238 réponses à ce sujet

[scpulley]

I don't regret getting the game really, honestly the second play through was better, but that ending is what pissed fans off. That and the developer interview since release. Protip for the future Bioware, if you game already is sorta getting a mixed review, don't add fuel to the fire with comments about how the game is trying to save the RPG and if you don't see that you just need to keep playing the game till you do. If you still don't, you aren't the target audience anymore because you don't equate 'innovative' with quality.

[randallman]

Volourn wrote...

DA1 was hyped a lot more than DA2. I haven't even seen a tv commerical for DA2 while DA1 had a commericla play all the time. Though, someone from Sweden claimed there was a DA2 commerical there. In comaprison to DA1, DA2's marketing scheme was slim.

.

Saw a DA2 commercial during Ultimate Fight Night (UFC) on Spike TV on Sat. night.

Note, the commercial contains scenes NOT seen in the game :-)  It definitely stretched the bounds of what the game REALLY was.

--Randall

[randallman]

ms_sunlight wrote...

I thought NWN OC was an absolute dog of a game - it had it's moments (I liked the village frozen in time, although that was a side quest and pretty irrelevant to the main story) but generally it was bad storytelling.  Conversely, the two expansion packs rank as two of my favourite games of all time and together make an incredibly engaging story.

Given the current kerfuffle about DA2, it's actually quite interesting to go back and read both the pro and user reviews on Metacritic for NWN OC... www.metacritic.com/game/pc/neverwinter-nights

The NWN1 OC wasnt *awesome*, but at least it adhered to the 3rd ED ruleset *ok*, provided a robust toolkit, and also had 2 of the best expansions to a cRPG ever made :-)  Even though the story in the OC was a bit lacking, I still preferred it to the ''story'' in DA2

--Randall

[Oberonu]

I honestly don't believe it was a complete failure like some are saying, however, I do feel it needed a lot more work before being rushed out.

Lots of bugs n some crashes, too much restraint on what one is allowed to do, and so forth. They should go partly back to their roots while learning more from Baldur's Gate's and Elder Scroll's success as compared to other rpg games. The part that bothered me most are the repetitive maps and the restraints on movement and growth on top of the bugs.

[AkiKishi]

randallman wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

I thought NWN OC was an absolute dog of a game - it had it's moments (I liked the village frozen in time, although that was a side quest and pretty irrelevant to the main story) but generally it was bad storytelling.  Conversely, the two expansion packs rank as two of my favourite games of all time and together make an incredibly engaging story.

Given the current kerfuffle about DA2, it's actually quite interesting to go back and read both the pro and user reviews on Metacritic for NWN OC... www.metacritic.com/game/pc/neverwinter-nights

The NWN1 OC wasnt *awesome*, but at least it adhered to the 3rd ED ruleset *ok*, provided a robust toolkit, and also had 2 of the best expansions to a cRPG ever made :-)  Even though the story in the OC was a bit lacking, I still preferred it to the ''story'' in DA2

--Randall

NWN was split between the toolset and the tacked on OC (which was dire).

Depended which you were most interested in.

[Jerrybnsn]

ToJKa1 wrote...

While i don't hate, nor even dislike DA2, it's good if it sells less than Origins. That'll hopefully make them consider making DA3 more like Origins, which i feel was better.

Or ditch the "RPG" completely and make a Call of Thedas: Templar Warfare (no, i am not serious )

No, I think that's a great idea.  No sense on resting on the laurels of DA2.  Push the gamers boundaries.

[randallman]

BobSmith101 wrote...

NWN was split between the toolset and the tacked on OC (which was dire).

Depended which you were most interested in.

Hey, I played through the OC more than once... Probably 4 times over the 8/9ish years since it was released...

The expansions were great, and the toolset allowed for an insane amount of user-contributed content to be played...  Not really that different from DnD PnP... You could play the boxed campaigns like dragonlance and forgotten realms, but you could also play/DM your own created content.

But alas, with DA2 not having a real toolset and no multiplayer, not seeing the opportunity for that either.

[randallman]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

While i don't hate, nor even dislike DA2, it's good if it sells less than Origins. That'll hopefully make them consider making DA3 more like Origins, which i feel was better.

Or ditch the "RPG" completely and make a Call of Thedas: Templar Warfare (no, i am not serious )

No, I think that's a great idea.  No sense on resting on the laurels of DA2.  Push the gamers boundaries.

Fine, but it would be a game I would not purchase... at least not for 59.99

--Randall

[Nozybidaj]

Galad22 wrote...

At least Treyarch knows who their customers are and makes games for them. Bioware seems to have missed that.

Hehe, that's the point I think they are missing, agreed.  BW claims they make rpg's (says so right there on the box and the advertising) but they don't want to make rpg's, they want to make shooters and action games, and they want to make their non-rpg rpg game for the non-rpg crowd who doesn't want to play rpg games, not even non-rpg rpg games.

Why don't they just drop the pretenses and say "we are making a shooter game" or "we are making an action game" or "we are making an rpg game" then go and do it?  They keep trying to pluck partial audiences from all these different genres and keep ending up with less than the whole of any of them.

