206 réponses à ce sujet

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Disnaster wrote...
I played Neverwinter Nights on the PC.  Loved the story.  Fell in love with Bioware.

I played Neverwinter Nights. I don't like the story. I don't fell in love with Boware. I fell in love with Aurora toolset as much as I feel in love with TES construction Kit. There is only one type of love in my role-play gaming. My character and my story. Doesn't matter who develop them.

Disnaster wrote...
With my original Xbox, I played Jade Empire, Knights of the Old Republic.  Loved them both, particularly Jade Empire.

I don't play Jade Empire and Knights of the Old Republic. Don't bother with them

Disnaster wrote...
On the 360, I've played ME 1 & 2 (easily my favorite games of all time) through multiple times.  I loved DA:O as well.  Played all the DLC for the game and loved it.  Every origin story, as much game time as possible.  I really looked forward to DA2.

Played Mass Effect 2 only. I don't like it. No toolset. Predefined Paragon/Renegade Shepard. Not my character. Not my story. Not my game. I loved DA O. Played all the DLC for the game and loved it.  Every origin story, as much game time as possible.  I really looked forward to DA2.

Disnaster wrote...
After just playing the game all the way through on the 360, I'm surprised at the vitriol directed at this amaizng game.

No comment.

Disnaster wrote...
Yes, it's not as epic in scope as DA:O, but it's still better than 90% of the games out there.

90% of the game out there? Care to back that up? I thought Pokemon was better out there. Even more people playing the old Counter Strike at Steampowered. Check it out at Steam statistic for daily played games.

Disnaster wrote...
The comabt system is much more enjoyable to use, I LOVE the fact that my Hawke has a vocie, and the companion characters, particularly Merrill and Isabella, are pretty close to my favorite character in DA:O, Leliana.

Good for you. Weird I find, the companions particularly Anders and Fenris tantrum constantly hurt my ears. Had to skip their dialogues all the times. Isabela is not soooo my type and Merrill looks like an alien it's hard to fall in love. 

Disnaster wrote...
If you played Merrill's quest to its tragic conclusion, how could you not feel something?  Or when the First Enchanter does *that* before the final battle--did you not say, "No no!  Don't do it!"  (I did.)  The ending felt a bit--flat--my character would never have just vanished after leaving Kirkwall in such a state--but on the whole, I really loved the game.

How could you feel anything if you are not there but a talking puppet called Hawke? The ending felt compelling. The story serve it purpose the moment Hawke is declared the Champion of Kirwall. Act 3 is nothing but anticlimax, probably as stage for DLCs. Gosh I hope I don't have to see Hawke again in DA 3. I want to role-play my character in my story. But on the whole, I really wish I could love the game.

Disnaster wrote...
So, please, without hating ME, can anybody explain the hate toward the game?  Yes, it's different from DA:O, and maybe they shouldn't have billed it as a true sequel (unlike ME 1 & 2, you are definitely not playing the same story--it's more like the Elder Scrolls to me, where you are playing different stories in the same world that interlink). 

But compared to most games that are out there?  It wins.  At least, it did to me.  On my 360.  Which may only irritate some of you even more, since I hear one of the biggest complaints is that they pandered to people like me...

So...my original question: Is it mostly PC players who are hating?

You already make it clear, you'll take anything from BioWare no matter what. Does it matter to know PC players point of view like myself? I don't think you'll listen anyway.

[LemuresXL]

Yeah I play it on the PC... Your point is moronic.

The games problem is the 5 diffrent dungeons you constantly go into with diffrent stories springing up and the fact that your in One F'ing city the entire damn game. It's just Lazy development.

That being said I don't hate the game. The story telling is much better then first, the chars are better then first by far. Except whiney lady gaga Anders. I enjoyed the combat system just fine. *shrug* Whatever anyways. Bioware has some serious f'ing improvments to do... because overall, DA2 was pushed to fast... or something, I dunno, but it's bs.

[Deadly Ramon]

I'm digging DA2 on the pc so far (just started playing 3 days ago), and while its plot hasn't enthralled me as much as DAO's did, I do like the upgraded engine (reminds me of Mass Effect 2's) and the persistent references and allusions to things my hero did, and how that affected the world, in Origins.

[Monica83]

Those are stange times indeed... People is ready to pay much bucks for copy-paste area... Squishy ridicolus combat... and rpg with less rpg elements........ And if one don't agree with them and its say its a bad game.. They address it like a hater or troll... They see shiny effect... and blood explosion... pirates with corset and panties.... ans day cooooooooooooooooooooooooool *O*....

