72 réponses à ce sujet

[Taura-Tierno]

Varric is relevant to the plot by being a part of the plot, of course. Plus, he's a great archer.

What relevance does Aveline have? Merril? Fenris?

What relevance did Leliana have in Origins? Or Oghren (after the deep roads)? Zevran? Wynne? Shale? Dog?

[Rheia]

On the subject of Varrick's narration, I am still heaving that sneaking suspicion that he lied at the end a little and that red spirit from the idol went into Hawke at the end :/

[Kawamura]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I dunno that he's flat/one-dimensional. He just doesn't hit you over the head with his personality.

He does hit you over the head with his personality.

He's dragged through a dark corridor, tossed in a chair, and faces a a mysterious religious inquisitioner... at which point he begins cracking jokes and shows little sign of being bothered.

There's little subtle about it.

He's got issues.

No, he doesn't. Varric has problems but shows no sign of having issues.

Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but I thought the snarky story telling was a defense thing over his mum.

*shrugs*

[Taura-Tierno]

Rheia wrote...

On the subject of Varrick's narration, I am still heaving that sneaking suspicion that he lied at the end a little and that red spirit from the idol went into Hawke at the end :/

I sure hope not. 

But I think the idol is connected to the grander scheme of things, and what's happening in the world. Such as Flemeth, the Old Gods, and such. The whispering of the idol always felt a bit similar to how the darkspawn could hear the Old Gods ...

[Maria Caliban]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

As far as the 'points' of characters go...

I agree with what you said as to the relevance of various companions to the plot, but you seem to suggest that a character's only 'point' is related to plot. If so, I disagree with it.

The first thing the OP charged Varric with was not having much of a relevance to the plot. And while plot relevance may not be everything, it is certainly very important in the point of characters.

I think you're saying that you weren't suggesting that.

[RebelRev]

This is my first time posting here, and I figured I would pick a light hearted discussion to do so =)

I find Varric to be very relevant and very dimensional and while I could leave it at that, I have examples. I agree with what many have written and I can expand on what they've said, with my own thoughts. =)

Varric is the 'bro' to the entire grouping of companions. As some have pointed out he plays cards with Donnic, Fenris, and even Dog (which I found to be absurdly cute). He also riles up Aveline, jokes with Isabela, and tries to help out Merril and as the story progresses, Anders. He's the big brother to some, the little brother to others, and the middle brother to the rest. He's the one constant that is in all of their lives, and he takes care of them the way he knows how.

Either by giving them kindly advice, giving them a place to 'hang out' from all the annoyances that surround their lives (For Donnic the scrutiny of being the Knight Captain's husband, for Fenris getting his mind off of Danarius (sp?) for a while), or in the case of Aveline making sure she remains 'grounded' and doesn't let her position go to her head. He pals around with Isabella because he -gets- her sort of humor, which doesn't seem to be the case with some of the others.

He's there for Hawke, even though he blames himself for what happened to Hawke's sibling (no matter what happens [at least from what I have seen, haven't gone the 'the sibling isn't going to do the Deep Roads Expedition' scenario yet]. He's there even for Merril when it seems like everyone under the sun does not like her. And when Anders goes fruit loopy serious, Varric worries. He encourages Bethany as well as Carver (granted one of them is more of a 'tough love' sort of way)

If anything, Varric, while he might be the story teller (and some may say the one that can be blamed for retconning), he is the 'bro' that this story and I think this very dysfunctional family needs that sort of trait. Sure, sometimes his involvement leads to some very... unpleasant things (idol, death etc etc), but he also seems to be one of the only ones who owns up to it and apologizes. Not to save his hide, but because it seems (to me) that it's the right thing for him to do.

And to be honest, I find it tragic when I can't have him along in the party.

Modifié par RebelRev, 26 mars 2011 - 09:28 .

[Pix]

The point of Varric for me.. *snicker* is that I had a blast with him in the side-quest killing all the jerks in Bertrand's house-- that crossbow acted like a machine gun and I loved his talents. I would have had him in my party BUT it didn't work out because he was boring to me as a character and it wouldn't have worked with my party composition.

[Dasha Dreyson]

I took Varric along nearly everywhere because of his ability to talk down situations. Varric, Anders, and Aveline had some fun ways to solve problems. Besides, I'd much rather him downplay his part than be a Mary-Sue. One of my Hawkes spends most of her time with him and psuedo-flirts at every opportunity.

[GeoffL19]

Varric is probably the best companion in the whole game. Maybe even the whole series. Ok, minus Oghren.

[Vhalkyrie]

You only got onto Bartrand's mission because of Varric. Remember how Bartrand blew off Hawke and his/her sibling when they first try to sign on.  Varric convinced Bartrand they need a partner. He turned down other partners because he wanted to horde whatever they found with as few partners as possible. That's a pretty important plot point.  It was crucial to ending Act 1, and restoring Hawke's nobility status in Kirkwall in Act 2 and 3.  Varric says as much.  In Kirkwall, you need title and status, or you're nothing.  The Deep Roads expedition elevated Hawke's status in Kirkwall.  He/She just would have been a nobody Fereldan refugee otherwise.

He was also my Hawke's best friend and the sanest person in Kirkwall.  (But that IS his version of events!)  Loved Varric.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 27 mars 2011 - 12:47 .

[Sjofn]

GeoffL19 wrote...

Varric is probably the best companion in the whole game. Maybe even the whole series. Ok, minus Oghren.

