310 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

....

I see that people clearly have deeply ingrained belief systems for both sides of the coin here.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me. The lizard people are coming to eat us all anyway. *shrug*

[Dangerfoot]

The Angry One wrote...

Dangerfoot wrote...

He hits on you once, to be honest I never even noticed him hitting on me. How is that them forcing anything, or trying to be politically correct? Jesus, people.

Trying to understand this will just lead to banging your head on the desk.
Anders pushiness, which is part of his character, is minor compared to, say, Isabela or Zevran.

See I feel that Isabella and Zevran are two of the weaker characters because they rely so much on their sexuality to tell the player who they are. Meanwhile, Anders flirts once with a dude, and people think he's a symbol of heterosexual hate.

To me, the ambiguous sexuality is a lot more easy to take than a character that lives with a neon sign over their head.

[Beamobaby]

The dialogue system in Origins was different so its hard to compare it.

But in DA2 most characters would make their come on and you could take it or leave it with any dialogue option but the heart.

If you followed the nice olive branch options with Anders' come-on, you had to choose between heartbreak and heart options. Nothing else.

That was the one flaw in its implementation.

I don't think its too much to ask for NPCs to not be so pushy.

[The Angry One]

How the hell is Anders "punishment for being straight"?
It's ONE convo, that MAY get you rivalry points, where again Anders is a little pushy because that is his character.
If you want Anders to be chaste then YOU are the one diminishing a character and compromising the game because you want him to be something his character as written is not.

[Beamobaby]

Oh god, don't attack us like that. See, everyone is blowing this one small legitimate complaint into a huge deal resorting to schoolyard tactics to delegitimize.

Obvious troll is obvious?

[Beamobaby]

To The Angry One

so no one had any justification in asking to be able to romance Alistair in Origins then? It was his character right? You yourself said you were sad you couldn't romance Alistair. Sure you admitted it was the defined background of the character but you still wished it could've been different right?

I'm not saying I'll toss the game in the trash because I'm so offended by homosexuality. I'm just saying I wish that your dialogue options with Anders' come-on worked the same as the other LIs.

But I guess asking that I don't get backed into a corner get me labeled as a homophobe and apparently a pedophile.

[Lithuasil]

Yet here you are, claiming that one single line of dialogue, that might get you a few rivalry points with the easiest to please character in the game, offends you worse then franken-leandra? :|

[The Angry One]

Beamobaby wrote...

To The Angry One

so no one had any justification in asking to be able to romance Alistair in Origins then? It was his character right? You yourself said you were sad you couldn't romance Alistair. Sure you admitted it was the defined background of the character but you still wished it could've been different right?

Erm, that wasn't me since I have in fact romanced Alistair and married him.
As to whether Alistair should have been bisexual, that's up to the writers. I for one would see nothing wrong with it if that's what they wanted to do. It turns out it wasn't, or they saw no need - fine.

I'm not saying I'll toss the game in the trash because I'm so offended by homosexuality. I'm just saying I wish that your dialogue options with Anders' come-on worked the same as the other LIs.

Why should he be the same? Here people complain that LIs are too generic to begin with, Anders reacts differently (in an easily reversable way) and you're upset about it?
The point here is it's just not a big deal. Reject Anders, take rivalry points or don't (it doesn't matter) and move on.

Modifié par The Angry One, 27 mars 2011 - 10:17 .

[Beamobaby]

Where did I personally say that it offends me?

I know this thread is filled with a lot of people with different beliefs (some of just straight up bad), but that's not what I myself have been saying.

Yeah, it made me feel a little annoyed and awkward. That's what I've personally been saying from the start. That doesn't equate to offended by vile gay people.

[Beamobaby]

The Angry One. Ok, I guess it was someone else who said that. I'll apologize for putting you as that person.

[Fluffykeith]

Im struggling to see what the big deal is. I admit I was a bit suprised at Ander's come on, not because he did it, since I feel that people (and characters in games) shouldn't be afraid to express theyre feelings...what suprised me is that he did it directly after h first joined as a companion. It was a bit sudden.

The idea that his come on is somehow insulting towards straight male gamers (Hi there!!!), or disgusting, or whatever...its just ridiculous, and pretty childish.
Its expecting the game to be something its not and was never advertised to be. In fact the fact that the player can romance their companions, of both genders, was never a secret. And, lets face it, theres plenty of female characters for the male Hawke to show interest in, so its not like Anders making a pass at you suddenly negates all that.

Really..whats the big deal? He makes a pass at you, you get to say yes or no. If you dont like it, say no and move on. He never mentions it again.

[Vhalkyrie]

So much for ending the controversy with an official response. Bioware does not agree with you. Move on.

[fluorine7]

I often wonder, why we never heard gay people say they're "offended" by heterosexual relationship. Yet, when there's gay relationship or bi-relationship in game, TV shows, movies, straight people raise up complaining about being "offended".

I wonder why.

[The Angry One]

Anders' immediacy can be explained by his neediness. He's merged with Justice against his better judgement and is under constant pressure, plus he's just had to kill his former lover turned tranquil.
So in that moment he sees the only person who's genuinely helped him - Hawke - and makes a pass.