Well im a pc user...I have nothing aganist console player...i own a console too (ps3) with many games... But its silly see people that call others with names like troll or hater.. or doomsayer....

Seriusly Grew up!

[Baelyn]

LemuresXL wrote...
Except whiney lady gaga Anders.

I didn't agree with everything you said....but +50 internetz for Lady Gaga/Anders comment. I laughed really loud when I read this.

[MOTpoetryION]

well i hope its not just the PC users who are (giving feedback)hating. because we all should its the only way they will fix issues with a game these days. But not enough gamers speak up so it looks like a small group that things are happening to . So its not important enough for EA to fix alot of the issues they have with their games.

And i just started playing the DA2 today but you will see some threads by me giving my feedback i do with every game i play. I'm the one that found out in DAO that you could skip the joining and save jory and daveth and play the the whole game without ever becoming a grey warden.. But i told bioware what they needed to do to fix it. and my first comment on the game is. The game to me seems like a completely different game except the voice acting and model animations for the most part. almost everything has changed. From the fighting, the way you set up your skills even the menus to what happens to the bodies after you loot them. i like the game so far its a little dark in alot of places. But that could be just my old monitor.(does it seem dark for anyone alse?) And i dont really blame bioware i look deeper and blame EA and their business model that they use . They just want the games out the door ASAP . They have discarded the polishing up step in game making as well as not as good of QAing IMO. And go with: "we will just patch it once we get feedback from all our Paying bata testers(us)" .I have seen it with other dev's they have bought. All of them started releasing more buggy/glitchy games well the ones that stayed open that is . And it looks like its already happening with bioware. i told people when DAO came out that the old bioware that they loved is gone.

But some are talking about more issues with their games that are played with steam . You cant point the finger at boiware for that .Steam has their own problems thats for sure and you add that to issues with a game, well you should expect more problems . Im just hoping EA never tries to go to the ONLY download selling of a game. That will be a dark day in gaming if they ever do. And I would bet money on it that they are the first to try it. .But so far with DA2 i have not had one CTD yet and i played about 7 hours with no restarts.. Its much better IMO then DAO was .But like i said it seems like a totaly different game to me except for hearing morrigans voice coming out of someone else

[Tommy6860]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

I am exclusively a console player, the last game I could play on my computer was Diablo 2, and even that suffered from horrendous lag.

That being said, I loathed DA2. The combat was annoyingly button mashy, the characters were barely capable of being called 2-dimensional in that you only got to understand them during their Crisis Points or through scant party banter that hinted at anything beyond their most basic personality preset (the shy one, the braggart, the ****, the moody one, the rebel, etc etc), the story except for a few notable exceptions (All that Remains, Demands of the Qun, etc) was lackluster and basically consisted of Act 1: "Disregard females, acquire currency." Act 2: "Oh crap, more investigative nonsense" and Act 3: "M isn't evil but game mechanics makes it so, T arent evil abusive sadists, they're simply doing their jobs but every named templar is either evil, insane, or a sadist (or a combination) except for Keran, Thrask, and Cullen." Ontop of that, the NPCs that were important to the story had very little character development beyond a few scant lines in the Acts preceding their arrival, or a brief glimpse that offered nothing but a "Ah, so that's what the future big bad looks like" except for the notable exclusion of the Arishok, there was no choice, only the illusion of it, AND the final capping point - I paid 60 dollars for a cliffhanger ending on the promise that a 10 year epic saga in which I actually only played what amounted to maybe a month in an environment that *NEVER CHANGED*. Year 1- WE NEED MONEY! Year 4 - The Qunari are all blaaargh!... Year 7 - Umm... what the hell?

 Good post!



I agree and I am also a console gamer, though I primarily play on PC and have
been for well over a year now. I, for now, gave up on console games because
they just don't change; everything wants to be action and shooting ala modern
warfare. Don't get me wrong, I like action games and I did like shooters for a
while, but they just got boring. RPGs have always been my first love in
gaming genres. I liked Oblivion, though it was weak on character interaction
and story, but the character build selections, powers and world were incredible
and it played like an RPG. So was Fallout 3, I loved them both on console
and PC. PC has its advantages because of better graphics, mods and console
commands, but that didn't sway me from the consoles versions.



Mass Effect, probably the best story in an RPG I have ever experienced was
incredible on the 360 and blew me away. The original Xbox had Fable, which was
awesome and Morrow wind, probably the best of the ES games to date. Jade Empire
was a fantastic action game, though I don't consider it an RPG. I love
Bayonetta on the 360, but that was total action. DA2 gives me more action
and less story, less character interaction than what should be in an RPG, it
fails. Having seen your reply here how you play consoles, I know many who
passed on DA2 because they actually liked how DA:O was and they had it on
console. It just proves that not all console gamers are action oriented only
and appreciates the finer points of RPGs as there are many PC only users who
only go for action/shooter games.



