309 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

An apology is not a requirement, value for money is, unfortunately they failed in the latter, in my opinion of course.

[CRISIS1717]

NvVanity wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

It's like Bioware has slapped all their hardcore fans in the face, they owe us an apology otherwise even more gamers will leave the forums and stop buying Bioware games.

Why do i get the feeling that even if they did, you wouldn't be satisfied?

I would be totally satisfied it would mean they acknowledge the direction they took was a mistake and they would do their best to make sure it never happens again. 

You seem to be forgetting that not everyone doesn't like Dragon Age 2.

People on the internet complaining do not account for everyone who purchased the game.

Biwoare tried to go for mass market appeal with their game of course some people will like it but they won't be the players that stick around and support the series of games. 

[c3701]

DA2 is the reason I'll be hesitant to buy DA3. No big deal. If they put out a good game I'll end up getting it. I'll read reviews/forums to figure out if I'll like it instead of pre-ordering. No apology required or wanted.

[Ensgnblack]

I will buy DA3.

[kinna]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

It's like Bioware has slapped all their hardcore fans in the face, they owe us an apology otherwise even more gamers will leave the forums and stop buying Bioware games.

I consider myself as one of those "hardcore" fans of Bioware as I have played every Bioware game from BG onwards. Still, my face feels fine, not slapped.

[Statulos]

I have not ejoyed DA 2 as much as I did with DA: O, part because of the bugs, part because of the issues the game itself has (recycling, static feeling...); most of them can be sumarized with rushed.

However, I think Bioware did many thing right, like trying a new narrative form, tried to improve combat (I´d liked a less flashy aesthetic, though), reduced amount of crunchies and so on.

I don´t want an apology nor them telling me that they missed it; i want them to take note from the criticism and adress it for future games; which I think they´re already doing.

[Celuwen]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare listens and reacts to the fans to give players what they want too easily at times. The very things that I have seen included in DA II are some of the very same things fans have been clamoring for at various times.

I thought this too. I saw a lot of stuff while playing DA2 that I recognised as fan wants from reading these forums. From the voicing of the player character, through to the armour model designs and the freedom of the LI. Less clunky combat was wanted, prettier graphics. It felt like they'd designed it around everything the fans had issues with in DA:Os. They even took the dog out as a companion, but left you able to keep him around.

Perhaps the only two changes I could see that were actively disregarding fan wishes, was removing the isometric view from the PC version and being only able to play as a human. 

[CRISIS1717]

Celuwen wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare listens and reacts to the fans to give players what they want too easily at times. The very things that I have seen included in DA II are some of the very same things fans have been clamoring for at various times.

I thought this too. I saw a lot of stuff while playing DA2 that I recognised as fan wants from reading these forums. From the voicing of the player character, through to the armour model designs and the freedom of the LI. Less clunky combat was wanted, prettier graphics. It felt like they'd designed it around everything the fans had issues with in DA:Os. They even took the dog out as a companion, but left you able to keep him around.

Perhaps the only two changes I could see that were actively disregarding fan wishes, was removing the isometric view from the PC version and being only able to play as a human. 

They didn't listen to the community, the things you pointed out were a result of the restrictions and mass appeal style of design that they used to draw non-rpg players to the franchise. 

[Selene Moonsong]

Exactly, Celuwen, and similarly asked for in NWN and the two expansions for that game as well.

Is the game perfect? No, not in my eyes, but I do find the game enjoyable and worth playing multiple times.

[Celuwen]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Celuwen wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare listens and reacts to the fans to give players what they want too easily at times. The very things that I have seen included in DA II are some of the very same things fans have been clamoring for at various times.

I thought this too. I saw a lot of stuff while playing DA2 that I recognised as fan wants from reading these forums. From the voicing of the player character, through to the armour model designs and the freedom of the LI. Less clunky combat was wanted, prettier graphics. It felt like they'd designed it around everything the fans had issues with in DA:Os. They even took the dog out as a companion, but left you able to keep him around.