[Trophonius]

Thats-Your-Funeral wrote...

Thoughts from a polysexual male gamer, LGBT activist and character animation student...

While I do appreciate the ability to romance whomever I choose, I will admit it does take away a little from the believability of the Dragon Age world. Granted, it did disappoint me in DAO that I was not able to romance Alistair, but at the same time I commended them for making the characters more real, in that sense. What I would have liked to see, however, were some flirty options that he could have rejected. It would have been sad, but hey.  Maybe a heavy make-out scene before our favourite Ferelden prince decides it "feels wrong." Romance doesn't always work out. I feel like that's something they could have included in DAII, (in fact they did, to an extent, with Avaline). Yes, it's great to see a wide range of romancable characters for every gender and orientation, but more than that, I enjoy believability. With a 10% gay population (I think that was the consensus for 2010?) and an even lesser bisexual population, I found it a little odd that I could pretty much pick anyone I wanted. ...If only reality worked that way, hmm?

It's not entirely inconceivable for Merrill, Anders, Isabela, and Fenris to be available for both Hawkes. Merrill has never had any sort of experience, romantic or sexual, with anyone before meeting you while Fenris is an amnesiac whose memories are limited to post-lyrium engraving. I see them as being more malleable than Isabela and Anders because their sexualities aren't clearly defined.

Isabela and Anders, on the other hand, are the only ones whose sexualities are treated as aspects of their characterization, which naturally places them in the same category as Leliana and Zevran. For example, Isabela's self-indulgence and carnality is part of her personality. Her unabashed attraction to both men and women is part of her identity. Same can be said for Zevran, who will practically sleep with anybody because that's who he is. Meanwhile, Anders and Leliana previously had same sex lovers that heavily influenced their outlook on life. Karl was a victim of oppression in the same way Anders was and through this similarity, formed a romantic bond. When the templars brutally abused the Rite of Tranquility on Karl, it served to fuel Anders' rage even further and subsequently inspired the manifestation of Vengeance in him. Likewise, Marjolaine was Leliana's mentor, but through the years, Leliana fell in love with her and became a devoted lover to her until her betrayal. This betrayal eventually shook Leliana's beliefs about her decisions and began to doubt herself.

I suppose it depends on the varying perceptions about whether or not these characters are merely "fanservice" to cater to your every whim.

Hell, if we're going to argue about how DA:O was more realistic because Alistair's heterosexuality can be attributed to his life in the Chantry, then we can also conclude that the hedonistic life of circle mages and pirates would be sufficient reasons to explain Isabela and Anders' bisexuality.

[Icinix]

fluorine7 wrote...

I often wonder, why we never heard gay people say they're "offended" by heterosexual relationship. Yet, when there's gay relationship or bi-relationship in game, TV shows, movies, straight people raise up complaining about being "offended".

I wonder why.

Pfft. I'm offended by relationships.

Can't we just all have big orgies and move on?

[Beamobaby]

Fluffykeith

I never said I was offended. I said I felt a bit annoyed and awkward. But you're suggesting I felt personally insulted.

I've personally only been expressing my opinion that the Anders come-on was either not handled in the same fashion as the game puts other LIs, or NPCs shouldn't be pushy in their come-ons.

You basically said my opinion is equivalent to wanting only "chaste little virgins with no personality diversity to romance." That's why I called you a troll.

If I'm guilty of letting things get out of control then I'm not the only one.

[Beamobaby]

Whoops! Again got the wrong person. Apologies!

[The Angry One]

Beamobaby wrote...

I've personally only been expressing my opinion that the Anders come-on was either not handled in the same fashion as the game puts other LIs, or NPCs shouldn't be pushy in their come-ons.

See I don't get that myself, I appreciate diversity in such things.
For example in DA:O I liked how Zevran was always up for meaningless sex, Leliana was fairly pushy and Alistair was quite shy.
Similarily in DA2, Anders is fairly needy and pushy (until you say no), Merril and Fenris are shy and Isabela is practically molesting you with her eyes. Different people do different things. NPCs just being there for when you're ready is a little stale.

[Fluffykeith]

"I never said I was offended. I said I felt a bit annoyed and awkward. But you're suggesting I felt personally insulted."

Actually I was statng that I dont see why people are making such a deal over this. Its a remarkably trivial thing, really. You have your right to your opinion, and I have my right to be bamboozled by it.
FYI- When Anders did it to me, I was a bit "O.o", but because he did it right after he'd joined as a companion and I thought it was way too soon (he barely knew my Hawke), and he only just had to kill Karl. It seemed like totally the wrong time. So I said no.

"You basically said my opinion is equivalent to wanting only "chaste little virgins with no personality diversity to romance." That's why I called you a troll."

I think you mean some other person, cos you didnt call me a troll.

[Beamobaby]

See! That's your opinion and that's great!

I just came on this thread to say how I felt about the Anders thing and a lot of people have just been badmouthing. I guess I'm new to arguing on the internet.

[Beamobaby]

Yeah, it was Shavon. Sorry homie!