198 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Sarah, making people fear Merrill isn't going to help facilitate her return to the clan, and that's my problem with her actions. She wants Merrill to come back, but she instigates fear of her, when all she's doing is trying to restore a piece of ancient technology. Since she purposefully keeps the clan in Sundermount because of Merrill, I don't see the rationale in her actions. If she wants to protect the clan because she's concerned, that's one thing, but since she wants Merrill to come back, her actions seem contradictory to her goal. In fact, accepting the demon into her body endangers all the people in her clan.

"Only logical possibility"? Your opinion on the issue isn't incontestable fact, especially when we don't know what the truth is.

I explained it made sense because she's in a completely foreign environment, I never addressed any point about it being a flaw or not. And she's not most people - she was never raised with the concept of a city or human culture. She's Dalish.

[Sarah1281]

Since when was Marethari telling people about Merrill meant to facilitate her return to the clan? It was meant to keep them safe from her in case the worst came to pass.

You seem to be taking the fact that I used words like 'must have' and 'only logical possibility' and ignore what I'm saying must be the case.

I'm going to try to simplify this as much as possible.

I am not saying that Marethari warned Merrill about the demon. But it is a possibility. Are we agreed on that? Since Marethari was worried about the demon and Merrill never says that Marethari didn't warn her, Marethari could have done this. I am not saying that Merrill did not put a lot of thought into her decision. I am not saying that IF Marethari told her about the demon that she immediately ignored it. Is it the word ignored that's the problem? You can replace it with a synonym with different connotations if you'd like.

Still, since we know that Merrill decided to go with her plan anyway, IF the Keeper told Merrill about the demon and we KNOW that Merrill chose to make a deal with a demon anyway THEN WE ALSO KNOW that Merrill ultimately chose not to listen to the Keeper.

This is not my opinion. Whether the Keeper told Merrill or not is my opinion.

If we assume that A (Keeper tells Merrill) is true and we know that B (Merrill makes a deal with a demon against her Keeper's wishes) is true then C (Merrill makes a deal with a demon even though the Keeper tells her why it is a bad idea) MUST be true. Yes, I used an absolute. Try to look past that.

And try to remember that I'm not even claiming that this MUST be the case. Just that if A happpened then C happened. If A happens is an opinion or not. C being true if A is true is a given. That is logic. It is not up for debate. A is up for debate.

Okay, is it a flaw that she can go three years and still get lost frequently? I don't think it matters where she grew up. Three years is more than enough time for her to get a basic grasp on her immediate geography. She's not stupid, after all.

[DoNotIngest]

You two wanna take this to the Merrill thread? Or actually, that's for Appreciation. How about PMs? This is the Hawke's Badassness Thread.

Merrill 100%

[pimple]

Well, I have done most of the things listed at one point or another, so I am not sure it is the worst thing I have done, but I always cheat on my current lover with Zevran.  Always.  The first time Anders was just not on that quest by chance, but all of the times since I have purposefully omitted my current partner just to sleep with Zevran behind their back.  I have an obsessive love problem when it comes to Zevran.  I want him to be my baby dady (I will raise it in secret with Anders and when it finds out its dad is an assasin, it won't even be upset because assassin trumps terrorist).

P.S. Merill was my first rival. 

[Ashwraith]

What, you mean other than my RogueHawke gleefully murdering her way through a percentage of Kirkwall's population?
And then cutting off their fingers as trophies (oh, come on, it was part of the job)?
...Oh, you mean things that were actually in the game. And not, um. In my head.
*ahem*
Well, there was that time I told the poor starving urchin kid to go stuff it, and then took all his loot...  and assisted in the manufacturing and sale of deadly deadly poison... and told someone's husband I'd found his wife's severed hand in a bag. >.>
Yeah. I haven't gotten too terribly far into the game with that character. But it's fun trampling on people's feelings, nevertheless. :3

[LobselVith8]

I addressed the contradiction in the Keeper Marethari wanting Merrill to return to the clan with her actions that made it increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to ever return.

Allow me to simplify the issue; we have no idea what the truth is. Nothing is really known about what might have happened, what could be true from what's false, or how accurate the abomination Marethari's claims were.

Three years to adapt to a culture she knows nothing about, though.

[Sarah1281]

Allow me to simplify the issue; we have no idea what the truth is. Nothing is really known about what might have happened, what could be true from what's false, or how accurate the abomination Marethari's claims were.

And that doesn't matter in what I was saying. It doesn't matter if Merrill was 100%, if Marethari was 100%, or if it was somewhere in between. If Marethari was right or wrong, then if she warned Merrill about her theory of what the demon was after then Merrill (whether she was right or wrong) MUST HAVE chosen to do what she wanted to anyway. That's not an opinion, that is canon. The part about Merrill doing what she wanted despite the Keeper's objection, mind you, not the part where Marethari may or may not have warned her about something that may or may not have been a threat. That's ALL I'm saying.

It is perfectly acceptable to use absolutes in a theory as long as you establish first that it's a conditional.