It's like dwarves are awesome or something.

wtb awesome lady dwarf companion in DA3 pst

[Heidenreich]

It doesn't really surprise me that you guys don't get varric. He's subtly awesome. He's got issues, but doesn't beat you in the face with them. He's deeper then the surface implies, paying the coterie and the carta to keep Anders and Merrill safe right out of his own pockets, being mother hen towards Fenris, and Isabela, and doing his best to keep Hawke out of trouble. The only one he doesn't need to babysit is Avaline, and that's because she scares the ****** out of him ;p

He's telling the story, and while we get all the crazy from all the different areas he's witnessed, we don't see his brand of crazy, because he's left it out of the story. The only bit we DO see, is a light scratching of the surface of his relationship with his brother. We learn a little about his history and family, but only to get across that he's important to hawke.


Aka, he's purposely leaving out the chapters involving him, minus the part that was important to the story -- the part about the idol. He's a great character, and I know someone who's quite a bit like Varric. Subtly puts everyone else ahead of him. As Futurama once said "You need to do just enough to make it look like you haven't done anything at all"

[Vhalkyrie]

Heidenreich wrote...

Aka, he's purposely leaving out the chapters involving him, minus the part that was important to the story -- the part about the idol. He's a great character, and I know someone who's quite a bit like Varric. Subtly puts everyone else ahead of him. As Futurama once said "You need to do just enough to make it look like you haven't done anything at all"

That reminds me a lot of the saying about persuasion.  The trick to diplomacy and persuasion is making an idea seem like it was the other person's idea.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 27 mars 2011 - 12:27 .

[DoNotIngest]

Varric is around to satisfy the many, many gamers with a chest hair fetish.

[Vhalkyrie]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Varric is around to satisfy the many, many gamers with a chest hair fetish.

I never knew the trick to being attracted to dwarves is no beard, but chest hair.  And a sarcastic (not crass) sense of humor. Until I met Varric.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 27 mars 2011 - 12:36 .

[Sabariel]

The point of Varric? To be awesome

[Saibh]

I don't know. Merrill has only a brief relevance that probably could have been done by any other person. Fenris has no plot relevance (honestly, this really bugs me--why was he in that book?). Aveline is the city guard captain, but, even then, as an individual she isn't important. She only appears in one quest as being important, and, even then, her interactions are minimal and could have been done with anyone else.

Varric is the reason you get in on the Deep Roads expedition. Without him, Hawke wouldn't have been involved with the events of DAII. He and Anders are probably the most plot-central characters.

Modifié par Saibh, 27 mars 2011 - 01:42 .

[mesmerizedish]

Anders, Varric, and Isabela, you mean

[Apollo Starflare]

There is a lot more to Varric than meets the eye, but at the core of him he is just the sanist most light hearted companion who generally comes off as a great guy I'd actually like to know in real life. I would find it hard to believe that someone doesn't like him, but I've long since stopped being surprised by people. Certainly don't see him as being one dimensional either!

@Saibh: You missed Isabela in terms of plot relevance. Without her Act 2 would have been very different. Really it's: Act 1 - Varric, Act 2 - Isabela and Act 3 - Anders.

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, without Isabela Act 2 doesn't make sense. The Arishok just said he couldn't leave but never elaborated on the WHY, just some mysterious duty he wouldn't talk about.

[Asdara]

Varric is the redemption of the Dwarves after Oghren. I mean... we needed an intelligent, not outlandish dwarf companion to even that out. Also - being "easy going" (read: neutral) story teller is part of the set up of this game. Would you want anyone else in the party who wasn't so even-handed to be telling the story of what you did to that angry looking sexy Seeker lady? I don't think so.

[Sarah1281]

Isabela would have hooked up with her before the story was over.

[Vhalkyrie]

Fenris is actually a totally optional character. On my first playthough, I didn't do his quest because Anso said it was lyrium smuggling, so I declined. I went through the rest of the game wondering why there were armor upgrades for a "Fenris" character I never recruited.

My second playthrough, I fixed it. While Fenris is technically an optional character because I went through my entire first playthrough without him, he does provide a very strong counterpoint to Anders. Without Fenris as the counterpoint to Anders, I only saw the pro-mage side of things. Fenris warns very strongly about the peril of mages without Templars. He gives insight into the brutal oppression of the magisters in the Tevinter Imperium.

Necessary? Strictly speaking, no. Adds to depth of story? Definitely.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 27 mars 2011 - 02:09 .

[Lord_Valandil]

I like Varric as a character, he's funny.
But I don't think he's necessary as a narrator, as there isn't much interaction between him and Cassandra, apart from "Oh dwarf, you're not telling me everything, TELL ME MOAR, MOAR".
I don't really see the so-called "depth" of the story (if any), and no...I won't start to say non-senses like "Fire David Gaider", and I won't bash the writers...but the story was a mess for me...

Act 1 is way too long, and it's based mostly on collecting money from random quests.
Act 2 feels like a climax, and also...I don't understand why the Qunari spent 3+ years just sitting on their asses without doing anything.
And Act 3 is an enterily different conflict, and while there are some glimpses of it between the acts 1 and 2, it just feels disconnected and anti-climatic.

That's just my opinion.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 27 mars 2011 - 02:13 .

[Saibh]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Fenris is actually a totally optional character. On my first playthough, I didn't do his quest because Anso said it was lyrium smuggling, so I declined. I went through the rest of the game wondering why there were armor upgrades for a "Fenris" character I never recruited.

My second playthrough, I fixed it. While Fenris is technically an optional character because I went through my entire first playthrough without him, he does provide a very strong counterpoint to Anders. Without Fenris as the counterpoint to Anders, I only saw the pro-mage side of things. Fenris warns very strongly about the peril of mages without Templars. He gives insight into the brutal oppression of the magisters in the Tevinter Imperium.

Necessary? Strictly speaking, no. Adds to depth of story? Definitely.

Still, it makes me raise eyebrows as to why he's in that book. Something ought to happen in that three year gap to explain it, otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense.