387 réponses à ce sujet

[aftohsix]

I heard that if a gay video game character makes a pass at you it makes you gay IRL. Oh wait.... I think that's something I read somewhere on here.

In truth if you're a truly confidant heterosexual man it shouldn't bother you if your flirted with by a gay person or not. In fact I'd find it flattering. Being exposed to gay ideas or gay culture isn't going to somehow change your sexuality. That's not how it works.

[Rhys1984]

The Metalion wrote...

They should include anal lube in some of the treasure chests. Like potions.

heterosexuals have more butt sex than homosexuals. true story.

[The Metalion]

I know. I would use them on Isabella.

[Sen4lifE]

Birdhive wrote...
As a straight woman, I would like to point out that straight males are flaunting their straight sexuality up and down 24/7, that they (not all, of course) catcall and harass and flirt brazenly, rudely, crassly, and that straight women, lesbians and gay men, transgender and transsexual people all have to hear about their sexual interests, obsessions, conquests, preference and privilege in every stinking media outlet and public space.  So what is this "I am not marching down to homosexual bars/meeting places and insisting on them listening to me"?  You don't have to because it occurs everywhere else!  All the time!  Like here, for example, right now.  Who is offending whom, chump?

Okay, I won't deny it.

[ostemanden]

I love it how my quote is taken entirely out of context, and people are flaming me about a quote taken out of context.
I never said even once that I had a problem with the homosexuality in the game, on the contrary I think it is a good idea, personally I just don't like the way it was implemented.
I have a problem with any person discussing his own personal sexual preference/orientation, on a forum made for discussing GAMES.
I love it how every homosexual, just have to cry out his oppression, and that everyone that disagree with a homosexual is a homophobic, and should have his head examined by professionals.
I guess people read what they want to read. I would just like this forum to be free of any sexual discussion, not directly related to the GAME. Just as I would like that if people wanted to discuss another game, lets say; World of Warcraft, that they would keep to their respective forum.
If I want to read about World of Warcraft, I go to a specific forum, same with sexuality and sexual experience, I would go an appropriate forum.

[Chaos_1001]

ostemanden wrote...

I love it how my quote is taken entirely out of context, and people are flaming me about a quote taken out of context.
I never said even once that I had a problem with the homosexuality in the game, on the contrary I think it is a good idea, personally I just don't like the way it was implemented.
I have a problem with any person discussing his own personal sexual preference/orientation, on a forum made for discussing GAMES.
I love it how every homosexual, just have to cry out his oppression, and that everyone that disagree with a homosexual is a homophobic, and should have his head examined by professionals.
I guess people read what they want to read. I would just like this forum to be free of any sexual discussion, not directly related to the GAME. Just as I would like that if people wanted to discuss another game, lets say; World of Warcraft, that they would keep to their respective forum.
If I want to read about World of Warcraft, I go to a specific forum, same with sexuality and sexual experience, I would go an appropriate forum.

A agree with you on this point :

Real life discussions , religion and or politics has absolutly no revelance whatsoever in these forums at all.

[Zandilar]

ostemanden wrote...
I love it how my quote is taken entirely out of context, and people are flaming me about a quote taken out of context.
I never said even once that I had a problem with the homosexuality in the game, on the contrary I think it is a good idea, personally I just don't like the way it was implemented.
I have a problem with any person discussing his own personal sexual preference/orientation, on a forum made for discussing GAMES.

So you include Heterosexuals in this as well? No mentions of boyfriends/girlfriends/spouses/children/mothers/fathers etc on the forums? If so, maybe you have a fair point.

A common argument made by some people is they just don't want to have homosexuality shoved in their faces. I seem to recall you may well have skirted that line in your comments (not in the mood to go back and read your previous posts to check, though, so if not my apologies!). The problem with that argument is, they never seem to take into account how pervasive heterosexuality is in our lives. What if I don't want to have heteronormative ideas thrown at me every single day? Tough, deal with it, move on - basically that's all anyone can do.

Any way you look at it, you can't escape people talking about (writing about) their sexuality. A female poster writes: "Oh, my boyfriend really liked X bit of the game, and did Y and Z when he came up to specific situation A, I did J and K though, and it was really interesting to see the differences." <= sitting right in that line is the elephant in the room. The fact that Dragon Age 2 has romances in it, means that sexuality is almost impossible to avoid, because people will just talk about the Love Interests. Sometimes a mention of the posters sexuality is necessary to the conversation, to give other posters an idea of where they're coming from.

