101 réponses à ce sujet

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

I would like to know if a design for the rest of the tattoos exist.

For science.

^

It's not even that I care for dirty reasons. I just NEED to KNOW.

Exactly!

Its like a design cliffhanger with no promise of resolution.

[Babi]

Sandmanifest wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
BioWare, your insistence that Fenris wear a shirt upsets me, and you have lost my support.

RUINED FOREVER

Hmm. I don't think losing just one supporter is a big deal, I mean there are plenty more fish in the sea! :happy:

EDIT: OHHHH I was just told this was SARCASM! LOL got me!

lulz were had. 

I think you pulled a Merrill. XD

[yoshibb]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

ARGHH! As an artist myself, I weep.

Artists, I am disappoint.   

[KethWolfheart]

While I had some issues with the game I have to say the story was top-notch and totally made the game for me.  Fenris was excellent and I loved how he was a counterpoint to Anders.

The OP, and follow up comments, covered most of what I would say, so I am mainly throwing my support behind the fact that I thought the romances for Fenris and Anders was great.  Both of them impacted me greatly.  I think, if only due to the ending, that my preference is for Fenris.

This says a lot for the great writing as well - because I am not keen on the thin elf look.  In spite of that the great VO, the dialogue, etc., all sucked me in.

[NedPepper]

David Gaider wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
BioWare, your insistence that Fenris wear a shirt upsets me, and you have lost my support.

RUINED FOREVER

Helen0rz wrote...
Not only he did, us Fengirls over at the
Fenris thread enjoyed it too, more than once at that! Really, it's not
about the sexy appeal either, it's the story/backstory that got me
hooked. Really really enjoyed the character development for all
companions in DA2. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png

Much obliged. It's nice to see that there's people who enjoyed the game, even if others did not.

I don't want to sound like I'm kissing butt, but I can't thank you enough for this game and all of the work you've done creating this fascinating world.  I really enjoyed the novels as well.  Keep up the good work, Mr. Gaider.  Don't let the negativity change your creative drive.  I think for every person who is "disappointed" (and yet can never seem to put it into words that express WHY), there's someone like me who is having a blast with this franchise.  And this is coming from a guy who usually finds fantasy boring or cliche. 

[RosaAquafire]

khevan wrote...
Anyone done the rivalmance with Fenris, and if so, is it as "good" as the Friendmance?

It's really a matter of preference, I think. They're both awesome for different reasons.

In friendship, it's really about a rapport. Fenris is learning to trust someone and slowly falling for them. It's about mutual support and how he has a difficult time providing his side, sometimes. He slowly opens up and you form a close, deep bond based on trust and mutual understanding. He comes out a happier and more fulfilled person in friendship.

In rivalry, it's about passion. Fenris is drawn to you in a way that he can't ignore or deny, and he's absolutely furious at himself for having feelings for someone who represents such hatred and pain to him (as you have to support either slavery or magic.) Every line snaps with tension, and he's constantly fighting with himself even as he falls absolutely head over heels. He comes out less fulfilled, but more challenged, in this path.

I "liked" friendship better, probably just because I was more attached to that Hawke. But I think rivalry provides a more interesting and unique experience.

[PavelNovotny]

tigrina wrote...

He is kinda right in that mages are able to do horrible things. The one thing I disagreed with is that *all* mages end up like that. He doesn't think all mages are like that though, so I'm rather fine with his opinion on the matter.

I agree - even though I was a mage, I found myself agreeing with Fenris. There's one conversation where he is sitting with you and points out that most mages are NOT like you (Hawke) and do not control themselves. That dialog was cool because it shows how Fenris has come to grip with his feelings for you even though you are a mage. In his mind you're special, you're not just any mage. Makes a romance with him seem that much more rewarding and interesting.

AND the dialog seems to work equally well whether you're a gay Hawke or a straight female Hawke. I don't get the complaints people are making about traveling around with a group of bisexuals. In my mind I never saw Fenris say anything to indicate that he wasn't gay. He tells me I'm a handomse man, and makes some other very specific comments indicating that he is aware of my maleness.

I imagine that female Hawkes never see Fenris say anything to indicate that he wasn't straight. I think Bioware did a really good job with Fenris.

All this talk on the forums about having too many bisexuals is just nonsense. In MY game Fenris was gay, not bisexual. Just because you know he can be a male or female love interest depending on how you play the game does not make the character bisexual in the game.

[khevan]

Eudaemonium, quickthorn, & RosaAquafire:

Thanks for the replies. The consensus seems to be that a friendship romance was preferred, but the rivalmance was more "unique." Hmm...

