310 réponses à ce sujet

[SexBomb]

So I'm sure by now, we've all heard the news about David Gaider calling out that homophobe on this very social network, yes?  If not, you can read about it at the following links:

No More Lost

Destructoid

Long story short, there were some complaints, that were addressed directly by David Gaider.  Oh, I'm sorry.  Not addressed.  Completely destroyed.


Props to Gaider for that one.

Thoughts from a polysexual male gamer, LGBT activist and character animation student...


While I do appreciate the ability to romance whomever I choose, I will admit it does take away a little from the believability of the Dragon Age world. Granted, it did disappoint me in DAO that I was not able to romance Alistair, but at the same time I commended them for making the characters more real, in that sense. What I would have liked to see, however, were some flirty options that he could have rejected. It would have been sad, but hey.  Maybe a heavy make-out scene before our favourite Ferelden prince decides it "feels wrong." Romance doesn't always work out. I feel like that's something they could have included in DAII, (in fact they did, to an extent, with Avaline). Yes, it's great to see a wide range of romancable characters for every gender and orientation, but more than that, I enjoy believability. With a 10% gay population (I think that was the consensus for 2010?) and an even lesser bisexual population, I found it a little odd that I could pretty much pick anyone I wanted. ...If only reality worked that way, hmm?

I will admit, I did love Anders coming on strong, though. Hell, even some of the straightest men out there get hit on by gay/bi/pan/poly men on occasion... Heaven knows I've made my fair share of passes. So why can't that be included in a game? Good job, Gaider. Though I do find it awkward that Anders is gay if your warden is male, and straight if it's female. ...I'm pretty sure a person's sexual orientation doesn't shift based on the gender of the person they're talking to (I'll refrain from getting into depth about this; and I actually have a lot to say on the matter). It almost takes away from him as a character, if you ask me. Still, it's a minor complaint.

When I first played DAO, I hadn't heard anything about it, nor looked up any game guides or walkthroughs, and I was very surprised to find myself romancing a fellow male (Zevran, obviously). Perhaps I simply haven't played enough games where romances are possible, but I am very pleased by the breakthroughs gaming has made in recent years (BioWare, at the very least) in connecting with the gay/lesbian/bi community. Next up... Trans and genderqueer characters?

Modifié par Thats-Your-Funeral, 27 mars 2011 - 12:36 .

[SexBomb]

Thoughts?

Modifié par Thats-Your-Funeral, 26 mars 2011 - 07:54 .

[LobselVith8]

Torchwood went the same route with providing a cast of bisexuals, and they pulled it off fairly well. I felt the characters were really good, and they're a big reason why I enjoyed DA2. I think having romances available for both orientations was good, because we don't have to reload and play as a gender we don't want to simply to romance a character we like. And we had straight characters like Aveline and Varric (which I'm basing on his "exaggeration" of Bethany in the initial story), after all.

Doesn't DA2 have a transgender character "working" in Kirkwall?

[The Angry One]

And Doctor Who had incidental homosexual relationships before that.
But people still complained, because obviously stating that two women are married is promoting an evil liberal agenda.

[Lord Gremlin]

Well now, I admit I have no tolerance for gays, thank god for freedom of speech and thought. What I would say here, is that they should not have shafted anyone. 4 LI? Ok, make 2 gay/bi, and 2 straight. Everybody is happy. With all that in mind, I must admit that mentioned Anders is indeed perceived as a straight male when Hawke is female.

[The Angry One]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Well now, I admit I have no tolerance for gays, thank god for freedom of speech and thought. What I would say here, is that they should not have shafted anyone. 4 LI? Ok, make 2 gay/bi, and 2 straight. Everybody is happy. With all that in mind, I must admit that mentioned Anders is indeed perceived as a straight male when Hawke is female.

Well hey, you know what? If they "shafted" people who have no tolerance, I'm glad.

[Kimaka]

Thats-Your-Funeral wrote...
I will admit, I did love Anders coming on strong, though. Hell, even some of the straightest men out there get hit on by gay/bi/pan/poly men on occasion... Heaven knows I've made my fair share of passes. So why can't that be included in a game? Good job, Gaider. Though I do find it awkward that Anders is gay if your warden is male, and straight if it's female. ...I'm pretty sure a person's sexual orientation doesn't shift based on the gender of the person they're talking to (I'll refrain from getting into depth about this; and I actually have a lot to say on the matter). It almost takes away from him as a character, if you ask me. Still, it's a minor complaint.

Huh? Was this confirmed by the developers? I've seen people around the forms saying that the LI's sexual orientation changed depending on Hawke's gender but it never felt that way to me especially for Anders and Isabela. So I'm confused about this. I just assumed they were all bi.

Thats-Your-Funeral wrote...
When I first played DAO, I hadn't heard anything about it, nor looked up any game guides or walkthroughs, and I was very surprised to find myself romancing a fellow male (Zevran, obviously). Perhaps I simply haven't played enough games where romances are possible, but I am very pleased by the breakthroughs gaming has made in recent years (BioWare, at the very least) in connecting with the gay/lesbian/bi community. Next up... Trans and genderqueer characters?

