52 réponses à ce sujet

[lgrin]

thanks for posting the info Waltzingbear.

[Killjoy Cutter]

The bump.

[Ganshor]

While not mentioned, I am sure others have seen this and considered what this means if you wanted to run a SH/BM with Vitality. +100 health regen = 1.1% regen each second. With a (very) modest 200 health and a 5:1 ratio, you are regen-ing 11 "mana" each second...

[Ganshor]

Hrm, while I am glad someone other than me spent some time on this, I am wondering about the health #s in relation to the quote from Peter on a seperate thread...

Peter Thomas wrote...

DrDuckman wrote...
Ok, here's a good question for Peter, does Vitality from spirit healer work when Healing Aura is not on? Cause if so, that makes Blood/Spirit magic MUCH more valid.

Yes, though there is an error in the string. It should be +40 health regeneration (roughly 1%/sec).

full (extremely long thread) found here:  http://social.biowar...ndex/6359674/37
My point:  if +40 health regen of a mage is roughly 1%/sec that sounds more in line with the .25 from the warrior.  The +100 would be in line with 1% of the OP's mage numbers.  Did they move everyone to .25 base regen?

Sorry if I am the only one confused...

[Ace Attorney]

This makes Rally looks good despite the not Sharing Sustain buffs.

[eno detah]

I wonder if this is working as intended or bugged. Unless there's a non-linear effect once you've accumulated a certain number of bonuses, it doesn't seem to provide enough of a benefit (in most situations) to justify using wield slots (or skill points).

[Waltzingbear]

Ganshor wrote...

Peter Thomas wrote...
Yes, though there is an error in the string. It should be +40 health regeneration (roughly 1%/sec).

My point:  if +40 health regen of a mage is roughly 1%/sec that sounds more in line with the .25 from the warrior.  The +100 would be in line with 1% of the OP's mage numbers.  Did they move everyone to .25 base regen?

Sorry if I am the only one confused...

Apparently you're not the only one.

It's hard to dissect your comment for the sweet parts because you made a very good mish-mash of it all.

Let me first clear that part of the confusion:
- For every class no matter if it's mana/stam or health the base regen amount is fixed.
- Every point in #mana/stamina or #health regeneration (described in items and abilities the same way) adds and additional 0.01% of the mana/stamina or health pool regeneration per second.

Warriors' base health regen is 0.25% per sec true; after that I just don't understand what you mean. While +100 regen would give an equivalent amount to mages' base regen, I don't see any point in mentioning that.

I think that Peter Thomas simply made a blunder. +40 health regeneration would in fact be exactly 0.4%.
I wasn't aware of that post and now I can see where the misconception of 1 regen point being 0.025% came from.

Peter is not the messiah he's just a very naughty boy.

Modifié par Waltzingbear, 10 avril 2011 - 05:30 .

[gingerbill]

T3hAnubis wrote...

This makes Rally looks good despite the not Sharing Sustain buffs.

i atill cant work out if rally is good or not , i want it for stamina for my party as i use second wind and dont need it myself .

Still cant work out if its actually worth using .

[Peter Thomas]

Waltzingbear wrote...

I think that Peter Thomas simply made a blunder. +40 health regeneration would in fact be exactly 0.4%.
I wasn't aware of that post and now I can see where the misconception of 1 regen point being 0.025% came from.

Peter is not the messiah he's just a very naughty boy.

I'm just the one with the access to the real behind the scenes numbers. The way the numbers are supposed to be converted is 40 health regeneration = 1%. However, the description for Rally is wrong. It uses the wrong conversion factor in the description string. This makes no change to the actual gameplay effect, it's just the string that shows it wrong. It's not +200 health regeneration, it's +2% effective regeneration for the duration, so the string should actually read +80 instead.

[Waltzingbear]

Oh I can see what you meant by "an error in the string" now. I think that that sentence confused a lot of people.

Well it seems that there is no real problem actually.
All abilities and items I've encountered that provide +regeneration are using the same "wrong" conversion factor of 1 point = 0.01% so there is in fact a consensus there, funnily enough.

I don't know of any item or ability's description that does answer to the 40=1%, so it is still safe to assume that if an ability is described as +100 health regeneration it will regenerate 1% of health pool per second.

Modifié par Waltzingbear, 15 avril 2011 - 10:44 .

[Peter Thomas]

Ok, I just got back and talked to the editor and he said that I was wrong about the conversion factor. He always used x100 for the regeneration values. Could have sworn it was different...

