18 réponses à ce sujet

[Winter sounds_]

Warriors seem to command te battlefield but tend to have to do it being stuck in one spot. Rogues don't take on crowds as much but can be wherever they want on the battlefield more or less.

I just can't decide. Help! Detailed reasons for and against are welcome. Thank you.

[AreleX]

Give my build a try (guide link in signature), if these are the problems plaguing your decision. You get Rogue speed + mobility (and then some) with Warrior power in a single, wonderfully vicious package.

Modifié par AreleX, 26 mars 2011 - 12:44 .

[Running_Blind]

Winter sounds wrote...

Warriors seem to command te battlefield but tend to have to do it being stuck in one spot.

I disagree, with rush attacks Warriors are very mobile. Especially a Two-Hander with Scythe.

[Hekynn]

I'm trying out the Rouge now and wow they do alot of damage which is crazy fun!

[Winter sounds_]

I'm so torn. Thanks for that link by the way. What I've always like about the rogue is how they can be anywhere should a Mage need saving etc.

[Winter sounds_]

Might just be me but in this one, rogues clearly seem like a supporting class. Maybe it was the same in Origins, but regardless my rogue was just as hard as the warriors.

[Musou1776]

Rogue seems to have superior dps vs single target and warrior particularly 2h vs multiple.

[DA Trap Star]

Rogues are better for single targets, Warriors have no skill that can match the assassinate talent.
Warriors are better with large crowds and they have high fortitude so they won't get knocked back as much.

[Winter sounds_]

Anyone played both a 2HW and Duel Rogue who can comment on what they felt had more control over battles?

[Moonstryder]

Played as both, Dual rogue can be very tatical because you are constantly managing aggro and deciding which targets to assassinate or focus fire. You will learn to love the usage of obscure effects.

Warrior is about setting up your team to best complement your character. Both are fun but I find rogue combat to be to most strategic.



On a side note.... are there any in depth rogue/mage guides like Arelex's warrior build.

Modifié par Moonstryder, 27 mars 2011 - 12:52 .

[JasmoVT]

I have just finished a two handed warrior after a previous run with a dual wielding rogue. I played them very differentl. The rogue zoomed around the field taking out mages and arches before zeroing in on any bosses or swooping in to save one of my mages. The two handed took agro with groups of melee and using multi kills and knockbacks to protect the mages. As a side note, I actually found the Malbari was very good at tying up mages and archers until I got to them eventhough I had no control over it.

[alyssamilanoo]

I've played both and I'm leaning towards liking the DW rogue a bit better than the Warrior. Like someone else mentioned, with the DW rogue, you can pretty much instantly take out the support roles of opposing parties, 'archers' and 'mages' are pretty much gone instantly because you can fly around the map via backstab. Once you're done with the stragglers, you pretty much own bosses because DW Rogues have the highest DPS of all the classes, the skill 'Assassinate' produces the highest amount of damage you'll ever see combined with all the 'Critical' bonuses you get with the talents you choose, you'll see a lot of one hit kills on trash opponents and sub-bosses and also a lot of getting big bosses to half life in one blow with the DW Rogue...

Warriors on the other hand, from my experience, are less tactical, because of their build and high fortitude, you'll find yourself not getting knocked back or stunned as much and you'll finish fights quicker because you hit multiple targets as opposed to laying waste to single targets one by one.

But yeah, I prefer the DW Rogue, well because the playstyle is much more involved. And also, although there were better daggers to choose from, the combination of Cartas Left & Right Hand was insane.

Cartas Left Hand:

+87 attack
+10% critical damage
Immunity to knockback
25% chance to reduce attack speed
25% chance to reduce movement speed

Cartas Right Hand:

+87 attack
+4% critical chance
+10% critical damage
5% chance to stun

More than makes up for not having any rune slots.

[AreleX]

Winter sounds wrote...

Anyone played both a 2HW and Duel Rogue who can comment on what they felt had more control over battles?

I've played both, and I have to say Warrior. While it can't match DW Rogue for single target spike damage (which is sort of negligible any way, with good tactics), it's got it beaten everywhere else

[Jaekahn]

I haven't had much experience as a Warrior just yet but I have played all forms of rogue and I have completed a playthrough as a mage. Ideally, rogues are support classes who use elusiveness as their tactic. Whether it is slipping in and out of stealth, using obscurity to increase the chance that they will dodge normal attacks, or simply slip behind targets or shoot from afar; whatever it may be, they rely heavily on strategizing oppose to a warrior who has the ability to just charge everything and whack them to hell.

Rogues have the hugest single target burst in the game, which is perfect for focusing elites and bosses. Combine Mark of Death, pinpoint strikes and assassinate with a mage's brittle or a warrior's stagger and you'll see their health drop fast, no matter how large the health pool is. The benefit to playing rogue is that both options (Archer and DW) serve as a great damage dealing class, unlike a warrior who has two hand and sword and shield. Two hand has incredible damage, but SnS' damage lacks in replace for incredible survivability.

Your decision solely rests on what you prefer to play. Are you a brute who would like to spent less time managing your teammates and just charge in effortlessly with powerful strikes, or are you an elusive, tactical team player?

[AreleX]

It makes my eye twitch when people say things that basically equate to 'Warrior is all about brute force and ignorance'. If you enjoy dying, being weak, and succeeding through dumb luck, it is. If you want to consistently dominate on Nightmare (anything else, you could headbutt enemies to death and be fine), you're going to need teamwork almost every second of every fight, not mashing buttons like a child who forgot to take his Ritalin.

[Zan Mura]

Winter sounds wrote...

Anyone played both a 2HW and Duel Rogue who can comment on what they felt had more control over battles?