I don't think I'll play DA2 enough to do both sides. I'm gonna hafta give this some thought. Thanks again!

[JakePT]

David Gaider wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...
Geebus, you need to get more time and a larger budget for the next game if they are going to limit you so badly, most of  the problems of DA2 would have been gone with another year in developement, 6 months may have even been enough.

My experience says that is probably true for any project. Like goldfish, they tend to expand to the space allotted-- it's never an easy task to determine how much work something will take, and anyone who's ever worked on a mod knows how easy it is for scope creep to occur when you have a bunch of enthusiastic people on a project who simply want to keep adding stuff in to make it better. So, really, there's always a lack of time and resources to do everything you want.

Obviously, but you can't deny (well, maybe you will) that Dragon Age 2 had a ridiculously short development time for a game of its genre, and it shows. You'll probably never get another 6 years to make a game, but 14 months is basically on the opposite end of absurd development times.

You're never going to get the resources to do everything you want, but when a game like this has what is arguably the single most important quest character/story-wise (All That Remains) on the chopping block, multiple times, you're being completely screwed by the money-men.

Hopefully the relatively lukewarm critical reception will convince these eggheads to give you more time and money to do more of what you want.

[Statulos]

I think the decision of reducing the "2 years of dlc´s" for DA:O is related to some extent to this.

I want to think that the extra time would have given Bioware some extra time, some extra resources (kind of telling the producers, "hey, we´re still making a decent buck out of the first game") and even extra experience in terms of experimentation for DA 2.

Now the reason for not happening is irrelevant, for DA 2 is out there. And somehow I have the feeling that there is more viable script on papers that was cut off than the one included in the actual game and not exactly because of tech limitations (like the explained tears in the eyes of characters).

[Emperor Iaius I]

The only reason I would sleep with Fenris would be to learn more about the Imperium.


. . . sleeping with someone for knowledge is better than doing it for money, right?????

[LoveAsThouWilt]

merik3000 wrote...

Funnily enough I am very tempted to romance  Fenris even though I'm a straight guy as he is the most interesting character and flirting with him as a guy is ridiculously fun and coy.
His banter with the other party members is the best so far apart from Isabella with Aveline.
But kudos to bioware for making his character compelling enough for me to question my orientation even if it is only in a game as I've always remained a stickler for staying the same gender in video games as I am in real life. Well at least his romance won't make me feel like a traitor to my beliefs ( Merill: Supporting a naive girl play around with dangerous blood magic learnt from a demon she called nice:huh:.... I hate prideful ignorance or Letting a despicable slaver go just so Isabella can say she got the ship from him with cunning:bandit:... I hate slavers and people that enable them just so they can feel superior... Or helping a good man who is driven mad by a demon of rageful vengeance who murders innocents in the name of their  so called just cause<_<... I hate the willful ignorance and stupidity of terrorists who punish innocents for the crimes of others.) So fenris seems like the only romance option whose beliefs are even remotely close to mine as I love killing slavers and traitors. I guess I'm lucky he's a likable fellow with puppy eyes and a good sense of humor!

I guess under those circumstances your Hawke would fall under the "not gay" but "fell in love with someone in spite of their gender being the same has his" romance lol  I'm sure such things even happen in real life, but i'm certain not very often.

[Dasha Dreyson]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

The only reason I would sleep with Fenris would be to learn more about the Imperium.


. . . sleeping with someone for knowledge is better than doing it for money, right?????

My Hawke would for that voice. I know that is a shallow reason, but that voice!  Yeah, I don't really like brooding males, but his voice almost makes up for it... no offense to those that do, it's just not my thing.

[Dawnielle]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

Mr. Gaider, of course you thought of that!!! And you gave us Dog too! Maker Bless you.

[Knightly_BW]

PavelNovotny wrote...

Even though I bought DA2 when it was released (Signature Edition - being a fanboy), I waited a couple weeks before playing it. I read a lot of the posts and was worried that the game was going to be a disappointment because of all the negativity about the new combat, the new dialog wheel, the romance choices (gay male ones - those are the only ones I care about), etc.

I didn't like Anders in Awakenings - thought he was a dork (Nathaniel Howe was much more interesting), so I wasn't looking forward to romancing him, and I didn't think Fenris was very attractive. I had already romanced Zevran as a Grey Warden, so the thought of dealing with another bisexual elf wasn't very exciting even though I like to play as an elf mage usually. Don't get me wrong - I liked Zevran a lot - I would never want to romance Alistair (his personality was fine for friends, but too annoying as lovers).