Perhaps the only two changes I could see that were actively disregarding fan wishes, was removing the isometric view from the PC version and being only able to play as a human. 

They didn't listen to the community, the things you pointed out were a result of the restrictions and mass appeal style of design that they used to draw non-rpg players to the franchise. 

Except they did listen to the community, because everything I mentioned were raised on this forums time and time again. 

[Schurge]

I would appreciate being told they think my complaints and other's about the game are valid (Laidlaw's interview basically dismissed all my complaints, and I don't have as many as the other people who, like me, wanted it to be more like Origins). As I think most of the complaints I've seen are.

As for an apology? Probably not, Laidlaw made it clear DAII is what they intended, or at least he intended, for it to be. He clearly didn't like Origins, or the sub-genre Origins fit in at all. Besides, I am not sure that they really owe us an apology, we willingly bought it.

Modifié par Schurge, 26 mars 2011 - 11:00 .

[Everwarden]

C9316 wrote...

And the entitlement appears once again.Bioware/EA doesn't have to do anything.

And customers don't have to buy any more EA/Bioware games. 

[Celuwen]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Exactly, Celuwen, and similarly asked for in NWN and the two expansions for that game as well.

Is the game perfect? No, not in my eyes, but I do find the game enjoyable and worth playing multiple times.

Indeed. I prefer DA:O; it's a better game for my tastes, but I've enjoyed playing DA2 as well. I'm on my second play-through. 

[Otterwarden]

Celuwen wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare listens and reacts to the fans to give players what they want too easily at times. The very things that I have seen included in DA II are some of the very same things fans have been clamoring for at various times.

I thought this too. I saw a lot of stuff while playing DA2 that I recognised as fan wants from reading these forums. From the voicing of the player character, through to the armour model designs and the freedom of the LI. Less clunky combat was wanted, prettier graphics. It felt like they'd designed it around everything the fans had issues with in DA:Os. They even took the dog out as a companion, but left you able to keep him around.

Perhaps the only two changes I could see that were actively disregarding fan wishes, was removing the isometric view from the PC version and being only able to play as a human. 

That idea that they catered to what the fans wanted kind of flys in the face of what is stated here:

"We certainly knew there would be some friction between what Origins players have come to expect and what Dragon Age II delivers."

www.gamespot.com/features/6305575/p-1.html

There has been too many footprints left that shows that they were designing this for another crowd.

Modifié par Otterwarden, 26 mars 2011 - 11:09 .

[sestrensaz]

They shouldn't apologise for taking the series in a new direction; like others have pointed out, it's not like they didn't give everyone warning the game was going to be different - there was even a demo and so if you bought it after playing that and are still clamouring for an apology then really, you have no one else to blame.

Remember that creatively the game belongs to them and not the fans in the slightest. If they wanted to make Orlais, Tevinter, Ferelden etc into a giant theme parks and subtitle DA3 as Thedas Tycoon then they are perfectly within their rights to do so... no apology needed.

However, they really should apologise for the game breaking bugs on release. That is just too much... bugs I can handle, odd glitches, the occasional framerate dip even a freeze or two... annoying yes, but not game breaking. DA2 has way too many bugs that make the game impossible to finish or completely unplayable.

For that, they certainly should acknowledge the anger and irritation of their paying fans and apologise for 1. releasing the game in this state in the first place and 2. not being quicker to fix them.

2 weeks and still waiting...

Modifié par sestrensaz, 26 mars 2011 - 11:12 .

[Sith Grey Warden]

A formal apology? Unnecessary and a bad business move.

However, I will say that I won't be buying DA 3 until a bit after it's been released and I see that they actually fixed all the things wrong with DA 2.

And I fail to see how anyone could actually LIKE the reused maps, huge number of unnamed items to siphon through, limited choice (C'mon, it's an RPG!), misleading dialogue options, and lack of ending.