It would be nice if devs would just develop the game mechanics along the line
of the platforms more, instead of porting them from one to the other. I prefer
and always will prefer the true RPG game, those that don't have to focus on action
(like Planetscape Torment for example), but I am open to RPGs having action, as
long as it has great character development and NPC interactions. DA2 has
decent character development, but the NPC and companion interactions are very
weak as is their customizations.

In any case, it makes me happy to have someone like you make
a post from the console perspective on the positives and negatives of DA2 without
having to play into the platform lames.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 26 mars 2011 - 08:48 .

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

I been playing both PC and console since the Intelivision and the Commodore 64 and if you ask me DA:O was a pretty bad game and I hated the DA 2 demo.

[Tommy6860]

Dorian the Monk of Sune wrote...

I been playing both PC and console since the Intelivision and the Commodore 64 and if you ask me DA:O was a pretty bad game and I hated the DA 2 demo.

Istarted gaming about 7 years before those systems, but since you say you thought Origins was pretty bad and you hated the DA2 demo, I have to ask, do you like RPGs?

[philbo1965uk]

Ironically the largest group complaining are the console platform...

[Glorfindel709]

Thank you Tommy

For me, it comes down to this with an RPG. A Good RPG is a game that can make me care about the character I have created, and the world he is interacting in. A Fantastic RPG is a game where I feel that I *am* the character, and that the world I'm interacting with matters.

In Dragon Age Origins, I was Glorfindel Surana, a Maleficar Grey Warden, and the choices I made had a real impact on the world. The people I interacted with were friends, enemies, rivals, and everything inbetween. The choices I made had a true effect on the world, and I felt as if I was personally effected by those choices. I can't tell you how long I agonized over what to do in regards to Connor at Redcliffe, or the Anvil of the Void, or aiding Dagna, or supporting a vengeful Keeper or the sort-of Innocent cursed victims of his angers.

With Origins, I wasnt sitting in my apartment playing a video game. I was a Grey Warden questing across Ferelden trying to stop the Blight along side a ragtag group of companions united through common cause and interest. They were my friends. The world was shaped, by me. And I was happy to be apart of that.

And then came Dragon Age 2...... I felt none of what I described above for 99.9% of the game. The only moment I felt an emotional connection to the Mage Hawke I had created was during the quest "All That Remains" in Act 2. I didnt care about the Hawke Family, or any of my companions outside of Varric. I didnt care about Kirkwall, the Qunari, or the poorly written Mage/Templar conflict.

If I had had the option, my Act 3 would have ended at the steps of the Chantry with the single line of "Screw you guys, I'm going home." and I would have had Hawke turn around and walk away to let them sort it out themselves. That was the level of apathy I had towards the world I was playing in.

[Montana]

Disnaster wrote...
...
So, please, without hating ME, can anybody explain the hate toward the game?  Yes, it's different from DA:O, and maybe they shouldn't have billed it as a true sequel (unlike ME 1 & 2, you are definitely not playing the same story--it's more like the Elder Scrolls to me, where you are playing different stories in the same world that interlink). 
....

I think you nailed it in your own post.
DA2 is just a too a big step from DAO, they changed many things (for the worse) that didn't need changing.
They took away options that many fans wanted, they simply went in the wrong direction with the sequel.
If they'd called it anything but Dragon Age 2, people wouldn't be so disappointed.

I play DA and ME for different reasons, I expect ME to be an action-rpg and DA to be an old-school rpg. If you make both into an action rpg you loose one genre you might enjoy for another game in a genre you like.

I like DA and ME for different reasons, I don't want ME and Dragon Effect, I want Dragon Age to be Dragon Age.

This is the main problem for many i think, It's the main problem for me anyway.

Modifié par Tony77A, 26 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[Sentox6]

Unfortunately, it probably is.

It's a shame, because my PC is vastly superior to my consoles as a platform. Unfortunately, it has the association of an incredibly immature fanbase with an enormous self-entitlement complex.

[CRISIS1717]

Yeah I played it on PC but I assume the awful storyline, reused maps and weak game play is on every platform version.

[Persephone]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Disnaster wrote...

Actually, it is hating. Disagreeing with something is one thing. The vitriol I've seen spewed toward this game--and people who like it (a thread I just read had one user telling another one to go kill themselves)--is not disagreement. It's deciding that because you don't like it, don't like the changes, then it stinks.