I just finished the game today, and I have to say that the gay Fenris romance was wonderful. I think it's the best gay romance I have ever seen in a western game, and I believe I have played every single one in existence starting from when Fallout 2 let you marry the farmer's son.

The ONLY complaint I have about Fenris is that he waited THREE YEARS to talk about the night we had sex. Come on, who waits that long without saying something. There really should have been some dialog before the end of Act 2 that says he wants to put things on hold or something.

Here is what made me love Fenris:

1. Great voice and dialog. The broodiness was perfect. Also, the dialog made it seem like he was gay all along, not another bisexual elf. I know there has been a lot of discussion about making romance dialog that works for both genders, but I did not see anything indicating that Fenris had ever been straight. I was convinced, and that was fine with me. Good job on that.

2. Wonderful banter. Once I started flirting with Fenris the companions all seemed to have something to say about it. And the banter all sounded like they were talking about a gay relationship, not a straight one. In fact, Isabella came off a lot like Fenris' **** hag (she drinks with him, plays cards with him, etc.). I was very impressed with the way this all came together and sounded like it was built for a gay relationship.

3. Fenris has very good character development. The non-romantic banter he has with the other companions - including Sebastien - is great. The comments he has during the cutscenes also work well. The difficulty in developing a relationship with him as a mage makes him more interesting.

I also loved the way Fenris tells Zevran to back off when he starts flirting with me.  :-)

The cool thing was that I actually became more and more interested in Fenris as the game went on. I grew to like him so much, that I felt horrible when I went back after I finished the game to see what happens if I give Fenris back to the Tevinters in the scene with his sister. I wanted to see if there was a line like "You shouldn't have waited three years before saying something about sleeping with me" so I played through that scene. I actually felt  dirty, like I had betrayed him. I had to go back and replay some of the good scenes to erase the memory of him being taken away with his head hanging down. Impressive for a game character to elicit that kind of emotional reaction.

I think this romance was a huge step forward and a big improvement over the gay romances we've seen in the past. Good work Bioware!

Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I agree.

Even I liked Alistair (with cheating of course) and Zevran romances in DA:O, Fenris feel much different, more true.

In my take on that 3 year break is, Fenris having doubts, he is not very content with other peoples affection, as much as he knows he is all alone along his whole life. Hawke is the only people (at least in my group) that show understanding/love/support to him and he was a mage. So I think he was kinda dumb founded. Caught between two situations: a mage breaking his walls, getting close to the person he didn't know he existed in him. Also there are still those hunters out there whose intend to kill him and hurt anyone stand between them and their masters property, namely Fenris. I could understand his caged animal feeling. Is 3 years too long to wait? If I knew there is a guy waiting for me (i.e. didn't have realtionship in between and still showing affection towards me) I can wait much longer. Fenris (so sorry for campyness)  wants to feel like a virgin, clean from his past and strong enough to give himself to another person fully without doubts or future regrets.

Of course different past experience and current living conditions can make his actions look a bit stupid but for me Fenris is best tought romance with Sky from Jade Empire. Feel much more special than Zevran's oh I like you, let's bed approach to PC.

If we come to that fully clothed Fenris after first intimacy, I felt it is very good. As soon as I see him fully clothed and by fire place I sensed something is really wrong. He have regrets about something and maybe this will be the last time I will ever see him. (Guy awake and clothed while you are having a nap means something is very very wrong but being there and waiting means he wants to explain something to you). I think that scene means much more to me than several words we spent at that night.

Not really related but I am still amazed how deeper and professionally handled my favorite characters in DA 2. Fenris, Aveline and Merill maybe have lesser lines than DA:O companions/or lesser freedom to talk whenever we want to,  but with those talks they perfectly pass a very good insight of their personalities. My only complain can be not being able to  initiate conversations if you once try to complete on going topic. Leaving a convo in middle to investigate a companion/NPC then continuing the very same convo as nothing happened feels weird.

[Fault Girl]

After DA:O I didn't think anyone could beat Alistair, boy was I wrong!!

Fenris tick's all the boxes. Just wish there was a shirtless scene *sigh*

[LoveAsThouWilt]

I know this is quite unrelated, but, I gotta ask it since it was mentioned: Is Jade Empire worth playing still? I mean is it good still in spite of its dated look. Story/romance, whatever. I hear people talk about it but I never got the chance to play it.

[Malja]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

I know this is quite unrelated, but, I gotta ask it since it was mentioned: Is Jade Empire worth playing still? I mean is it good still in spite of its dated look. Story/romance, whatever. I hear people talk about it but I never got the chance to play it.

