154 réponses à ce sujet

[DrGulag]

This is why I use Direct 2 Drive, the game remains on your account indeffinitely (so far as I've seen so far) and you never have to worry about useless or damaged CDs; not to mention they often have deals out for 10-20% off for preorders. D2D has saved me so many headaches the last few years I don't shop anywhere else.

So it basically works like steam?

I've purchased games from steam but what happens if these companies go bust? Many of them require you to be online when you start the game but if there's no server after bankruptcy how do you download the copy or activate it?

But I guess the risk is lower if one considers that it's also possible to lose/damage your physical copy of the game.

Modifié par DrGulag, 27 mars 2011 - 12:58 .

[Bathead]

nightlordv wrote...

Amazon already has this marked down to $30 bucks? Damn...that has to say something

Nope. 47 and change.

[Ariella]

eno detah wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Its a matter of integrity, if someone returns the game, gets a refund, they shouldn't be using the forums for registered game users. That just bothers me, nothing to do with the DLC or anything.

Well, FWIW, I will promise you that I will stop contributing to this forum if it bothers you, once I've received my refund. Amazon says it takes <=4 weeks from the date you drop it at UPS, which I intend to do on Tuesday (traveling on Monday).

I won't delete my account (as you mentioned those returning the game should do in another post) as the account is meta to this particular title.

Not your  account at all, just your registration for this game, is all. I have no problem if you want to particpate in forums where you've other registered games or the ones that don't require registration for this one, if your exerience with DA2 hasn't completely soured you to Bioware. My concern is mostly for a certain species (whom from your posts you don't seem to represent) who'd take advantage of this to flood the registered user forums with spam of how much they loath the game.

The spamming "this suxs (fill in purposely misspelled colorful metaphors here)" makes it hard for those who like the game, and even those who don't to have civil conversations about the pros and cons. I mean after reading "this sux" some many times in so many variations without any civility would make Andraste curse. I'd prefer to see that not happen, but there are always unfortunately people who'll take advantage of any sitution to aggitate.

I do apologize, eno, if you thought I was targetting you in particular. That wasn't my intention at all, and I am honestly sorry that DA2 didn't work out for you, and am glad you were able to get a refund. Hopefully, we'll both find the next  DA to our liking and can have a good conversation about it.

[eno detah]

Ariella wrote...

I do apologize, eno, if you thought I was targetting you in particular. That wasn't my intention at all, and I am honestly sorry that DA2 didn't work out for you, and am glad you were able to get a refund. Hopefully, we'll both find the next  DA to our liking and can have a good conversation about it.

No harm, no foul, and I appreciate the kind words. I also apologize if I perceived a slight that only existed in my mind; I strapped on my +1024 vs Fire Damage after creating this thread knowing that it would be polarizing but sometimes it's hard not to be defensive.

Beyond that, I'm still hopeful Bioware can fix DA2 (including my corrupted/damaged saves) and I can eventually find more free time to try to finish the game. I would certainly consider playing another DA title (and if so, most definitely, look forward to chatting more then!); I just probably won't pre-order next time around.

All the best!

[Ariella]

DrGulag wrote...

As I understand the QA process, it happens before the master disk goes for replication and packaging, which is handled elsewhere. So the error occurred at the factory after the QA process was complete, and Bioware was unaware of the problem till the game was in play, as it were.

They are responsible for the product regardless of what happened. I don't care if it was the neighbours dog or Joe the Plumber burning the data into all those Blu-Ray discs. I'm not having any of that nor should the consumer care how annoying EA finds it to produce updates via Playstation Network.

I'm not saying it's annoying, but I am saying it's expensive, so Bioware/EA are going to do all they can to maximize what comes in that title update, as it's not economically viable just to spend 10,000 dollars or so for a title update that contains one thing. If anything will up the price of games, that will. Also consider that both Sony and MS have their own quality assurance testing of title updates/DLC (part of that fee), which also takes time. It's why I referred you back to the archive over RtO, since there was a lot of frank discussion about certification, how it works and why.

You screw up and you give back the cash and perhaps an added bonus. That's how it works in many other businesses, no questions asked.