For most console-based players, many of the changes were better. Improved graphics, voiced character, different combat system. I get that they are a HUGE change from the PC version (which was imported to consoles the first time around), but really. Telling someone to "kill yourself" because they like DA2 and you don't? That's hating.

Oh thats nothing should have seen the crap with ME:2 some of our good PC friends made threats of letting Anthrax into the airvents of bioware studios.

They did WHAT? And just when I thought they could sink no lower. Charming, really.

[Tommy6860]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Thank you Tommy

For me, it comes down to this with an RPG. A Good RPG is a game that can make me care about the character I have created, and the world he is interacting in. A Fantastic RPG is a game where I feel that I *am* the character, and that the world I'm interacting with matters.

YW, and you again nailed it on the head what an RPG is and that is what it is for me as well. Like I said before, Fallout  3 and Oblivion wer not true RPGs, but you could really build your character the way you wanted amd interact with the world as was F3, but the lack of chracter NPC interaction took much from those games. Maybe they could be classified as more fantasy type RPGs than true RPGs. You essentially play as a loner role player in those two games. BG and BG2, PS:T, DA:O (to name just a few) do what you describe and were very deep. Origins left torn whenever I finshed a playthrough on who I didn't fall in love with and who I betrayed, who was left to rule Ferelden, that I had to play it again, it was that great. Hell, my wife quit playing it because of wanting to do it over and over again.

I said this before and I think it is apropos to my feelings between Origins and DA2: Origins is my RPG love, but I feel DA2 left me for another lover.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 26 mars 2011 - 09:23 .

[Tommy6860]

Sentox6 wrote...

Unfortunately, it probably is.

It's a shame, because my PC is vastly superior to my consoles as a platform. Unfortunately, it has the association of an incredibly immature fanbase with an enormous self-entitlement complex.

That cuts both ways and I own both platforms. You can find just as many console gamers disappointed with DA2 as you will with PC gamers. Not all console gamers are action oriented only gamers. The same complaints from consolers about Origins being difficult on their platform, could be called a "self-entitlement complex" as well. What about just having good criticisms about the game, regardless of the platform. It isn't any follow up to Origins and it doesn't play like an RPG, so why call it Dragon Age at all  or give the RPG tag?

[MOTpoetryION]

I 'll say it again BIOWARE is dead, is gone forever sadly, so get used to it . There will never be another baldersgate/ME2/TES level of game from them. The reason DAO was better is because they had worked and finished 80- 85 % of the game before d EA d swallowed them up. Same with ME2 . But now with DA2 thats all dEAd and it shows.I really hope dEAd does not buy anymore Devs They are the blight on the gaming industry.

[moilami]

Medhia Nox wrote...

That you for admitting that being a PC user is "Elite" - you have accepted truth, you are worthy to worship at the keyboard of my PC.

Signed and approved.

A very good observation.

[Jitter]

Disnaster wrote...

After just playing the game all the way through on the 360, I'm surprised at the vitriol directed at this amaizng game.  Yes, it's not as epic in scope as DA:O, but it's still better than 90% of the games out there.  

You answered you own question .... 

as do most people who start off with ... the game is awesome why the hate ..

follows with

"I know the reuse of  but"
"I know it's not as Epic as"
"I didn't like the wheel but"
or the best is 
"It's really good if you lower your expectations"


DA2



DAO


The are both phones .One just has allot more options.....take your pick




 

Modifié par Jitter, 26 mars 2011 - 09:49 .

[Sentox6]

Tommy6860 wrote...
That cuts both ways and I own both platforms. You can find just as many console gamers disappointed with DA2 as you will with PC gamers. Not all console gamers are action oriented only gamers. The same complaints from consolers about Origins being difficult on their platform, could be called a "self-entitlement complex" as well. What about just having good criticisms about the game, regardless of the platform. It isn't any follow up to Origins and it doesn't play like an RPG, so why call it Dragon Age at all  or give the RPG tag?

It was a general comment, not one aimed strictly at the feedback to DA2. The PC is clearly not the moneymaking platform for a number of AAA genres that it used to be. PC fans still seem to think they deserve a version of the game that is superior in every way to the console editions, simply because it could be. Unfortunately, business doesn't work that way. I'm happy for what I can get, personally.

Still, for fans of the more traditional CRPG, clearly the PC users will see more of a regression in DA2 than console players will.

