44 réponses à ce sujet

[Sherbet Lemon]

Greta13 wrote...

Haasth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Reminds me of when characters decide to discuss things right when we are going to engage in a fight to the death. I heard someone make a skmilar complaint about Merrill having a discuss right after the Dalish clan was wiped out that completely ignored their deaths. Would taking the blood magic ritual route have avoided that banter?

...Oh yes, I had something like that. When Merrill was all upset, I managed to talk the Dalish out of attacking us.. And the moment we get out of the camp she just goes on about Fenris and his sister. I mean, what? 

Sadly that's just one of the flaws in the way the game is made... Although sometimes funny, it tends to throw you out of the story every now and then annoyingly enough. 

What do you say to stop the Dalish from attacking you?

Pick the bottom option where Hawke takes responsibility.  I think the paraphrase is actually it's my fault?  They won't attack and but Merrill is exiled.  I stumbled on it randomly the first time as I was playing a good, nice mage Hawke.

[sylvanaerie]

Talk about facepalm-worthy dialogues. My Hawke had the scene with Isabella and I decided to go do Anders's companion quest next. Lo and behold there was Isabella getting 'treatment' for an STD...and my Hawke just shakes his head and says "I don't want to know..." EWWWW! Moment for me

[danteliveson]

Arppis wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

My second play through the other night, held off on All that Remains as long as possible. Was suitably anxious coming into the quest. I brought along Varric, Isabela, and Merrill.

And they start cracking jokes.

I'm not talking about regular banter, but little cutscenes as we head through the foundry.

Seriously? My mother has been kidnapped by a serial killing and these guys are being funny?

Okay, Merrill I understand, as her joke ('Ooooh, that's a pretty shrine.') can be written off as a momentary lapse in situational awareness, but it seemed out of character for the other two to be that inconsiderate of Hawke's feelings.

"Well, atleast nothing worse can happen today. It's pretty late!"

The Viscount deserved it.

[Greta13]

Village Idiot wrote...

Greta13 wrote...

Haasth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Reminds me of when characters decide to discuss things right when we are going to engage in a fight to the death. I heard someone make a skmilar complaint about Merrill having a discuss right after the Dalish clan was wiped out that completely ignored their deaths. Would taking the blood magic ritual route have avoided that banter?

...Oh yes, I had something like that. When Merrill was all upset, I managed to talk the Dalish out of attacking us.. And the moment we get out of the camp she just goes on about Fenris and his sister. I mean, what? 

Sadly that's just one of the flaws in the way the game is made... Although sometimes funny, it tends to throw you out of the story every now and then annoyingly enough. 

What do you say to stop the Dalish from attacking you?

Pick the bottom option where Hawke takes responsibility.  I think the paraphrase is actually it's my fault?  They won't attack and but Merrill is exiled.  I stumbled on it randomly the first time as I was playing a good, nice mage Hawke.

Sweet, thanks! I felt bad for killing the entire clan. Twice.

[Xewaka]

Village Idiot wrote...

Greta13 wrote...
What do you say to stop the Dalish from attacking you?

Pick the bottom option where Hawke takes responsibility.  I think the paraphrase is actually it's my fault?  They won't attack and but Merrill is exiled.  I stumbled on it randomly the first time as I was playing a good, nice mage Hawke.

The paraphrase says "I take responsibility:" What Hawke says is: "MERRIL TOTALLY DID IT, GUYS!"
I'm no lover of paraphrases in general, but that case was particularly jarring.

[MaidOfWynne]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Talk about facepalm-worthy dialogues. My Hawke had the scene with Isabella and I decided to go do Anders's companion quest next. Lo and behold there was Isabella getting 'treatment' for an STD...and my Hawke just shakes his head and says "I don't want to know..." EWWWW! Moment for me

Oh gosh thank you that made me laugh so hard!!  Poor Hawke!

I think I had some bad out of context dialogue (also involving All that Remains I think?), the main other thing I remember is characters running off and out of Hawke's life, only to remain in the party selection screen (I'm looking at YOU, Fenris), and once again resume cheerful banter with the rest of the group.

What I also had was Fenris still getting together with my male (and mage...) Hawke AFTER Hawke had slept with Anders.  I read in several places that romancing other characters was meant to nullify attempts with Fenris and remove dialogue options?  But no, all was fine. Then he stormed off, but not for real real, just for play play.  He was back on another mission within moments.

[Sinaxi]

TBH it bothered me a lot how they didn't give like a companion quest or something for each character. I understand they aren't all as serious and respectful like Aveline's character, but all those people ARE Hawke's friends. Even Isabela would have said something to Hawke, but no...it's just Aveline..and your LI. It's pretty stupid.

But yeah, I've taken Fenris/Anders/Isabela or Aveline and I didn't see too many terrible comments. That is pretty messed up though. That's sometimes why I hate using the Hawke sarcastic lines, because they are so inappropriate and in poor taste in some situations. I know, that bag of bones line that Anders does was pretty weird too...I sort of made myself believe that he just meant he hoped we would find more clues instead of pretty much nothing that could help us lol. And Isabela didn't really say anything the whole time, she looked a little weirded out and was like "Haven't we been here before..?"

