nice to see that there's people who enjoyed the game, even if others did not.

Modifié par David Gaider, 26 mars 2011 - 05:00 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Not everything can be solved with "more time" or "more money". And I wouldn't say that cutting something in favor of an ENTIRELY NEW OBJECT is an example of "limited that badly". It's just limited. That's how things *work*. You simply can't have everything. Look at it from the artists' perspective: an entirely new *thing* that will need to be animated and created for one tiny scene that isn't even a minute long.

Cutting content, in film, games, or even music, is not a bad thing. Neither is sacrificing content for other content.

EDIT: Oh. And my mage slept with the hell out of Fenris. Showed him. Old mage-hater.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 26 mars 2011 - 05:02 .