310 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

As I said just my opinion I just thought that the romances whether straight or gay would have some differences and not be exactly the same. Also glad you obviously read my other posts  Get over yourself

Aside from biological differences, and despite stereotypes, homosexual relationships can be as tender or raunchy as hetero. It depends on the person, not the sexual preference.

[PlumPaul93]

The Angry One wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

As I said just my opinion I just thought that the romances whether straight or gay would have some differences and not be exactly the same. Also glad you obviously read my other posts  Get over yourself

Aside from biological differences, and despite stereotypes, homosexual relationships can be as tender or raunchy as hetero. It depends on the person, not the sexual preference.

I understand this I just thought the writers would do something other than copying and pasting the romances like they did for areas...

[The Angry One]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

As I said just my opinion I just thought that the romances whether straight or gay would have some differences and not be exactly the same. Also glad you obviously read my other posts  Get over yourself

Aside from biological differences, and despite stereotypes, homosexual relationships can be as tender or raunchy as hetero. It depends on the person, not the sexual preference.

I understand this I just thought the writers would do something other than copying and pasting the romances like they did for areas...

Look at it this way, male or female Hawke has basically the same personality (they run off the same scripts with some variables of course) so the LIs are essentially interacting with the same person. There's no reason for it to be very different no matter the gender.

Modifié par The Angry One, 27 mars 2011 - 04:21 .

[PlumPaul93]

The Angry One wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

As I said just my opinion I just thought that the romances whether straight or gay would have some differences and not be exactly the same. Also glad you obviously read my other posts  Get over yourself

Aside from biological differences, and despite stereotypes, homosexual relationships can be as tender or raunchy as hetero. It depends on the person, not the sexual preference.

I understand this I just thought the writers would do something other than copying and pasting the romances like they did for areas...

Look at it this way, male or female Hawke has basically the same personality (they run off the same scripts with some variables of course) so the LIs are essentially interacting with the same person. There's no reason for it to be very different no matter the gender.

Well I guess but I will still attribute this to lazy writing

[Denizen89]

Mr.Gaider. I hope you read this. With all due respect sir, I respect your view on sexuality and its one that I share as well. I find that romance options are not really sub-options as characters have a huge impact to critical and financial success it is important to consider it as thus. To keep the player from putting the game down, turning off the system, and returning the game out of the rationale of boredom; you need to add the human element of romance so they can keep a good deal of interest. The number of Bisexual characters doesn't particularly represent the ****** sexual or heterosexual populations it just shows pushing an idea that not everybody agrees with down their throats. I would say next game go with some bisexual, some ******, and some hetero sexual characters. Then take the time to develop their background.

[PlumPaul93]

Denizen89 wrote...

Mr.Gaider. I hope you read this. With all due respect sir, I respect your view on sexuality and its one that I share as well. I find that romance options are not really sub-options as characters have a huge impact to critical and financial success it is important to consider it as thus. To keep the player from putting the game down, turning off the system, and returning the game out of the rationale of boredom; you need to add the human element of romance so they can keep a good deal of interest. The number of Bisexual characters doesn't particularly represent the ****** sexual or heterosexual populations it just shows pushing an idea that not everybody agrees with down their throats. I would say next game go with some bisexual, some ******, and some hetero sexual characters. Then take the time to develop their background.

This

[The Angry One]

Well bi romances have always been this way in BioWare games since Silk Fox (except you couldn't see a female PC kiss her, cowards) and what's-his-face.. Sky something.
Yes it was probably the same in BG2 before that but I never played that so eh.

[The Angry One]

Denizen89 wrote...

Mr.Gaider. I hope you read this. With all due respect sir, I respect your view on sexuality and its one that I share as well. I find that romance options are not really sub-options as characters have a huge impact to critical and financial success it is important to consider it as thus. To keep the player from putting the game down, turning off the system, and returning the game out of the rationale of boredom; you need to add the human element of romance so they can keep a good deal of interest. The number of Bisexual characters doesn't particularly represent the ****** sexual or heterosexual populations it just shows pushing an idea that not everybody agrees with down their throats. I would say next game go with some bisexual, some ******, and some hetero sexual characters. Then take the time to develop their background.

The homosexual and heterosexual populations of what? Earth?
I hate to break it to you but.. this is not Earth.

This.
Is.
THEDAS.

*boot into bottomless pit*

[ShelkartMarne]

Just wanted to chip in that I'm proud to have anything to do with Mr. Gaider today, even if it is just as a consumer!

[Lumenadducere]

I'm of the opinion that making everyone bi adds far more to the game than any detraction it may have on the characters' personalities. My only qualm is the rivalry point hit when I turn Anders down, but that's from a meta-gaming perspective, as it's understandable that someone would be upset when their advances aren't received the way they'd want.

Honestly the bisexuality doesn't take anything away from your interactions with the characters. None of the romance paths do at all. You still get Fenris's anti-mage talks and his restlessness after Danarius, Anders' problems with Justice, Merrill's attempts at restoring the Eluvian, and Isabela's escapades with the artifact. Each characters' narrative arc is independent of their sexuality, and while I know that some people consider sexuality to be a large part of one's identity, this is a fantasy game...and in fantasy we can have our cake and eat it, too.