Thing is, I'm unsure who handled replication, if it was inhouse EA or somewhere else. If it was the latter, it'd be EA who should get their money back since the contractor screwed up. If it's the former, then EA needs to deal with inhouse issues.

ps. I do see your point regarding the use of these forums though. When you essentially pay for a service it can be a tad annoying if someone else has the same access.

I think it's reasonable to let people voice their frustration after having to deal with all this nonsense in any case. They might be gone soon enough, not necessarily a good thing for Bioware unless they make up for it with new customers. 

I have no problem with reasonable, sensible venting, and even less problem with criticism that's constructive, even if it's negative. My problem comes, as I mentioned to eno (the OP) when I've had to sort through the 100th post of one or two line varations of "this game sucks", which many times have colorful metaphors that are just immature and innappropriate. Maybe it's the mom in me, or maybe I've gotten less tolerant in my old age, but the urge to lash back at them with a "shut up" (which I know logically won't work) becomes intolerable.

I'd much rather have conversations like this, where even if people are frustrated with the level of service in dealing with issues, they can discuss it without resorting to four letter words and lousy behaviour, because that'll just continue the cycle of people lashing at each other and that does no one any good.

I think it's fair to say the majority of the people come here because we enjoy Bioware and their games most of the time, and to have fun discussing those games with other fans. And again, as I said to eno, I look forward to discussing any of Bioware's games in any forum with other players who may differ with me, but can be cogent in their arguments and don't see the best way of getting their point across as shouting at the rain,

[Dan UK]

Ravenmyste wrote...

oh good then the cry babies will leave and let the older players enjoy the game.

 Smooth....

[MonkeyLungs]

Ariella wrote...

As for the auto-attack, I'm willing to bet money it'll be in the first title update for the consoles, as it was a MISTAKE that was deleted from the master when it went gold. I specifically rememeber there being auto attack in the demo for the 360, so it wasn't a lie or a failed to deliever promise, there was a mistake made when the disk was replicated.

You are either lying or have a poor memory. There is NO auto-attack in the 360 version of the demo. There never was EVER.

[elearon1]

DrGulag wrote...So it basically works like steam?

I've purchased games from steam but what happens if these companies go bust? Many of them require you to be online when you start the game but if there's no server after bankruptcy how do you download the copy or activate it?

But I guess the risk is lower if one considers that it's also possible to lose/damage your physical copy of the game.

I thought I'd heard Steam forced you to do some kind of activation through them as well as your account on EA to play the game, and if Steam was down you were just out of luck.  D2D requires you download it from their site, but there is no other need to interact with them once that is done.

Direct 2 Drive has been around long enough and seems stable enough that I'm not worried about them going bankrupt, though even if they eventually did I'd probably still have access to the game longer than with an easily damaged hard copy. (which on more than one occasion was actually damaged when I bought it and had to be replaced - don't have to worry about that with D2D or similar services)

[MonkeyLungs]

DrGulag wrote...

So what are you suggesting here, that no one was there to QA the product before it hit the shelves? And if it wasn't bad enough, it's been over two weeks already. Making a mistake is no excuse when people are paying for the game.

ps. The DLC and other registration codes can only be used once so that's really a non-issue. They are going to be part of my account regardless of what happens to the physical copy (but I see your point though).

The person you were responding to has complettely misrepresented the facts. There IS NOT, THERE NEVER HAS BEEN AT ANY POINT IN TIME WORKING AUTO ATTACK ON THE 360 VERSION OF THE GAME.

If peple will please quit lying that would be awesom ... (like BUTTON---->AWESOME!!!)

[Ariella]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Ariella wrote...

As for the auto-attack, I'm willing to bet money it'll be in the first title update for the consoles, as it was a MISTAKE that was deleted from the master when it went gold. I specifically rememeber there being auto attack in the demo for the 360, so it wasn't a lie or a failed to deliever promise, there was a mistake made when the disk was replicated.

You are either lying or have a poor memory. There is NO auto-attack in the 360 version of the demo. There never was EVER.