I love it how every homosexual, just have to cry out his oppression, and
that everyone that disagree with a homosexual is a homophobic, and
should have his head examined by professionals.

People are welcome to diagree with anyone they like (I'm a lesbian! *shock* Oh noes, I mentioned my sexuality in the context of a discussion about something else in order to give you an idea of where I'm coming from! Whatever will you do?!) They're more than welcome to disagree with me. Life would be so boring if everyone agreed on everything. Where I draw the line, however, is when they resort to abuse, verbal or physical. I do call people out on ignorant ideas, though, and if I call them a homophobe because their ideas/attitudes/beliefs are homophobic, why is there a problem?

(And don't bring the old saw "homophobia means fear of homosexuals" into it, please, because that is wrong... Homophobia, despite the root words used, means the equivelent of "homosexist" (or something like it anyway - it means "biased against homosexuality", essentially). )

(Please note that the word Homosexual itself is a term that was coined not
all that long ago (the late 1800s if I remember correctly), and has a greek root word (****** - meaning SAME (not
the latin root word meaning man)) and a latin root word (sexualis - and I think you and everyone else will cotton on to the meaning of that! ). Yes, that means any uses of the word homosexual in the bible were introduced after that point!)

(I also draw the line at the so called idea of "disagreeing with homosexuality" - you don't disagree, you disapprove. Disagree means something else entirely, and you can't disagree with a person's sexuality - I mean, what, are you saying "I disagree, you're not a lesbian, you're straight!"? If so, then disagree might be the correct word... and the opinion wrong.)

I guess people read
what they want to read. I would just like this forum to be free of any
sexual discussion, not directly related to the GAME. Just as I would
like that if people wanted to discuss another game, lets say; World of
Warcraft, that they would keep to their respective forum.
If I want
to read about World of Warcraft, I go to a specific forum, same with
sexuality and sexual experience, I would go an appropriate forum.

Oooh, you can't get away from World of Warcraft discussions on the forums of other MMOs (and also between players in the games themselves!), it's futile to try. The reason is because WoW is the benchmark by which every other MMORPG out there is measured. And this means the same will occur when Bioware finally release Star Wars: The Old Republic.

I think you're trying to herd cats here.

[ostemanden]

@Zandilar

Yes I include every sexuality.
Unfortunately I was apparently to specific and bitter in my argumentation. And a lot of "noise" was uneedly put into my post. I took a general frustration I had, and vented it here.
I try to avoid homosexuals, and other sexual deviants. Simply because I have had enough of the "hey, look at me, I am homosexual" that we see today. I understand why it was needed, but I think you are doing yourself a "bears favor" today, insisting on informing people, and demanding that they take a public stance, to what is supposed to be your private life.
Therefore I am very exclusive as to what forums I visit, I chose to stay away from places where sexuality, religion and politics are disccused, simply because it is a waste of my own private energy. It is therefore a frustration when I do make a choise, about what I want to read about, and is then forced to read about other peoples sexuality on a forum for games. I do not mind the general discusssion, about whether or not homosexuality and bisexuality should be included in the game, I do feel that is totally relevant, and in context of this forum.
What I do not understand is why, everytime homosexuality is discussed, "you" homosexuals always have to tell us your life story, aswell as your political view.
There is also a tendency to make personal attacks against anyone who have a viewpoint that does not correlate with your own. (I am making a generalisation here, this is not aimed at you, I find you very formal and polite, and you obviously adhere to general mannars and decorum.)

I am not a fanatic, and people are ofcourse welcome to write about what their spouse or partner thinks about the game. It is the personal and political propaganda that I tire of. I will also admit to being tired of all this, and that I over reacted, and "vented some steam" in the wrong direction. The Original Poster was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As an outsider I can see a reference to the Zionist problem, where anyone disagreeing with the political view of Zionism is labeled and Anti-Semite. Just as I was labeled with different mental disorders, advised to seek professional help, and being a homophobic.

I had no intention of herding cats, what ever that means, I used World of Warcraft as an example, no pun was intended.

Thank you for creating a constructive room for debate. You lead by example.

[Grestorn]

ostemanden wrote...