Played exactly as both.

2h definitely has more control overall, but the thing is that 2h is mostly a trash mob killer. Mages can deal with trash, tanks can deal with trash, even properly specced rogues can deal with trash (although they're not exactly "great" at that job). 2h just does it alone and much *much* faster than any other class. Especially with warriorHawke 2h, you can become powerful enough to also handle rogues and lieutenants, even act as great DPS against bosses, but those are clearly primarily rogue areas. Gameplay-wise, 2h are easy and comfortable to play with. But they also get damned boring real fast. Basically it's just sustainables + Cleave, and then run in with Scythe - Mighty Blow - Whirlwind, rinse & repeat every time.

A dagger rogue assassin & duelist spec, is a specialist. They don't deal in trash, and if you want to play comfortable and easy as I do, they don't really even partake at all in many fights. They just sit back and wait with the mage, because the 2h / tank / mages can deal with most fights fare more easily. But when enemy assassins, mages, lieutenants, other elites or bosses appear, that's when a rogue goes crazy. They can singlehandedly pick off practically anything but a boss. Especially if backed up by CCC's (cross class combos, STAGGER + Vendetta, BRITTLE + Assassinate, etc). And not one, but like 2 or more at a single sitting. Gameplay-wise rogues require extreme personal control. To function properly, they need to set up with the right skills before attacking, they absolutely want CCC support, and they absolutely need to stay away from all aggro since they're basically as soft as mages and die to a single stray hit from your 2h (in Nightmare with FF, of course) etc. But they are unique and incredibly useful when done right.

In my opinion your warriorHawke 2h is not all that different from Fenris. Your mageHawke isn't that different from Beth/Merrill/Anders. But a dagger rogue is completely different from anything else in the game. Playing Varric or Isabela gives you no clue really about what a rogueHawke is like. It's a beast, you're going to kill stuff like you wouldn't believe. Named enemies that used to take minutes of intense fighting being reduced to simple 2-second fragfests. Things that people say are hard fights, then you go in and with a few seconds of setup produce a nice 6k + 6k + 22k crit combo and kill it like it was trash, finding yourself drooling your mouth open and going "huh, that was it"?

But as said, depends on what you're looking for. 2h kills most mobs in the party, rogues kills practically all of the elites and above in the party. 2h is easier to play, rogues require a lot of microing. Pick whichever one you like most. Keep in mind that I am extremely biased myself. Many people like 2h, I found it far too boring to my liking, but am completely in love with my rogue.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 27 mars 2011 - 02:24 .

[Zan Mura]

AreleX wrote...

It makes my eye twitch when people say things that basically equate to 'Warrior is all about brute force and ignorance'. If you enjoy dying, being weak, and succeeding through dumb luck, it is. If you want to consistently dominate on Nightmare (anything else, you could headbutt enemies to death and be fine), you're going to need teamwork almost every second of every fight, not mashing buttons like a child who forgot to take his Ritalin.

Obviously playing a methodical team-oriented game is always better. But it really is NOT needed in most fights even on Nightmare. Fenris is clearly weaker than a 2h-Hawke, yet even with him, my base tactic would be to just send him in alone and put everyone else on hold. MOST of the time after lvl 14-16 or so, Fenris would just tear right through everything. And that definitely didn't require any skill. Just mashing "attack closest target" button and keeping Cleave on. A 2h cleaver is a monster, and you don't need fancy stuff like Chain Lightning on the STAGGERs or whatever else as he tears through trash and those weak elites solo anyway.

The odd fight when Fenris alone wasn't enough or mobs spawned from behind, I'd just Barrier / Heal Fenris, send Aveline in as backup to grab the aggro. And then proceed to change to actually smart teamplay tactics. Not a whole lot of dumb luck required.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 27 mars 2011 - 02:30 .

[Jaekahn]

AreleX wrote...

It makes my eye twitch when people say things that basically equate to 'Warrior is all about brute force and ignorance'. If you enjoy dying, being weak, and succeeding through dumb luck, it is. If you want to consistently dominate on Nightmare (anything else, you could headbutt enemies to death and be fine), you're going to need teamwork almost every second of every fight, not mashing buttons like a child who forgot to take his Ritalin.

That wasn't what I meant in my statement. What I meant that a rogue is given a lot more abilities that serve as support abilities, such as smoke bomb, miasmic bomb, back-to-back, goad, armistrice, etc. These abilities are meant to negate damage to other targets such as your tank, or to add difficulty for your enemies to hit you. They're centered around trickery and if you are to put trickery into any game, I would say it goes hand in hand with strategizing.

Warriors can be tanks, yes. They can taunt off others or turn their attention to enemies attacking your healers. But aside from abilities that generate threat, they really don't have anything that needs any strategy aside from the typical CCC (which is equal with all three classes.) You even said in your guide that your build is centered around sustainables and basic attacks.

Now on Nightmare, I can safely assume that the difficulty is intense for all classes no matter what specialty you are. I haven't ventured into Nightmare yet, more than likely waiting till I finish all three classes on hard first. But it does appear difficult.

Regardless, I am not discrediting you or the effort you put into your guide. It does take dedication and skill to go through Nightmare and to create a comprehensive guide in which I intend to use to the fullest when I play my warrior. I thank you for your time and effort for the guide itself is very helpful and even aided me in understanding tactics with players a little more.

[brazen_nl]

While I agree that threat management is very nice, I'd rather have that done by tactics (ie. another rogue) than myself, so you don't have to pause the game all the time to check and take care of it. I would then be playing with two rogues, a warrior and one mage. And I do like my team to have two mages. But, having played both ways, they both have their charm.