I have a very good memory, and in fact when I played the full game on the 360 for the first time, I was surprised that the feature wasn't there. I suggest, MonkeyLungs, that maybe instead of accusing someone of lying, you try a less confrontational stance. It'll get you better responses.

[MonkeyLungs]

Ariella wrote...

As I understand the QA process, it happens before the master disk goes for replication and packaging, which is handled elsewhere. So the error occurred at the factory after the QA process was complete, and Bioware was unaware of the problem till the game was in play, as it were. As for the lack of title update so far, considering the cost that both Microsoft and Sony charge for certification on DLC and Title Updates, it makes sense to get as many fixes in to one update as possible. If you want to see how this works check the archives over the Return to Ostagar debatical, where MS released it prior to Bioware being ready and there was a huge error. There was a lot of talk at the time about cost of re-certification etc... I think it was said $10K per each certification for Xbox, not sure what the rate is for Sony. So that's might partially be why no title update yet. I also expect they're going through all the feedback, trying to replicate the bugs, hunt them down in the code and make sure the fixes don't break anything else.

You don't actually understand at all. Here's why:
1. The master (Gold Copy) tested before pressing thousands of copies. The Xbox Master is tested on Xbox's, PS3 on PS3's and the PC on PC's.
2. The first TITLE UPDATE for Xbox 360 is free for all developers. They have to pay after that.

[neppakyo]

*sigh* If only I could de-registered and return my PC copy for a refund.. got mine at gamestop.

But alas, you cannot return PC versions.

[MonkeyLungs]

Ariella wrote...

I have a very good memory, and in fact when I played the full game on the 360 for the first time, I was surprised that the feature wasn't there. I suggest, MonkeyLungs, that maybe instead of accusing someone of lying, you try a less confrontational stance. It'll get you better responses.

Now you really are lying. The Xbox 360 demo does not feature auto attack. This was a major point of contention for people when they played the demo. It was stated that it was not in the demo but would be in the final version (stated by Bioware employees).

[Ariella]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Ariella wrote...

As I understand the QA process, it happens before the master disk goes for replication and packaging, which is handled elsewhere. So the error occurred at the factory after the QA process was complete, and Bioware was unaware of the problem till the game was in play, as it were. As for the lack of title update so far, considering the cost that both Microsoft and Sony charge for certification on DLC and Title Updates, it makes sense to get as many fixes in to one update as possible. If you want to see how this works check the archives over the Return to Ostagar debatical, where MS released it prior to Bioware being ready and there was a huge error. There was a lot of talk at the time about cost of re-certification etc... I think it was said $10K per each certification for Xbox, not sure what the rate is for Sony. So that's might partially be why no title update yet. I also expect they're going through all the feedback, trying to replicate the bugs, hunt them down in the code and make sure the fixes don't break anything else.

You don't actually understand at all. Here's why:
1. The master (Gold Copy) tested before pressing thousands of copies. The Xbox Master is tested on Xbox's, PS3 on PS3's and the PC on PC's.
2. The first TITLE UPDATE for Xbox 360 is free for all developers. They have to pay after that.

With the exception of knowing that the first title update is free, that's pretty much what I said. The QA process is complete before the master goes to the factory for pressing, so if the error is made in the factory, as I understand it was, it happened AFTER the QA team got a hold of it.

As for the first title update for Xbox being free, even more reason to hold off and get as many bug fixes as possible into the free update, don't you think?

[Chaos_1001]

eno detah wrote...

Just a heads up that I received a very nice note from Amazon a few moments ago (edit: in response to my refund request) letting me know that they are aware of all of the DA2 issues and that they are offering full refunds (provided it was bought and fulfilled by them) within the first 30 days, even if opened.

Given that EA/Bioware has offered no timelines on when a patch will be available, nor what the contents of the patch will be, I'm going to take advantage of this (as it appears others in the PS3 forum are doing).

Just a heads up (and a reminder, given that you're closing in on 3 weeks if you preordered like I did).

I don't hate the game (in fact, I really wanted to like it and finish it); just can't deal with all the bugs + freezing, and, most especially, the poor communication from EA/Bioware on the issue. I'll consider picking up a new copy if/when enough of the issues are addressed.