Props to those behind the decision to make the romances open to all and props to Gaider's awesome response. I really hope they do the same thing for DA3.

[PlumPaul93]

Lumenadducere wrote...

I'm of the opinion that making everyone bi adds far more to the game than any detraction it may have on the characters' personalities. My only qualm is the rivalry point hit when I turn Anders down, but that's from a meta-gaming perspective, as it's understandable that someone would be upset when their advances aren't received the way they'd want.

Honestly the bisexuality doesn't take anything away from your interactions with the characters. None of the romance paths do at all. You still get Fenris's anti-mage talks and his restlessness after Danarius, Anders' problems with Justice, Merrill's attempts at restoring the Eluvian, and Isabela's escapades with the artifact. Each characters' narrative arc is independent of their sexuality, and while I know that some people consider sexuality to be a large part of one's identity, this is a fantasy game...and in fantasy we can have our cake and eat it, too.

Props to those behind the decision to make the romances open to all and props to Gaider's awesome response. I really hope they do the same thing for DA3.

Yeah its good its there for those who want it its just annoying with the anders incident

[SexBomb]

Lumenadducere wrote...

I know that some people consider sexuality to be a large part of one's identity, this is a fantasy game...and in fantasy we can have our cake and eat it, too.

I agree with this to an extent, but I also believe fantasy is nothing without the element of reality.  After all, that's part of what allows us to bond with, relate to, and ultimately come to love certain characters and stories.

[Dangerfoot]

Denizen89 wrote...

The number of Bisexual characters ... [is] pushing an idea that not everybody agrees with down their throats. I would say next game go with some bisexual, some ******, and some hetero sexual characters. Then take the time to develop their background.

The whole point of making them all "bi" was to give the player options, not to push any agenda. I am 100% in favor of options, doesn't mean I (or Gaider) want to push anything down anyone's throat.

[skunkdoctor]

Dangerfoot wrote...

Denizen89 wrote...

The number of Bisexual characters ... [is] pushing an idea that not everybody agrees with down their throats. I would say next game go with some bisexual, some ******, and some hetero sexual characters. Then take the time to develop their background.

The whole point of making them all "bi" was to give the player options, not to push any agenda. I am 100% in favor of options, doesn't mean I (or Gaider) want to push anything down anyone's throat.

Apparently, the problem is is that they can't discriminate in-game without playing a female. Oh noes, a dude is going to hit on me. Now I am going to make a long post detailing why it isn't homophobic and is a legitimate gameplay criticism that I don't want my companions to be attracted to me.

[AngelicMachinery]

All this biphobia is making me sad.

[khevan]

I, for one, fall into the category of "It's kinda wierd that every person who is interested in Hawke is bisexual."

That just made me go "Huh?"

I have absolutely no issue with homosexual content, no issue with so-called "alternate" lifestyle choices in my games. I liked the fact that Anders would flirt with you without you initiating it. To be honest, yes, it made me uncomfortable, because I am a heterosexual male, and homosexuality does kinda squick me out, but Anders is who he is, and I've been hit on by men in real life before. It's akward, uncomfortable, and definately gave me the heebee jeebees, but it's a quick "Hey, I don't swing that way." and the situation is resolved. So, no issues there...

But for every single LI in the game to be bisexual just makes me scratch my head and think "Really? What are the odds?" Yes, it can be argued that in a fantasy setting, especially in regards to the Main Hero™ that unlikely things happen all the time. And I agree, but when it's this blatant, no matter the cause, I always think "Yeah, right. WAAAY to obvious of a writing ploy." I don't care if the Hero finds the "Supreme Magical Hoodikky" at just the right moment, or whether his companions have just the right skills/equipment to get thru a situation...it feels hokey to me. This is one of those situations, where it feels hokey.

But, that all being said, even if it felt hokey, I'm not going to argue that they should be changed, because it does give options to people who otherwise wouldn't have the options. I just wish there were a way to give options without it feeling like an obvious writing ploy.

[Emperor Iaius I]

I. As far as copy-pasted romances, I know that the Merrill romance dialogue is different based on Hawke's gender.

II. It's not that they're necessarily all bisexual, it's just that they can go either way depending on the gender of the player character. It's a matter of freedom and/or accomodation for different players. If you don't flirt, you'd have no reason to know (aside from Anders and Isabella, I guess).

[Arppis]

Maybe people in the world of Dragon Age aren't as stuck up as they are here IN REAAAAL WORLD?

Sure, there are clear heterosexual people in the game. But still, religion for one there doesn't seem to judge homosexuality or bisexuality (you can correct me if I am wrong thou, if there is some codex entry about it or something). So, maybe these people don't care so much about what is their "locked up" sexual identity?

I don't care really, the characters ARE well written and you can always say no if you are not interested.

