310 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

maegi46 wrote...

moved on with a rivalry hit reaction was my only problem with it, just accept that we are "friends", basically felt like to me if I don't want a male love as a male hawke I'm forced into the rival zone. Fenris on the other hand can accept a rejection and still award +10 friendship. So Fenris is the "bigger" man, pun intended.

I believe there are ways to reject Anders as a man and get no rivalry, but you have to understand that this is a good thing - it shows Anders' personality.
He's needy and lonely, he doesn't take rejection or setbacks well.. ever. This is a man who'll hold a deep-seated resentment over being deprived of a *kitten*. So yes, rejecting him in some ways likely gets rivalry points.

[Freeway911]

Lithuasil wrote...

Freeway911 wrote...

I get your point and understand what you are saying but damn what are the odds.

Given the four love interests are A slút, an ex slave, someone raised in the "free love" ferelden circle, and someone likely without any sexual experience prior to arriving in Kirkwall, and further given Hawke has massive impact on 
those four peoples lives, and is one of the very few social contacts they have (given neither fenris, nor merill, nor Anders really have many friends) - the odds of developing a crush regardless of gender are actually pretty high.

I get part of what you are saying but people are who they are. You are either gay, bi, or straight regardless of who you hang out with or who makes an impact on your life and just being a **** as you say doesn't mean you are ready to jump into the sack with either a man or woman.

I believe there are ways to reject Anders as a man and get no rivalry

There is. I was able to do it on my last run through the game.

Modifié par Freeway911, 26 mars 2011 - 09:10 .

[Thrennion]

maegi46 wrote...

moved on with a rivalry hit reaction was my only problem with it, just accept that we are "friends", basically felt like to me if I don't want a male love as a male hawke I'm forced into the rival zone. Fenris on the other hand can accept a rejection and still award +10 friendship. So Fenris is the "bigger" man, pun intended.

As has been stated on all the other threads about this, that rivalry hit is miniscule. You have to really work very hard to become Anders' rival, because almost everything else you do gives friendship points.

I tried to rivalmance him in my current game as a mage femHawke and failed miserably--in order to get him to hate me, I would practically have to knee him in his coinpurse every time I saw him.

[Lithuasil]

Freeway911 wrote...

I get part of what you are saying but people are who they are. You are either gay, bi, or straight regardless of who you hang out with or who makes an impact on your life and just being a **** as you say doesn't mean you are ready to jump into the sack with either a man or woman.

"What you are" isn't predetermined, it's a product from circumstance, opportunity and preposition. None of those four characters have reason to have their sexuality set in stone, all of them have reason to question them, all feel some form of emotional connection towards hawke.

Especially in Merills case, I really got the vibe she isn't so much bi, as she has a crush on pretty much the only person that's nice to her, without being intimidating (like Varric and Isabella are).

[colex91]

It's 2011 get over the gay thing guys. Get out of your holes and get over it.

[Thrennion]

Lithuasil wrote...

Freeway911 wrote...

I get your point and understand what you are saying but damn what are the odds.

I get part of what you are saying but people are who they are. You are either gay, bi, or straight regardless of who you hang out with or who makes an impact on your life and just being a **** as you say doesn't mean you are ready to jump into the sack with either a man or woman.

Well, not necessarily. I'm as straight as they come, and I've been tempted by a member of my own gender before, due to sheer attractiveness or charisma or sex rays shooting from her pants or whatever you want to call it. It's not impossible for a very, very straight person to want to dabble.

Modifié par Thrennion, 26 mars 2011 - 09:16 .

[Freeway911]

"What you are" isn't predetermined, it's a product from circumstance, opportunity and preposition.

Not even going to get into that here. Lets just agree to disagree on that point.

[The Angry One]

"Fenris has agreed to disagree." <3

.. what, it reminded me. Leave me alone.

[ExiledMimic]

Honestly I could care less if Party Member A is gay, bisexual, straight, trisexual (Isabella), or just plain unisexual. That's not really something I consider to be a massive thing. However I didn't like that all of the party was bisexual. It seemed to meta-game everyone into "Here's your lineup! Who do you want?" and it detracted from their characters. Anders being bi? Ok. He came on a little strong, and it was against his Awakening character portrayal, but hey. Fine. Isabella will hump anything (except a virgin mage with a bad haircut). That's ok. The fact that Fenris and Merrill are also swinging the fence sorta of... well it took away from the game as a whole and not just the characters.

Not because everyone was bi, but no one had individuality. I can't honestly say at any point I felt like the characters were fleshed out (barring Isabella puns) and not just for this, but it was a contributing factor. In the end I have worse things to complain about. But 1 or 2 bi, 1 or 2 gay and 1 or 2 straight romances in a game gives you a mix that makes the characters seem like individuals. Not meat on the menu.

[NedPepper]

I think it's very human to have curiousity or strong feelings for anyone, depending on the situation. I know the straightest of frat boys who get really drunk and suddenly become kind of gay. Anybody else know what I'm talking about? Like touchy-feely, flirty, hanging all over you. There's something about alcohol that brings out a person's true side. And I think it's hilarious and interesting.

Then again, I'm one of those guys who thinks everyone is slightly bi-sexual, so...

[MKDAWUSS]

Be glad the subject regarded sexual orientations and not abortion...

[MKDAWUSS]

nedpepper wrote...

I think it's very human to have curiousity or strong feelings for anyone, depending on the situation. I know the straightest of frat boys who get really drunk and suddenly become kind of gay. Anybody else know what I'm talking about? Like touchy-feely, flirty, hanging all over you. There's something about alcohol that brings out a person's true side. And I think it's hilarious and interesting.