And it's not like Merrill needs to  be a human expert. She just needs to stop getting lost on her way to buy food.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 27 mars 2011 - 06:17 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

Merrill debates show up everywhere. Incredible. Just shows what an incredible success the writers had with her.

Anyway, let's see... worst thing my Hawke has done . . .

Probably killing a few blood mages, I guess? Or fighting for Isbela? The things I do for XP. . .

Nah, actually, killing Danarius was the worst. I felt rotten about that for days. In fact, I still do.

[Sarah1281]

Nah, actually, killing Danarius was the worst. I felt rotten about that for days. In fact, I still do.

Really? Why? He's an unrepentent slaver and a blood mage who killed a little boy in order to show off for his friends among many other sordid deeds.

[Emperor Iaius I]

He is a Magister and Senator of the Imperium. I had no right to kill him when all he wanted to do was retrieve an investment. If I had any decency, I would have given Fenris to him and asked if I could learn under his tutelege, perhaps become a magister someday.

I mean, that stupid elf kept telling me that I would become just like the magisters one day. The nicest thing I could do for him is to prove him right.

[LobselVith8]

We will never know what actually transpired between Merrill and Marethari unless the devs or DLC explore the story.

If she spent most of her time trying to restore a two thousand year old piece of technology because she thought it would help her people, are you surprised she's not more accustomed to human culture and Kirkwall? She spent her years learning all the lore and information necessary to become Keeper, not an expert on human culture.

[Sarah1281]

...I'm going to assume that that's sarcasm.

[LobselVith8]

Unless Danarius offered a position of power within the Imperium, why would your character consider handing Fenris over to him, Emperor Iaius?

[Arppis]

I guess joking about Vicount's son's death. That's about it. I would count killing Anders as a good deed.

[LobselVith8]

It's in-character POV, Sarah. Pro-Tevinter POV at that.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Sarah1281 wrote...

...I'm going to assume that that's sarcasm.

LobselVith8 wrote...

Unless Danarius offered a position of power within the Imperium, why would your character consider handing Fenris over to him, Emperor Iaius?

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's in-character POV, Sarah. Pro-Tevinter POV at that.

Yes. I'm going to change my icon to the magisters from the DA:O intro video to make it clearer. People keep freaking out whenever I'm on about enslaving the elves. They miss the point.

edit: Sadly, Danarius doesn't offer a position of power, but he does have a very nice, gracious letter in which he offers to give me a tour of the Arcanist Hall if I'm ever in Minrathous. He's really quite pleasant. As for why--well, I don't like Fenris. I am a mage and we're at 100% rivalry. He acknowledges this: "I know we're not friends, Hawke, but I can't defeat Danarius without you." If you hand him over, Danarius says "I knew a mage would be reasonable."

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 27 mars 2011 - 06:43 .

[Sarah1281]

He acknowledges this: "I know we're not friends, Hawke, but I can't defeat Danarius without you." If you hand him over, Danarius says "I knew a mage would be reasonable."

Well actually, I had him at 100% friendship but when I chose that line just to see what would happen if I chose the 'fine I'll help' option (for the record, Hawke sarcastically says that Danarius might have better loot on him) then Fenris still said "I know we're not friends but..."

[Emperor Iaius I]

. . . that is /really/ bizarre. That shouldn't happen.

I don't remember what my Hawke said with the "fine I'll help" option, but it definitely wasn't about loot. I love all the variations you get with the different personalities. My mage had the red personality.

[Gamer Ftw]

DoNotIngest wrote...

einherjar81 wrote...Oh, but none of my Hawkes are ever mean to Merrill... That's just wrong... Those people are the ones who kick puppies and such...

A few weeks ago, I read about a guy who stomped a his girlfriend's puppy to death because she wasn't returning his calls. These are the people who are mean to Merrill.

I would never do that I love puppies.
But Merrrill needs a reality check not to be coddled.

[Sarah1281]

I had sarcastic, of course. I wonder what diplomatic would have done. Apologized? I suppose Fenris decided that if I was willing to entertain the possibility of sending him back to slavery then we were no longer friends. Not that I blame him. As far as friendship-killers go, that's a doozy.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Yeahhh, I had a few moments like that with Alistair in DA:O. There are certain things that just shatter friendships, permanently.

Gamer Ftw wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

einherjar81 wrote...Oh, but none of my Hawkes are ever mean to Merrill... That's just wrong... Those people are the ones who kick puppies and such...

A few weeks ago, I read about a guy who stomped a his girlfriend's puppy to death because she wasn't returning his calls. These are the people who are mean to Merrill.

I would never do that I love puppies.
But Merrrill needs a reality check not to be coddled.

Yes, and the best way to do that is to use her and then lose her. Ugh. The inhumanity of it is breathtaking.

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 27 mars 2011 - 06:54 .

[Gamer Ftw]

No that was just for the lolz.

[LobselVith8]

Anders and Fenris seem pretty brutal towards Merrill at times, especially over her use of blood magic. I'd wager they had rivalry with her for the past three years.

Maybe Feynriel might help your Hawke become a Magister if he went to Tevinter, Emperor? He does write that you're gaining a reputation up north, after all.