310 réponses à ce sujet

[Clover Rider]

thurmanator692 wrote...

He who says nothing, changes nothing

This.

[Dangerfoot]

sheppard7 wrote...

He's portrayed as the stereotype. So it would be okay in your mind for Bioware to make a black hero in the next game that likes fried chicken and watermelon and looks like Chicken George to you? While that's not all of the race to be that way there are some who are. Does that make it right for Bioware to be that way?

Why stop there? Next it'll be jew stereotype. Then what's next for Bioware?

Wow. This is probably one of the more ridiculous bits of hyperbole I've read on the internet.


Do you realize how bad that is?

[NeoGuardian86]

While i'm certainly not against diversity in choices, having them all be BI I think limited their resources in relationship building. Not saying you cannot make a good Bisexual character(s) either, just felt that doing so felt to me like it was a bit shoe-horned in there. Thinking of the amount of dialog it took to double in order to do the opposite orientation, could of gone into building up the relationship of the other. be that straight, gay, lesbian or other.


Personally i like more defined characters and a bit more verisimilitude for my experience in this regard.

and yes i know this is a fantastical world were playing in, still on a human interactive level - as a straight male - i was a little thrown off by the decisions they made. and please do not berate me over this because i'm straight. I expected diversity as well as a bit of reality i experience when it came to the LI's.

And after some thought Ander's coming onto me first didn't bother me (has happened at least twice in my own personal life), nor was chomping down on some rivalry points either, it was the inability to say no nicely, even if that meant chomping on the same or less amount of rivalry points. Like i had to be a dick to say no to him, and not every person who is straight or is role-playing straight wants to be a dick to the gay guy who attempts to make a move on you.

Just doing them all that way gave me the wrong impression, NOT because their BI but because heaven forbid someone didn't get to romance X person because of their character's default gender choice.

And i don't count non-LI's as 'well they're in the game too', that's really in my regards doesn't count. I don't think for the person who really wants a transvestite LI would count the one that shows up for a brief moment in the game either.

That's all, it's a small complaint, merely from my perspective. It certainly didn't ruin the game for me, I think there are a lot bigger game design decisions i disliked a lot more (recycled dungeons, lack of inventory options, and severe lack of dialog with NPC companions is by far my biggest gripes).

I just don't want the writers - and no i'm not ordering them to do anything - to feel shoe-horned into making LI characters designed simply to please everyone. Want them to make the best ones they can.

and yes i know that goes against the idea of being able to choose who you want. The topic of love even when you just consider it in only straight-sexuality terms is rather complex, just imagine if you think of the experiences all sorts of oriented people go through.

[AngelicMachinery]

Beamobaby wrote...

Yeah, the romances in ME1 were good for their time relative to everything else, but looking back, they definitely had their flaws.


I'm gonna try to fan the flames again.

What does everyone think about an extensive sexuality section of the character creator? It could allow for transexuals and transqueers into the game without them having to just imagine it themselves. It'd be a teeny tiny bit more realistic that some NPCs would hit on you. People subconsciously have different body language around those they're attracted too. The game could game itself rather than letting awkward situations go a bit further than expected. There's plenty of positive reasons for it and not just a 'homophobe switch'.

NOTE: This is just an inquiry for opinions.

I actually think this could be a rather interesting idea,  if implemented correctly.  I don't think people are ready for it though,  bioware themselves have used a transtype character as a joke in both games.  I'm not sure they can handle it with maturity.

[Ushakal]

 If this trend continues, we will surely be without any Heterosexual LIs in Dragon Age 3!

Love Interests in previous Bioware games:
Older Bioware games - Heterosexuals Only.
Mass Effect - Heterosexuals and Lesbian/Bisexual women.
Dragon Age: Origins - Heterosexuals and Bisexuals.
(Can't remember ME2...)
Dragon Age 2 - Bisexuals Only.
Mass Effect 3 - Bisexuals and Homosexuals.
Dragon Age 3 - Homosexuals Only.

This degree of heterophobia is totally unacceptable!

Modifié par Ushakal, 28 mars 2011 - 02:53 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Ushakal wrote...

 If this trend continues, we will surely be without any Heterosexual LIs in Dragon Age 3!

Love Interests in previous Bioware games:
Older Bioware games - Heterosexuals Only.
Mass Effect - Heterosexuals and Lesbian/Bisexual women.
Dragon Age: Origins - Heterosexuals and Bisexuals.
(Can't remember ME2...)
Dragon Age 2 - Bisexuals Only.
Mass Effect 3 - Bisexuals and Homosexuals.
Dragon Age 3 - Homosexuals Only.

This degree of heterophobia is totally unacceptable!

I would laugh my ass off if this were true.

[Dasha Dreyson]

Juhani in Kotor was a romance option. So no, it's not been heterosexual only in older games.

[Ushakal]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Juhani in Kotor was a romance option. So no, it's not been heterosexual only in older games.

Well, it was a joke to poke fun at people complaining about "neglecting" heteroseuxals, but if you want to be like that perhaps we should criticise Bioware for neglecting homosexual men until 2009, when Dragon Age: Origins came out (6 years after KOTOR?). About 14 years of only catering to heterosexuals and lesbians, for shame.

Of course, I'm not the kind of person who would criticise Bioware for a lack of diversity in their games. I'm actually sick of hearing people criticise Bioware for this kind of thing, because it has always been at the forefront of representing under-represented minorities.

[KAAurious]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Juhani in Kotor was a romance option. So no, it's not been heterosexual only in older games.

Silk Fox in Jade Empire.

Bioware has been pretty open on this front and I applaud them. Though at this rate I'll interpret Anders as a bisexual character, since he said this in DA:A

"All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools."

[sheppard7]

KAAurious wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Juhani in Kotor was a romance option. So no, it's not been heterosexual only in older games.

Silk Fox in Jade Empire.

Bioware has been pretty open on this front and I applaud them. Though at this rate I'll interpret Anders as a bisexual character, since he said this in DA:A

"All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools."

Bioware is probably going to patch Awakenings now so he says, "All I want is a pretty girl or hunky guy to get all junior high crush with, who cares about meals and lightning bolts. I just want to hug a tree. Then I'll go out and kill a bunch of innocents instead of the person who actually is the problem. Can we go terrorist today?"

Modifié par sheppard7, 28 mars 2011 - 01:26 .

[Tripedius]

Hasn't this been discussed enough? General consensus:
- people who have problems with the bi-content are small minded and should accept it or stop playing
- people who think it is fine as it is
- people who think there needs to be more exclusive gay content are overdoing it. It's fine as it is, no need for more different romances, as it would probably take more devellopment time than it's worth and cause female players to complain that they can't romance 'that guy'.

It is fine as it is, you can have a same sex romance or a heterosex romance, even if it is with the same people, but you have to judge it on one single playthrough. If in one your male and Anders is gay that's fine, but don't complain he's straight when your a woman, cause the argument 'he wasn't like that before' is false. He can be only one thing in one playthrough. If you want to talk about multiple playthroughs you have to accept multiple dimensions (with the same world in it) and it's fine that he's different in different dimensions.

As for the Anders hitting on you argument, I haven't seen any female players who complain about that. Maybe the're used to guys hitting on them .

[Tripedius]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Beamobaby wrote...

Yeah, the romances in ME1 were good for their time relative to everything else, but looking back, they definitely had their flaws.


I'm gonna try to fan the flames again.

What does everyone think about an extensive sexuality section of the character creator? It could allow for transexuals and transqueers into the game without them having to just imagine it themselves. It'd be a teeny tiny bit more realistic that some NPCs would hit on you. People subconsciously have different body language around those they're attracted too. The game could game itself rather than letting awkward situations go a bit further than expected. There's plenty of positive reasons for it and not just a 'homophobe switch'.

NOTE: This is just an inquiry for opinions.

I actually think this could be a rather interesting idea,  if implemented correctly.  I don't think people are ready for it though,  bioware themselves have used a transtype character as a joke in both games.  I'm not sure they can handle it with maturity.

Oke, so because some people are transgenders you want them to be able to roleplay transgenders? I thought that roleplaying was (to a degree) about something you are not (an elf, a prince, a mage, etc.). And besides, being a male and playing a female is pretty transgender if you ask me. And how would that work? Half way the game you change sex? You have a male thing below, but womens things above? People calling you 'it'? It's a game not something in which everybodies lifestyle and preferences needs to be adress in. Romances are a perk, nothing more nothing less, not an endevour to satisfy everyone. Or should we put the option to be a slave to someone, lick each others feet, etc, etc.

[Arppis]

The Angry One wrote...

How the hell is Anders "punishment for being straight"?
It's ONE convo, that MAY get you rivalry points, where again Anders is a little pushy because that is his character.
If you want Anders to be chaste then YOU are the one diminishing a character and compromising the game because you want him to be something his character as written is not.

It's just close minded people thinking. Don't worry about it.

[Vhalkyrie]

Tripedius wrote...

As for the Anders hitting on you argument, I haven't seen any female players who complain about that. Maybe the're used to guys hitting on them .

I also haven't seen any threads about how awful it is having Isabela force female Hawke to shoot her down.  Let's be real and say this about straight males uncomfortable with bisexual Anders.  Haven't seen bisexual Isabela taken down in the same breath.  The message from people who are offended, are only offended in one circumstance and not the other.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 28 mars 2011 - 02:18 .

[Dussan2]

Anders came on way too strong and if you rebuff him you lose friendship?! Lame. Same with that clown Fenris.

[Arppis]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

As for the Anders hitting on you argument, I haven't seen any female players who complain about that. Maybe the're used to guys hitting on them .

I also haven't seen any threads about how awful it is having Isabela force female Hawke to shoot her down.  Let's be real and say this about straight males uncomfortable with bisexual Anders.  Haven't seen bisexual Isabela taken down in the same breath.  The message from people who are offended, are only offended in one circumstance and not the other.

When did this happen? There was option to be just nice at Isabella and still be friends with her. For Anders there wasn't, there was 2 <3 -options and one X -option. That's why no one is complaining. You can't be a nice guy at Anders and tell him you are not interested. You have to be a douchebag. That's the main complaint about it.

For everyone else in the game, you can be nice and be friends with them.

Modifié par Arppis, 28 mars 2011 - 02:26 .

[Ushakal]

Tripedius wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Beamobaby wrote...

Yeah, the romances in ME1 were good for their time relative to everything else, but looking back, they definitely had their flaws.


I'm gonna try to fan the flames again.

What does everyone think about an extensive sexuality section of the character creator? It could allow for transexuals and transqueers into the game without them having to just imagine it themselves. It'd be a teeny tiny bit more realistic that some NPCs would hit on you. People subconsciously have different body language around those they're attracted too. The game could game itself rather than letting awkward situations go a bit further than expected. There's plenty of positive reasons for it and not just a 'homophobe switch'.

NOTE: This is just an inquiry for opinions.

I actually think this could be a rather interesting idea,  if implemented correctly.  I don't think people are ready for it though,  bioware themselves have used a transtype character as a joke in both games.  I'm not sure they can handle it with maturity.

Oke, so because some people are transgenders you want them to be able to roleplay transgenders? I thought that roleplaying was (to a degree) about something you are not (an elf, a prince, a mage, etc.). And besides, being a male and playing a female is pretty transgender if you ask me. And how would that work? Half way the game you change sex? You have a male thing below, but womens things above? People calling you 'it'? It's a game not something in which everybodies lifestyle and preferences needs to be adress in. Romances are a perk, nothing more nothing less, not an endevour to satisfy everyone. Or should we put the option to be a slave to someone, lick each others feet, etc, etc.

Yeah, I don't think many transgendered people want to be thought of as a "third gender"; the point is that they want to be seen as the gender they feel/think they are. They can simply play the game as the gender they choose to be, there doesn't really need to be any backstory to that.

Furthermore, there's really no need to implement a questionnaire at the start of the game to ask invasive questions about a person's sexuality - it would probably put a lot of people off. With a game like Dragon Age it's best to pre-determine as little as possible, it's all about making decisions and choices as they come up.

I'm a "straight male gamer", but I still hit it off with Zevran - he was just so charming! I would never have had that chance had I chosen "heterosexual dialouge only" at the start.

[Jester12]

Lithuasil wrote...

Freeway911 wrote...

I get your point and understand what you are saying but damn what are the odds.

Given the four love interests are A slút, an ex slave, someone raised in the "free love" ferelden circle, and someone likely without any sexual experience prior to arriving in Kirkwall, and further given Hawke has massive impact on 
those four peoples lives, and is one of the very few social contacts they have (given neither fenris, nor merill, nor Anders really have many friends) - the odds of developing a crush regardless of gender are actually pretty high.

I... actually have no idea how you could expand on this. This seems to hit it right on. Hawke just manages to pick the 4 companions that are bisexual. It really is believable that they are all straight because they have all been secluded in their own way. Except for of course Sebastian who partied, partyed? hard. My only disagreement is that Isabela is in no way a sl**. She... Just.. Uhm. Likes anything on two legs. Oh and Ushakal. There is one straight male in Dragon Age 2. Just saying.

Modifié par Jester12, 28 mars 2011 - 02:33 .

[Herr Uhl]

Ushakal wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Juhani in Kotor was a romance option. So no, it's not been heterosexual only in older games.

Well, it was a joke to poke fun at people complaining about "neglecting" heteroseuxals, but if you want to be like that perhaps we should criticise Bioware for neglecting homosexual men until 2009, when Dragon Age: Origins came out (6 years after KOTOR?). About 14 years of only catering to heterosexuals and lesbians, for shame.

Of course, I'm not the kind of person who would criticise Bioware for a lack of diversity in their games. I'm actually sick of hearing people criticise Bioware for this kind of thing, because it has always been at the forefront of representing under-represented minorities.