Considering that homosexuality is a deviance, something not normal. I find it offensive that I have to be confronted by it all the time. I am not marching down to homosexual bars/meeting places and insisting on them listening to me, yet I feel forced to listen to all your homosexual crap, that you are constantly spewing.
Am I offended by the choice in game to have a homosexual relationship?
Absolutely not!

I am offended by the real life homosexuals flaunting their sexuality all over the place, now even gaming forums.

GTFO please.

I just wanted to bring up ostemanden posting again, just to give a perspective, now that he wants us to believe he's no homophobic and that he was flamed without any cause.

He didn't complain about the discussion about sex issues in general, only about homosexuality, because it's not normal and therefor offensive to him.

Modifié par Grestorn, 29 mars 2011 - 12:39 .

[LightningSamus]

You can reject and not get rivalry, just like real life a girl or guy might not be happy you rejected them.

[ostemanden]

Grestorn wrote...

ostemanden wrote...

Considering that homosexuality is a deviance, something not normal. I find it offensive that I have to be confronted by it all the time. I am not marching down to homosexual bars/meeting places and insisting on them listening to me, yet I feel forced to listen to all your homosexual crap, that you are constantly spewing.
Am I offended by the choice in game to have a homosexual relationship?
Absolutely not!

I am offended by the real life homosexuals flaunting their sexuality all over the place, now even gaming forums.

GTFO please.

I just wanted to bring up ostemanden posting again, just to give a perspective, now that he wants us to believe he's no homophobic and that he was flamed without any cause.

He didn't complain about the discussion about sex issues in general, only about homosexuality, because it's not normal and therefor offensive to him.

That was an answer to a post, and is again taken out of context, he denied that homosexuality was a perverse and abnormal behavior. Which I stand by.

[klmg8]

My only complaint is the romances are so "cheap" everyone is bisexual. Everyone is all "in your face" and promiscuous. Even the encounter with Zev, oh lets go off behind some bushes in the sand and "do it" Lets hope for male champions who accept AIDS doesn't exsist in Dragon Age universe.

Romances should be something that just occur after working through a series of events gradual and not so easily accessed. Working through issues with them first then eventually leading into a relationship.Doing it this way would remove the complaints about "gayness" as not everonye would be trying to hump each other every second dialiog box.

As for the op. Remember prop 8 in california? Very liberal state but still voted no to change what marriage is. Homosexual people just aren't as accepted in society as much as you or some others want to beleive. It go as far to assume based on that vote that 50% of people have some kind of problem with it.

I could care less what people do in their bedrooms though. I'm sure all of us do stuff that someone elese would think is "kinky" or "disgusting"

[Grestorn]

ostemanden wrote...

That was an answer to a post, and is again taken out of context, he denied that homosexuality was a perverse and abnormal behavior. Which I stand by.

Well, I find it sad that you'd call around 7% of the population of earth as being perverse and abnormal. Especially since those people don't do any harm to anyone.

BTW, regarding sexual practices, if that's what you're concerned about, there are much much more straight people having "unnormal", some might even say "perverse" sexual practices, including anal intercourse, than gay people.

The funniest thing, though, is that you insist on not being homophobic, yet you stand by your opinion that all gays are perverts.

There's nothing more to add to this.

Modifié par Grestorn, 29 mars 2011 - 01:39 .

[ostemanden]

Grestorn wrote...

ostemanden wrote...

That was an answer to a post, and is again taken out of context, he denied that homosexuality was a perverse and abnormal behavior. Which I stand by.

Well, I find it sad that you'd call around 7% of the population of earth as being perverse and abnormal. Especially since those people don't do any harm to anyone.

BTW, regarding sexual practices, if that's what you're concerned about, there are much much more straight people having "unnormal", some might even say "perverse" sexual practices, including anal intercourse, than gay people.

The funniest thing, though, is that you insist on not being homophobic, yet you stand by your opinion that all gays are perverts.

There's nothing more to add to this.

I think you have a hard time understanding what the words perverse and abnormal means.

[Grestorn]

ostemanden wrote...
I think you have a hard time understanding what the words perverse and abnormal means.

I know as well as you that these terms are usually used to stigmatise, segregate and debase people. They are used by people who need someone to look down on and to feel superior to.

[seebs]

Abnormal has both a statistical and a normative meaning, making it a great word for equivocating; you can use it to get the derogatory connotations then pretend you just meant it statistically.