Then Anders just commented that the shrine was possibly to a sister or a lover, etc. But, yeah...that quest did not have the best companion dialogue at all. Especially afterwards, it was like after you talked to Gamlen and your LI that it just never happened...very annoying.

[whykikyouwhy]

I don't know if this thread will last considering it's age...

But, while I didn't really notice any joking or light-hearted banter during All that Remains (maybe I wasn't paying close attention to dialogue), some of the companions (other than Aveline and her side quest), do give Hawke their condolences. I believe you may have to talk to them/click on them once you gather a party post-quest, but I distinctly remember Fenris and Sebastian saying some kind words.

[Sinaxi]

That was like, it, though. It was pretty much Fenris grumpily saying "er, whatever I say will be insufficient. Sorry." I just mean something more personal should have been added it would have made the gravity of the situation reflect a whole lot better than Hawke just leaving the house and going back to her adventures. But that's just my opinion.

[Rifneno]

Xewaka wrote...

The paraphrase says "I take responsibility:" What Hawke says is: "MERRIL TOTALLY DID IT, GUYS!"
I'm no lover of paraphrases in general, but that case was particularly jarring.

Nothing beats Mordin's loyalty quest in ME2.

Shepard: (paragon selected)  You're a genocidal mass-murderer, Mordin.  How do you sleep at night?

*mutter*  *reload*

Shepard (renegade selected):  You should be tortured to death, Mordin.  You're worse than every batarian slaver ever, combined and multipled by Hitler.

FFS!  *reload*

Shepard (selects "Anyone want some coffee?" option):  Anyone want some coffee?  Mordin will make it out of the trillions of krogan toddlers he murdered.

/facepalm

[whykikyouwhy]

Tidra wrote...

That was like, it, though. It was pretty much Fenris grumpily saying "er, whatever I say will be insufficient. Sorry." I just mean something more personal should have been added it would have made the gravity of the situation reflect a whole lot better than Hawke just leaving the house and going back to her adventures. But that's just my opinion.

I think it's safe to say that many players felt that All That Remains could have been done differently in some way.

I wonder though if having each companion give their condolences in a side quest style would have been well received. I think that type of dialogue would have been nice, but setting it up as something that has to be completed, and something that would qualify for rivalry or friendship points - that might have made for some sluggishness in the narrative, or it would have lost some of the organic-ness that should be part of the sentiment. Maybe the idea was tossed around in development, but discarded because it didn't test well? 

Nonetheless, it made sense for the one definitive inclusion (aside from the LI) to be Aveline, since she was with Hawke from the beginning. That was a nice touch, I thought. 

[SDxBrandimus]

Rifneno wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

The paraphrase says "I take responsibility:" What Hawke says is: "MERRIL TOTALLY DID IT, GUYS!"
I'm no lover of paraphrases in general, but that case was particularly jarring.

Nothing beats Mordin's loyalty quest in ME2.

Shepard: (paragon selected)  You're a genocidal mass-murderer, Mordin.  How do you sleep at night?

*mutter*  *reload*

Shepard (renegade selected):  You should be tortured to death, Mordin.  You're worse than every batarian slaver ever, combined and multipled by Hitler.

FFS!  *reload*

Shepard (selects "Anyone want some coffee?" option):  Anyone want some coffee?  Mordin will make it out of the trillions of krogan toddlers he murdered.

/facepalm

LOL that was classic xD 

However I agree... The Anders comment was uneccessary and I played three playthroughs and knowing what happens each time hurts especially knowing that no matter what you do you're not going to make it in time :'(

Sucks if you didn't do any of the stuff right and makes Hawke the last of his family(other than Uncle Gamlen of course...) in Kirkwall. Very sad and depressing quest... 

[Macropodmum]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Tidra wrote...

That was like, it, though. It was pretty much Fenris grumpily saying "er, whatever I say will be insufficient. Sorry." I just mean something more personal should have been added it would have made the gravity of the situation reflect a whole lot better than Hawke just leaving the house and going back to her adventures. But that's just my opinion.

I think it's safe to say that many players felt that All That Remains could have been done differently in some way.

I wonder though if having each companion give their condolences in a side quest style would have been well received. I think that type of dialogue would have been nice, but setting it up as something that has to be completed, and something that would qualify for rivalry or friendship points - that might have made for some sluggishness in the narrative, or it would have lost some of the organic-ness that should be part of the sentiment. Maybe the idea was tossed around in development, but discarded because it didn't test well? 

Nonetheless, it made sense for the one definitive inclusion (aside from the LI) to be Aveline, since she was with Hawke from the beginning. That was a nice touch, I thought. 