Anyway, as a mea culpa, here are the actual stamina/health regeneration numbers from certain things:

Warrior Base Health Regeneration - 0.25%
Warrior Base Stamina Regeneration - 0.2%
Warrior Kill Stamina Regeneration - 10% per rank (Critter = 1, Normal = 2, Lieutenant = 3, Boss = 4, Elite Boss = 5)
Rally Stamina Regeneration Bonus - +2% for 10s
Unite Stamina Regeneration Bonus - additional +4% for 10s
Deep Reserves Stamina Regeneration Bonus - 0.1%
Berserker Stamima Regeneration Bonus - 0.1%

Rogue Base Health Regeneration - 0.1%
Rogue Base Stamina Regeneration - 0.2%
Rogue Dual Weapon Basic Attack Stamina Regeneration - 0.25% (this is a bug; should be higher)
Rogue Archery Basic Attack Stamina Regeneration - 0.5% (this is a bug; should be higher)
Overtime Stamina Regeneration Bonus - 0.1%
Man of the Crown Health Regeneration Bonus - 0.5%

Mage Base Health Regeneration - 0.1%
Mage Base Mana Regeneration - 0.3%
Elemental Mastery Mana Regeneration Bonus - 0.1%
Galvanism Mana Regeneration Bonus - 0.1%
Spirit Mastery Mana Regeneration Bonus - 0.1%
Vitality Health Regeneration Bonus - 1.0%
No Compromises Health Regeneration Bonus - 0.5%



Health/Stamina/Mana Regeneration Item Property - 0.05%

This is per property, per power level (which is only really visible in the toolset). There is also an item level, but it doesn't affect these particular properties. This is also modified by the type of item the property is on.

     Chest Armor - 1.0
     Helm - 0.4
     Gloves - 0.24
     Boots - 0.36
     Shield - 0.75
     Follower Armor - 2.0
     One Handed Weapon - 0.8
     Two Handed Weapon - 1.0
     Dagger - 0.6
     Bow - 1.0
     Staff - 1.0
     Amulet - 0.4
     Ring - 0.3
     Belt - 0.3

Modifié par Peter Thomas, 18 avril 2011 - 06:47 .

[Waltzingbear]

Peter thanks a lot for this info.
I still need some clarification on the per item properties though.

- Is it multiplied, so for example one Regeneration point on a ring would give 0.015% (0.3 x 0.05%) and one point on a Chest Armor would give 0.05% (1 x 0.05%) ?
- What is this about Power Level? Is it multiplied by another factor then?

Can you give an example of how this will be calculated for an item?
Thanks..

[Peter Thomas]

Waltzingbear wrote...

Peter thanks a lot for this info.
I still need some clarification on the per item properties though.

- Is it multiplied, so for example one Regeneration point on a ring would give 0.015% (0.3 x 0.05%) and one point on a Chest Armor would give 0.05% (1 x 0.05%) ?

Yes, that's how it would work. Some item properties are rounded to the nearest whole number, or at least displayed that way.

- What is this about Power Level? Is it multiplied by another factor then?

Power level is basically a multiplier on the power, which is determined on the item template in our tools. A Power of 2 gives roughly double the bonus. Two items with the same strength but one has a higher property than the other means it has a higher power level for that particular property.

Can you give an example of how this will be calculated for an item?

You have a chest piece that has a property on it that gives a bonus to Strength. For an item of that level, with the property at power level 1, the formulated bonus is 1.4. That particular property is rounded to the nearest whole number, thought, so it would grant +1 Strength. Another item of the same level has the same property, but the power level is 2. The formulated bonus would be 2.8 (2 x 1.4). Rounded to the nearest whole number, it would grant +3 Strength.

If these were on a ring (0.3 multiplier) instead of a chest piece (1.0 multiplier), the power level 1 bonus would be +1 (1.4 x 0.3 = 0.42 rounded to 1). Power level 2 would also be +1 (2.8 x 0.3 = 0.84 rounded to 1), but power level 4 would give a bonus of +2 (5.6 x 0.3 = 1.68 rounded to 2).

[SuicidalBaby]

can we get a sticky on this thread. I believe its more than worthy at this point.

[Waltzingbear]

Let me see how I can arrange all that into a nice neat format without making people's head explode.

[AKOdin]

Interesting. Those item slot modifiers also describe the  behavior of runes of fortune if you note the character chest of 100% is 5%.Boots, helm, shield... everything clicks! Ditto for the +coin drop behavior observed for rings, amulets, etc.
I would guess that means the modifiers are universal to all base item properties?

Edit: Only some of the posts in the thread were appearing. Bah.

Modifié par AKOdin, 19 avril 2011 - 03:21 .

[Waltzingbear]

AKOdin wrote...

I would guess that means the modifiers are universal to all base item properties?

Yeah, that was kinda implied..
The example Peter made was actually using Strength ratings not Regeneration.

[Jannamarie]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Waltzingbear wrote...

Peter thanks a lot for this info.
I still need some clarification on the per item properties though.

- Is it multiplied, so for example one Regeneration point on a ring would give 0.015% (0.3 x 0.05%) and one point on a Chest Armor would give 0.05% (1 x 0.05%) ?

Yes, that's how it would work. Some item properties are rounded to the nearest whole number, or at least displayed that way.

- What is this about Power Level? Is it multiplied by another factor then?