It would be great if they had trans or genderqueer characters as long as they are not used as a joke like in the current DA games :/

Modifié par Kimaka, 26 mars 2011 - 08:12 .

[PantheraOnca]

A few points.

First, I believe Anders was having a thing with the mage you fail to save when he gets introduced to the party. So this makes him either gay or bi to start with, which doesn't necessarily change based on your Hawke. Additionally, if he and Isabella are in your party there is some banter between them where she says "ooooh, you were the one that could do that electricity thing... that was niiice." Which leads me to believe he's just bisexual.

Second, while earth-humans appear to have a 10% chance to be gay, we have no idea what those statistics are for Thedas.

Third, the sexual orientation of differing characters doesn't necessarily change on different playthroughs with different sexes. Either all the romancable characters are simply bisexual (this was my general take) or since it is a playthrough, having someone be "straight" one playthrough and "gay" the next isn't a contradiction of any kind because they are essentially alternate realities.

[The Angry One]

Kimaka wrote...

Huh? Was this confirmed by the developers? I've seen people around the forms saying that the LI's sexual orientation changed depending on Hawke's gender but it never felt that way to me especially for the Anders and Isabela. So I'm confused about this.

People believe this with Anders because he only mentions his homosexual relationship with a male Hawke.
I think this is more a reflection of Anders' character than reality-shifting; he is someone who needs a companion and sees that in Hawke. He's not going to volunteer information that's basically irrelevant to that and might impede it in his eyes.

[IronWolf1987]

I always interpreted Ander's interest in my male Hakwe having nothing to do with his sexual preference and everything to do with omnipotence of Hawke's glorious beard. Now you're telling me that Anders will romance a femhawke? Way to shaft your fans of epic beards Bioware.

[The Angry One]

IronWolf1987 wrote...

I always interpreted Ander's interest in my male Hakwe having nothing to do with his sexual preference and everything to do with omnipotence of Hawke's glorious beard. Now you're telling me that Anders will romance a femhawke? Way to shaft your fans of epic beards Bioware.

You fool. Only Duncan's beard has that power. Hang your head in shame for ever presuming to be on the same level as The Beard.

[Lithuasil]

IronWolf1987 wrote...

I always interpreted Ander's interest in my male Hakwe having nothing to do with his sexual preference and everything to do with omnipotence of Hawke's glorious beard. Now you're telling me that Anders will romance a femhawke? Way to shaft your fans of epic beards Bioware.

RUINED FOREVER. 

[IronWolf1987]

The Angry One wrote...

IronWolf1987 wrote...

I always interpreted Ander's interest in my male Hakwe having nothing to do with his sexual preference and everything to do with omnipotence of Hawke's glorious beard. Now you're telling me that Anders will romance a femhawke? Way to shaft your fans of epic beards Bioware.

You fool. Only Duncan's beard has that power. Hang your head in shame for ever presuming to be on the same level as The Beard.

Duncan's time as head beard is a thing of the past. This is the era of Hawke beard and it will be great indeed!

[Thrennion]

As a straight femHawke, I certainly got a "bi" vibe from Anders, thanks to his implied relationship with Karl, even though he never comes out and says exactly why they were such close friends. Did it bother me? No, not at all.

I applaud Bioware's treatment of sexuality in the game. And FTR, I liked that Anders made the first move. It made sense for his character.

[Volourn]

"Though I do find it awkward that Anders is gay if your warden is male, and straight if it's female."

No, he's bisexual no matter what. His past doesn't change - he just opens up about his past male lover with a gay Hawke since it would just be all kinds of awkward for him to share that kind of info with a female Hawke.

It be like,"Hey babe, you hot all all but you know... that Tranquil guy I just stabbed with a knife... well.. I stabbed him in a whole different matter awhile back.. so, yeah, I like guys too... but I'm with you now, my girl.. aww.. let's kiss."

Hawke would be like: 'Jigga WAT!?!"

P.S. It should be noted as well that Anders *will* hit on eith gender of Hawke and you can turn him down so yeah the game makes it perfectly clear he's bisexual.

He tried fliting with my male Hawke, and I told him I'm not interested in him in that way and he moved on. *shrug*

Modifié par Volourn, 26 mars 2011 - 08:32 .

[Freeway911]

I didn't spend time on the forum when I was playing DAO. Was this such a big deal then? Was there a hang Zevran from a tree because he hit on male wardens movement? Most important, why is this such a big deal? This is getting as insane as the violent video games turn people into mass murders debate.

I do like the way they handled sexuality in the first game more as each person had a set preference. I think that added more depth to each of the characters more than making them based on the gender of the main character.Gay and bi friends I have had over the years were gay or bi no matter who they were hanging out with.

[Volourn]

Umm.. That's true of the characters in DA2...

[The Angry One]

Freeway911 wrote...