If the overarching goal is "to sell 10 million units" then just go make a shooter game and be done with it.  Once folks figure out they aren't going to be making rpg's anymore (because they would finally just say so) the off the charts level of whining might die down a bit as the rpg'ers leave and the shooters come in.

[Killer3000ad]

If true hopefully Bioware will reflect on their actions and make or rather reverse certain changes they made to DA2. The DA franchise can still be saved but it requires Bioware to stop thinking about the casual/COD crowd and appeal to it's original base, the hardcore RPG fans.

[Jerrybnsn]

Wasn't there any eyebrows raised when it was announced DA was going on facebook?  How come nobody on the Mass Effect department said, "We need to go after the Farmville crowd."?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 28 mars 2011 - 08:45 .

[Volourn]

"At least Treyarch knows who their customers are and makes games for them. Bioware seems to have missed that."

Yup. Welcome to the wonderful world of NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, ME2, and DA1. This is the same exact nonsense people were spouting when those games came out too.

It's all silly whining that means nothing. BIO knows their customers more than any of us do. If they didn't, the dcos wouldn't have been able to sell their company for a billion +.

They owe the internet geeks who cry NOTHING. BIO. They told us point blank what DA2 was gonna be like prior to rleease. there was no secret, no lies, no innuendo. We all know the characetr system, the graphics, the combat, the story, etc. were getting some changes.. so, if you bought it knowing all that look in the mirror and stop pouting.

But, hey, I was there when NWN came out and people said it was 'proof' they were doomed. NEARLY 10 YEARS LATER, BIO is still going.

Even TOB was used as 'proof' that BIO was 'selling out' for cheap $. LMAO

[Night Prowler76]

Volourn wrote...

"At least Treyarch knows who their customers are and makes games for them. Bioware seems to have missed that."

Yup. Welcome to the wonderful world of NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, ME2, and DA1. This is the same exact nonsense people were spouting when those games came out too.

It's all silly whining that means nothing. BIO knows their customers more than any of us do. If they didn't, the dcos wouldn't have been able to sell their company for a billion +.

They owe the internet geeks who cry NOTHING. BIO. They told us point blank what DA2 was gonna be like prior to rleease. there was no secret, no lies, no innuendo. We all know the characetr system, the graphics, the combat, the story, etc. were getting some changes.. so, if you bought it knowing all that look in the mirror and stop pouting.

But, hey, I was there when NWN came out and people said it was 'proof' they were doomed. NEARLY 10 YEARS LATER, BIO is still going.

Even TOB was used as 'proof' that BIO was 'selling out' for cheap $. LMAO

My fanboy radar is going crazy...oh its you again, should have known.

[Gatt9]

Volourn wrote...

"At least Treyarch knows who their customers are and makes games for them. Bioware seems to have missed that."

Yup. Welcome to the wonderful world of NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, ME2, and DA1. This is the same exact nonsense people were spouting when those games came out too.

It's all silly whining that means nothing. BIO knows their customers more than any of us do. If they didn't, the dcos wouldn't have been able to sell their company for a billion +.

They owe the internet geeks who cry NOTHING. BIO. They told us point blank what DA2 was gonna be like prior to rleease. there was no secret, no lies, no innuendo. We all know the characetr system, the graphics, the combat, the story, etc. were getting some changes.. so, if you bought it knowing all that look in the mirror and stop pouting.

But, hey, I was there when NWN came out and people said it was 'proof' they were doomed. NEARLY 10 YEARS LATER, BIO is still going.

Even TOB was used as 'proof' that BIO was 'selling out' for cheap $. LMAO

They have don't know their fans,  DA2 stands as evidence.

Further,  as near as I can tell from NPD numbers,  no Bioware game prior to DAO sold more than 2 million units.  So EA didn't buy them because they make alot of money.

Truth is,  EA bought Bioware for Star Wars,  and no other reason.  They thought it'd get WoW subscriptions,  and they want the money.  EA didn't care about Bioware's RPGs and have them making their games as Actiony as possible to try to get the Mass Market,  rather than making quality.

So no,  you're pretty much wrong on all points.  EA only wanted them for SW,  not for their RPG talent.

[Volourn]

"no Bioware game prior to DAO sold more than 2 million units. "

ARE YOU KIDDING?

The BIO games that sold 2mil+ copies prior to DA1 are as follows: BG1, BG2, NWN, KOTOR, and ME. And, maybe even JE2 now that it's been out for 6 years ( i know it has sold at least 1.5-2mil copies).

Seriously, do you pay attention or make stuff up?


"My fanboy radar is going crazy...oh its you again, should have known."

Things To Do If You Are A BIO Fanboy:

1. DON'T buy all their games

2. Rate NWN OC 75%

3. Call KOTOR overrated

4. criticize BIO for a lot of their decisions.

CONCLUSION: That's a TRUE BIO fanboy. R00fles!

[randallman]

Gatt9 wrote...

They have don't know their fans,  DA2 stands as evidence.