My thanks to those who answered my gameplay questions, shared their freezing et al experiences, etc.

edit: typo
edit2: clarified that I requested a refund; never claimed they proactively emailed all DA2 owners

So....

In your statement above ^ nothing was in fact wrong with the game other than the fact you did not enjoy it ?


I see ..

Go to the Help section via this link after logging in:
https://www.amazon.c...-questions.html

Click the "Choose a Different Order" button if your most recent purchase wasn't DA2 (I purchased mine back in Oct so had to go back 6 months to find it).

I chose the "Problem with an order", then "Defective" option for the reason.

Should be self explanatory from there.

edit: PM me this weekend if you have issues; won't be checking much after that.

These are your instructions on the same exact thread describing the way to deal with how you disliked the product..

Nice, not only are you pulling a fast one on amazon.com, but completly trying to screw Bioware / EA over in the same shot.. Very crafty I admit and also very deceitful ! So if indeed people chase after this idea , Amazon gets a flood of "defective" products and has to at some point report this to EA. EA looks into this run of defective products and at first has no answer for it. They in turn bring it to Bioware's attention that their product was either burned incorrectly in production or the code itself has a very major issue. Then Bioware investigates where this all started from and sees this post. Now ask yourself , what do you think is going to happen to you personally for this if it goes that far ?

I'll let that rattle around in your mind for a bit

Modifié par Chaos_1001, 27 mars 2011 - 02:09 .

[Ariella]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Ariella wrote...

I have a very good memory, and in fact when I played the full game on the 360 for the first time, I was surprised that the feature wasn't there. I suggest, MonkeyLungs, that maybe instead of accusing someone of lying, you try a less confrontational stance. It'll get you better responses.

Now you really are lying. The Xbox 360 demo does not feature auto attack. This was a major point of contention for people when they played the demo. It was stated that it was not in the demo but would be in the final version (stated by Bioware employees).

It is possible I may have been mistaken, as I played the demo on both Xbox on PC, just as I am the game. However, I find your accusations of lying overly confrontational and offensive. Did I drive over your dog or something or are you just looking for a fight this evening?

[MonkeyLungs]

Ariella wrote...

[With the exception of knowing that the first title update is free, that's pretty much what I said. The QA process is complete before the master goes to the factory for pressing, so if the error is made in the factory, as I understand it was, it happened AFTER the QA team got a hold of it.

As for the first title update for Xbox being free, even more reason to hold off and get as many bug fixes as possible into the free update, don't you think?

They Test the Master Copy BEFORE pressing thousands of copies. Nobody spends hundreds of thousands of dollars pressing an untested Master. 

Further ... NO I dpon't think the first TU being free is a good reason to hold off getting patches to the community. Bioware should be getting patches out to us as fast as possible, whether they have to pay or not. It's not like they are starving.

[DrGulag]

It is possible I may have been mistaken, as I played the demo on both Xbox on PC, just as I am the game. However, I find your accusations of lying overly confrontational and offensive. Did I drive over your dog or something or are you just looking for a fight this evening?

It's a pretty sensitive issue, because customers are really angry about it at the moment. It basically renders the game unplayable to many people so any excuse or wrong information might start a flame war at this point. It's a sad state of affairs but this game has polarized the entire community and there's no solid info from Bioware concerning a possible patch for a problem they promised wouldn't exist. They outright stated after the demo that "no worries it'll be there"

..and.....it's the internet after all.

Modifié par DrGulag, 27 mars 2011 - 02:11 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Ariella wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Ariella wrote...

I have a very good memory, and in fact when I played the full game on the 360 for the first time, I was surprised that the feature wasn't there. I suggest, MonkeyLungs, that maybe instead of accusing someone of lying, you try a less confrontational stance. It'll get you better responses.

Now you really are lying. The Xbox 360 demo does not feature auto attack. This was a major point of contention for people when they played the demo. It was stated that it was not in the demo but would be in the final version (stated by Bioware employees).

It is possible I may have been mistaken, as I played the demo on both Xbox on PC, just as I am the game. However, I find your accusations of lying overly confrontational and offensive. Did I drive over your dog or something or are you just looking for a fight this evening?

