37 réponses à ce sujet

[MikeFL25]

For those of you who have not read Harry Potter...

*spoilers*

A horcrux is a magical object in which a person stores  part of their soul.  In the event that the person is killed, they will not truly die because a part of their soul is alive in the horcrux, and can eventually obtain a new body.  These are super dark magic stuff and rarely anyone dares to attempt to make one.

When Flemeth came out of the locket Hawke asked "You could have told me you were inside the locket" and Flemeth replies "only a part."  She also insinuated that Morrigan will have attempted, and succeded, in killing her (i.e. Morrigan's loyalty quest where the Warden kills Flemeth and obtains her grimoire).  This means that her concieousness was tranferred to the part of her soul in the locket so when Merrill performed the ritual Flemeth was "alive" again.

This is pretty much an exact copy of horcruxes as understood within Harry Potter lore.  So the question remains, if Flemeth can use "horcruxes" or magic similar to them, do you think this will have an affect on future Dragon Age story?  Having a character like Flemeth that apparently cannot die could create some very interesting circumstances.  

[Statulos]

Sorry to tell you this, pal; but you sound fairly new to fantasy RPG´s:

Flemeth´s trick is as old as D&D. It´s called phylactery and that is the reason why liches are so tought to defeat.

If you want to play the philology card, to me Flemeth has a very clear slavic inspiration: she reminds me a lot from Baba Yaga and Koschei.

Modifié par Statulos, 26 mars 2011 - 05:58 .

[Dr. Catt]

As a concept placing apart of your soul in another object to protect your whole being is extremely common in fantasy. It's not a copy of anything in Harry Potter. Lichs use phylacteries for example (in AD&D at any rate and most likely in general mythology as well).

That said it's quite apparent that Flemeth is basically a deus ex machina plot device and this locket was a means of keeping her alive into DA:3.

I wouldn't say that the fact that she's done it once means she will do it again if there is the potential to fight her in DA3. The main question I am interested in is what role she will play in that game. If she continues to be a deus ex machina then I will be a little disappointed. I would like her character to evolve into one more centrally involved in the plot.

[The Angry One]

Deus Ex Machina? The basis for Flemeth surviving is established in DA:O, at no point is it ever even implied that Flemeth is gone for good and that's *if* you kill her.

[Nimpe]

Oh my god, and Merrill is Luna Lovegood.

[MCPOWill]

ITS A PHYLACTORY NOT A HORCRUX!!!!

...ok now that that is out of the way... yes Flemeth stored a bit of her soul into a object aka a phylactory (which is why Voldemort in Harry Potter is a Lich) Dunno if that means Flemeth is a Lich. They haven't had an appearance in DAO yet so my bet is that Flemeth is an "Purified" Old God, because how would a ritual that is about purifying old god exist if it has never been used? meaning the Dark Ritual has be done before by another Grey Warden, or just one if you Warden didn't partake in Morrigans exchange.

Modifié par MCPOWill, 26 mars 2011 - 06:11 .

[Dr. Catt]

The Angry One wrote...

Deus Ex Machina? The basis for Flemeth surviving is established in DA:O, at no point is it ever even implied that Flemeth is gone for good and that's *if* you kill her.

She saves both protagonists in both games early in the plots which is what enables the story to actually proceed.

Without Flemeth the character of 'The Champion' and 'The Warden' would never have existed. That's why she's a deus ex machina plot device.

Edit: I don't view this necessarily as lazy writing as it's heavily implied, to my mind anyway, that Flemeth has other objectives that spread way beyond the plots of both DA:O and DA2. This is why I hope this aspect of the plot as a whole is developed in the third game.

Modifié par Dr. Catt, 26 mars 2011 - 06:11 .

[Utoryo]

There's a big difference between a phylactery/horcrux and what Flemeth does, because she implies she can be in multiple places at the same time. If you didn't kill Flemeth in DA1, that version of her might still exist. So in a way it's more of a cloning device than a survival one, although she uses it mostly as the latter.

[Volourn]

"This is pretty much an exact copy of horcruxes as understood within Harry Potter lore."

Harry Potter lore... stealing 'generic' fantasy lore since.. whenever it came out.. thenj its fans claiming others took the idea from HP. L0LZ


BTW.. The term horcruxes is just lame.. phylactery just sounds cooler...

[Coik]

What I wonder about this is: say the Warden didn't kill Flemeth. Does that mean there are two of them running around Thedas now?

[Statulos]

Coik wrote...

What I wonder about this is: say the Warden didn't kill Flemeth. Does that mean there are two of them running around Thedas now?

That would give some credit to Morrigan´s theory of daughter body stealing. Perhaps not in the way she thought, though.

[Thrennion]

Who's to say Hawke's the only one who was given an amulet before Flemeth's anticipated death? There could be even more than two of her running around. D:

[Coik]

Thrennion wrote...

Who's to say Hawke's the only one who was given an amulet before Flemeth's anticipated death? There could be even more than two of her running around. D:

Hmm...infinite Flemeths.  That would be an interesting (not to mention terrifying) situation.

[Maria Caliban]

MikeFL25 wrote...

A horcrux is a magical object in which a person stores  part of their soul.