I never said anything against constructive criticism. However, I'm sure you wouldn't even conceive of disagreeing with the fact that these forums are overwhelmed with bashing, flaming, and outright trolling. Comments like "horrible story" and "garbage game" aren't worth the bytes on a server's hard drive. It's just embarassing that someone actually took the time to prove their mental dysfunction.

Also, DA2 is absolutely an RPG. It may not fit your preferred variation of the RPG, but it is undoubtedly still within the bounds of the genre. If I may take the lazy way out and borrow from Wikipedia:

A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development. Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.

[aries1001]

As for registration or posting requiring a cd-key please do not do this. I still want to be able to post in this general forum, since I can't afford to buy the game right now. However, I think maybe it could be a good idea to make it so that you only can make a post, the first after, after some time has passed, like 24 or 48 hours.

I'm not sure where all this 'hate' is coming from, though. It seems mainly to come from people who may not have played the game yet. I haven't - for obvious reasons. However, I'll say this - when DA: Origins came out, people really wanted to see a human commer origin. Now, they got one with Hawke. And people also very asking (and some very vocal) about a game with a more political plot. And now they have it. And people still complain.

And I bet if Bioware had made dao2, people would have complaint about how it was just more of the same same old....

[Tommy6860]

Sentox6 wrote...


Still, for fans of the more traditional CRPG, clearly the PC users will see more of a regression in DA2 than console players will.

Indeed, a paradigm shift so to speak.

I never said anything against constructive criticism. However, I'm sure you wouldn't even conceive of disagreeing with the fact that these forums are overwhelmed with bashing, flaming, and outright trolling. Comments like "horrible story" and "garbage game" aren't worth the bytes on a server's hard drive. It's just embarassing that someone actually took the time to prove their mental dysfunction.

I didn't say you had anything against constructive criticism. And no, I don't conceive such notions that in "any" forum, trash talking is not a commplace theme for some who think it is a form of meaningful engagement. Having said that, part of your first remark, to which I replied in this thread, stated, "Unfortunately, it has the association of an incredibly immature fanbase with an enormous self-entitlement complex.", would hardly be constructive considering its tone of condescension to PC owners. I simply made the analogy that console gamers (still) feel this sense of entitlement as well, in comparison.

Also, DA2 is absolutely an RPG. It may not fit your preferred variation of the RPG, but it is undoubtedly still within the bounds of the genre. If I may take the lazy way out and borrow from Wikipedia:

A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development. Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.

Well, keep in mind that RPGs typically (as not noted in your example from Wikipedia) don't have extreme and unrealistic looking hack-n-slash action style gaming elements involved, which caters to a certain crowd. Call it making a business decision, but DA2 hardly represents the best in RPG elements and is not "absolutely" (your emphasis) an RPG, since the interaction with NPCs and companions is severely scaled down, even compared to its predecessor.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 26 mars 2011 - 11:32 .

[Sentox6]

Tommy6860 wrote...
Having said that, your first remark, to which I replied in this thread said, "Unfortunately, it has the association of an incredibly immature fanbase with an enormous self-entitlement complex.", would hardly be constructive considering its tone of condescension to PC owners. I simply made the analogy that console gamers (still) feel this sense of entitlement as well, in comparison.

All I have is casual empiricism, to be sure. I see a considerable amount of platform-elitism from PC owners, so that's what I'm basing my opinion on. It's hard to prove one way or the other. But you're right, it's present in the console fanbases as well. It just manifests more as a PS3 vs 360 war. I'll admit my mental picture is one of the console fanboys throwing dirt at each other while the PC elitists sit in their exclusive treehouse and sneer down. YMMV.

Well, keep in mind that RPGs typically (as not noted in your example from Wikipedia) don't have extreme and unrealistic looking hack-n-slash action style gaming elements involved, which caters to a certain crowd. Call it making a business decision, but DA2 hardly represents the best in RPG elements and is not "absolutely" (your emphasis) an RPG, since the interaction with NPCs and companions is severely scaled down compared to its predecessor.

Hack-n-slash action RPGs are still RPGs. It's no different than simulation vs arcade racing games. They still come under the same umbrella, no matter what the 'purists' think.

Also, I have to disagree with your assertion about scaled down character interaction. I didn't notice any major shift in the proportion of playtime spent in dialogue, and character interaction is the primary reason I buy Bioware's games.

Modifié par Sentox6, 26 mars 2011 - 11:49 .

[Zorlagius]

I still don`t get it why PC gets dissed as nonprofitable. There is lots of money to be made with MULTI-PLATFORM GAMES, which is the real reason why we have these hybrid games trying to please everyone but often failing to do so. However, when you do manage to land into that sweet spot money just keeps rolling in.