Further,  as near as I can tell from NPD numbers,  no Bioware game prior to DAO sold more than 2 million units.  So EA didn't buy them because they make alot of money.

Truth is,  EA bought Bioware for Star Wars,  and no other reason.  They thought it'd get WoW subscriptions,  and they want the money.  EA didn't care about Bioware's RPGs and have them making their games as Actiony as possible to try to get the Mass Market,  rather than making quality.

So no,  you're pretty much wrong on all points.  EA only wanted them for SW,  not for their RPG talent.

I think we can all agree.... This ''game'' did not appeal to the MAJORITY of bioware's traditional fans.

To state anything other than this is insanity.

All of the rest of the argument is really moot.

--Randall

[scq]

OMG! It's a commercial fail?

Time to sell that EA stock because it's clearly tanking: http://www.google.co...b&q=NASDAQ:ERTS

DA2 may not be a top seller, but it's selling well. It'll be hard for any game other than Call of Duty Modern Warfare 27 to top Mass Effect, so to try to compare DA sales to the ME universe is just absurd. DA2 is strong compared to the dozens of forgettable games that still turn profits.

[Volourn]

" This ''game'' did not appeal to the MAJORITY of bioware's traditional fans."

Just like NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2 'didn't' either.. R00fles!

[Night Prowler76]

Volourn wrote...

" This ''game'' did not appeal to the MAJORITY of bioware's traditional fans."

Just like NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2 'didn't' either.. R00fles!

Fanboy radar going into critical state, can no longer handle the amount of fanboyism, need assistance.

[Volourn]

Were you on the BIO baords when those games were released? if you were, you would know what I mean.

I hope you enjoyed Sonic 'cause I sure as heck didn't. You also betetr go ****** over the overrated KOTOR. LMAO

[MrTijger]

randallman wrote...

I think we can all agree.... This ''game'' did not appeal to the MAJORITY of bioware's traditional fans.

To state anything other than this is insanity.

All of the rest of the argument is really moot.

--Randall

Sorry? Nice of you to make such a sweeping statement but eh...I've played Bioware games since BG and I happen to like DA 2 and so does my wife. So I call BS. A portion of fans feels that DA 2 did not appeal to them, yes, how big that crowd is will become clear when we have official sales figures but I can tell you this...if those sales exceed DAO (and I suspect they will) then you better start getting used to this new world.

[randallman]

Volourn wrote...

" This ''game'' did not appeal to the MAJORITY of bioware's traditional fans."

Just like NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2 'didn't' either.. R00fles!

Saying r00fles at the end of your message is very drôle...  But that's ad hominem and largely irrelevent... 

I liked NWN, I liked KOTOR, I liked ME1, I liked DA:0, HECK... I didn't even complain not one bit about ME2... The changes were warranted given the genre.

I am, however, complaining about this thing called DA2...

What folks fail to realize is that we hate this game more than any other game ever made by Bioware (excepting Sonic which I never even tried)!  Comparing it to NWN or to ME1 or KOTOR is not useful.

DA2 was a sequel; irrespective of whatever the developers in their infinite wisdom decided to proclaim during pre-release notifications, we had the idea that DA2 would bear a reasonable resemblance to the game for which Bioware claimed this was, in fact, a sequel.  Unfortunately, it did not.  It SO did not.

Can't we all at least agree that many of the games shortcomings need to be remediated prior to DA3 or an expansion?  I think we can ALL agree that area recycles need to be kept to a minimum such that they dont become the predominating feature of the game.  I think we can ALL agree that if we're going to be doing combat in waves, mobs should not appear out of thin air notwithstanding a lore-based explanation as to why.  I think we can all agree that the game should havebeen a tad bit longer.

Beyond that, we might disagree heavily on the other mechanics changes.  Perhaps those changes would have been acceptable if the story and immersion were kept...

--Randall

[Warheadz]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Volourn wrote...

" This ''game'' did not appeal to the MAJORITY of bioware's traditional fans."

Just like NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2 'didn't' either.. R00fles!

Fanboy radar going into critical state, can no longer handle the amount of fanboyism, need assistance.

Reinforcements have arrived.

Seriously, that's not even fanboyism anymore. Obvious troll is obvious.

[Night Prowler76]

Volourn wrote...

Were you on the BIO baords when those games were released? if you were, you would know what I mean.

I hope you enjoyed Sonic 'cause I sure as heck didn't. You also betetr go ****** over the overrated KOTOR. LMAO

Breaking out the fanboy radar x3000 prototype, hopefully it can handle this amount of pure fanboy power *crosses fingers*.

[Night Prowler76]

Warheadz wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Volourn wrote...

" This ''game'' did not appeal to the MAJORITY of bioware's traditional fans."

Just like NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME, DA, and ME2 'didn't' either.. R00fles!

Fanboy radar going into critical state, can no longer handle the amount of fanboyism, need assistance.

Reinforcements have arrived.

Seriously, that's not even fanboyism anymore. Obvious troll is obvious.

I would swear he was Drogo45, but he writes more than him haha