Jade Empire had a bisexual male.

[Ushakal]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Ushakal wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Juhani in Kotor was a romance option. So no, it's not been heterosexual only in older games.

Well, it was a joke to poke fun at people complaining about "neglecting" heteroseuxals, but if you want to be like that perhaps we should criticise Bioware for neglecting homosexual men until 2009, when Dragon Age: Origins came out (6 years after KOTOR?). About 14 years of only catering to heterosexuals and lesbians, for shame.

Of course, I'm not the kind of person who would criticise Bioware for a lack of diversity in their games. I'm actually sick of hearing people criticise Bioware for this kind of thing, because it has always been at the forefront of representing under-represented minorities.

Jade Empire had a bisexual male.

Well, that's good, but it really doesn't matter; I was simply joking in my original post, so please just drop it.

[Arppis]

Tripedius wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Beamobaby wrote...

Yeah, the romances in ME1 were good for their time relative to everything else, but looking back, they definitely had their flaws.


I'm gonna try to fan the flames again.

What does everyone think about an extensive sexuality section of the character creator? It could allow for transexuals and transqueers into the game without them having to just imagine it themselves. It'd be a teeny tiny bit more realistic that some NPCs would hit on you. People subconsciously have different body language around those they're attracted too. The game could game itself rather than letting awkward situations go a bit further than expected. There's plenty of positive reasons for it and not just a 'homophobe switch'.

NOTE: This is just an inquiry for opinions.

I actually think this could be a rather interesting idea,  if implemented correctly.  I don't think people are ready for it though,  bioware themselves have used a transtype character as a joke in both games.  I'm not sure they can handle it with maturity.

Oke, so because some people are transgenders you want them to be able to roleplay transgenders? I thought that roleplaying was (to a degree) about something you are not (an elf, a prince, a mage, etc.). And besides, being a male and playing a female is pretty transgender if you ask me. And how would that work? Half way the game you change sex? You have a male thing below, but womens things above? People calling you 'it'? It's a game not something in which everybodies lifestyle and preferences needs to be adress in. Romances are a perk, nothing more nothing less, not an endevour to satisfy everyone. Or should we put the option to be a slave to someone, lick each others feet, etc, etc.

Why don't you RP transgender then?

[Parrk]

I am a straight male gamer and I exclusively play female toons who romance other females.

The thought that some companions should be restricted to certain types of partners is unnecessarily restrictive. Even beyond the big-picture idea that alienating people unnecessarily in fantasy games is simply stupid, to do so also alienates people like me, who think that sexy lesbians are a great inclusion to any fantasy story.

Clearly it isn't sexy lesbians, but rather gay men that make some people uncomfortable though, and I think that Bio went with exactly the right answer....get over it.


oh, and FEMSHEP TALI in ME3!!!!
Make it happen!

Modifié par Parrk, 28 mars 2011 - 02:54 .

[nokori3byo]

My problem with having four bisexual characters is that it robs them of the feeling of being their own people, as it were, and just makes them ciphers to the whims of the player character. In Isabelle's case, it fits with her character and crops up in party banter, which is fine. And Fenris, as a David Bowie expy...hmmm, marginal case I suppose. Personally, I think it would have been gutsier simply to make Anders gay.

[Parrk]

nokori3byo wrote...

My problem with having four bisexual characters is that it robs them of the feeling of being their own people, as it were, and just makes them ciphers to the whims of the player character. In Isabelle's case, it fits with her character and crops up in party banter, which is fine. And Fenris, as a David Bowie expy...hmmm, marginal case I suppose. Personally, I think it would have been gutsier simply to make Anders gay.

I have no problem with the idea of a purely gay anders.  I think that he is a poor choice though because his role in the story is not a positive one, and in my games at least, he never lives.

I  can see how doing what you propose may have created large and unintentional backlash:  "Are you saying that gay men should bomg churches and be killed by their friends?"

[Arppis]

Parrk wrote...

I am a straight male gamer and I exclusively play female toons who romance other females.

The thought that some companions should be restricted to certain types of partners is unnecessarily restrictive. Even beyond the big-picture idea that alienating people unnecessarily in fantasy games is simply stupid, to do so also alienates people like me, who think that sexy lesbians are a great inclusion to any fantasy story.

Clearly it isn't sexy lesbians, but rather gay men that make some people uncomfortable though, and I think that Bio went with exactly the right answer....get over it.


oh, and FEMSHEP TALI in ME3!!!!
Make it happen!

I'm sure they have already been able to erridicate "homosexual-genes" off the DNA maps. 

Joking, but I could so see that happen.