Power level is basically a multiplier on the power, which is determined on the item template in our tools. A Power of 2 gives roughly double the bonus. Two items with the same strength but one has a higher property than the other means it has a higher power level for that particular property.

Can you give an example of how this will be calculated for an item?

You have a chest piece that has a property on it that gives a bonus to Strength. For an item of that level, with the property at power level 1, the formulated bonus is 1.4. That particular property is rounded to the nearest whole number, thought, so it would grant +1 Strength. Another item of the same level has the same property, but the power level is 2. The formulated bonus would be 2.8 (2 x 1.4). Rounded to the nearest whole number, it would grant +3 Strength.

If these were on a ring (0.3 multiplier) instead of a chest piece (1.0 multiplier), the power level 1 bonus would be +1 (1.4 x 0.3 = 0.42 rounded to 1). Power level 2 would also be +1 (2.8 x 0.3 = 0.84 rounded to 1), but power level 4 would give a bonus of +2 (5.6 x 0.3 = 1.68 rounded to 2).

-------------

Peter is the power factor why I see two belts for 3% physical damage (exact same description) with two different sell prices?  I assume the higher powered belt would have the higher selling price?

[Ieolus]

Why would it make sense to (not) display things this way? Two rings, both saying they give 3% physical damage (for example) but really one of them which sells for more has a higher (hidden) "power rating"?

How frustrating.

[Peter Thomas]

Jannamarie wrote...

Peter is the power factor why I see two belts for 3% physical damage (exact same description) with two different sell prices?  I assume the higher powered belt would have the higher selling price?

It might be, but more likely it's because of the hidden level of the item. An item property can have a formula to define what it's bonus is. The final bonus is this formula * power level. The formula for an item property might be something like this:
    (item level * 0.25) + 0.75

That value is then multiplied by the power level of the property. Power levels are basically the number of times that property is on that item.

By the formula, a level 1 item would have a bonus of 1.0 (0.25 + 0.75). Level 2 would have 1.25 (0.5 + 0.75, rounded down to 1). Levels 3-6 would have 1.5-2.25 (all rounded to 2).

The price of an item (and the number of stars it receives in the inventory) is partly based on level, which is why you see discrepancies in price and items with the same rounded property values having different star ratings.

This is an explanation of why it appears that way, not a justification.

Modifié par Peter Thomas, 21 avril 2011 - 12:48 .

[mesmerizedish]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Jannamarie wrote...

Peter is the power factor why I see two belts for 3% physical damage (exact same description) with two different sell prices?  I assume the higher powered belt would have the higher selling price?

It might be, but more likely it's because of the hidden level of the item. An item property can have a formula to define what it's bonus is. The final bonus is this formula * power level. The formula for an item property might be something like this:
    (item level * 0.25) + 0.75

That value is then multiplied by the power level of the property. Power levels are basically the number of times that property is on that item.

By the formula, a level 1 item would have a bonus of 1.0 (0.25 + 0.75). Level 2 would have 1.25 (0.5 + 0.75, rounded down to 1). Levels 3-6 would have 1.5-2.25 (all rounded to 2).

The price of an item (and the number of stars it receives in the inventory) is partly based on level, which is why you see discrepancies in price and items with the same rounded property values having different star ratings.

This is an explanation of why it appears that way, not a justification.

When properties get rounded to the nearest integer, is the effect actually rounded? Or just the tooltip display?

And in either case, why?

[Jannamarie]

Thank you Peter for the explanation. I think have sold all the wrong stuff. oh well, no wonder my first two games were so hard.

[Peter Thomas]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

When properties get rounded to the nearest integer, is the effect actually rounded? Or just the tooltip display?

For most it's the effect rounded, meaning the rounding occurs before the effect is applied to the character. Certain things are rounded in the display, though (like the bonus from Heroic Aura is actually 7.5%, but says 8%).

And in either case, why?

I was told that the decision of no decimals was made for readability reasons.

[mesmerizedish]

Peter Thomas wrote...

For most it's the effect rounded, meaning the rounding occurs before the effect is applied to the character. Certain things are rounded in the display, though (like the bonus from Heroic Aura is actually 7.5%, but says 8%).

I was told that the decision of no decimals was made for readability reasons.

Thank you for responding

I totally disagree with that assessment. WoW rounds to two decimal places, and nerds love it. Not that I'm saying "Be more like WoW!" But you run into situations where you have two items with identical properties, one with five stars and one with zero. Or, even worse, a five-star item with +3% physical damage and a zero-star item with +3% physical damage and +attack or something.

I'm not sure the difference in star rating is ever that dramatic, but I went to extremes to clarify the point.

[JediTerminator]

Wow, even John Carmack would be confused by all of this.
Word to developers... keep it simple next time; The more convoluted your rpg system, the more you confuse your audience as well as yourselves (i.e. more bugs!).

A +1 regen ring should provide +1%/s regen rate!