I think this could have been addressed with a memorial cutscene for Leandra (aka the ending in origins when you got to talk to all your companions in the hall before going to greet the people), I think that this may also have lent itself to summoning up some of the sad feelings that her death was probably meant to evoke but didn't due to the lack of interaction.

Modifié par Macropodmum, 25 juillet 2011 - 02:09 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Macropodmum wrote...

I think this could have been addressed with a memorial cutscene for Leandra (aka the ending in origins when you got to talk to all your companions in the hall before going to greet the people), I think that this may also have lent itself to summoning up some of the sad feelings that her death was probably meant to evoke but didn't due to the lack of interaction.

That would have been a wonderful addition actually.

Although, would there be the equivalent for Bethany/Carver or for Wesley? You have two characters killed during the escape from Lothering with hardly a tear shed - only a blessing uttered and then everyone walks away. There's no attention to the body - no grave dug, no cloth draped over. Granted, the party is on the run, but perhaps the existing mage (Hawke or Bethany) could have cast Funeral Pyre - something to consecrate and committ the dead. You also have the potential for a sibling to die in the Deep Roads. Would that allow for a similar memorial scene? 

I just don't know if doing such a scene for one family member and not the others would sit well with some players. There would still be outcries of unfairness or lack of emotion. And even if you did the scene for all major characters who die in the game, some would find fault with the grief or emotion being too heavy handed, or too much time wasted for those scenes and not applied to others.

This is just me wondering on the implications. By no means do I disagree with your idea. I just don't know how Bioware would have pulled it off (and potentially made a lot of people content with the execution).

[Macropodmum]

Yes good points and I did ponder on those, at least when Carver died on the escape from Lothering, Wesley said some words to commit him to the maker. I guess when Wesley died Flemeth was present (and according to the Dalish she was never one for being kept waiting) so there was probably urgency from her due to the fact she was escorting them to safety. If Bethany actually died in the deep roads then maybe something might have been appropriate like they did in Return to Ostagar with Cailans corpse.

And true, they will never satisfy everyone all of the time but if they were trying to make Leandra's death an emotional moment then they pretty much failed (for me at least) and a funeral / memorial for Leandra may have been a nice touch and remedy.

[Blessed Silence]

You know ... I think I was one of very few which was moved by this quest (I lost my mother only a year or so before the game came out) so it really hit home.

But I do agree on the points about the comments and the lack of ... giving a rats arse what hapened. Even Gamlen got all pissy at my Hawke for not doing something. WTF uncle, my Hawke isn't omnipotent!

*sigh* And I did find that topic on why the devs made it so that you couldn't save your mother. But as many said before .. you never got a true attachment through the game to really care. I hope things like this don't happen again.

[miskatonica]

I think the release of Legacy goes some way to addressing "not having a true attachment" to Leandra. Interesting lore and information gathered aside, I felt that Legacy filled in a lot of the 'blanks' where the Hawkes were concerned (sibling interaction, the epilogue, etc) and playing it before All That Remains (or after it) certainly adds a bit of oomph, at least as far as emotional resonance goes.

[whykikyouwhy]

@miskatonica - I agree wholeheartedly. I found some of the conversations between Hawke and Bethany in Legacy quite touching. And the final scene of the DLC (I played with a completed game save)...well, that was poignant.

I think some will feel that the family matters would have been better made within the core game itself, that the familial ties were not well established and therefore even the DLC could not mend that rift in emotional connection. And those are valid opinions. But I do think that Legacy did much to repair that. It was probably the intention all along - regardless, it executed that piece of Hawke's story well, imo.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 28 juillet 2011 - 09:28 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

miskatonica wrote...

I think the release of Legacy goes some way to addressing "not having a true attachment" to Leandra. Interesting lore and information gathered aside, I felt that Legacy filled in a lot of the 'blanks' where the Hawkes were concerned (sibling interaction, the epilogue, etc) and playing it before All That Remains (or after it) certainly adds a bit of oomph, at least as far as emotional resonance goes.

I can see what you mean but I think it has just as much oomph post All That Remains with Hawke getting the 'echo' of Leandra. I suppose some people might get pissy about though claiming their Hawke wouldn't have thought of Leandra at the time due to some reason or other. I thought it was very well done though.

As for the issue Maria mentions in the OP, I guess they could've had it so party banter was disabled during the quest with only 'quest related' dialogue being played out but as others have said it could easily just be a case of Varric and Isabela trying to keep upbeat and hoping for the best and as someone else also mentioned taking Varric along when you have Gascard with you is worth it for the final scene

[miskatonica]

@Sir Ulrich: Oh, I actually prefer the post-All That Remains playthrough myself! I just figured since the discussion was on how there wasn't much to connect you to the family *before* ATR, it was worth mentioning Legacy as an attempt to fix that (since it can be played at any point).

I think it's quite bittersweet with Hawke having to imagine his mother's words rather than having her actually be there. Each of the dialogue options at the end... it's nice to think Hawke's his dad's son. Though that just makes me wonder about Malcolm even more.