... Very, very unrelated.  Maybe? Was an interesting play.

[SheilaD67]

I played through as a female warrior who romanced Fenris. And, am now going through with a male mage trying for a rivalmance (as a mage, it's easier to ramp up the rival points than friendship). The dialogues do change subtley depending upon the gender of the PC, which is a nice change from DA:O. Oh sure...Zev has his 'I've been with men...I've been with women..." but that's pretty much what he says to a female warden as well.

As an aside, the male romance option with Anders gives you a much deeper (IMHO) dialogue option when you flirt - you learn a heck of a lot more about Anders and his life at the circle with a male PC than female.

[Siansonea]

I'm playing through the same-sex Anders romance right now, but hearing these comments makes me think that maybe I'll do another gay character down the road who romances Fenris. Now that I've found the unlimited XP/money cheat, I have the easy breezy combat that I was looking for in my first playthrough. Now I can focus on the fun stuff, like story and character interaction. I think my next character will be a straight male who romances Isabella though, I haven't interacted much with Isabella yet, I'm interested to see how her schtick plays out when she's a love interest. I will save Merrill's romance for last, if I even bother, she skeeves me out with her awkward loner blood mage thing.

[hoorayforicecream]

David Gaider wrote...

PavelNovotny wrote...
Oh, I also don't see why Fenris would be standing next to the fireplace fully dressed in his armor after having sex. He should've at least been shirtless.  :-)

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance.

Apologies for dropping this in a Fenris thread, but it did seem to be the appropriate place to do so.

I understand the constraints involved with creating a whole new tattooed Fenris torso. I understand the same constraints with creating an Isabela in flagrante delicto torso for her love scene with Hawke. But I have to ask... why on the Maker's green earth does Hawke have to be fully clothed after shuddering Isabela's rudder? 

[PavelNovotny]

Asperius wrote...

In my take on that 3 year break is, Fenris having doubts, he is not very content with other peoples affection, as much as he knows he is all alone along his whole life. Hawke is the only people (at least in my group) that show understanding/love/support to him and he was a mage. So I think he was kinda dumb founded. Caught between two situations: a mage breaking his walls, getting close to the person he didn't know he existed in him. Also there are still those hunters out there whose intend to kill him and hurt anyone stand between them and their masters property, namely Fenris. I could understand his caged animal feeling. Is 3 years too long to wait? If I knew there is a guy waiting for me (i.e. didn't have realtionship in between and still showing affection towards me) I can wait much longer. Fenris (so sorry for campyness)  wants to feel like a virgin, clean from his past and strong enough to give himself to another person fully without doubts or future regrets.

I think the problem I have with the 3 years is this. I had sex with Fenris and he freaked out and didn't want to talk about it. Fine. However, we are still traveling together and going on adventures (presumably - I still have him in my party). So here I am, hanging out closely for THREE YEARS with someone I have feelings for, who also has feelings for me and is constantly thinking about how my touch felt (according to Fenris). In all that time Fenris never once mentions anything about that night? Not even when he's hanging out in the mansion drinking?

I think it would've been more realistic to at least have Isabella come up to me afterwards and tell me about how torn up Fenris is about the whole thing. Or, if Fenris is trying to make me hate him he should pick a fight with me to try and drive me away. Saying nothihng for 3 years just seems too unlikely given that the two of us are still spending so much time together. There needs to be another dialogue scene after the sex episode but before the three years are up, where Fenris tries harder to drive me away, or tells me he doesn't love me, or something.

[Raiil]

I'm an unabashed Anders fangirl, but I loved Fenris too, even if he has a lot of feelings sometimes.

I've romanced him, and just been friends with him, as a mage, and he, like the other characters, are really just that interesting. I enjoy the conflict he has over everything, even though it means my secretly alcoholic Hawke never gets to enjoy that wine cellar because Fenris insists on using the walls for aiming practise.

tl;dr yay for glowing elves, give us dlc with him! <33

[Babi]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

The only reason I would sleep with Fenris would be to learn more about the Imperium.


. . . sleeping with someone for knowledge is better than doing it for money, right?????

Depends if you're a Sophist or not. 

[Knightly_BW]

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

I know this is quite unrelated, but, I gotta ask it since it was mentioned: Is Jade Empire worth playing still? I mean is it good still in spite of its dated look. Story/romance, whatever. I hear people talk about it but I never got the chance to play it.

It is still quite enjoyable game for me. Madly in love with claw bracer fighting animations. (Forgot their in game name). Nice change of pace from sword & sorcery games to punch/kick & sorcery game.