Phylactery!

Dr. Catt wrote...

Lichs use phylacteries for example (in AD&D at any rate and most likely in general mythology as well).

If by mythology you mean modern fantasy, sure.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 26 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[PantheraOnca]

Multiple Flemeths just means more awesome walking around Thedas laughing its crazy old head off. I love it. DA3 better have a party composed entirely of Flemeths.

[Coik]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Multiple Flemeths just means more awesome walking around Thedas laughing its crazy old head off. I love it. DA3 better have a party composed entirely of Flemeths.

Morrigan comes back and finds an entire town of Flemeths.

I think her reaction would be amusing.

[maegi46]

Actually I think if you didn't kill Flemeth there are now 3 Flemeths running around. Morrigan technically is Flemeth, she was being groomed for a takeover. Flemeth tells you in DA2 she raised Morrigan therefore knows what she's going to do and that "if I know my Morrigan, she already has" meaning set up the warden to kill her.

[Bathead]

Perhaps this could explain why Leliana shows up in DA2 after some players had killed her in DA:O?
Hm?

[greyman33]

Bathead wrote...

Perhaps this could explain why Leliana shows up in DA2 after some players had killed her in DA:O?
Hm?

You're saying she's Flemeth now?

I figure she just used the 'feign death' ability from Origins or something like that...  Dunno.

As for Flemeth, I suppose there could well be two of her running around.  She may not even know, actually.  She does tell you the amulet was more of an insurance policy than anything else, in case her daughter convinced the Warden to kill her back in the Wilds.

Just a couple other thoughts I was having here, while we're on the subject...  Is it possible that there have always been more than one Flemeth?  Rather, there have often been more than one?  If she is actually more or less immortal, at least exceptionally long-lived she may have copied herself multiple times and actually been her own daughters more than once.  Might even have had nothing to do with herself and, as now (potentially), been in two countries at once.  After all, the was Merril and Merithani react when you show them the locket seems to imply that they know full well Flemeth is in there (remember the "It's not wise to keep Ashe'belenar waiting" comments Merril makes on the way up Sundermount), so she had to have done this at least a few times before.

Also, I'm wondering if she really did plan to just up and posess Morrigan after all.  I'm not saying that wasn't the plan, but the way Flemeth speaks to Hawke had me wondering.  Hawke and his companions have never met Flemeth or Morrigan before (well, I suppose Hawke may have seen Morrigan briefly as she and the Warden passed through town just ahead of the blight), and Flemeth wold have had no real reason to lie or fake anything.  When she refers to Morrigan it is always as her daughter, and with the slightly exasperated tone of the mother of a rebellious teen.

It just seems like if Morrigan was nothing more than a tool (as, Morrigan tells the warden, many generations of girls have been in the past) then Flemeth would either not have mentioned her at all, or not have made it seem like she had a real personal, emotional connection to her.  Just my 2 cents though.

[Statulos]

Maria Caliban wrote...

MikeFL25 wrote...

A horcrux is a magical object in which a person stores  part of their soul.

Phylactery!

Dr. Catt wrote...

Lichs use phylacteries for example (in AD&D at any rate and most likely in general mythology as well).

If by mythology you mean modern fantasy, sure.

The lich as the undead necromancer is indeed a Robert E. Howard idea that got reshaped by other authors. But the actual inspiration from real mythology exists. Koschei is the closest character to the modern lich and the needle in the island of Buyan is the inspiration for the phylactery.

[RubiconI7]

Flemeth meet...uh...Flemeth!

[Bathead]

greyman33 wrote...

Bathead wrote...

Perhaps this could explain why Leliana shows up in DA2 after some players had killed her in DA:O?
Hm?

You're saying she's Flemeth now?

I figure she just used the 'feign death' ability from Origins or something like that...  Dunno.

No, I'm just asking if it's possible that there was a " piece" of Leliana in an amulet somewhere like in this deal with Flemeth. It's a stretch, I know, it's merely a suggestion for those who can't seem to wrap their heads around Lelliana being alive in DA2.

[HTTP 404]

I think she's an avatar of some old god. Wishful thinking

[genuine666]

The Angry One wrote...

Deus Ex Machina? The basis for Flemeth surviving is established in DA:O, at no point is it ever even implied that Flemeth is gone for good and that's *if* you kill her.

ye i agree with you on that as in DAO even if you kill Flemeth  Morrigan says it will only give here time to prepare for when she comes back

[genuine666]

Bathead wrote...

greyman33 wrote...

Bathead wrote...

Perhaps this could explain why Leliana shows up in DA2 after some players had killed her in DA:O?
Hm?

You're saying she's Flemeth now?

I figure she just used the 'feign death' ability from Origins or something like that...  Dunno.

No, I'm just asking if it's possible that there was a " piece" of Leliana in an amulet somewhere like in this deal with Flemeth. It's a stretch, I know, it's merely a suggestion for those who can't seem to wrap their heads around Lelliana being alive in DA2.

the way they explain this is that we only thort that she died but really she went off with out saying good by same with the other you can kill of in DAO

Modifié par genuine666, 27 mars 2011 - 12:19 .