Then again, I'm one of those guys who thinks everyone is slightly bi-sexual, so...

Me too. It's more a case of "what you're willing to do with people of the same gender." Condition-based, not label-based.

[colex91]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Be glad the subject regarded sexual orientations and not abortion...

Both are on the same level as worse...

Beating a very dead horse...

[NedPepper]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

I think it's very human to have curiousity or strong feelings for anyone, depending on the situation. I know the straightest of frat boys who get really drunk and suddenly become kind of gay. Anybody else know what I'm talking about? Like touchy-feely, flirty, hanging all over you. There's something about alcohol that brings out a person's true side. And I think it's hilarious and interesting.

Then again, I'm one of those guys who thinks everyone is slightly bi-sexual, so...

Me too. It's more a case of "what you're willing to do with people of the same gender." Condition-based, not label-based.

Exactly.  I also think there's a difference between intimacy and the actual act of sex.

[SexBomb]

ExiledMimic wrote...

 I can't honestly say at any point I felt like the characters were fleshed out (barring Isabella puns) and not just for this, but it was a contributing factor. In the end I have worse things to complain about. But 1 or 2 bi, 1 or 2 gay and 1 or 2 straight romances in a game gives you a mix that makes the characters seem like individuals. Not meat on the menu.

I feel the same way about the DAII characters, but I refrained from posting any thoughts on them in this thread, aside from notes regarding their orientations.  I hadn't thought of the bisexuality as taking away from them further, but after your post I can definitely see it.

[The Angry One]

Them being bisexual has no impact on their quality. Their development or lack of is up for debate, but that part is really a non-issue.

[SexBomb]

The Angry One wrote...

Them being bisexual has no impact on their quality. Their development or lack of is up for debate, but that part is really a non-issue.

I'm sure this is debatable, but again that's why I refrained from posting any such comments in the topic.  I certainly didn't connect the two when I posted.  This is a thread about character orientations, not development.

[Freeway911]

Ok after a small side chat with someone I have to say my bad. Thinking about the whole thing what you guys are saying does work in a way. While most gay/bi people say "this is me and I was born this way", at least those I have known. This isn't always the case. I remember reading that it was either the ancient greek or roman military that encouraged same sex partners within its ranks as it made them more willing to fight to keep their partner alive or something along those lines. Can't remember all of it off the top of my head, way to much useless information in there.

[ExiledMimic]

The Angry One wrote...

Them being bisexual has no impact on their quality. Their development or lack of is up for debate, but that part is really a non-issue.

See it IS a non-issue if the characters have depth on their own, but without real diversity to begin with it's more than a simple oddity and just a detraction.  The noted exceptions from above are Isabella and Anders (after you got over him being in Awakenings).

Of course I get what you're saying, but I'm not knocking their quality simply for being bi.  It just felt like a tacked on feature rather than you romantically interacting with a character who was interested in you.

[Katzen]

The LI's orientations in this game are set in stone. They're all hawkesexual.

Modifié par Katzen, 26 mars 2011 - 09:55 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

It's spectacular how lazy writing and idea of saving scripting time came out, after a while, as a nice marketing feature. Call tighting up game budget an appeal to minorities and you have yourself praised, yes?

[ExiledMimic]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

It's spectacular how lazy writing and idea of saving scripting time came out, after a while, as a nice marketing feature. Call tighting up game budget an appeal to minorities and you have yourself praised, yes?

See that's the wrong attitude.  I have 0 issue with putting in LIs directed to bi or gay gamers.  It's just when all of the people in the game are, as was stated already, "Hawkesexual" it feels like a cop out to really good story telling when the gay LI could have a defining conversation about it.  That's story telling and it's fine.  Just "Make everyone bi so no one complains" kinda kills immerssion because you know why they're ALL like that.

[GSSAGE7]

I for one only have an issue with Anders being bi. Merril doesn't seem to show any attraction to anyone but Hawke, so it may just be subjective in her case. Isabela can screw anything that moves, and she admits it. Fenris... I dunno. For Anders, it's another case of him being different from Awakening. Different personality, different appearance (just like everyone else), different voice.

But in case you can't tell from my ranting, my problem is more with Anders than the sexuality.

[Beamobaby]

I think it was great that they added more love interests for gay and bi people, but Anders was just too aggressive. Maybe its more realistic, but none of the female LIs for a male Hawke were like that.

To be honest it kinda felt like I was being punished for being straight since all the olive branch dialogue options led only to breaking his heart and losing friendship or being his boyfriend.

If you're gonna tell people to just deal with it on something like that then by that justification everyone could have told gay people to just deal with it in Origins. Instead Bioware listened and helped them out which is awesome.

Again, its great that they're being more inclusive in their games, but I just don't think it got implemented right in the case of Anders. And Gaider's reasoning for aggressive NPCs (he's got his points there) is kinda what makes me agree with the idea for a sexuality option in the character creation screen.

I have no issue with any character being straight, gay, bi, trans, etc (I like the term Hawkesexual). I just took issue with the uber aggressive come on from Anders. A sexuality toggle could easily make that a non-issue.

[The Angry One]

Beamobaby wrote...

I think it was great that they added more love interests for gay and bi people, but Anders was just too aggressive. Maybe its more realistic, but none of the female LIs for a male Hawke were like that.

....

What?
The first damn time you meet Isabela she makes at least two heavily flirtatious remarks, then invites you to "her room" at the end of her quest no matter what you say.