[Beamobaby]

The only thing that was pushed down your throat was Anders if you were playing a nice male straight character. It led right to a loss of friendship points. All the other characters expressed an interest in you which you were free to politely refuse. You could only impolitely refuse Anders and that made me feel almost like I was being punished for being straight and nice. IMO that Anders come-on was the only part of the LIs that needed changing. Props for Bioware for being progressive.

[Arppis]

Beamobaby wrote...

The only thing that was pushed down your throat was Anders if you were playing a nice male straight character. It led right to a loss of friendship points. All the other characters expressed an interest in you which you were free to politely refuse. You could only impolitely refuse Anders and that made me feel almost like I was being punished for being straight and nice. IMO that Anders come-on was the only part of the LIs that needed changing. Props for Bioware for being progressive.

This too. I hated the fact that I couldn't say no nicely.

[Icinix]

All I wanted to say to Anders "Sorry mate, but I don't swing that way. No hard feelings?"

What we got was...

"I don't want you thinking about me like that EVER AGAIN!" *angry face stare down*

..this was my only issue with ALL the romance dialogue. Basically you made Hawke either A) Flirt with Anders or Act threatened and intimidated...way to go...

[Beamobaby]

Yeah, the game didn't have any other character back you into a corner like Anders did. The game didn't follow its own rules with him. If they at least had someone else force you to make a decision as well, then that would have rounded out the playing field and gave people less of an argument. As it stands tho, I think the Anders thing is the only place where people can have any legitimate issues.

[Sharn01]

Freeway911 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yes, yes there were. Several.
If you've played Fallout: New Vegas, there is also hate and controversy because of one companion, Arcade Gannon, who happens to be gay.
There is no romance in New Vegas, nor does he ever hit on a male protagonist. But people hate him anyway, just because.

Figures they hate him but not Veronica because thats ok by most standards.

The Angry One wrote...
They do have a set preference. It just so happens that 4 of them are bisexual. Nothing about any of their personalities says otherwise.
If you think that Isabela can be bisexual because she's promiscuous and Merril can't because she's socially awkward and innocent you're just engaging in a fallacy. Neither state requires the other; there are plenty of introverted people who are bi and raunchy ones who are straight as a pole.

I get your point and understand what you are saying but damn what are the odds.


It would be interesting or sad to see the melt down most of these people would have if they were hit on by a guy in the real world. Yes I say guy because I haven't seen one thread started by a woman complaining yet. Not saying there isn't one just I haven't seen it.

I am guessing the odds are pretty low, but a lot better then the odds that Hawke's mom just happened to look exactly like the dead love of a sociopathic mass murdering blood mage who is trying to recontruct her from people he finds around town.  Its funny how people will scream about the odds of 4 bisexual people in a small party but not about things as extremely unlikely as this.

[Arppis]

Icinix wrote...

All I wanted to say to Anders "Sorry mate, but I don't swing that way. No hard feelings?"

What we got was...

"I don't want you thinking about me like that EVER AGAIN!" *angry face stare down*

..this was my only issue with ALL the romance dialogue. Basically you made Hawke either A) Flirt with Anders or Act threatened and intimidated...way to go...

Yep, why there even was 2 romance options for that part.

[Sharn01]

The Angry One wrote...

Denizen89 wrote...

Mr.Gaider. I hope you read this. With all due respect sir, I respect your view on sexuality and its one that I share as well. I find that romance options are not really sub-options as characters have a huge impact to critical and financial success it is important to consider it as thus. To keep the player from putting the game down, turning off the system, and returning the game out of the rationale of boredom; you need to add the human element of romance so they can keep a good deal of interest. The number of Bisexual characters doesn't particularly represent the ****** sexual or heterosexual populations it just shows pushing an idea that not everybody agrees with down their throats. I would say next game go with some bisexual, some ******, and some hetero sexual characters. Then take the time to develop their background.

The homosexual and heterosexual populations of what? Earth?
I hate to break it to you but.. this is not Earth.

This.
Is.
THEDAS.

*boot into bottomless pit*

I am currently playing a table top game where everything in the world has what is called a gnosis rating.  Its a rating between 1 to 100, and the higher it is the more of a link you have to the supernatural, gods fall in the 40+ range, humans and humanoid races fall between 1 and 10, with the vast majority below 5.  Player characters always have a gnosis of 10, the max for a mundane life form, its given to players to represent the fact that they are tied more closely to the supernatural world then a normal human, which is why so many odd situations always happen to them that would never happen to a regular person. 

I think its a pretty good way to explain why players always seem to find trouble in a world where most people would die within a day if they left the comfort of their protected homes if they encountered the weird of the world even half as often.  It would also apply to a situations like DA2, where Hawke happens to come to a town where a war between quinari and humans is about to take place, then the mages and templars, finds a rare object in the deep roads that hasnt been discovered for many centuries, has her mom look exactly like a blood mage cereal killers ex lover who is trying to rebuild her, and yes, encounters four bisexual companions.

Modifié par Sharn01, 27 mars 2011 - 08:17 .