[CRISIS1717]

Celuwen wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Celuwen wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare listens and reacts to the fans to give players what they want too easily at times. The very things that I have seen included in DA II are some of the very same things fans have been clamoring for at various times.

I thought this too. I saw a lot of stuff while playing DA2 that I recognised as fan wants from reading these forums. From the voicing of the player character, through to the armour model designs and the freedom of the LI. Less clunky combat was wanted, prettier graphics. It felt like they'd designed it around everything the fans had issues with in DA:Os. They even took the dog out as a companion, but left you able to keep him around.

Perhaps the only two changes I could see that were actively disregarding fan wishes, was removing the isometric view from the PC version and being only able to play as a human. 

They didn't listen to the community, the things you pointed out were a result of the restrictions and mass appeal style of design that they used to draw non-rpg players to the franchise. 

Except they did listen to the community, because everything I mentioned were raised on this forums time and time again. 

I'll only explain the voice and the armour designs points as I believe the other points you mentioned are incorrect. 

The voicing of the Hawke character was done because they wanted a "tighter narrative" which basically means a less branching dialogue its so they could cut back on voice acting for other characters as they could keep some reactions and restrict choice. 

The armour designs are flashy suits to grab the attention of non-rpg gamers. They resemble Power Ranger costumes more than any suit of armour I have seen which is fitting because it suits the Power Rangers style combat. 

The game was not only dumbed down, the player has less choice and the game looks like something from 2005. This game is awful imo. 

[Persona]

You know EA owns Bioware. So dont think DA3 is going to be any diffrent, they will cut corners again. Have the same maps over and over. Enemies fly into the battle like spider man. And ever single sword/staff/dagger/bow will look alike again. The only thing they will add is new skills again and another weak story.

[Celuwen]

Otterwarden wrote...

Celuwen wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare listens and reacts to the fans to give players what they want too easily at times. The very things that I have seen included in DA II are some of the very same things fans have been clamoring for at various times.

I thought this too. I saw a lot of stuff while playing DA2 that I recognised as fan wants from reading these forums. From the voicing of the player character, through to the armour model designs and the freedom of the LI. Less clunky combat was wanted, prettier graphics. It felt like they'd designed it around everything the fans had issues with in DA:Os. They even took the dog out as a companion, but left you able to keep him around.

Perhaps the only two changes I could see that were actively disregarding fan wishes, was removing the isometric view from the PC version and being only able to play as a human. 

That idea that they catered to what the fans wanted kind of flys in the face of what is stated here:
"We certainly knew there would be some friction between what Origins
players have come to expect and what Dragon Age II delivers."www.gamespot.com/features/6305575/p-1.html

I actually don't think they did cater for certain market of fans of DA:Os, they have obviously changed the game to be more like ME2 and have more mass appeal. I admit this freely. What I was disagreeing with was that they ignored this community entirely, because I very much think they listened to what people said. I'm trying not to go into too many details here as this is a non-spoiler part of the forums, but the things I mentioned above were some of the topics that were brought up for what people wanted to see in the next DA game. 

Unfortunely, they seemed to forget the things people actively liked in DA:O as well. 

[Loerwyn]

Everwarden wrote...
And customers don't have to buy any more EA/Bioware games. 

Oh, have you not heard? 75% of people who buy BioWare games get this strange condition where buy BioWare games no matter how bad, horrific, buggy or ugly they are.

[StockySix]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Celuwen wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Celuwen wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare listens and reacts to the fans to give players what they want too easily at times. The very things that I have seen included in DA II are some of the very same things fans have been clamoring for at various times.

I thought this too. I saw a lot of stuff while playing DA2 that I recognised as fan wants from reading these forums. From the voicing of the player character, through to the armour model designs and the freedom of the LI. Less clunky combat was wanted, prettier graphics. It felt like they'd designed it around everything the fans had issues with in DA:Os. They even took the dog out as a companion, but left you able to keep him around.