I find the idea that people should all hide their sexuality laughable. It's not real, and it's never going to happen. The issue isn't that gay people are more pushing their sexuality at you than straight people; it's just that, since straights are "normal" (statistically), you don't notice them doing it. All those posters refering to wife/husband/bf/gf? They're telling you their sexuality, but since they're straight (mostly), you don't notice it.

If you want to see this in action, try this experiment: Join a new community, don't pick a gender identification, and use the word "spouse" while carefully avoiding pronouns. Watch how much people freak out. No, it is not the case that anyone really thinks that sexuality should always be private; what they really think is that gay sexuality should be private, and they simply take the miasma of straight sexuality for granted so much that they don't notice.

And yes, ostemanden, I'm calling you a liar. Not necessarily a conscious liar; you might well believe what you say, but it ain't true, not even of you. That is not how humans work.

(When someone asked about "spouse" once, and apologized in case the question was offensive, I said "oh, no problem, we don't know either". This resulted in hilarity.)

[Azzlee]

Personally, I think it was how it was implemented, just like everything else in DA2.

Homosexuality IS the minority. In DA:O Zevran was that type of guy. It oozed out of his character and I just brushed it off as to who he was. Leliana I didn't even relise she was open to that until playthrough 4 as a femal character, but it made sense. I think I must have missed the part where Anders suddenly became gay. Maybe its becuase he has a bit of Justice inside him

[Leovigild]

ostemanden wrote...

Grestorn wrote...

ostemanden wrote...

Considering that homosexuality is a deviance, something not normal. I find it offensive that I have to be confronted by it all the time. I am not marching down to homosexual bars/meeting places and insisting on them listening to me, yet I feel forced to listen to all your homosexual crap, that you are constantly spewing.
Am I offended by the choice in game to have a homosexual relationship?
Absolutely not!

I am offended by the real life homosexuals flaunting their sexuality all over the place, now even gaming forums.

GTFO please.

I just wanted to bring up ostemanden posting again, just to give a perspective, now that he wants us to believe he's no homophobic and that he was flamed without any cause.

He didn't complain about the discussion about sex issues in general, only about homosexuality, because it's not normal and therefor offensive to him.

That was an answer to a post, and is again taken out of context, he denied that homosexuality was a perverse and abnormal behavior. Which I stand by.

Of course he denied it! Cause it´s BS. Nothing more to say to this. If you find a certain behavior in a stabile percentuage of the Population in every generation (the Science is at start in this Matter, but things seem to be like this) , it IS a natural thing. An i won´t discuss this matter any further. i´m right. And if you don´t agree you are wrong. END of Discussion.

Modifié par Leovigild, 29 mars 2011 - 09:08 .

[Heavensrun]

Something that irritates me every time I see it posted..."I just wish I could reject them without getting rivalry points!"

Let me introduce you to reality. People don't like being rejected by people they're crushing on. Trying to form a relationship with someone is a scary, nerve-wracking process, and rejections aren't ever fun.

It's still easy to drop the relationship with Anders and become best bros for life, despite OMG I GOT RIVALRIES.

Get over it.

[ostemanden]

Leovigild wrote...

ostemanden wrote...

Grestorn wrote...

ostemanden wrote...

Considering that homosexuality is a deviance, something not normal. I find it offensive that I have to be confronted by it all the time. I am not marching down to homosexual bars/meeting places and insisting on them listening to me, yet I feel forced to listen to all your homosexual crap, that you are constantly spewing.
Am I offended by the choice in game to have a homosexual relationship?
Absolutely not!

I am offended by the real life homosexuals flaunting their sexuality all over the place, now even gaming forums.

GTFO please.

I just wanted to bring up ostemanden posting again, just to give a perspective, now that he wants us to believe he's no homophobic and that he was flamed without any cause.

He didn't complain about the discussion about sex issues in general, only about homosexuality, because it's not normal and therefor offensive to him.

That was an answer to a post, and is again taken out of context, he denied that homosexuality was a perverse and abnormal behavior. Which I stand by.

Of course he denied it! Cause it´s BS. Nothing more to say to this. If you find a certain behavior in a stabile percentuage of the Population in every generation (the Science is at start in this Matter, but things seem to be like this) , it IS a natural thing. An i won´t discuss this matter any further. i´m right. And if you don´t agree you are wrong. END of Discussion.