Sorry if I am coming acorss strongly. This auto-attack issue is just so counter to everything I know about how people with integrity handle customer service. I am not looking for a fight and apologize for aiming my discontent directly at you. It wasn't your fault that auto-attack was not included.

[eno detah]

Chaos_1001 wrote...

eno detah wrote...

I don't hate the game (in fact, I really wanted to like it and finish it); just can't deal with all the bugs + freezing, and, most especially, the poor communication from EA/Bioware on the issue. I'll consider picking up a new copy if/when enough of the issues are addressed.
[i]

So....

In your statement above ^ nothing was in fact wrong with the game other than the fact you did not enjoy it ?

You must have misread; or perhaps you're just trolling. I'll assume you just misread and reply once, despite your insult.

I experienced over a dozen freezes during my (incomplete) playthrough; far more than I consider reasonable. I experienced severe audio clipping in -every- dialog scene. I "caught" the Isabella bug, because I played my character how I wanted to (dueled the Quanari), which ultimately gimped my character. I experienced the Maker's Sigh bug on day 1 or 2 before it was well known. I experienced polygon dropouts (seeing the "sky" on the "ground"). Quests did not trigger correctly for me in Act 1 and Act 3 (what I played of Act 3 that is).

Through all of that, I repeatedly and politely requested more and better communication from Bioware, but did not receive it.

None of that means I hated the (intent of the) game. But it does mean it was defective (for me), and, I refuse to be treated as I have as a (premium) paying customer.

And so, it's getting returned.

I hope you think I'm making all of this up because you had the good fortune to have a clean playthrough. If you do, drop in to the PS3 forum and see what's being reported.

[Vaille]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Further ... NO I dpon't think the first TU being free is a good reason to hold off getting patches to the community. Bioware should be getting patches out to us as fast as possible, whether they have to pay or not. It's not like they are starving.

This. BioWare dropped the ball. Period.

I really don't care if they have to dish out a little extra cash to get this feature to the customers.

We were promised auto-attack. It never arrived. We were lied to. They don't care.

[Firky]

eno detah wrote...

letting me know that they are aware of all of the DA2 issues

Really? How was that worded? 

[neppakyo]

Vaille wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Further ... NO I dpon't think the first TU being free is a good reason to hold off getting patches to the community. Bioware should be getting patches out to us as fast as possible, whether they have to pay or not. It's not like they are starving.

This. BioWare dropped the ball. Period.

I really don't care if they have to dish out a little extra cash to get this feature to the customers.

We were promised auto-attack. It never arrived. We were lied to. They don't care.

As my sig says.. "EA's support lines automatic answering machine; We already got your money, now go away"

[MonkeyLungs]

When I was a pure commision service technician for (COMPANY) on the island of (PLACE) i warrantied my work for 30 days. If I didn't fix the problem or if I caused a different problem I returned and corrected my mistake FREE OF CHARGE. I was PURE COMMISSION. This means if I had to return to fix an error it was 100% at my expense. I did mainly commercial work at big hotels. Having to do free work was very hard on me for many reasons I am sure you can figure out.

I don't really accept anything less as an answer from people who take MY money.

EDIT: To Ariella ...

Dear Ma'am/Sir,

I would liek to offer a sincere apology to you. My anger is not for you, yet I allowed my feelings to obscur my judgement. I don't usually fly off the handle like that and it was wrong of me to do so. I could easily have had the same conversation with you and been nice to you about it. I really am sorry. Hot-button issue with me I guess.

Modifié par MonkeyLungs, 27 mars 2011 - 02:20 .

[Vaille]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

When I was a pure commision service technician for (COMPANY) on the island of (PLACE) i warrantied my work for 30 days. If I didn't fix the problem or if I caused a different problem I returned and corrected my mistake FREE OF CHARGE. I was PURE COMMISSION. This means if I had to return to fix an error it was 100% at my expense. I did mainly commercial work at big hotels. Having to do free work was very hard on me for many reasons I am sure you can figure out.

Woah, woah, woah. That sounds like an incredibly responsible work ethic. Let's not get out of hand, here!