Perhaps the only two changes I could see that were actively disregarding fan wishes, was removing the isometric view from the PC version and being only able to play as a human. 

They didn't listen to the community, the things you pointed out were a result of the restrictions and mass appeal style of design that they used to draw non-rpg players to the franchise. 

Except they did listen to the community, because everything I mentioned were raised on this forums time and time again. 

I'll only explain the voice and the armour designs points as I believe the other points you mentioned are incorrect. 

The voicing of the Hawke character was done because they wanted a "tighter narrative" which basically means a less branching dialogue its so they could cut back on voice acting for other characters as they could keep some reactions and restrict choice. 

The armour designs are flashy suits to grab the attention of non-rpg gamers. They resemble Power Ranger costumes more than any suit of armour I have seen which is fitting because it suits the Power Rangers style combat. 

The game was not only dumbed down, the player has less choice and the game looks like something from 2005. This game is awful imo. 

I feel the same.

[dirftglass]

I liked DA 2 a bit more than DA 1.

Sure there are some things I think they should go back on in the formula, but some of us lied DA 2.

[Otterwarden]

Celuwen wrote...

I actually don't think they did cater for certain market of fans of DA:Os, they have obviously changed the game to be more like ME2 and have more mass appeal. I admit this freely. What I was disagreeing with was that they ignored this community entirely, because I very much think they listened to what people said. I'm trying not to go into too many details here as this is a non-spoiler part of the forums, but the things I mentioned above were some of the topics that were brought up for what people wanted to see in the next DA game. 

Unfortunely, they seemed to forget the things people actively liked in DA:O as well. 

Ok, I would have to agree that they did accomodate many of the asthetic preferences.  Gameplay and the console development strategy though seemed to be on its own track long before the feedback came in.

[patcheeboy]

i dont want a dumb apology, i want a game that lives up to its predeccesor

[Celuwen]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Celuwen wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Celuwen wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare listens and reacts to the fans to give players what they want too easily at times. The very things that I have seen included in DA II are some of the very same things fans have been clamoring for at various times.

I thought this too. I saw a lot of stuff while playing DA2 that I recognised as fan wants from reading these forums. From the voicing of the player character, through to the armour model designs and the freedom of the LI. Less clunky combat was wanted, prettier graphics. It felt like they'd designed it around everything the fans had issues with in DA:Os. They even took the dog out as a companion, but left you able to keep him around.

Perhaps the only two changes I could see that were actively disregarding fan wishes, was removing the isometric view from the PC version and being only able to play as a human. 

They didn't listen to the community, the things you pointed out were a result of the restrictions and mass appeal style of design that they used to draw non-rpg players to the franchise. 

Except they did listen to the community, because everything I mentioned were raised on this forums time and time again. 

I'll only explain the voice and the armour designs points as I believe the other points you mentioned are incorrect. 

The voicing of the Hawke character was done because they wanted a "tighter narrative" which basically means a less branching dialogue its so they could cut back on voice acting for other characters as they could keep some reactions and restrict choice. 

The armour designs are flashy suits to grab the attention of non-rpg gamers. They resemble Power Ranger costumes more than any suit of armour I have seen which is fitting because it suits the Power Rangers style combat. 

The game was not only dumbed down, the player has less choice and the game looks like something from 2005. This game is awful imo. 

You might be right about the reasons for the voicing of Hawke, I don't have any idea why the devs chose to do what they did, I can only talk about what I've read here. It is something that was discussed in the forums too. People were divided about it (I personally didn't want it), but overall it was something desired by many. Especially as it worked so well in the ME world. 

I very much remember the armour graphics being a big issue here. It was often said that the amour models were all the same and bland/boring. The flashier amours might not have been what people actually wanted, but it is a response to the dullness that was mentioned about DA:O.

I don't believe this game is awful. It's not a classic, nor is it of the same quality of DA:O, but I do think that Bioware have implimented things that fans have asked for here.