I didn't spend time on the forum when I was playing DAO. Was this such a big deal then? Was there a hang Zevran from a tree because he hit on male wardens movement? Most important, why is this such a big deal? This is getting as insane as the violent video games turn people into mass murders debate.

Yes, yes there were. Several.
If you've played Fallout: New Vegas, there is also hate and controversy because of one companion, Arcade Gannon, who happens to be gay.
There is no romance in New Vegas, nor does he ever hit on a male protagonist. But people hate him anyway, just because.

I do like the way they handled sexuality in the first game more as each person had a set preference. I think that added more depth to each of the characters more than making them based on the gender of the main character.Gay and bi friends I have had over the years were gay or bi no matter who they were hanging out with.

They do have a set preference. It just so happens that 4 of them are bisexual. Nothing about any of their personalities says otherwise.
If you think that Isabela can be bisexual because she's promiscuous and Merril can't because she's socially awkward and innocent you're just engaging in a fallacy. Neither state requires the other; there are plenty of introverted people who are bi and raunchy ones who are straight as a pole.

[Freeway911]

The Angry One wrote...

Yes, yes there were. Several.
If you've played Fallout: New Vegas, there is also hate and controversy because of one companion, Arcade Gannon, who happens to be gay.
There is no romance in New Vegas, nor does he ever hit on a male protagonist. But people hate him anyway, just because.

Figures they hate him but not Veronica because thats ok by most standards.

The Angry One wrote...
They do have a set preference. It just so happens that 4 of them are bisexual. Nothing about any of their personalities says otherwise.
If you think that Isabela can be bisexual because she's promiscuous and Merril can't because she's socially awkward and innocent you're just engaging in a fallacy. Neither state requires the other; there are plenty of introverted people who are bi and raunchy ones who are straight as a pole.

I get your point and understand what you are saying but damn what are the odds.


It would be interesting or sad to see the melt down most of these people would have if they were hit on by a guy in the real world. Yes I say guy because I haven't seen one thread started by a woman complaining yet. Not saying there isn't one just I haven't seen it.

Modifié par Freeway911, 26 mars 2011 - 08:57 .

[The Angry One]

In a sense you can view it as statistically unlikely, then again a lot of things in a fantasy story about heroes are.
In any case as David Gaider said, society views homosexuality as "peculiar" in Thedas, but don't oppress it. Without ingrained hardcore prejudice, more people are likely to come out of the closet so to speak.

Or Hawke has sex rays generating from her/his pants. Point is that it's just how these characters are and nothing is compromised for it.

[SexBomb]

In regards to Anders' sexuality:

I haven't been 100% clear on this... I've only played a male Hawke. I'm simply going off the information other people have provided me with, along with forum posts, the DA wiki, and other outside sources. I thought he was bi in my playthrough, as well. If his sexuality does in fact shift, however, I find it awkward.

Regardless, this was hardly the main point my post was trying to make. It was more simply about orientation variation, and my qualms about having all romancable characters be romancable for all genders. Of course it has it's perks--oh, what I would have done, if I could romance Alistair--but it also has it's drawbacks.

The Angry One wrote...

Or Hawke has sex rays generating from her/his pants.

I like this theory.

Modifié par Thats-Your-Funeral, 26 mars 2011 - 09:01 .

[Thrennion]

Volourn wrote...

It be like,"Hey babe, you hot all all but you know... that Tranquil guy I just stabbed with a knife... well.. I stabbed him in a whole different matter awhile back.. so, yeah, I like guys too... but I'm with you now, my girl.. aww.. let's kiss."

Hawke would be like: 'Jigga WAT!?!"

LAWL. Exactly.

[Lithuasil]

Freeway911 wrote...

I get your point and understand what you are saying but damn what are the odds.

Given the four love interests are A slút, an ex slave, someone raised in the "free love" ferelden circle, and someone likely without any sexual experience prior to arriving in Kirkwall, and further given Hawke has massive impact on 
those four peoples lives, and is one of the very few social contacts they have (given neither fenris, nor merill, nor Anders really have many friends) - the odds of developing a crush regardless of gender are actually pretty high.

[maegi46]

Anders "moved on" with a rivalry hit reaction was my only problem with it, just accept that we are "friends", basically felt like to me if I don't want a male love as a male hawke I'm forced into the rival zone. Fenris on the other hand can accept a rejection and still award +10 friendship. So Fenris is the "bigger" man, pun intended.

Modifié par maegi46, 26 mars 2011 - 09:19 .

[b09boy]

I think the issue here is basically just Anders. People don't care so much if there's a bi character who's so straightforward as long as you can let him/her down and still get a friendship in the end (see: Zevran). But this is a character who never showed any signs of being like this in the past. Mhairi and Velanna were both fair game, but this was never again hinted toward. So then we have this character we thought we knew hitting on us at every opportunity, even after being let down, and with him a neutral friendship path with doesn't really seem to exist.

I'm not a homophobe and I've had gay friends. But I've always made clear I am not interested without being a harsh ass about it, it stopped there, and the friendship continued just fine.

Modifié par b09boy, 26 mars 2011 - 09:03 .