I never said it wasn't natural, to be homosexual, I even postulated, that we are all bisexuals to some extend!
But to say that homosexualism is normal is a lie unless you lived in a time before Monotheism came.
Ancient Greece, Rome, Arabia, Egypt etc. At that time it was perverse and abnormal to be heterosexual.

Abnormal and pervese have a very definitive meaning, and they are just words for something that is outside the norm. Unless you would postulate that the norm today is homosexual relationship, I do not really see we have anything to argue about.

[ostemanden]

seebs wrote...

Abnormal has both a statistical and a normative meaning, making it a great word for equivocating; you can use it to get the derogatory connotations then pretend you just meant it statistically.

I find the idea that people should all hide their sexuality laughable. It's not real, and it's never going to happen. The issue isn't that gay people are more pushing their sexuality at you than straight people; it's just that, since straights are "normal" (statistically), you don't notice them doing it. All those posters refering to wife/husband/bf/gf? They're telling you their sexuality, but since they're straight (mostly), you don't notice it.

If you want to see this in action, try this experiment: Join a new community, don't pick a gender identification, and use the word "spouse" while carefully avoiding pronouns. Watch how much people freak out. No, it is not the case that anyone really thinks that sexuality should always be private; what they really think is that gay sexuality should be private, and they simply take the miasma of straight sexuality for granted so much that they don't notice.

And yes, ostemanden, I'm calling you a liar. Not necessarily a conscious liar; you might well believe what you say, but it ain't true, not even of you. That is not how humans work.

(When someone asked about "spouse" once, and apologized in case the question was offensive, I said "oh, no problem, we don't know either". This resulted in hilarity.)

Never said that you could not mention you spouse. There is a difference though, between saying; Hey I play this game with my GF/BF and we bla. bla. bla" and "IT IS MY RIGHT TO BE GAY; I CAN TALK ABOUT MY SEXUAL PREFERENCE; EXPERIENCE AND ORIENTATION IN A FORUM FOR GAMES; AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT; BECAUSE IF YOU DO; I WILL PULL THE HOMOPHOBIC CARD"

What exactly are you accusing me of lying about? How can I lie if I am not conscious about it? Then I would be talking from a standpoint of ignorance wouldn't I? And unless there is something I do not understand, being ignorant is not the same as lying!

[andysdead]

Haasth wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...

It was just implemented kind of poorly. Dialog which is supposed to nix a romance is supposed to have a broken heart icon. I believe they failed to put that in. Folks didnt choose 'hostile' option when first approached by him and after that your sol unless you pick a rude option.

At least that's from what I gather. I play a female hawke, and just agree that he is unsuitable when he starts whining.

The problem for me was more the fact that I never picked anything flirtatious. I just picked supportive options, because you know.. just trying to be a decent human being? Fellow Mage with problems and all. 
But it seems regular supportive options just make him jump to 'I want you' within 3 seconds. (No seriously, second conversation with Anders or so) And, although I found humorous, I did find it a little sad.. odd mostly. Because in Awakening he did not strike me as someone that would even be remotely interested in a homosexual relationship.

If I had a dime for every time this has happened to me in real life, I'd have a lot of dimes.

[Heavensrun]

andysdead wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...

It was just implemented kind of poorly. Dialog which is supposed to nix a romance is supposed to have a broken heart icon. I believe they failed to put that in. Folks didnt choose 'hostile' option when first approached by him and after that your sol unless you pick a rude option.

At least that's from what I gather. I play a female hawke, and just agree that he is unsuitable when he starts whining.

The problem for me was more the fact that I never picked anything flirtatious. I just picked supportive options, because you know.. just trying to be a decent human being? Fellow Mage with problems and all. 
But it seems regular supportive options just make him jump to 'I want you' within 3 seconds. (No seriously, second conversation with Anders or so) And, although I found humorous, I did find it a little sad.. odd mostly. Because in Awakening he did not strike me as someone that would even be remotely interested in a homosexual relationship.

If I had a dime for every time this has happened to me in real life, I'd have a lot of dimes.

Yeah.  Since when do you have to flirt with someone for them to be interested in you?  Especially when you're a super mega awesome Champion of Kirkwall who is constantly supportive of his oppressed minority?

[Medhia Nox]

Just checking in - are gays still taking over?

[Soul Cool]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Just checking in - are gays still taking over?

Uh.

All hail our new gay alien lizard overlords! *bows down*